The Trump Presidency – 2016

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think it's all about cruelty. Growing up in a rural community, cruelty was how one expressed manhood. Cruelty to other men, by bullying and isolating, cruelty to women, by treating them as disposable objects for gratification and physically dominating them when necessary, cruelty to animals, by needlessly killing and abuse just to show who is boss, and cruelty to self, by not being allowed to express and ultimately feel pain and emotions associated with femininity. That's what I chased as a kid, but I was never able to do everything in the way that would make me respected. Sure it eventually fucks you up and leaves you isolated and full of rage, but that's what it means to be a man.

Trump is the ideal man of cruelty, and to people still living with that as an embodiment of manhood, I can see the appeal. Trump says cruelty is okay and a lack of cruelty makes you less of a man.

Co-sign to this. Similar to my rural upbringing

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The First Amendment is easy. I get free speech. You shut the fuck up. And Trump gets the unwavering support of everyone who feels condescended to whenever some judge or law professor tries to correct them.

Need some time to keep perspective here, but an early player for "favorite post of all time on FOFC" for me. alb is just crushing it over here. I might even actually go read Patchen. j/k nah

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I might even actually go read Patchen. j/k nah

Let us not be defined by the poets we liked when we were sophomores.

[Glengoyne]

Arles' discussion in the other thread, stating that the president/administration might not really have made any difference brought me here. It got me thinking. I'm certainly not a fan of how Trump has managed the governmet's response, but his declaration of emergency and the gravity of his remarks on March 13(?) is probably the single most impactful event that has influenced outcomes to date. That big positive is countered by a lot
CDC and other agencies hampering early testing
Bureaucratic stonewalling with early PPE concerns/preparedness
No National organization managing PPE or ventilator shortages.

I figure that any other president might have have got some of those things right, but I don't think that is a sure bet. Arles may not be far from the truth. The president gets mixed marks on handling the Pandemic so far.

That said, I wonder if Trump's rush to re open things, pushing governors on churches etc. is going to be the difference maker for him and really how well/poorly the country fares the rest of this year. I don't think we'll have a sense for his final grade in pandemic response till this runs its course.

[Lathum]

Trump is set to announce an executive order against social media companies - CNNPolitics

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Trump is set to announce an executive order against social media companies - CNNPolitics

Straight out of the autocrats playbook.

[CrimsonFox]

So...help me follow this.

If baby shuts down twitter where is baby going to complain about twitter?

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Trump is set to announce an executive order against social media companies - CNNPolitics

So, Twitter is forced to sue under assorted free speech clauses and since there's a lawsuit involved, suspends Trump's account waiting for a ruling. Trump is addicted to Tweeting because he doesn't do any work aside from golfing, so he'll lose his mind.

Clever.

[RainMaker]

He doesn't want it shutdown, he wants to control the speech on it. Just autocratic crap his bootlicking sycophants will lap up.

[spleen1015]

Just a distraction as the COVID death toll reaches 100k.

[albionmoonlight]

The EO will do nothing.

It is red meat for the base.

It is a distraction from his failures.

It is about the media, so the media will take the bait.

[albionmoonlight]

dola, in fairness to Trump, though, it isn't entirely a calculated distraction.

He sincerely and honestly does care more about his tweets than a hundred thousand dead Americans.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The EO will do nothing.

It is red meat for the base.

It is a distraction from his failures.

It is about the media, so the media will take the bait.

Exactly. It is nothing but pandering to his base. Showing he is their champion against the big bad media trying to stomp him down every chance they get.

I get why Jack won't ban him, but man, it would be glorious if they did.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

The EO will do nothing.

It is red meat for the base.

It is a distraction from his failures.

It is about the media, so the media will take the bait.

"The move highlights what Trump believes is a fight worth having. In many ways, the latest episode with Twitter feeds Trump's narrative that there are powerful forces in the media aligned against him, and that his is the only voice his supporters can trust.
"This plays right into President Trump's hands," said Jason Miller, the communications director for Trump's 2016 campaign and someone who has been directly involved with Trump's social media strategy. "They basically handed him a massive gift."
Yup. The media lemmings run off the cliff for him again.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

"The move highlights what Trump believes is a fight worth having. In many ways, the latest episode with Twitter feeds Trump's narrative that there are powerful forces in the media aligned against him, and that his is the only voice his supporters can trust.
"This plays right into President Trump's hands," said Jason Miller, the communications director for Trump's 2016 campaign and someone who has been directly involved with Trump's social media strategy. "They basically handed him a massive gift."
Yup. The media lemmings run off the cliff for him again.

It is, however, a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

When someone with a huge following lies about basic facts, you either let them get away with it, or you "pick a fight" with them. Neither is a great option.

And the particular lie in this case--that vote by mail leads to increased fraud--is actually something that a lot of people might believe. So there was some real value in pointing people to actual facts.

[RainMaker]

Doesn't matter what Twitter does with his tweets. They could claim they are all true. It's a private company that has a right to do what it wants on their platform. Don't like it? Post on another.

