Severe Weather

[henry296]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Up to 55 dead now in Maui.

Some "Celebrities that do good things"

Golfer Colin Morikawa whose family used to have a restaurant there is donating money for each birdie he makes this week.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by henry296

Golfer Colin Morikawa whose family used to have a restaurant there is donating money for each birdie he makes this week.

I don't know who he is so I may be inferring incorrectly ... but TBH that sounds pretty darn cheesy. It's kinda gimmicky and insults the seriousness of the situation.

Give the damn money. If you finish in the money, give more money.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't know who he is so I may be inferring incorrectly ... but TBH that sounds pretty darn cheesy. It's kinda gimmicky and insults the seriousness of the situation.

Give the damn money. If you finish in the money, give more money.

He's one of the top players in the world, so likely will do well and win a lot of money. He will likely just donate money regardless of the gimmick

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I don't know who he is so I may be inferring incorrectly ... but TBH that sounds pretty darn cheesy. It's kinda gimmicky and insults the seriousness of the situation.

Give the damn money. If you finish in the money, give more money.

Or he could not donate at all.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

He's one of the top players in the world, so likely will do well and win a lot of money. He will likely just donate money regardless of the gimmick

Also, it is the positive way of encouraging (some would also call this a guilt trip) others to join him as well.

Morikawa said he hopes other people will join in on his pledge by contributing for his birdies.

"Look, it's one of the best places in the world we travel to year in and year out to go to Kapalua, play golf there," he said. "I know I'm going to ask my sponsors, I'm going to ask people that I know just to help out. ... I'm going to be pushing hard to make those birdies, and hopefully everyone else can reach out and help out as much as they can."

I feel like I heard of an golf organization who just got involved with a country's sovereign wealth fund who might get some positive press from matching Morikawa's contributions or even doubling or tripling it. It might be wrong for Morikawa to demand that organization donate to the cause but if they join him in this venture, maybe they are seen as good guys for once?

[RainMaker]

I know there are never consequences for anyone but the sugar industry that destroyed the wetlands out there should face charges.

[NobodyHere]

What crime did they commit?

[RainMaker]

I don't really know. Just feels like in a normal country, if your actions lead to devestating fires and mass casualties, you should bear a little responsibility for that.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Edward64

I'm sure it was fast moving but you'd think there'd be more heads up by the authorities. Wonder where the breakdown was.

Just a hint of the issues. More to come I'm sure

Just a moment...

State of play: Despite having the world's largest integrated outdoor public safety warning system, records show that Hawaii's emergency warning sirens did not sound even as the wildfires closed in on residents, AP reported.

Some residents found out about the fires when they were already physically near.

Didn't think about cell outages. Wife and I get weather alerts on our phones, and that is often the first time we hear about a weather related event (but we do also hear sirens).

Officials sent emergency alerts sent to mobile phones, radios and televisions, but it remains unclear how many of those warnings reached residents amid power and cell service outages, per AP.

[miami_fan]

Are they still doing those warnings tests on TV? I have not seen one of those in forever.

[illinifan999]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I don't really know. Just feels like in a normal country, if your actions lead to devestating fires and mass casualties, you should bear a little responsibility for that.

We as a country have long stopped demanding accountability for actions.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Are they still doing those warnings tests on TV? I have not seen one of those in forever.

Hmmmm, now that you mention it ... I don't remember seeing any on my streaming services.


EDIT:

Today, to the broadcast media lobbying group's knowledge, there are no pure-play independent streaming services that participate in EAS.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Are they still doing those warnings tests on TV? I have not seen one of those in forever.

They do still exists, once a month, but they are no longer required to show a particular visual to go with it, merely the short audio header tones and a brief "this station is conducting a test ..." voiceover. Typically they are aired either in early afternoon or overnight (there's an montly odd/even system that requires them to air either between 830a-sunset or sunset-830a). If you don't see them then they're doing just what they intend: make them as inobtrusive as possible. The purpose is simply to test the equipment.

The current system, honestly, is just a mess. It's never been used for the primary intended purpose (federal communication when the normal media channels were not available), the equipment is in questionable repair in many places, it's been triggered repeatedly either by human error or malicious hackers in the past two decades, in a cord cutting era AND the lowest use of broadcast TV since the system was developed it's usefulness is questionable at best. As far back as 2004 the FCC chairman openly questioned whether it remained relevant in the 24 hour news cycle

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Edward64

The flooding made me wonder about my flood risk.

