Random Thoughts That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Go Here

[Ghost Econ]

So I have a tipping question.

Wife and I went to a local sit down BBQ restaurant last night. Sat at the table about 5 minutes before someone came over with the free water. About 5 minutes later the manager comes over and gets our drink order. Evidently our waitress was busy with a large group.

Manager brings our drinks and we order since we know what we want. 10 minutes later, not-our-waitress refills my drink. Waitress then pops by to check.

5 minutes later our food is brought to the table, again not by our waitress.

Over the next 20 minutes our waitress checks on us once with quick "everything ok", then grabs a box and the check for us. She then clears the table and takes the payment.

That's all she did. She didn't take the order, get or fill drinks, bring food. She was basically a glorified busboy.

My question is, what should we have tipped?

My argument is the service as a whole was fine, but it's also not my job to tip her for fine service when her particular service was bad. If she was busy with another table to provide them adequate service, it's on them to tip her accordingly and not me.

I also understand some places pool server tips, so if service was adequate then the tip should be adequate. But I don't think that should be up to me to figure out how they distribute tips.

What say the fof intelligencia?

I have no idea what we tipped btw. I left my wallet in the car so my wife paid and I left it up to her.

[Lathum]

Tip what you normally tip and be happy the restaurant has competent management that they recognized your service could suffer because of a larger party and that they did something about it.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

So I have a tipping question.

Wife and I went to a local sit down BBQ restaurant last night. Sat at the table about 5 minutes before someone came over with the free water. About 5 minutes later the manager comes over and gets our drink order. Evidently our waitress was busy with a large group.

Manager brings our drinks and we order since we know what we want. 10 minutes later, not-our-waitress refills my drink. Waitress then pops by to check.

5 minutes later our food is brought to the table, again not by our waitress.

Over the next 20 minutes our waitress checks on us once with quick "everything ok", then grabs a box and the check for us. She then clears the table and takes the payment.

That's all she did. She didn't take the order, get or fill drinks, bring food. She was basically a glorified busboy.

My question is, what should we have tipped?

My argument is the service as a whole was fine, but it's also not my job to tip her for fine service when her particular service was bad. If she was busy with another table to provide them adequate service, it's on them to tip her accordingly and not me.

I also understand some places pool server tips, so if service was adequate then the tip should be adequate. But I don't think that should be up to me to figure out how they distribute tips.

What say the fof intelligencia?

I have no idea what we tipped btw. I left my wallet in the car so my wife paid and I left it up to her.

I would probably still tip normally (20%), but depending on how bad, maybe go down to 15%. It would take something extreme like outright offensive and aggressive behavior for me to stiff a server. My thinking is that servers are paid less than minimum wage. I've had many days in my life where I've screwed up at work and I've never been docked pay for it. No one deserves to make less than minimum wage, even if they did a bad job on what could've just been a really bad day.

[molson]

I don't how much of a bad restaurant experience is the server's fault, or how the tips are distributed. And I don't want to do a whole performance evaluation every time I go out to eat. So I just tip mostly the same every time, modified a bit by whatever is easier math-wise, with some extra if I'm in a bigger group, or if we order a ton of different stuff.

[Coffee Warlord]

Restaurant managers might not be making much more than the servers, either, depending on how high up they are. A just regular manager is often just a server/bartender with way more work and responsibility, making a couple bucks an hour more. They often get tipped out as well.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Restaurant managers might not be making much more than the servers, either, depending on how high up they are. A just regular manager is often just a server/bartender with way more work and responsibility, making a couple bucks an hour more. They often get tipped out as well.

When I bartended I made way more than the managers did except the GM. They asked me to go into management and I was like, lol, nope. I can make double what a manager makes working 30-35 hours 4 days a week. I'm good.

[Edward64]

Pretty much tip whenever I’m in a restaurant. 15-20% normally but do remember less at some buffets where it was literally you do your own.

When I’m overseas, it feels weird not to tip.

I always have to google to see what countries are okay or not okay with tips

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

My question is, what should we have tipped? What say the fof intelligencia?

As I understand the scenario my default would have been "normal tip".

My rationale, I guess, is that the manager covered it without reassigning the table therefore their effort is done "on behalf of" the assigned waitress. How they split it up or deal with it falls under "their business not mine".