[BillyMadison]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Doesn't matter what Twitter does with his tweets. They could claim they are all true. It's a private company that has a right to do what it wants on their platform. Don't like it? Post on another.

Actually it's a publicly traded company, not a private company. But still. Agree to their TOS? You play by their rules. What Trump is trying to do is effectively limit Twitter's free speech.

Also Twitter is Trump's biggest megaphone. Even if he could do anything he's shooting himself in the foot here. Remember that Milo Yiannopolous guy, when he got banned? Ever hear from him anymore? Lose Twitter lose the election.

[kingfc22]

The only to get him to stop is to simply ignore him. I realize that is a near impossible task seeing what his position is, but the media needs to stop reporting on every word, every tweet, etc and just focused on his actions.

This is a five year old we are talking about. Rewarding him with attention for repeated poor behavior is only going to increase that behavior.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

discussion in the other thread, stating that the president/administration might not really have made any difference brought me here.

TRUMP 2020: Because you can't really prove that it matters who the President is.

[Flasch186]

Sold my TWTR today to hopefully pick up on a swoon. I expect a lot more turbulence around this Social Media topic the next 3 months.

[Lathum]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...d-job-70908368

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by Lathum

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...d-job-70908368

NO unemployment for YOU!

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Lathum

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews...d-job-70908368

Burning in effigy is soooooooo 18th century.

[stevew]

Epic rant by Brian Sims of the PA legislature today. At least one Rep was positive and the GOP leadership hid it for weeks. While they kept passing trash bills to reopen the state.

[stevew]

Pa. Rep. Brian Sims calls out GOP members for hiding coronavirus cases

This is the appropriate level of pissed off

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by stevew

Pa. Rep. Brian Sims calls out GOP members for hiding coronavirus cases

This is the appropriate level of pissed off

I have a feeling we might see more of this in the next day or two

SI

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

We should open the doors and let anyone from Hong Kong immigrate.

We won't. But we should.

There's hope yet but we'll have to wait on his speech.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/marc-t...kong-crackdown

"He's [Trump's] going to have to send a message to [Chinese President] Xi Jinping that, look, if you launch a military crackdown ... in Hong Kong, if you arrest the democracy leaders, if you ban these elections, we're going to repeal the Hong Kong Policy Act. We're going to take away the preferential trade status. We're going to welcome Hong Kong people into the United States ... you're going to have brain drain and capital flight."

"We're going to welcome those people here, because those are the kinds of people we need to rebuild the post-COVID economy," Thiessen said. "If you don't want them, we'll take them."

[QuikSand]

Today should be very calm and rational.

[QuikSand]

Useful reference.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...nated-in-1968/

Your money quote, after relating a series of unspeakable horrors against Americans:

But it also cited as a prime factor for the discontent a December 1967 news conference by {Walter} Headley, who was quoted as saying, “When the looting starts, the shooting starts.” Though Headley died four months after the riots, aggressive policing continued to cast a pall over race relations in Miami.

There is, incidentally, no bottom... no depths to which this person (the one in the news today) and those around him will not gleefully stoop. Don't look for it.

[QuikSand]

Minnesota police arrest CNN reporter and camera crew as they report from protests in Minneapolis https://t.co/oZdqBti776 pic.twitter.com/3QbeTjD5ed

— CNN (@CNN) May 29, 2020

This is fine.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

This is fine.

They were standing where they where supposed to stand. They followed instructions and the police just arrested them. Watch Trump praise the police for stopping the "fake news."

[QuikSand]

It said right on their hats and jackets "Enemy of the People," it's a good arrest.

[QuikSand]

Mrs Q was up late, bemoaning the "when they start looting, we start shooting." She went down that road, yet again, of "well, that HAS to be the end for him, not even the republicans could back THAT up..."

She really needed sleep. So I didn't tell her.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Today should be very calm and rational.

The official White House account did a copy and paste job on the President's censured* Tweet. If the One True Dark Jedi were in charge of Twitter, that's an automatic banning, no questions asked.


*--Note spelling.

[QuikSand]

This twitter thread looks like the best quick reference for the quote context needed today (and on this page of this forum thread):

1/ This line in Trump’s tweet: “when the looting starts, the shooting starts”... is a quote from Miami Police Chief Walter Headley

In Dec 1967, months before riots at GOP Convention in Miami, Headley used that quote to announce “get tough” policy for policing black neighborhoods

— igorvolsky (@igorvolsky) May 29, 2020

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

This twitter thread looks like the best quick reference for the quote context needed today (and on this page of this forum thread):

1/ This line in Trump’s tweet: “when the looting starts, the shooting starts”... is a quote from Miami Police Chief Walter Headley

In Dec 1967, months before riots at GOP Convention in Miami, Headley used that quote to announce “get tough” policy for policing black neighborhoods
— igorvolsky (@igorvolsky) May 29, 2020

I want to say "thanks for the read" but that doesn't appear to be the correct sentiment as it's both explanatory and depressing in the "history often rhymes" sense.

