The Obama Presidency - 2008 & 2012

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

(and given the chance I'd be an enlightened despot in a nanosecond).

You call it "enlightened despot" I call it "maniacal dictator".

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

We disagree on the good/bad of that. On it's best days I consider diversity as an annoyance. I am, after all, an authoritarian (and given the chance I'd be an enlightened despot in a nanosecond).

Oh, we all would take that offer, right?

I'm quite aware that my own family traditions, as Americanized as they are, might be considered quite offensive to other thoroughly assimilated Americans.

If you ask me what I am, I will say "American", because, silly flag-waving aside, I love this country for what it is. When push came to shove and my great grand-parents were on the wrong side of the prevailing ethnicity in their homeland, America opened its doors for them. All four sets of my great-grandparents emigrated here in the 1890s. They didn't speak English. They took relatively menial jobs at first, then found their niches. One of my great grandparents became a tailor, and had the first "hit this sign and win a new suit" billboard at Ebbets Field. Or at least that's family lore (lord google says it's someone named Abe Stark at a much later date). I can't verify our claim. Nor can I sew worth a darn.

But I don't share religious tradition with other Americans, and that's frustrating for some of them. Maybe even rises past "annoyance" in some cases.

We can't ignore what our country has done in just a few hundred years. As far as developing new technology, we're like the Roman Empire these days. How have we done this? I'd say through immigration and true acceptance of diversity we've created an environment where we welcome innovation. Can't do that where the status quo is enforced and new knowledge is forbidden.

Like you, I'm worried that some of these values are being lost today. Higher education is in serious need of true reform, and the cost of not reforming may well already be our leadership in emerging technologies.

[Autumn]

Sometimes my head hurts from going from one thread where Jon is espousing his Christian views, to another one where he advocates gunning down children. I'm all for upholding immigration laws, but I guess I'm not Christian enough to go all the way to defend our great nation.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

You call it "enlightened despot" I call it "maniacal dictator".

Potatoe.

Pototoe.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Oh, we all would take that offer, right?

Honestly, I don't think everybody would. Not if they really actually had to do it anyway. Hard decisions are a lost art, and turning easy decisions into hard ones is a growing trend.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Potatoe.

Pototoe.

Dan Quayle

[Edward64]

I think more of the same. Nothing that surprises me.

Poll: Obama's approval rating hits all-time low | MSNBC

Two words sum up the nation’s mood in the latest NBC News/Wall Street Journal poll – fed up.

Six in 10 Americans are dissatisfied with the state of the U.S. economy; more than 70% of Americans believe the country is headed in the wrong direction; and nearly 80% are down on the country’s political system.
:
That frustration carries over to the nation’s political leaders, with President Barack Obama’s overall approval rating hitting a new low at 40% and with a mere 14% of the public giving Congress a thumbs up.

Yet because this discontent differs – among Democrats, Republicans, and independents – Hart cautions that you’re unlikely to see Americans storming the polls on Election Day in November.

“We’re unhappy, but we aren’t coalescing around an issue,” he said.
:
The discontent’s two main causes

The NBC/WSJ pollsters attribute the wide discontent to the lingering effects of the Great Recession, as well as a loss of faith in the country’s politicians.

Even though the recession ended years ago and even though the U.S. economy has created 200,000-plus jobs over the past six months, a plurality of Americans – 49% – believe the economy is still in a recession. (However, that percentage is the lowest it’s been since the Great Recession began, and 50% of respondents believe the economy is improving.)

What’s more, a combined 71% say the recession personally impacted them “a lot” or “just some,” and 64% say it’s still having an effect on them.

Then there are these numbers in the poll:

•40% say someone in their household lost a job in the past five years;
•27% say they have more than $5,000 in student-loan debt for either themselves or their children;
•20% have more than $2,000 in credit card debt they are unable to pay off month to month;
•and 17% say they have a parent or a child over 21 years old living with them for financial or health reasons.


