The Stock Market thread

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Tariffs are why we don't have an increase in EVs. The literal thing you're defending.

Tariffs are the reason why we don't have cheap Chinese EVs. The Infrastructure bill should have increased domestic EV build/adoption (but I am on record in saying I didn't think Mayor Pete did a great job).

I'm arguing against dependence on China. I am arguing for increased self/allied-reliance in strategic areas of which EV/infrastructure is one aspect.

China is 20% of their revenue and a bigger share of their profits. The CEO of Apple just announced investing more in China. They're moving some manufacturing to India and Brazil (I guess they don't count in the game geopolitics for some reason) but that's mainly for costs as China shifts to a more consumer led economy.

My statement was simply ...

Apple is moving away from China (delinking). They are betting on India and that's a smart move.

See CNBC article below ...

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/04/20/appl...expansion.html

For years, Tim Cook has been bullish on India. Now, he’s betting big on the South Asian giant as Apple shifts its focus away from China and expands its footprint in India.

Still, analysts told CNBC the iPhone-maker’s dependency on China will remain for years to come.

There’s potential for India to “become the next China” for Apple production, but it could take as long as a decade before it happens, said Martin Yang, senior analyst of emerging technologies at Oppenheimer & Co.

Apple’s efforts to move its assembly of products from China became more urgent in the last five years as U.S.-China trade tensions intensified, and supply chain disruptions caused by Beijing’s zero-Covid policy unraveled.

And again, there is no "delinking" in a global economy. Apple and other American companies are owned by people from throughout the world. China has ownership stakes in all these companies and there is no way to prevent that.

There is no delinking from the global economy, true. There is delinking from China, it won't be 100% or even near 100%, but the trend is to reduce investments in China. Maybe your definition of delinking is different from mine?

There are multitudes of articles that report this. Google on "are us companies pulling out of china".

Do you know what the word isolationist means? I'm literally calling for the opposite here. You're the one who wants to wall off our economy like an old communist country.

I want to reduce our dependency on specifically China and

and be more selective in increasing trade and relationship with other countries, spread our investments around.

Yes, I know what the world "isolationist" means. Your criteria to be involved or only care about the persecution of another group of people "if it directly impacts me" or "if only your tax money pays for it" provides insight how you would engage the world.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It is actually a little fun to watch these two go at it.

You are welcome!

Always glad to have a discussion on immigration, China and cars.

[RainMaker]

Why do geopolitics not matter with India, Brazil, Mexico or Canada?

And they are betting on India because China is becoming a consumer economy and too expensive to manufacture in. They aren't doing it to "de-link" or whatever you think is happening. Just shifting from a country that makes stuff to a country that buys stuff.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Why do geopolitics not matter with India, Brazil, Mexico or Canada?

They do matter.

We were talking specifically about China because I view China as the #1 threat in the "war". If we want to expand the discussion to those countries, happy to do it. I'm not happy with India either but they are not near as much of a threat as China.

And they are betting on India because China is becoming a consumer economy and too expensive to manufacture in.

This is true but not the whole story. In addition to cheaper to manufacture things, Apple is trying to diversify to reduce risk/dependence in China, and also to increase market share in India (to offset the loss in market share in China).

They aren't doing it to "de-link" or whatever you think is happening. Just shifting from a company that makes stuff to a country that buys stuff.

I don't know what to tell you. Maybe it's the word "de-link", how about "de-coupling"? Same difference to me.

We are talking more than just Apple (e.g. again, think broader). Google on "are us companies pulling out of china" or "is us decoupling from china". Plenty of articles that will educate you some.

Or, tell you what. How about you provide me articles (non Twitter/X/Tiktok) that shows US is NOT in the process of decoupling from China? Then we can talk about facts vs opinions.