WW CXXXIX - The Red Death II - GAME OVER, SERVANTS WIN

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I don't think it is reading too much into it. If I'm the detective and I see MrBug perform a wolf action at night there's no way I'm describing it as "found a convert last night." "Found a convert," is a huge assumption, if he saw MrBug perform a wolf night action how could he determine if he was an original wolf or a convert?

Yes, unless he believes Bug was not an original wolf, then one states convert. With how adamant bug has been saying he is the seer and no one else coming forward, I don't see many saying he is an original wolf, so convert would make more sense. In other news You're being extremly talkative today, almost twice as many posts as you've had this entire game, which was not much.

[Commo_Soldier]

Awesome, EF is here, maybe he can enlighten us.

[The Jackal]

Yes please enlighten, EF.

[Thomkal]

well I'm keeping my vote on EagleFan until he comes back and gives us more information. I suggest others do to to keep pressure on him to do just that.

As for MrBug I think we need to look at his situation a bit differently due to the chance his power can corrupt him. So he's not like a normal seer making a role claim and then having it being challenged with a counter claim. He really could be the Adept and got converted after/before his reveal, really could be the Adept and remains uncorrupted, or a Servant trying to pull out the real Adept (which seems unlikely at this point)

The fact remains that MrBug is at the nexus of all these claims today. Removing him from the equation gives us information on two people-EagleFan and Narcizo-as well as the two people he claims to have scanned that are still in the game-Jackal and Mauboy.

If Bug is evil-then Narcizo and EagleFan are likely good and Jackal and Mauboy go from semi-cleared back into the pot of unknowns.

if Bug is good, then Narcizo and EagleFan are evil for sure and Jackal and Mauboy are more solidly good than they were before (but with the protection against detection charm and the chance they were corrupted after Bug scanned them still out there)

Lets face it, there will always been questions about Bug's goodness the rest of the game due to the chance that he can corrupt himself. So as crazy as it sounds, it might make the most sense to answer what will likely be the biggest question of the game-has MrBug become corrupted?.

[EagleFan]

I have a couple minutes so I will tell you what I have been doing.

I am a detective.

I came close to asking to be replaced on day one when I thought that I missed the deadline (since I was going to be busy and unavailable much of the game I was afraid that deadline was going to be rough for me). Thought I had missed putting in an order but then saw I had until 2 AM. Hate the feeling like I just screwed up and cost the village potential information.


As it turns out I learned nothing on night one. I followed Danny and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 2 I chose hoops and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 3 I chose The Jackal and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 4 I went with bug and saw what was described as a mysterious shadowy figure hovering above bug and then saw something that appeared to be an evil spirit enter bugs body. Said that he suddenly looked my direction but it was uncertain if he saw me, just that there was hate in his eyes as he glared in my direction.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

That is fine, but are we really going to possibly lynch him for that one word. I think it is a huge mistake. We killed Annie in Evil Dead because of one similar little thing.

No one is saying we're going to lynch him on that word. We could lynch him because he came out against a seer. We could lynch him because he has an awful voting record. We could lynch him because, presuming everyone believes I am who I say I am, he would be the only possibility for a wolf on Thomkal in the Thomkal-Zinto vote. We could vote him for being so vague in his reveal, not giving enough information and heading out without leaving enough time to respond to questions.

The word is just an unexplained bugaboo that goes directly to explaining who he is, what role he is, what he's been doing. It's something we can't explain, and it's key to understanding who he is. So we need him to come back and explain it, so we can decide if he's legit or not.

You would have us ignore that completely and take him on faith, and hang a seer besides. In actuality, we're the ones patiently holding out for more info. You want us to take action before we know everything we can know.

[EagleFan]

Have just a few minutes. Have to get the girls off the bus and then taking my oldest to play some tennis.

Will answer any questions that I can before I have to go.

[Thomkal]

As I was the Detective in the first version of this ruleset, I am waiting to hear EagleFan's specific and full knowledge of how his observe power works and what exactly he saw if he claims detective to match up what I know of it. I doubt very much the power has changed from the first runthrough of this game.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It tells him Bug is a wolf. It doesn't tell him Bug is a convert.

I don't get specifics...I doubt the dectective does either. If ef can watch me I doubt he would also see me get converted...he would have to have watched the person doing the conversion

[Thomkal]

geez of course he shows up after I posted that lol

[Chief Rum]

Okay, that explains it. EF actually saw the conversion. Sheesh, EF, you're killing us. There are three pages of threads dedicated to your vagueness.

[The Jackal]

That sounds like a pretty good explanation.

[Chief Rum]

EF, why do you say "a detective"? Do you have knowledge of another detective in the game? Quit being vage, dernit!