“People are continuing to tell us what ways [the Great Recession] is still impacting them today,” said GOP pollster Bill McInturff. “Those stories are pretty grim.”
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Bad numbers for Obama, even worse for Congress and Republicans

As for the politicians measured in the NBC/WSJ poll, President Obama’s overall job rating stands at an all-time low of 40%, a one-point drop from June.

That decline comes from slightly lower support from Democrats and African-American respondents.

Forty-two percent approve of the president’s handling of the economy, while only 36% approve of his handling of foreign policy.

And Obama’s favorable/unfavorable rating remains upside down at 40% positive, 47% negative.

But if the president’s numbers are bad, Congress’ are even worse.

Only 14% approve of the job Congress is doing – the seventh-straight NBC/WSJ poll dating back to 2011 when this rating has been below 15%.

In addition, Americans hold congressional Republicans in lower regard (19% favorable, 54% unfavorable) than congressional Democrats (31% favorable, 46% unfavorable).

[DaddyTorgo]

So basically

(1) the "do-nothing" tactic has damaged Obama's approval rating
(2) the democrats have successfully made the case to the public that the "do nothing" approach is a Republican ploy

I'd be willing to bet that the favorables for Obama/congressional Republicans/congressional Democrats correlate strongly along party lines.

Nothing new here. It doesn't really "mean" anything in the grand scheme of things IMO.

[Qwikshot]

I hate Congress, not Obama

[JediKooter]

I hate politicians and the people who keep voting for the same ones over and over again and then are pissed because the politicians keep doing such a shitty job.

[Edward64]

I was wondering why we are getting involved in this but its for the Kurds so I kinda agree

Obama Authorizes 'Targeted' Airstrikes in Iraq - NBC News

President Barack Obama authorized "targeted airstrikes" to protect U.S. interests in Iraq and airdrops of meals and water to refugees trapped on a mountaintop in northwest Iraq.

In a nationally televised address, Obama said Thursday night that he had long warned the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, not to threaten the strategic city of Erbil. With ISIS fighters nearing Erbil on Thursday, Obama said he had approved "targeted strikes against [ISIS] convoys should they approach the city."

"These innocent families are faced with a choice — descend and be slaughtered or stay and slowly die of hunger." Obama said, adding that he had also authorized targeted airstrikes to help break ISIS' siege trapping about 40,000 Christians and members of a religious sect called the Yazidi on Mount Sinjar near Mosul. "We can act responsibly to prevent an act of genocide."

"Today, America is coming to help," Obama said — while also stressing that U.S. troops wouldn't be returning to Iraq.
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The White House said Vice President Joe Biden called Masoud Barzani, the regional president in Iraqi Kurdistan, to reaffirm that Obama was committed to take "whatever actions necessary to protect Americans in Erbil, including targeted airstrikes."

[Edward64]

Okay, so Arbit/Ebril is the capital of Kurdistan and that's a primary reason why we are helping. The story of "we have an unique opportunity to prevent a massacre" didn't smell right to me.

I would have preferred if we could have built a coalition (even if just in name only) but hopefully we will have friends for life in Kurdistan.

Iraq Arms Kurds Against ISIS

WASHINGTON, Aug 8 (Reuters) - The Iraqi government provided a planeload of ammunition to Peshmerga fighters from Iraq's semiautonomous Kurdish region on Friday, a U.S. official said, in an unprecedented act of military cooperation between Kurdish and Iraqi forces brought on by an acute militant threat.

The official said Iraqi security forces flew a C-130 cargo plane loaded with mostly small-arms ammunition to Arbil, the capital of Iraqi Kurdistan, in a move that American officials hope will help the region's Peshmerga fighters keep militants from the Islamic State, an al Qaeda offshoot, at bay.

"This is unprecedented," the official said on condition of anonymity.

"Developments over the last few days have refocused the issue, and we've seen unprecedented cooperation between Baghdad and Arbil in terms of going after (the Islamic State), not only in terms of conversation but in terms of actual support."