Fwiw, I lean toward the tougher end of the tipping judgement scale so it's not like I'm accused often of being overly lenient or understanding.

[RainMaker]

Speaking of tipping, what are your thoughts on carryout tipping? I haven't done it but I do see it pop up on receipts or in the app. Feels weird to tip on a carryout order, but I imagine some people are.

[thesloppy]

I always tip the same. The suggestion that I should be actively judging service and mathing my tip is giving me anxiety.

[stevew]

What is Coke Zero Move supposed to taste like? Kinda gives me jelly beans vibes.

[stevew]

Getting pina colada vibes maybe

[flere-imsaho]

The amount I tip is usually directly related to how complex my spouse made her order.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Speaking of tipping, what are your thoughts on carryout tipping? I haven't done it but I do see it pop up on receipts or in the app. Feels weird to tip on a carryout order, but I imagine some people are.

That's almost always a big ol "go fuck yourself" for me.

Exception might be made if I'm picking up something that's unusually complex to pack or I see it's packed with extraordinary care but generally speaking that's a big ol nope.

If we're down to somebody expecting extra money beyond their salary to throw 2 burgers in a bag, we're at the point I need to be eating somewhere else.

I have a similar reaction to my current "favorite" gtfo tip scam: delivery services autofiguring the recommended tip based on a number that includes the service fees and delivery charges. Look, I'm already inclined to overtip (IMO) into the 20 -25 percent range for the driver based on the amount of food ordered ... but the company getting a fee doesn't make my order one iota more complex/difficult. That feels like pissing on my leg & trying to convince me it's rain.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Tip what you normally tip and be happy the restaurant has competent management that they recognized your service could suffer because of a larger party and that they did something about it.

This.

Re: carryout. Nope, don't tip there. Not that I ever get carryout for anything other than coffee.

[thesloppy]

Do you tip at food carts? I guess the significance of that is highly regional, but there's a ton of food carts around here. The pricing of carts vs. restaurants could warrant another conversation.

A cart is essentially carryout, you're not getting any of the restaurant service, but it's also hard to say the person who served you isn't deserving of a tip if they're also the person who just cooked your meal in a tiny hotbox. I pretty much tip at the same rate as always, but as I implied upthread I don't really think too much about it.

[stevew]

I kinda just reallocate any cash tips I’ve received and use them to give to take out people. But I don’t feel some obligation to do it.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by stevew

I kinda just reallocate any cash tips I’ve accumulated to take out people. But I don’t feel some obligation to do it.

Man, it's early and I completely misread this as if you don't tip anyone, but you save the money you would tip to pay for hit men. But you aren't THAT committed to it.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Man, it's early and I completely misread this as if you don't tip anyone, but you save the money you would tip to pay for hit men. But you aren't THAT committed to it.

I read it the same way.

[molson]

I tip at least a little everywhere because I don't want them to spit in my food.

[miami_fan]

There is something hilarious to me that my mother is overjoyed that I am cooking fish today. It is not because it is Ash Wednesday or that it is religiously significant to her. She is overjoyed because she raised us to not eat meat on Ash Wednesday and that was because her mother (who was religious) did not cook or eat meat on Ash Wednesday. I am carrying on the tradition points for me. My sister is doing the same.

I don't feel the need to tell her that a friend brought some fresh fish over yesterday and I just left some out to cook today. As far as my sister goes, well she is a pescatarian so that was easy enough for her.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

I read it the same way.

I think it would make a great novel.

[molson]

I wonder if the hit man industry is seeing similar inflation as other industries.

[JPhillips]

I don't want to think this, but I'm slightly concerned that the anti-semitic protest last night at Broadway's Parade was really done by the producers to get some free publicity and a sense of us against the darkness.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FB Memories gave me a real gem today, though for some reason I couldn't just hit share on it over there, I'll give you the copy & paste version

For some reason I can't share the original version of this, my comment about an article concerning the start of Burger King delivery in the U.K. So never let it be said that I only acknowledge my comments when they're proven right. I'm not sure anything I've ever posted aged much worse than this one
-----------------------
Jon Loveless
February 23, 2016
Only in the U.K. (for now), I do have a tough time seeing this concept working in the U.S. though. It sounds okay to me at first but then I remember that BK is _already_ on the higher end of the fastfood price spectrum, adding delivery charges would have to have pretty limited appeal I think.