No idea how reputable the below link is but rated my address as

1, 1, 2, 2, baby!

[Edward64]

I don't know the lay of the land but I can see some truth in what he is saying re: sirens not helping but hurting.

If the sirens go off and wake me up, first thing I'd think is tsunami but then see the fire/smoke ... I'm not sure I'd know what to do, could it be tsunami, or fire, or both. Sirens around me have gone off to warn me about tornado warning/watches. I wonder if sirens can also relay a short voice message like "tsunami warnings" vs "fire warning")

(Just googled on it, apparently some sirens can do "voice warnings")

Shitty situation.

Maui wildfires: At least 110 people dead in Maui wildfires, governor says | CNN

Hawaii has one the largest siren warning systems in the world, but the 80 alarms on Maui, stayed silent. Maui Emergency Management Agency Administrator Herman Andaya told reporters Wednesday afternoon he has no regrets about not using sirens as the fires started spreading wildly August 8 and that doing so wouldn’t have affected the death toll.

Andaya said the sirens are primarily used to warn when a tsunami is approaching the area and if they had sounded, many residents would’ve gone to the mountainside, where the fire was at its worst.

“Even if we sounded the sirens, it would not have saved those people on the mountainside,” said Andaya, who later added there are no sirens on the mountains – most are on the coastline.

[Edward64]

Yeah, health.

I wonder how much his pension is.

The administrator of Maui’s emergency management agency has resigned, citing health reasons, Maui County said in a news release Thursday, nine days after the deadliest US wildfire in more than 100 years began on the Hawaiian island.

[Edward64]

Map tracking the path shows SD to be in the middle of it if it doesn't lose steam.

Hurricane Hilary could dump a year's worth of rain on parts of the Southwest | CNN

Concern is growing Hurricane Hilary will unleash a prolific amount of flooding rainfall on the southwestern US and parts of California as it makes a rare move over the region Sunday and into early next week, triggering the first ever tropical storm watch for California.

[Thomkal]

At the South Korea/Japan/US summit at Camp David, Japan pledged $2 million to the Maui recovery efforts.

[Thomkal]

Looks like Southern California is on deck for some rare tropical weather in the next few days. If you haven't been through one before, please take it seriously and stay safe. Don't put yourself in danger just to get that one picture at the beach

[miami_fan]

Few tips for the folks on the west coast that are not used to this hurricane stuff.

1. Fill up those gas tanks.

2. Fill the can pantry of whatever your favorite canned foods are. Get some charcoal/gas tanks for your grills. Filling the fridge/freezer with food should not be a priority. Now is not the time to stock up on ice cream. Have an extra can opener and extra lighters.

3. Speaking of ice, getting a couple of cooler filled with ice for those that might need to keep meds, baby teething rings etc.cool. Oh yeah, make sure you have all your prescription meds.

4. It is probably too late to get that generator, so find those flashlights and get some batteries, candles etc. One or two for each room and set your batteries up so you can put them in correctly in complete darkness if you need to.

5. Fill up bathtubs with water. If the water goes, you got water to flush the toilet. If you don't have bathtubs, fill other containers with this purpose in mind. Speaking of the toilet, do you have toilet paper?

6. Take pics of all your valuables NOW! It should make those insurance claims easier if you have to claim anything.

There are tons more of course. Others can add their own. I have no idea what precautions you guys might need to do for your houses outside of the usual boarding the windows and using sandbags. Oh definitely bring that lawn furniture, pool stuff and trash cans inside.

[Solecismic]

Another consideration - there isn't much in the way of water storage in SoCal the way there is in most places out east. If a ton of rain falls quickly, it will fill up whatever capacity there is very quickly and there will be flooding, mudslides even.

You might want to assume, if there's flooding, that you should boil any water and let it cool before drinking or using to prepare food.

Rainfall that eastern areas used to tropical storms can handle easily might be a deadly concern. All the basics we know out here... don't drive on a road if you can't see how much water there is, etc, people might not know out there.

It doesn't sound like there's much chance of severe wind anywhere except landfall. I don't think wind will be the issue - your every-other-year windstorms on the west coast are worse than that. The tropical storm threshold begins at 39 mph. The rainfall is concerning, though. Fortunately, it appears to trending more east of the most populated coastal areas. Even so, it could cause major problems right around LA.

[PilotMan]

I do think, as we have seen in Mexico, that the mountains will provide a lot of protection in general. It's still going to rain a ton, but I doubt that we'll see the sort of widespread wreckingball type damage we see in flat florida and the east coast.