In the first airstrikes in Iraq since U.S. forces withdrew in 2011, U.S. warplanes bombed Islamic State fighters several times on Friday, in an increasingly urgent attempt to halt the militants who have seized a wide swathe of territory since they swept into northern Iraq in June. The hard-line fighters now appear set on trying to take the Kurdish capital.

The grave threat to Arbil, seat of the regional government and a hub for foreign firms in Iraq, appears to have at least temporarily eased a long-running feud between leaders of the Kurdistan region, who have long dreamed of an independent state, and the government of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki, a Shi'ite Arab who has sparred with Kurds over land and oil.

As Islamic State fighters made another dramatic advance earlier this week, Maliki ordered his air force for the first time to back Kurdish forces in their fight against militants.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I hate politicians and the people who keep voting for the same ones over and over again and then are pissed because the politicians keep doing such a shitty job.

Don't bother posting that in this thread you will eliminate 99% of the stuff they argue about.

[Dutch]

Some pretty crazy shit happening in Iraq now.

Leader: ISIS is ‘Systematically Beheading Children' in 'Christian Genocide' | CNS News

Iraqi Official: Hundreds Of Yazidi Women Held Captive By Islamic State

U.S. airstrikes in Iraq begin - WMBFNews.com, Myrtle Beach/Florence SC, Weather

ISIS: Obama knows he can't fix Iraq (Opinion) - CNN.com

Islamic militants advance despite 2 rounds of US airstrikes | Fox News

[Edward64]

I think we are committed to long term (Kurdistan at least). ISIS isn't going away soon and think our involvement will inevitably escalate.

Sustained airstrikes, cruise missiles and special ops are my preference. Hard to believe an airstrike here and there will do it. Don't know what anti-air capabilities they have but if they capture a US pilot(s), its not going to be pretty.

Obama should start building coalitions now.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I think we are committed to long term (Kurdistan at least). ISIS isn't going away soon and think our involvement will inevitably escalate.

I'd rather we have stayed the course and helped them out as a long-term friend, but I'm okay with quitting Iraq completely because they have done nothing but be a complete pain in the ass for decades...I'm against limited and worthless airstrikes to remind these terrorists that their real targets are American civilians. The whole reason we ever got involved in Iraq and Afghanistan was to ensure that 911 didn't happen again. Leaving the area to it's own devices and then pin-prick bombing them is just ridiculously stupid. Unless we have a policy in place to remove ISIS from power that is...which we don't.

Anyway, to be sure, it's escalating without our involvement right now.


Civilians Killed by month in Iraq due to hostilities

[Warhammer]

All the strikes will do is piss them off. If we do anything, it must be sustained. Not the lob a couple of bombs and missiles and the leave, which has been our MO too often.

This is exactly what I was afraid of when we pulled out. Not that we had the right plan for nation building either, but we left a power vacuum I the area which others are trying to fill.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

All the strikes will do is piss them off. If we do anything, it must be sustained. Not the lob a couple of bombs and missiles and the leave, which has been our MO too often.

In this instance I see an extremely limited mission intended to slow the advance & provide a little breathing room to those escaping. Almost Dunkirk-esque.

In & of itself I'm not necessarily critical of that.

The mistake, simply put, is in the fallacy that there's any realistic chance for most of the region to have autonomy without becoming problematic sooner rather than later. Either resign ourselves to prolonged & indefinite occupation or utterly & completely destroy it, leaving no stone stacked atop another. Anything else & we're just going to lather/rinse/repeat infinitely.

[Warhammer]

Agreed. That was why I was on board with the original plan to invade. It was a different approach which could have worked had we had an actual plan for what happened once we won.

We should have just given them a constitution like we did to Japan after WWII and imposed martial law until order was established. We have not learned the lesson that when one class ruled over another class for 20 years, you have 20 years of resentment built up, and the new guys in charge try to get their revenge.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Agreed. That was why I was on board with the original plan to invade. It was a different approach which could have worked had we had an actual plan for what happened once we won.