[stevew]

Comment aged about as well as a fast food order does on the way to a customer’s house

[JonInMiddleGA]

... though I tried Chili's sliders the other night & they were pretty close to dine-in (not a big fan in general but they turned out okay for delivery)

Well I jinxed the hell outta this. Ordered the same tonight.

They arrived after about 45 minutes. Apparently they spent 43 of those 45 minutes on the grill.

They were ... briquets? They sounded like hardtack when I smacked them against each other. They were so burned to a crisp that a) the four little patties were actually just two, each pair fused together and b) 1/2 of one was missing entirely, as I told the poor manager "I can only assume the missing part is on your grill as ash"

It was without a doubt THE most inedible thing I've gotten anywhere at any time in the entire delivery area. Their grill ain't the only thing that needs to be "fired".

edti to explain: yeah, I screwed up & edited my original post that was a reply I was trying to quote.

[flere-imsaho]

Got this from our temple today:

You may have already heard about a security threat to the Jewish community labeled as a "Day of Hate" and set to occur this Saturday, February 25. The threat is a call for acts of vandalism which can be recorded and posted on social media. Law enforcement and Jewish organizations have been tracking this threat as it circulated on the internet in past weeks.

The threats are undefined and have no specific targets. As such, law enforcement throughout the metropolitan area recommend heightened vigilance. Additionally, the XXXXX Police Department is adding regular patrols to visit synagogues in the community on Saturday.

As always, our armed security team will be in place for all of this weekend's events, including Shabbat, Torah Study, and Family School.

Our staff, private guards, and local police force take the security of our community very seriously. You can help, too. If you see anything or anyone suspicious, don't hesitate to let our staff, clergy, or security guards know.

Yay.

[sterlingice]

Is there something like a sneaker wikipedia? Somewhere I could look up what the Jordan 12 looked like or a list of all the colorways the Diamond Turf came in?

SI

[stevew]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Is there something like a sneaker wikipedia? Somewhere I could look up what the Jordan 12 looked like or a list of all the colorways the Diamond Turf came in?

SI

Usually just look them up on StockX. Will have the majority of what you want to see. I think there’s a lot of old eastbay stuff out there you can look though as well

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Got this from our temple today:



Yay.

What a disgrace we have become.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Got this from our temple today:



Yay.

Uh, do we really need to provide the special category of protections for this one group? Why should there be extra security patrols and more of my tax dollars to protect one specific group above other groups? That sounds divisive to me.



To be clear, this is me being extremely sarcastic and bitter that this type of shit is still happening and that there are those that think it is not a big deal. I truly hope that nothing happens and no one is hurt or has to deal with this BS on the 25th or any day after that.

[RainMaker]

Is there any consumer experience worse than buying a car at a dealership?

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Is there any consumer experience worse than buying a car at a dealership?

yes

[RainMaker]

I need to hear it. I spent 3 hours in a dealership watching them try to slip weird things on to the bill and scam me on a loan rate. I was exhausted by the end.

[Ksyrup]

I haven't had a bad car buying experience since the late 90s (my first real car purchase) when my dad and I walked out on a purchase as they were bringing the washed car up to the front. Since then, I've had my own financing and trade-in offers ready and most of the price details were ironed out over email before we ever stepped foot on a car lot. I've also driven anywhere from 3 to 6-7 hours away to get the car with the right price, color, features, etc., we want.

It's been virtually painless for nearly 25 years and about 10 purchases (both new and used).

As someone in the warranty industry, I do enjoy the F&I cube or whatever they call the room they take you into. But that's more of a perverse sort of pleasure I take in having knowledge superior to 99.999% of the people they usually deal with. That makes the whole process even shorter than the typical teeth-pulling that often happens.

[flere-imsaho]

My wife's purchase of her EV Volvo two summers ago was surprisingly painless, but then we didn't finance, which is where I think much of the pain and agony comes in.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I haven't had a bad car buying experience since the late 90s (my first real car purchase) when my dad and I walked out on a purchase as they were bringing the washed car up to the front. Since then, I've had my own financing and trade-in offers ready and most of the price details were ironed out over email before we ever stepped foot on a car lot. I've also driven anywhere from 3 to 6-7 hours away to get the car with the right price, color, features, etc., we want.