[GrantDawg]

Outside of Dodger Stadium today. pic.twitter.com/zD4HqLZYg2

— Baseball Nostalgist (@bballnostalgist) August 21, 2023

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

Outside of Dodger Stadium today. pic.twitter.com/zD4HqLZYg2

— Baseball Nostalgist (@bballnostalgist) August 21, 2023

I saw that earlier. I really hope that is a real photo because that is the perfect explanation for Chavez Ravine for someone who had never given too much thought to the name.

[Edward64]

114 confirmed and 800 still missing. Holy crap.

Biden visits fire-ravaged Maui as search efforts continue, with more than 800 people still missing

[JPhillips]

Are they missing or unaccounted for? That makes a big difference in disasters as people don't always report themselves to the government. There's a difference between a family that has reported a missing person and not knowing if the occupants of a home are safe.

[Edward64]

Good question. Pretty sure its "unaccounted for" but have seen other reports use "missing".

Hawaii Gov. Josh Green said Sunday on the CBS News show “Face the Nation" that more than 1,000 remained unaccounted for. Maui Mayor Richard Bissen said in a pre-recorded video on Instagram that the number was 850.

[JPhillips]

Yeah, the media has been using the two terms interchangeably, but they mean different things.

[Edward64]

AP article below has a good timeline graphic.

In deadly Maui fires, many had no warning and no way out. Those who dodged barricades survived | AP News

This disaster started in middle of night but it was daytime when it really got bad. Below quote horrifies me.

Small brush fires aren’t unusual for Lahaina, and the fire department declares this one 100% contained by 9:55 a.m. The assurance puts many residents at ease; the high winds have prompted the closure of some public schools for the day, and others have not yet started. That means many of Lahaina’s 3,000 public school students are home alone while their parents work.

[miami_fan]

This is definitely a discussion for a different thread but Edward's post brought up the thought.

We probably need to have the discussion of the role that schools play as "child sitters" as opposed to just educators. I am not talking about expecting the kids to be in school because the kids need to learn stuff. I am talking about expecting the kids to remain in school through natural disasters, illness, WW3, whatever because we the parents have to work" type of role.

[Edward64]

During Atlanta's 2014 Snowmaggedon, there were schools that kept kids because the parents couldn't make it or schools decided sending kids back by bus was too dangerous. My kids had tornado drills and if there was a tornado warning (e.g. spotted on the ground vs tornado watch), they wouldn't put kids on bus until it was over.

During times of natural disaster, IMO this is the right thing to do. May be uncomfortable for kids & stay behind teachers to sleep overnight at school, but definitely better than sending them out in a potentially dangerous situation.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/freak-sout...ry?id=22279318

Nearly 8,000 students across Georgia and Alabama woke up today in school gyms or on buses. Streets and highways were littered with abandoned cars. Others emerged from churches, fire stations and grocery stores where they had spent the night after a rare snowstorm left thousands of unaccustomed southerners frozen in their tracks.

"Weather got so severe that we had to close the school," said Christine Hoffman, the principal of Inverness Elementary School in Birmingham, Ala., where 75 students spent the night. "We promised parents that staff would be at our school until every child was picked up."

Specifically for illness, my wife tells me there were plenty of kids sick enough that parents should have kept them at home. Easier to dump sick kids at school vs not working/working from home ... or as she suspected, for some stay-home moms, public subsidized daycare.

[miami_fan]

I would argue the schools in Maui did what they were supposed to do. I can't speak to the fire situation as that is not something I have experienced. I have experienced the snow day example while in South Dakota and it seems to fit in this case.

They identified that it was not safe for the students to be remain in the schools at that time or it would be best to shut down the schools in anticipation for potential heavy snowfall later in the day. They released the kids with enough time so the kids and school staff can all get home safely. The schools contacted all the parents to let them know that they were sending the kids home early and/or closing the schools. When that happened, I or my wife had to look at my supervisor and tell them that I had to go home because the school was closing and I had to take care of the kids. Of course, I have also done the wake up in the morning and find out it's a snow day, now what the hell do I do with the kids situation as well. Either way, I had to either make up the time or take time off if that is what my supervisor required. And yes, sometimes the forecast was shit and no snow fell at all.