We should have just given them a constitution like we did to Japan after WWII and imposed martial law until order was established. We have not learned the lesson that when one class ruled over another class for 20 years, you have 20 years of resentment built up, and the new guys in charge try to get their revenge.

This.

[lungs]

The Frontline episode a few weeks ago 'Losing Iraq' was excellent.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

All the strikes will do is piss them off. If we do anything, it must be sustained. Not the lob a couple of bombs and missiles and the leave, which has been our MO too often.

This is exactly what I was afraid of when we pulled out. Not that we had the right plan for nation building either, but we left a power vacuum I the area which others are trying to fill.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In this instance I see an extremely limited mission intended to slow the advance & provide a little breathing room to those escaping. Almost Dunkirk-esque.

In & of itself I'm not necessarily critical of that.

The mistake, simply put, is in the fallacy that there's any realistic chance for most of the region to have autonomy without becoming problematic sooner rather than later. Either resign ourselves to prolonged & indefinite occupation or utterly & completely destroy it, leaving no stone stacked atop another. Anything else & we're just going to lather/rinse/repeat infinitely.

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Agreed. That was why I was on board with the original plan to invade. It was a different approach which could have worked had we had an actual plan for what happened once we won.

We should have just given them a constitution like we did to Japan after WWII and imposed martial law until order was established. We have not learned the lesson that when one class ruled over another class for 20 years, you have 20 years of resentment built up, and the new guys in charge try to get their revenge.

Yes, yes, and yes.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Agreed. That was why I was on board with the original plan to invade. It was a different approach which could have worked had we had an actual plan for what happened once we won.

We should have just given them a constitution like we did to Japan after WWII and imposed martial law until order was established. We have not learned the lesson that when one class ruled over another class for 20 years, you have 20 years of resentment built up, and the new guys in charge try to get their revenge.

If we did martial law, it would have been unsustainable. There would have been uprisings that we would have to squash, more friendly and civilian deaths etc. The coalition of the willing would have fragmented. It would have been a rallying cry for extremists etc.

Some countries are not ready for US styled democracies. With that said, I think us "pre-determining" presidential elections (e.g. puppet dictator) may have worked.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Some countries are not ready for US styled democracies. With that said, I think us "pre-determining" presidential elections (e.g. puppet dictator) may have worked.

That is basically what we did. I don't think there's any question that al-Maliki is there because we got him there.

[Warhammer]

Martial law is tolerable, if there is a plan. That is the key. You get people on board with this prior to enforcing it. You lay out the reasons why it is necessary. You don't need the entire coalition's buy in, just that of key players. You explain why you're not going to let one faction get their revenge. You explain why it is important to include all factions I government, etc. etc,

Something that is very concerning to me is the idea that every decision must be popular. Or that you must have 100% buy in to act upon something. Often times, the correct course of action is unpopular. We need more politicians that are not worried about how people will view the, short term and make decisions for the good of the country in the long term. This is part of the same issue that corporate America has currently with the board of directors and stock holders only worried about what the stock price is going to be tomorrow.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Autumn

That is basically what we did. I don't think there's any question that al-Maliki is there because we got him there.

Don't think al-Maliki was our first choice. And if he was, he certainly wasn't our puppet.

[SportsDino]

Martial law is a step in the right direction, to be successful in building an Iraq government there would have to be a lot of unpopular actions that would only look right after years and knowing the disaster of what played out with our weak ass no plan corruption filled war we should never have been in.

Really what we did is we wasted a trillion plus dollars, numerous lives, and we have a situation that is probably more dangerous than if we did nothing at all. It would have been better to take a fraction of the military strength used and place it all in Afghanistan at the very start to make sure the terrorists were thoroughly destroyed. Then go home and spend a ton of money on intelligence and transportation safety (on that front we should have less frisking granny at the airport and more high powered databases and passenger screening from foreign countries to catch all of those people that were still flying despite being on no fly lists).