It's been virtually painless for nearly 25 years and about 10 purchases (both new and used).

As someone in the warranty industry, I do enjoy the F&I cube or whatever they call the room they take you into. But that's more of a perverse sort of pleasure I take in having knowledge superior to 99.999% of the people they usually deal with. That makes the whole process even shorter than the typical teeth-pulling that often happens.

I haven't had much experience in car buying which is my fault. My previous purchases were through Carmax which sets the price in stone and is fairly painless to deal with. I didn't finance with those though. I probably shouldn't have financed here.

My issue is with trying to slide things in without you noticing. First it was the finance rate which they tried to peg at 7%. My credit score was over 800 and I just said no I'll finance it on my own through my bank. They then kept coming down to a rate I could work with.

The part that pissed me off most was when they tried to slip in a $500 "VIN etch" fee or whatever. Total garbage. Told him no when I saw it as I was about to sign. Told me it was standard and I said then I don't want the car. He took it off.

Just feels like a weird uncomfortable consumer experience where they are trying to scam you and you're dodging those scams. Next time I'll do some more research and be better prepared.

[Edward64]

New car buying has been relatively painless for me.

I get pre-approved for $X with Y%

I use TrueCar and print out a fair/good deal for the car and options I want

I use my HP 12C to figure out approx monthly payments

Walk into dealership and show them what I have. I tell them they have my financing if they can beat my Y% by .25%. And I’ll buy the car for the TrueCar price.

They do try to sell BS add ons but I say no and just point to what I want based on the TrueCar options and pricing.

When I meet the financing guy, my 12C payments should be close to what they calculate. If so, then I’m good to sign.

Used car purchases are admittedly more ‘involved’.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Finally tracked down the Zero version of Dr. Pepper Strawberries and Cream. I approve.

I found the 12 pack cans for like $9. I should’ve bought some but didn’t.

Bought 2 liter Coke Zeros with buy 2 get, 2 free. Basically comes out to about $1.80 which is reasonable.

[HerRealName]

The first time I bought a car I missed one of the scam charges and it's haunted me ever since. I'm good at buying cars now but it's still a horrible experience every single time.

[molson]

For a while I did a thing someone told me about where you do all negotiations by email. Decide your car, decide your price, email 10 dealerships that car and price and buy it from whoever meets it. (And then obviously try to be on guard for the scams after that).

At some point in the last few years they started refusing to give me quotes over email. So I'd move on to someone else. But then they all would. I had to alter my technique a bit. But it still helps to decide on 1 exact car, at one price, before going in.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Just feels like a weird uncomfortable consumer experience where they are trying to scam you and you're dodging those scams.

I don't know that I've ever had any new car experience that could be described any other way.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I haven't had much experience in car buying which is my fault. My previous purchases were through Carmax which sets the price in stone and is fairly painless to deal with. I didn't finance with those though. I probably shouldn't have financed here.

My issue is with trying to slide things in without you noticing. First it was the finance rate which they tried to peg at 7%. My credit score was over 800 and I just said no I'll finance it on my own through my bank. They then kept coming down to a rate I could work with.

The part that pissed me off most was when they tried to slip in a $500 "VIN etch" fee or whatever. Total garbage. Told him no when I saw it as I was about to sign. Told me it was standard and I said then I don't want the car. He took it off.

Just feels like a weird uncomfortable consumer experience where they are trying to scam you and you're dodging those scams. Next time I'll do some more research and be better prepared.

I just come straight out by email and tell them exactly what I want, that I'm shopping half-dozen dealerships within 150 miles of where I live, and if they cut through the BS and give me a fair price, I'll make it as quick and painless for both of us as they want. Sometimes the salesperson can't resist being a car salesperson and goes into old school sales mode, but some of the dealers with dedicated online sales people - especially dealers who do a fair amount of volume - are willing to take a quick and easy sale without wasting time they can spend on the next sucker who walks through the door.

[cuervo72]

I've done that in the past too. Not that I like doing it (I hate car buying in general), but it worked ok. Of course this was back in 2014. The local dealership did try to dick with me though; quoted one thing online, they told me to come into the dealership, then they tried selling me something else completely (and the "how much do you want to pay per month?" shit). I just walked out. I mean, there are how many Hyundai dealerships in VA/DC/MD/PA? Don't screw around, I can go somewhere else. (Place I ended up buying from was in Harrisburg; they had a car advertised online, it was sold, but they brought in a similar one from a sister dealership they had. Only problem was that they had to drive it in from Jersey and put a few miles on it.)