[Chief Rum]

vague

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

As I was the Detective in the first version of this ruleset, I am waiting to hear EagleFan's specific and full knowledge of how his observe power works and what exactly he saw if he claims detective to match up what I know of it. I doubt very much the power has changed from the first runthrough of this game.

Yes that was the exact answer I was expecting-that he either watched the conversion take place last night, or saw MrBug somehow change after his magic number kicked in on his conversion chance with his scans.

Now if someone else comes out today and claims detective my head might blow up.

unvote eaglefan
vote mrbug

[Autumn]

Huh, that's not what I expected, to be honest. I'm not sure I buy it. Do those targets make sense? Certainly MrBug last night would if EF had doubts about him. Hoops and Danny are always good people to watch. What was Jackal up to that day that made you watch him?

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

EF, why do you say "a detective"? Do you have knowledge of another detective in the game? Quit being vage, dernit!

I think for grammar purposes.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, that explains it. EF actually saw the conversion. Sheesh, EF, you're killing us. There are three pages of threads dedicated to your vagueness.

Sorry, had a frustrated wife waiting for me to go out with her and saw the PM and needed to post. Sorry about the vagueness. One of those things that in my mind I was clearer than I actually was (guess that's why you should never edit your own writing).

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yes that was the exact answer I was expecting-that he either watched the conversion take place last night, or saw MrBug somehow change after his magic number kicked in on his conversion chance with his scans.

Now if someone else comes out today and claims detective my head might blow up.

unvote eaglefan
vote mrbug

I'm the detective. I kid I kid, just thought someones head blowing up might be funny.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Yes that was the exact answer I was expecting-that he either watched the conversion take place last night, or saw MrBug somehow change after his magic number kicked in on his conversion chance with his scans.

So that sounds like the way the role worked last time, Thomkal? This sounds legit to you?

[Chief Rum]

If we buy EF, we also see something about spirits here. Brings to mind the Lantern of Substance.

If my guess is right that the lantern banishes things of "insubstance", presumeably it would reconvert corrupted individuals who attack the holder.

Also, if EF is telling the truth, then Bug was telling the truth before last night, which means he is the seer. And since there were two NKs last night, I would guess he was not a targeted conversion but fell to his own use of his powers (the chance to be corrupted).

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

EF, why do you say "a detective"? Do you have knowledge of another detective in the game? Quit being vage, dernit!

what do you say vage?

[hoopsguy]

I can vouch for doing nothing suspicious on whatever night EF chose to view me

This explanation is about as good as it gets, from a Lightbringer perspective. It suggests that we can value MrBug's scans for the first three days and provides us a wolf.

I'm still anxious about wolves getting 2 kills + conversion last night. I would feel much better about this if someone said that they had initiated a villager kill. But absent that info coming forward, I guess it comes down to believing EFs explanation.

If we lynch Bug, and he is shown to be villager/Lightbringer/seer, then we can move ahead with EF + Narcizo as wolves the next two days. But we would lose the seer in the process. Still, I think that is a trade that I would take.

I'm not 100% locked in, but I'm certainly starting with the idea of
VOTE MRBUG

[MrBug708]

Sad

[EagleFan]

Gotta go get the girls. Will try to jump back online after tennis and before poker.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'm still anxious about wolves getting 2 kills + conversion last night. I would feel much better about this if someone said that they had initiated a villager kill. But absent that info coming forward, I guess it comes down to believing EFs explanation.

See above my guess on what happened. That's assuming CF is not a villager kill, of course. Which is still possible, with items out there doing who knows what.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I can vouch for doing nothing suspicious on whatever night EF chose to view me

This explanation is about as good as it gets, from a Lightbringer perspective. It suggests that we can value MrBug's scans for the first three days and provides us a wolf.

I'm still anxious about wolves getting 2 kills + conversion last night. I would feel much better about this if someone said that they had initiated a villager kill. But absent that info coming forward, I guess it comes down to believing EFs explanation.

If we lynch Bug, and he is shown to be villager/Lightbringer/seer, then we can move ahead with EF + Narcizo as wolves the next two days. But we would lose the seer in the process. Still, I think that is a trade that I would take.

I'm not 100% locked in, but I'm certainly starting with the idea of
VOTE MRBUG

Honestly that isn't a bad thought

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Gotta go get the girls. Will try to jump back online after tennis and before poker.

Jeez, well thanks for squeezing us in!

I'm off to water polo folks!

[MrBug708]

Not that it matters much anymore but I didn't make a scan on the first night but made two on the second night.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Not that it matters much anymore but I didn't make a scan on the first night but made two on the second night.

lol what?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Not that it matters much anymore but I didn't make a scan on the first night but made two on the second night.

First of all, how could htat even be possible. Second of all, why wouldn't you tell us that before? You were specifically asked a number of times about the timing of your scans since it matters IMMENSELY in this game.