[Dutch]

Islamic State Killed 500 Yazidis, Buried Some Victims Alive



Thousands Of Iraqi Yazidis Flee To Syria After Kurds Open Safe Passage

Women Stoned To Death In Syria For Adultery

Muslims are crazy sometimes. I mean, bat-shit crazy.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Islamic State Killed 500 Yazidis, Buried Some Victims Alive



Thousands Of Iraqi Yazidis Flee To Syria After Kurds Open Safe Passage

Women Stoned To Death In Syria For Adultery

Muslims are crazy sometimes. I mean, bat-shit crazy.

Ok, I get the first two as they are on a pretty massive scale.

But, the last? There are outliers in every society. I mean, we have a front page talking about how one sports figure might have ran over and killed another, we've certainly had religious zealots in this country kill people, and, heck, there's always Florida Man if you're looking for stupid things individuals do on a daily basis.

I think that's a pretty broad brush to paint with.

SI

[Edward64]

Some good news, hope it keeps up.

I don't have a good handle on how much ISIS is Iraqi Sunni or how much Iraqi Sunni support ISIS but, I doubt there can be reconciliation after this is over.

Kurdish Forces Seize Back Two Towns From Insurgents: Kurdish Official

BAGHDAD (AP) — Reinvigorated by American airstrikes, Kurdish forces retook two towns from Sunni militants Sunday, achieving one of their first victories after weeks of retreating, a senior Kurdish military official said.

Kurdish peshmerga fighters were able to push the militants of the Islamic State group out of the villages of Makhmour and al-Gweir, some 45 kilometers from Irbil, Brig. Gen. Shirko Fatih said.

The United States launched a fourth round of airstrikes Sunday against militant vehicles and mortars firing on Irbil as part of efforts to blunt the militants' advance and protect American personnel near the Kurdish capital.

U.S. warplanes and drones have also attacked militants firing on minority Yazidis around Sinjar, which is in the far west of the country near the Syrian border.

In the Kurdish capital on Sunday, the president of the semi-autonomous Kurdish Regional Government, Massoud Barzani, said American military support has been effective thus far, but, he added, peshmerga soldiers require more firepower to defeat the militants.

"We are not asking our friends to send their sons to fight on our behalf," Barzani told The Associated Press in a brief interview. "What we are asking our friends is to provide us support and to cooperate with us in providing us with heavy weapons that we are able to fight this terrorist group."

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

In this instance I see an extremely limited mission intended to slow the advance & provide a little breathing room to those escaping. Almost Dunkirk-esque.

In & of itself I'm not necessarily critical of that.

The mistake, simply put, is in the fallacy that there's any realistic chance for most of the region to have autonomy without becoming problematic sooner rather than later. Either resign ourselves to prolonged & indefinite occupation or utterly & completely destroy it, leaving no stone stacked atop another. Anything else & we're just going to lather/rinse/repeat infinitely.

Completely agree with this.

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Agreed. That was why I was on board with the original plan to invade. It was a different approach which could have worked had we had an actual plan for what happened once we won.

We should have just given them a constitution like we did to Japan after WWII and imposed martial law until order was established. We have not learned the lesson that when one class ruled over another class for 20 years, you have 20 years of resentment built up, and the new guys in charge try to get their revenge.

Completely disagree with this. Neither Germany nor Japan had 3 sectarian groups internally that had been at war for centuries who would fight each other during the reconstruction. Parallels to post-WWII are simply not helpful.

Your suggestion is wishful thinking at its very best, and that's even with you recognizing that the Bush Admin had absolutely no realistic plan for post-invasion Iraq.

[Warhammer]

Germany was split. Japan was not as you point out. Sure Germany had not been at war internally for centuries, but neither has Iraq. The Ottomans had the area under control for centuries.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Ok, I get the first two as they are on a pretty massive scale.