I don't know if the situation in Maui mirrored what I just described. I am assuming the schools did not just put the kids out of the schools. I am saying outside of what happened in Maui, in general that there seems to be a growing expectation that the schools need to take on more of a child sitting role in order for parents to not have to leave work early to take care of them and/or for employers to allow for the parents to leave work to take care of their child in these situations. That is why I included sickness in my initial post. It is not a new problem. The idea of forcing my mother to have to leave work early for any reason still send chills down my back. But if that is what had to happen, then that is what had to happen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

public subsidized daycare.

the primary function of public schools in Georgia afaic

[flere-imsaho]

Arguably that's what the people of Georgia have voted for (and a lot of other southern states).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Arguably that's what the people of Georgia have voted for (and a lot of other southern states).

It's been that way for a looooong time. And only gotten worse.

The good news is that, the relative handful of people who actually DO care, there are a lot more options now than they're used to be.

The rest? Worker drone is the ceiling for the vast majority, not sure how big a percentage you could elevate beyond that no matter what you did.

I just grudge mightily paying for the daycare for people who really shouldn't be having kids in the first place afaic.

[Solecismic]

My son went through the Ann Arbor public schools. To call them baby-sitters gives them more credit than they deserve. He dropped out early, got his GED, and is finally discovering something about academia he can get into, though he's been set back a bit by having to start with community college.

I don't know what they teach. My first high school parent-teacher night, and half his teachers told me he probably wouldn't learn anything that year - the curriculum was so basic and vanilla. One told me she'd try and give him advanced work, but that never happened.

His history teacher proudly showed off posters the students were making for a project. I thought he had me mistaken for a fourth-grader's parent, but, no, that's what they were doing. He taught entirely from "packets" and couldn't answer any student questions about the material, because he didn't know it himself. At least he got fired that year - for repeatedly ditching class because he was moonlighting as a real-estate agent.

The one engaging teacher he had that year was also his homeroom teacher. When things started to go bad in the second semester, I made an appointment to come in. My son hadn't done any homework for a couple of months. No one noticed - certainly not his home-room teacher. He caught up in one weekend.

At that point, I found out enough about individual schools to force a switch, but it really didn't make a difference. This is Ann Arbor - where half the adults have advanced college degrees. I can't even imagine how bad it is elsewhere. I have no idea what the kids these days will do as adults, even if they can put down TikTok for five minutes.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

My son went through the Ann Arbor public schools.

So much for the "it's a Southern thing" narrative I guess

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I don't know what they teach. My first high school parent-teacher night, and half his teachers told me he probably wouldn't learn anything that year - the curriculum was so basic and vanilla. One told me she'd try and give him advanced work, but that never happened.

And screw it, I'll dola if I gotta dola.

This is so reminiscent of how we ended up moving to Athens from the small town we were in.

2nd? 3rd? grade year, in the little private school and my son encounters something he didn't really "get" for the first time. We check with the teacher (an alum of the school btw), since parental engagement was encouraged, to try to understand how they were teaching the topic so that we could reinforce that.

Her reply? "Don't worry about it. He's so far ahead of the rest of the class that I could lock him in the closet for a year & he'd still be way ahead"

See, when I'm writing a painful check every year, that's the wrong. fucking. answer. Being merely better than low-end mediocre is NOT the purpose of that check. We moved before the next year came around.

Point being, the wrong private school ain't a meaningful improvement over the bad publics educationally. You might avoid some metal detector needs but that's about it.

[Edward64]

We were generally happy with the HS education the kids got. Here's how US News ranked us

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...scores_section

All Rankings
#358 in National Rankings
#9 in Georgia High Schools
#6 in Atlanta, GA Metro Area High Schools
#2 in Forsyth County Public Schools High Schools

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Edward64

We were generally happy with the HS education the kids got. Here's how US News ranked us

https://www.usnews.com/education/bes...scores_section

To be fair, you're in a pretty distinct outlier of an area. It's not that it's impossible to find, it's simply rare.

[Solecismic]

What kills me is that I saw this happening, year after year, and there wasn't a damned thing I could do about it.

If kids tune out because they're bored and aren't a discipline problem, teachers aren't supposed to be OK with that. When I talked to his home-room teacher, I asked that question. He was very friendly and open about it. He said he had too many students in real trouble (I didn't ask for details) that he didn't have time to check in with everyone.

[GrantDawg]

My kids went to what was supposed to be a bad school. Somehow they got a solid education, good enough that my son is about to graduate with a double major from one of the most elite liberal arts schools in the country. He loved his supposedly terrible school and never had a single day of trouble. *shrug*

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Solecismic]

I think it's often hit-or-miss, even within individual schools. And some kids are better about learning on their own.