[hoopsguy]

Bug, if you are the seer and it took two separate wolves to shaft you today you've more than done your job.

But I've been the one person in a 2-vs-1 scenario before in a WW game - I think it was Abe's first game as a moderator. If you are the wolf in that spot it is tough to get off the hook. Normally if you have two separate people coming at you with different information (one you created yourself, with a fake seer scan, assuming you are a wolf) then spin control gets really hard really fast.

[Autumn]

All three of these individuals only made their reveals when they were on the hotseat. So frankly they all stink, to me. Which ones stinks most?

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I'm the detective. I kid I kid, just thought someones head blowing up might be funny.

Not if it blows up all over you its not.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Autumn

First of all, how could htat even be possible. Second of all, why wouldn't you tell us that before? You were specifically asked a number of times about the timing of your scans since it matters IMMENSELY in this game.

For all intents and purposes...I latest out the order as needed.

As for how I was able...call it a flaw in werewolf mechanics and a mistake

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

So that sounds like the way the role worked last time, Thomkal? This sounds legit to you?

yes it sounds legit to me, but quite frankly I'm not sure it matters if its legit or not-if we lynch MrBug tonight because of it and he turns out good, we have a no doubt evil in Eaglefan.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Not that it matters much anymore but I didn't make a scan on the first night but made two on the second night.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Gotta go get the girls. Will try to jump back online after tennis and before poker.

You need to stop having a life like the rest of us.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Autumn

All three of these individuals only made their reveals when they were on the hotseat. So frankly they all stink, to me. Which ones stinks most?

Every comment I made has been come to be accepted. But as hoops said...two wolves will go. Narizco is bad...but I would go after ef first. When I am lynched nothing can save narizco then. I also believe ef is a convert or a terrible villager.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Every comment I made has been come to be accepted. But as hoops said...two wolves will go. Narizco is bad...but I would go after ef first. When I am lynched nothing can save narizco then. I also believe ef is a convert or a terrible villager.

If you are good, how could EF be anything but a wolf?

[Autumn]

Well, at this point sheriff is our most important role so no way I take a chance of lynching Narcizo over the rest. I guess I'd rather lynch a seer, given all the conversions and such, or certainly detective.

unvote narcizo

[Autumn]

And if I'm going to vote EF, that would mean Bug is telling the truth, in which cause I might as well vote Narc. lol

So I guess i have to vote Bug, as backwards as that feels.

vote mrbug

[Commo_Soldier]

Well I'm going to get some house cleaning done, but will check back every hour or so.

[J23]

unvote Narcizo
vote MrBug

I don't see 2 scans in a night happening.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

I have a couple minutes so I will tell you what I have been doing.

I am a detective.

I came close to asking to be replaced on day one when I thought that I missed the deadline (since I was going to be busy and unavailable much of the game I was afraid that deadline was going to be rough for me). Thought I had missed putting in an order but then saw I had until 2 AM. Hate the feeling like I just screwed up and cost the village potential information.


As it turns out I learned nothing on night one. I followed Danny and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 2 I chose hoops and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 3 I chose The Jackal and saw nothing suspicious.

Night 4 I went with bug and saw what was described as a mysterious shadowy figure hovering above bug and then saw something that appeared to be an evil spirit enter bugs body. Said that he suddenly looked my direction but it was uncertain if he saw me, just that there was hate in his eyes as he glared in my direction.

This is enough for me

unvote eagle
vote bug

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by Autumn

And if I'm going to vote EF, that would mean Bug is telling the truth, in which cause I might as well vote Narc. lol

So I guess i have to vote Bug, as backwards as that feels.

vote mrbug

I'm leaving my vote on EF, and I don't think finding out that Bug is lying clears EF. In the position he was in it's an easy call to give up a converted seer to buy trust.

I'm also not sold on EF's story as detective, the role says that observing someone will tell you what that person has done for the evening. To me that says you can see what action they performed, not necessarily what was done to them.

[SnDvls]

dola - I too am a detective and that wording is almost verbatium what I got on nights I "observed" people

I observed Gram night 1
Hoops night 2
autumn night 3
hoops night 4

all came back as seeing nothing suspicious

[SnDvls]

our bad guys are in this group right here

Mr.Bug, J23, Thomkal, Commo Soldier and dubb

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I'm leaving my vote on EF, and I don't think finding out that Bug is lying clears EF. In the position he was in it's an easy call to give up a converted seer to buy trust.

I'm also not sold on EF's story as detective, the role says that observing someone will tell you what that person has done for the evening. To me that says you can see what action they performed, not necessarily what was done to them.

That's true, but if the seer converted himself, I'm presuming that's what he's seen. If the wolves converted bug, I agree, he would have just seen bug "scanning," or casting a spell or whatever it's supposed to look like.

[Autumn]

Whoa.