But, the last? There are outliers in every society. I mean, we have a front page talking about how one sports figure might have ran over and killed another, we've certainly had religious zealots in this country kill people, and, heck, there's always Florida Man if you're looking for stupid things individuals do on a daily basis.

I think that's a pretty broad brush to paint with.

SI

I think you are terribly underestimating their ideals and desires if you think it was a random act of stupidity.

[Edward64]

Not very presidential.

Exclusive: Obama Told Lawmakers Criticism of His Syria Policy is ‘Horsesh*t’ - The Daily Beast

Hillary Clinton and Congressmen alike have called on Obama to arm Syria’s rebels. But the President fumed at lawmakers in a private meeting for suggesting he should’ve done more.

President Obama got angry at lawmakers who suggested in a private meeting that he should have armed the Syrian rebels, calling the criticism “horseshit.”
:
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Just before the Congressional recess, President Obama invited over a dozen Senate and House leaders from both parties to the White House to talk about foreign policy. According to two lawmakers inside the meeting, Obama became visibly agitated when confronted by bipartisan criticism of the White House’s policy of slow-rolling moderate Syrian rebels’ repeated requests for arms to fight the Assad regime and ISIS.

According to one of the lawmakers, Sen. Bob Corker asked the President a long question that included sharp criticisms of President Obama’s handling of a number of foreign policy issues—including Syria, ISIS, Russia, and Ukraine. Obama answered Corker at length. Then, the president defended his administration’s actions on Syria, saying that the notion that many have put forth regarding arming the rebels earlier would have led to better outcomes in Syria was “horseshit.”

White House officials confirmed the charged exchange between Obama and Corker but declined to confirm that Obama used the expletive. The interaction between Obama and Corker was a tense moment in the otherwise uneventful meeting.

[Edward64]

Finally ... don't know what took so long.

Iraqi President nominates new Prime Minister - CNN.com

Irbil, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraqi President Fuad Masum nominated a new Prime Minister on Monday, further complicating the country's intense power struggle amid a dire humanitarian crisis and a militant threat strong enough to draw U.S. air power back to the fray.

In a ceremony attended by key members of the main Shiite bloc in Parliament, Masum nominated Haider al-Abadi to succeed a defiant Nuri al-Maliki, who had earlier vowed to hang on to power.

It wasn't clear what impact the situation would have on the country, which is already torn by a threat from Islamist militants so brutal that they crucify people and brag about it online.

But in a sign that al-Maliki wouldn't go quietly, he later appeared with mostly junior members of his party who announced that they would contest Masum's decision in court.

"I've never seen Iraq so bad -- ever," CNN national security analyst and former CIA operative Bob Baer said Monday, before the latest political developments.
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The new Prime Minister-designate, Abadi, is the deputy speaker of the Iraqi Parliament and a former aide to al-Maliki.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Not very presidential.

Exclusive: Obama Told Lawmakers Criticism of His Syria Policy is ‘Horsesh*t’ - The Daily Beast

LMAO - really?

Give me a break.

a) "It's not confirmed" = it's just a mud-slinging rumor.
b) So what?

Your shtick is so tired.

[nol]

Looks like someone's parents haven't given him the talk yet about how sometimes grown-ups use naughty words, but that doesn't mean you should repeat them in school.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Germany was split. Japan was not as you point out. Sure Germany had not been at war internally for centuries, but neither has Iraq. The Ottomans had the area under control for centuries.

You are seriously equating Iraq to Germany and Japan?

Germany was split? In what way? And note I'm talking about West Germany, as that's the one that was actually reconstructed. Was it split in the way Iraq was , with 3 different sectarian groups who had been fighting each other for centuries? Was Japan split by 3 different sectarian groups who had been fighting each other for centuries?

I'd be very interested in your evidence, as it would constitute a relatively significant re-thinking of 20th century history.