SI

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

This twitter thread looks like the best quick reference for the quote context needed today (and on this page of this forum thread):

1/ This line in Trump’s tweet: “when the looting starts, the shooting starts”... is a quote from Miami Police Chief Walter Headley

In Dec 1967, months before riots at GOP Convention in Miami, Headley used that quote to announce “get tough” policy for policing black neighborhoods

— igorvolsky (@igorvolsky) May 29, 2020

I get that some people will focus on the historical context, but which is more likely:

1. That Donald Trump the historian was waxing nostalgic about the good old days when America was great and the police kept black people in their place, using a historically-relevant quote?

2. That Donald Trump the faux tough guy and general all-around nitwit heard what he considered to be a tough and kewl-sounding rhyme and used it with no knowledge of its origins.

Yeah, I vote #2. Do I think he is a racist? Yes. Do I also think he is a mouth-breathing simpleton? Yes. The fact that he hates these protesters and glorifies the ones in Michigan is a manifestation of the former, but the use of this specific quote is a manifestation of the latter. I think that Twitter thread is giving him far too much credit.

[QuikSand]

All fair. Also in play that a different terrible person in/around the WH was really behind the tweet and offered the quote as "strong" to appeal to President Goldfish's paltry vocabulary.

[kingfc22]

It’s just pandering. Similarly to his initial tweet, what less than 48 hours ago, that there will be justice. That was just a tweet trying to pander to those he thought he could benefit off of the Biden “you’re not black” news cycle. Speaking of which that feels like it has long been forgotten now.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

All fair. Also in play that a different terrible person in/around the WH was really behind the tweet and offered the quote as "strong" to appeal to President Goldfish's paltry vocabulary.

Yes. That’s pretty much precisely my thinking there, that Steven Miller or some other ghoul fed him that line and he regurgitated it because it sounded teh awesome to him.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

All fair. Also in play that a different terrible person in/around the WH was really behind the tweet and offered the quote as "strong" to appeal to President Goldfish's paltry vocabulary.

When talking to my wife about it, my first guess was someone from the Stephen Miller branch of idiocy. But I'm with Ben - there's no way Trump actually retained that quote and could use it "properly" He was fed it from somewhere.

EDIT: I feel bad because I basically regurgitated what Ben said but like 10 minutes later because I hadn't refreshed the thread.

SI

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

When talking to my wife about it, my first guess was someone from the Stephen Miller branch of idiocy. But I'm with Ben - there's no way Trump actually retained that quote and could use it "properly" He was fed it from somewhere.


SI

I 100% think that quote came from Miller or one of his lackey's. Trump has the attention span of a gnat and certainly isn't versed in the history of civil rights in America to even connect the dots.

[kingfc22]

This opinion piece is very on topic.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...d8d_story.html

[JPhillips]

I think there's a chance that a guy that was an adult in 1967, who was a racist, who grew up in a racist family, and who keeps talking about a time when America was great, might remember a phrase like that even if he can't tell you the history of the words.

[Qwikshot]

It's amazing isn't it. Nary one rebuke from Republicans...this is the America they want.

I think Trump wants riots to show how tough he is on the blacks just like the wall was for Mexicans.

I love how Lindsey Graham was asking old judges to retire so they could shunt new ones in.

I think by the time Trump leaves office (big IF if he steals the one this fall), he'll have damaged things so much it'll take decades to fix and build trust if ever.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

It's amazing isn't it. Nary one rebuke from Republicans...this is the America they want.

I think Trump wants riots to show how tough he is on the blacks just like the wall was for Mexicans.

I love how Lindsey Graham was asking old judges to retire so they could shunt new ones in.

I think by the time Trump leaves office (big IF if he steals the one this fall), he'll have damaged things so much it'll take decades to fix and build trust if ever.

We're just going to stagger around until someone competent follows his ideals and finishes breaking it.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by bronconick

We're just going to stagger around until someone competent follows his ideals and finishes breaking it.

Sadly, I think that's where this is all leading

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

It's amazing isn't it. Nary one rebuke from Republicans...this is the America they want.

Unless they take a drubbing in the Fall. In which case, don't you know, it's all about fiscal responsibility and how dare you bring up the past. I'm just a libertarian leaning conservative who cares about the debt. I hold Republicans and Democrats to the same standard, and I am offended you would imply otherwise. I am very smart.

You are the one bringing up ancient history like the most recent Republican President who had broad approval with both the voters and elected leaders of his party. Every time I try to make a point, you just say "Trump, Trump, Trump." You know most Republicans didn't even like Trump. We just want economic growth and low crime. Why are you against that?

[JPhillips]

And Dem leaders will play along refusing to investigate the Trump years and urging that we all look forward so we can work together to solve the country's problems.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I think there's a chance that a guy that was an adult in 1967, who was a racist, who grew up in a racist family, and who keeps talking about a time when America was great, might remember a phrase like that even if he can't tell you the history of the words.

...at least as likely is that during one of his rallies somewhere in dumbfuckistan, he had an opening act racist sheriff or whatnot give a fluffer speech as a welcome, and drop that line along the way. It rhymes, and carries a distinct whiff of being racist, so it could pass the test of being something he'd just pick up for a time like this.