Weather-wise, 2-8 inches of rain yesterday/overnight locally, with 1-3 more expected today, even more in isolated areas when a round of severe storms comes in late. There are flood warnings all over the place. I can see neighbor yards underwater. The power's been out across the street for about ten hours, we had minor outages last night.

Our cold, mild spring became this up-and-down stormy July/August. The usual hot weather never arrived, but we've gotten the usual spring storms and more lately.

[Edward64]

Down from 1000 to 400 unaccounted for. Horrendous, some people should be fired at the very least.

Nearly 400 people are still listed as unaccounted for after this month’s devastating wildfires on Maui – a dramatic drop from the more than 1,000 previously believed missing but still a stark indicator of the disaster’s tragic impact.

The “validated list” – curated by the FBI – includes 388 names, Maui County said Thursday, as cell phone data now also is being used to try to pinpoint where victims may have been when the deadliest US wildfire disaster in more than 100 years tore through the Hawaiian island. At least 115 people are confirmed dead.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Down from 1000 to 400 unaccounted for. Horrendous, some people should be fired at the very least.

And they probably will, and they probably shouldn't be. There are natural disasters that are common, people prepare for, and yet still end up deadly because they are disasters. But then are things like this that they could not or at least did not predict that they were completely caught off guard. Things will change in the future, I'm sure. Their will be heightened awareness and planning done for the next several decades because of this. I just don't know how much blame you can put on people who could not have foreseen this occurring.

[Lathum]

Agreed. It was a pretty freak thing and the GOP hyper politicizing it doesn't help.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And they probably will, and they probably shouldn't be. There are natural disasters that are common, people prepare for, and yet still end up deadly because they are disasters. But then are things like this that they could not or at least did not predict that they were completely caught off guard. Things will change in the future, I'm sure. Their will be heightened awareness and planning done for the next several decades because of this. I just don't know how much blame you can put on people who could not have foreseen this occurring.

Of course there will no funding appropriated to put most of those plans in motions beyond the next election or two.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

And they probably will, and they probably shouldn't be. There are natural disasters that are common, people prepare for, and yet still end up deadly because they are disasters. But then are things like this that they could not or at least did not predict that they were completely caught off guard. Things will change in the future, I'm sure. Their will be heightened awareness and planning done for the next several decades because of this. I just don't know how much blame you can put on people who could not have foreseen this occurring.

It's unusual that we agree on too much stuff so I'll note that my lean here is in the same direction you're going.

I'm all in favor of a comprehensive review of who-did-what-and-when and if unreasonable decisions or delays show up, put heads on pikes. But based on what I've seen/heard/read so far, I'm not sure those kinds of errors were made. This moved faster than could have reasonably been expected, the process started from behind and couldn't catch up. Not sure that ends up being anybody's "fault".

[Edward64]

I do agree that a comprehensive review is needed.

The really bad stuff didn't happen until mid-afternoon. It wasn't someone going to bed at 11pm and then waking up and being trapped at 5am.

See article below on timeline. The fire was declared contained at 9am and by 3pm it was raging again.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/timeline-d...y?id=102253075

So yeah, wait for the official report but to me there was an obvious breakdown in monitoring the fire, warning people, coordinating evacuation. High likelihood it was some person(s) and/or Hawaii Electric fault. IMO heads should roll.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

It's unusual that we agree on too much stuff so I'll note that my lean here is in the same direction you're going.

I'm all in favor of a comprehensive review of who-did-what-and-when and if unreasonable decisions or delays show up, put heads on pikes. But based on what I've seen/heard/read so far, I'm not sure those kinds of errors were made. This moved faster than could have reasonably been expected, the process started from behind and couldn't catch up. Not sure that ends up being anybody's "fault".

I'm generally of this mind as well. I understand those affected by such events are going to go through the stages of grief and one of these is anger, but there's only so much that can be done with some catastrophes. A building collapses where there were warnings about the structure, that's one thing. A freak of nature fire? I don't know what is to be done.

(You want to rail on response in the aftermath, that's fine. Though even then, there's only so much that can be done in some cases. Here, you're on an island in the middle of the ocean. Things may not get to you immediately. As for rebuilding after disasters, I don't know how anything ever gets done. There's hardly enough maintenance of cities as it is, let alone completely rebuilding them.)