[GrantDawg]

When I was selling cars, we were told tell people whatever we needed to get people in the door. We even had people that ordered vehicles, and they would call them in to try to switch vehicles on them. Such a scummy business. Absolutely no reason for it to be that way.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I haven't had much experience in car buying which is my fault. My previous purchases were through Carmax which sets the price in stone and is fairly painless to deal with. I didn't finance with those though. I probably shouldn't have financed here.

My issue is with trying to slide things in without you noticing. First it was the finance rate which they tried to peg at 7%. My credit score was over 800 and I just said no I'll finance it on my own through my bank. They then kept coming down to a rate I could work with.

The part that pissed me off most was when they tried to slip in a $500 "VIN etch" fee or whatever. Total garbage. Told him no when I saw it as I was about to sign. Told me it was standard and I said then I don't want the car. He took it off.

Just feels like a weird uncomfortable consumer experience where they are trying to scam you and you're dodging those scams. Next time I'll do some more research and be better prepared.

I bought a Bronco in May of 2021 and it was a smooth process. The dealership was straight up from the start. I placed the order in January, they told me to the dollar what I'd owe, told me what they'd give me for trade in, encouraged me do a private sale if I wanted to maximize the value of what I was trading in, put the $1k reservation fee straight to the cost of the Bronco (a lot dealers were pocketing the 1k at the time), and waived the $1.5k destination fee some dealerships were charging.

The experience I had prior to that was the exact opposite. We were buying my son a car at a different dealership and they initially tried to charge us more than what the car was listed for online, tried to sell us on every upcharge imaginable, and tried to give us a rate about a point and a half above what we could have qualified for anywhere else. I had to argue with them that with a 800-ish credit rating there was no way we were looking at 4.5-5.0% interest at that time. After the 3rd time going back to his office, their finance guy came back with someone magically offering us 3% and we closed out the deal.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just come straight out by email and tell them exactly what I want, that I'm shopping half-dozen dealerships within 150 miles of where I live, and if they cut through the BS and give me a fair price, I'll make it as quick and painless for both of us as they want. Sometimes the salesperson can't resist being a car salesperson and goes into old school sales mode, but some of the dealers with dedicated online sales people - especially dealers who do a fair amount of volume - are willing to take a quick and easy sale without wasting time they can spend on the next sucker who walks through the door.

I've found this moderately true. I've let my email fingers do the walking the last couple of cars and had it mostly painless, especially since we have a lot of dealership options in Houston. Again, brought financing and trade numbers with me so if they wanted to haggle, I'll just do it elsewhere. Usually, the online salesperon is cool with just talking to you, maybe doing a test drive, and doing an hour of paperwork for the $500 markup or whatever versus trying to screw you for more when you've already done your homework and are willing to leave.

Funny story about our last car. Once I've narrowed it down to the car, I have a spreadsheet with trim levels, dealers, prices, VINs, when I emailed, etc. One of the guys said via email "hey, you're not getting below (I forget the exact number) $20K on this car - that's the best I can do". When you get that kind of response, you mark them off the list and move on to other leads. I got the car from another dealership for about $2K below that. We were a little in a hurry because of some circumstances and the dealership we got it from didn't have our trim level in stock. So he asked if we cared about color - which we didn't - except to say we don't want black (hot in Houston) or a couple of odd colors. He then said something I didn't understand about "let me see what I can trade for around town". Later, I saw online that apparently, this is a kindof common thing between dealerships - trading inventory from one dealer to another to get what you want for a customer. We roll in there Saturday morning, ready to get the car. Signing the paperwork for $18K, I notice it's the VIN from the place that couldn't budge below $20K and when we got out to the car, I noticed they had scratched off the sticker on the back of the car from the other place and added their decal instead. There was something a bit satisfying about that.

SI

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by stevew

What is Coke Zero Move supposed to taste like? Kinda gives me jelly beans vibes.

i don't want my movements that color

[Ksyrup]

I heard about that one but haven't tasted it yet. I'm still in love with the new Dr. Pepper Strawberries and Cream. That one is a HR.