The Ottomans had the area under control for centuries.

Same here. Unless by "under control" you mean "managed an area that continued to have significant local upheaval and also divided the area administratively along sectarian/demograhics lines".

[Edward64]

We are starting to build a coalition which is good. Think the wait was due to uncertainty with Maliki which is now (hopefully) resolved with Iran backing off support for him.

BBC News - Iraq crisis: France to deliver arms to Iraqi Kurds

France will supply arms to Iraq's Kurds "in the coming hours", French President Francois Hollande has announced.

France has received approval from authorities in Baghdad for the decision, French media reports say.

Kurdish forces have been fighting militants from the Islamic State (IS) group. The conflict has displaced thousands of people.

The US has also reportedly begun supplying weapons to the Kurdish forces, known as the Peshmerga.

A statement from Mr Hollande's office said the move was "in response to the urgent need expressed by the regional authorities in Kurdistan".

Earlier the US announced it had sent 130 more military advisers to the Kurdish region.

The marines and special operations forces will assess the humanitarian situation and will not be engaged in combat, a US defence official said.

The US has been carrying out air strikes against IS fighters in northern Iraq.

[flere-imsaho]

The good news is that Iran's helping out, instead of letting it be completely the US's problem. Given, however, that functionally Iraq is now a client Shiite state of Iran, it's hard to imagine how they're going to make peace with the Sunnis, especially since that whole "democracy" thing didn't keep them at the table. Obviously the terrorists of ISIS are at fault here, but the regular Sunnis have a somewhat unpalatable choice between Sunni terrorists and a legitimate Shiite government that can't project power and can't keep the peace.

Best case is an independent Kurdistan (hopefully Turkey keeps moving in a direction to allow this) and Iran becomes more and more involved, honestly.

[Thomkal]

ISIS has killed an American journalist-on video for the world to see:

ISIS beheading U.S. journalist James Foley, posts video - CNN.com

[Edward64]

Wondering why ISIS seem to have this beheading fetish. Lots of discussions on the true interpretation on the below link but I think it basically goes back to historical examples and precedence.

Beheading in the Name of Islam :: Middle East Quarterly

The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.[21] Islamic leaders from Muhammad's time until today have followed his model. Examples of decapitation, of both the living and the dead, in Islamic history are myriad. Yusuf b. Tashfin (d. 1106) led the Al-Murabit (Almoravid) Empire to conquer from western Sahara to central Spain. After the battle of Zallaqa in 1086, he had 24,000 corpses of the defeated Castilians beheaded "and piled them up to make a sort of minaret for the muezzins who, standing on the piles of headless cadavers, sang the praises of Allah."[22] He then had the detached heads sent to all the major cities of North Africa and Spain as an example of Christian impotence. The Al-Murabits were conquered the following century by the Al-Muwahhids (Almohads), under whose rule Castilian Christian enemies were beheaded after any lost battles.

Another data point and to help add context, I found out its not just ISIS

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...317907443.html

Four Saudi men have been beheaded by sword after being convicted of smuggling cannabis into the country, the interior ministry has said.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Wondering why ISIS seem to have this beheading fetish.

I'll go out on a limb now and guess that "random event by an extremist outlier" isn't the answer.

[Groundhog]

Yeah it's not just ISIS, it's still considered a "traditional" method of execution in many Middle Eastern countries, although I think Saudi Arabia is the only government that still carries it out AFAIK. I think that reason, as well as the graphic nature of it, is why the various terrorist groups have chosen it as the preferred method of spreading terror.

Far pre-dates the time Muhammad was supposed to have walked the Earth, and there were probably few quicker or 'better' (for want a better word) ways to dispatch beaten enemies pre-gunpowder.

[SirFozzie]

So, the threats to shutdown the government have begun.

McConnell’s plan to shut down Obama - POLITICO.com Print View

Please, Republicans do so, it worked so well for you last time, and in no way, shape, or form, will harm your chances to actually take the Senate. :P

[flere-imsaho]

In an extensive interview here, the typically reserved McConnell laid out his clearest thinking yet of how he would lead the Senate if Republicans gain control of the chamber.

Yeah, ok then, Mitch "Our Primary Legislative Objective is to make Obama a One Term President" McConnell.

[RainMaker]

I feel like if you made a group like ISIS as the villian for a movie you would be told it was too unrealistic. These "people" are utter scum and I hope are wiped off the face of the planet.

[Edward64]

A Hamas leader admits to kidnapping and killing the three Israeli's that kicked off this latest fight. Article says they really wanted them to exchange for prisoners but somehow they ended up dead.

Hamas needs a better PR person. Why say something that will leave you unsympathetic ... better to not say anything at all.

Hamas admits kidnapping Israeli teens | Arab News — Saudi Arabia News, Middle East News, Opinion, Economy and more.

JERUSALEM: A senior Hamas leader has said the group carried out the kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teens in the West Bank in June — the first time anyone from the Islamic militant group has said it was behind an attack that helped spark the current war in the Gaza Strip.
Saleh Arouri told a conference in Turkey on Wednesday that Hamas’s military wing, the Al-Qassam Brigades, carried out what he described as a “heroic operation” with the broader goal of sparking a new Palestinian uprising.
“It was an operation by your brothers from the Al-Qassam Brigades,” he said, saying Hamas hoped to exchange the youths for Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.
Hamas has repeatedly praised the kidnappings, but Arouri, the group’s exiled West Bank leader, is the first member to claim responsibility. Israel has accused Hamas of orchestrating the kidnappings and identified two operatives as the chief suspects. The two men remain on the loose.
Arouri’s admission shows “Hamas has no qualms whatsoever about targeting innocent civilians,” said Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev.
The kidnappings of the three teens while they were hitchhiking on June 12, along with the discovery of their bodies two weeks later, sparked a broad Israeli crackdown on Hamas members throughout the West Bank. Hamas responded with heavy rocket fire out of the Gaza Strip, leading Israel to launch an aerial and ground invasion of the territory.
More than 2,000 Palestinians, most of them civilians, have been killed in the fighting, according to Palestinian and UN officials, while 67 Israelis have also been killed, all but three of them soldiers. An Egyptian effort to mediate a cease-fire collapsed this week, leading to a resumption of heavy fighting.
Arouri told the conference that Hamas “did not have the intention at this time to ignite a large battle.” He said his group did not believe Israel wanted a war either. “But Allah has chosen and willed that a large battle would be ignited,” he said.

[RainMaker]

I think Hamas has done well with PR outside of that. They somehow convinced a lot of people in this country to support them over Israel despite the fact they have a long storied history of terrorism.

[Dutch]

This thing is getting out of control quick. With Iraq on the verge of failing completely as a democratic state, I'm not sure what the solution now will be for the Middle East, I get the feeling "their" people feel like they have nowhere to turn for help except by supporting ISIS...and it's quickly becoming at the expense of everybody else unfortunate to be anywhere near them.

U.N.: 'Unspeakable' suffering in Iraq town besieged by ISIS fighters

Baghdad, Iraq (CNN) -- As violence continues to wrack Iraq, the United Nations warned Saturday of another ethnic slaughter in the making by Sunni extremists from ISIS.

ISIS fighters have besieged the ethnic Turkmen Shiite town of Amerli in the north for two months, and its 20,000 or so residents are without power and running out of food, water and medical supplies.

"The situation of the people in Amerli is desperate and demands immediate action to prevent the possible massacre of its citizens," said Nickolay Mladenov, the U.N. secretary general's special representative for Iraq.

...

Since August 8, the U.S. military has carried out 93 airstrikes, 60 of them in support of Iraqi forces near the Mosul Dam, according to the Defense Department.

U.N. warning over ISIS siege of town of Amerli in Iraq - CNN.com