December Console Sales Numbers

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Japan is a smaller part of the world's console and handheld game market than USA or Europe but a much larger proportion of the games are made in that country. Nintendo, Capcom, Square-Enix, Konami, some of the best developers are Japanese. These companies aren't completely insular and do take notice of games that are far more successful abroad that at home (Dead Rising, Trauma Center, etc.) but what works at home does have an effect on what Japanese companies decide to make next. Look at how much the PS3 outsells the 360 in Japan and how there's more PS3 exclusives being announced despite the 360 having sold millions more worldwide.

Even if I don't count Nintendo products, around half the games (for consoles and handhelds, all my PC games are made in USA/Europe) I buy are made in Japan so trends over there do affect the games I get to play down the road.

Good thing I have a Wii.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

*snicker* Any chance you get, I guess...

SI

Snicker all you want, but the market trends bear it out. Nintendo could put out a 480p version of Tetris and it would sell 250K the first day. I'm not sure why Nintendo fans take offense to that kind of statement. It's a testament to the quality of the first-party Nintendo titles. I'm not a fan of all of their franchises, but when Nintendo puts out a game, you know that it's going to have very few, if any, bugs and is going to likely provide hours upon hours of great entertainment. The problem right now is that third-party developers don't put out games that match that standard.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some game news. First, several sites are reporting that 4 new games will be announced for the Xbox 360, reportedly all 360 exclusives. Three of them aren't too surprising, but a 360-exclusive DMC5 might raise some eyebrows if true...........

Forza 3
Dead or Alive 5
Gears of War 2
Halo: Chronicles.

Sony's bringing out their first 'classic' games. All will retail for $30 initially.

Resistance: FOM
Warhawk
Folklore
Ridge Racer 7
Ninja Gaiden Sigma
Gundam: Target in Sight

The PS3 new SKU debate continues internally at Sony. Sounds like even Sony isn't totally sure what their next move will be in regards to any new SKU's..........

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/01/so...-sku-strategy/

[Kodos]

Damn. I knew Resistance's price was about to fall, but I bought it anyway. Shoulda grabbed Ratchet instead...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Kodos

Damn. I knew Resistance's price was about to fall, but I bought it anyway. Shoulda grabbed Ratchet instead...

It's not dropping for at least 2 months (supposedly late March), so you would have had to wait awhile.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Snicker all you want, but the market trends bear it out. Nintendo could put out a 480p version of Tetris and it would sell 250K the first day. I'm not sure why Nintendo fans take offense to that kind of statement. It's a testament to the quality of the first-party Nintendo titles. I'm not a fan of all of their franchises, but when Nintendo puts out a game, you know that it's going to have very few, if any, bugs and is going to likely provide hours upon hours of great entertainment. The problem right now is that third-party developers don't put out games that match that standard.

That's what I don't get about the whole 3rd-party thing. It's not Nintendo's fault that most games they release are guaranteed to be as close to bug-free as possible, and really fun to play. I know what I'm getting from them. There was a stretch last generation where Ubisoft was in a similar position with me too. Almost every game they released in that stretch was solid and fun.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

That's what I don't get about the whole 3rd-party thing. It's not Nintendo's fault that most games they release are guaranteed to be as close to bug-free as possible, and really fun to play. I know what I'm getting from them. There was a stretch last generation where Ubisoft was in a similar position with me too. Almost every game they released in that stretch was solid and fun.

As I mentioned before, Nintendo is their own worst enemy. Their quality is so good that they clean up the sales on their own console and leave little other consumer money for the third party games. I'm not sure Nintendo can do much about it.

[MJ4H]

They could start releasing crappy, buggy software I guess.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Their quality is so good that they clean up the sales on their own console and leave little other consumer money for the third party games.

I completely disagree with this. If there were decent 3rd party titles not selling well, you'd be right, but there aren't. Most of the 3rd party titles are absolutely abysmal.


Theres plenty of money out there, the 3rd party developers are just afraid to spend some actual developement time on things, instead of just slapping together a shoddy port.

The Squaresoft games are always great, but they didn't kill all the other 3rd party games on the ps2.

[MJ4H]

There are definitely decent to great 3rd party games that aren't selling well. The best example of this is Zack and Wiki.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

There are definitely decent to great 3rd party games that aren't selling well. The best example of this is Zack and Wiki.

No More Heroes is another recent, good example.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Deal of the Day over at Amazon. Warhawk w/ Bluetooth headset for $40. Good deal if you are a PS3 owner and don't have it yet.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...sim/slickdeals

[MikeVic]

Zack and Wiki is such a damn difficult game for me right now.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

There are definitely decent to great 3rd party games that aren't selling well. The best example of this is Zack and Wiki.

Zak and Wiki is selling poorly because its got a poor title, and is a really off-beat game. Its a risky game to start with.


Its not selling poorly because its third party

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No More Heroes is another recent, good example.

Game has been out for what, A month? and isn't a franchise game, and has very little advertising....

[MJ4H]

Just to be clear, these games were presented as evidence that your statement

Originally Posted by Synovia

If there were decent 3rd party titles not selling well, you'd be right, but there aren't.

was incorrect. Citing reasons for it not selling well des not change that. Especially when your reasons are very poor.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Just to be clear, these games were presented as evidence that your statement



was incorrect. Citing reasons for it not selling well des not change that. Especially when your reasons are very poor.

So we've got two games as evidense? One thats totally non-typical (Zak and Wiki, with AWFUL marketing and packaging) and one thats recieved just as many awful reviews as good ones (No More Heroes).

Real strong proof there.


I'm sure I could find a bunch of ps2/ps3/360 games that were good, and didn't sell well. Good games selling poorly isn't just system dependant.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

EA provides their console sales estimates for 2008. They expect the Wii to outsell the PS3 by 3.5 million units and outsell the 360 by 7 million units. They also expect the Nintendo DS to double the sales numbers of the PSP.........

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32686

EA expects PS3 to outsell 360 in 2008
Phil Elliott 09:22 (BST) 04/02/2008
Wii to dominate console sales with Sony's flagship console cementing second place

Electronic Arts has released estimates of what it thinks will be the range of hardware sales in North America and Europe through 2008, and while the Wii unsurprisingly leads, it's the PlayStation 3 that will hold a strong second place.

That will, according to the estimates, be particularly true in Europe, where EA expects the PlayStation 3 to sell between 5 and 6 million units across the year, compared to just 1.5-2.5 million for the Xbox 360.

That means that while the company thinks the two will tie in North America on 4.5 to 5.5 million unit sales, the two sets of numbers combined give Sony's flagship console a compelling 3.5 million lead.

The report predicts the Nintendo Wii will win the year, with a combined total of between 12 and 14 million units sold, while the PlayStation 2 will continue on its long tail drop-off, shifting between 3.9 and 4.9 million units.

That yields a total home console sales estimate for the two regions of between 31.4 and 38.4 million units.

The report also gives estimates for the year's handheld sales as well, noting the company's belief that it expects the Nintendo DS to outsell the PlayStation Portable by over 2-to-1.

According to the numbers the DS should shift between 14 and 16 million units, while the PSP will sell around 6 to 8 million units, giving a combined handheld total for the year of between 20 and 24 million.

Combined console estimates for 2008 are as follows:

Nintendo Wii: 12-14 million
PlayStation 3: 9.5-11.5 million
Xbox 360: 6-8 million
PlayStation 2: 3.9-4.9 million

Combined handheld estimates for 2008 are as follows:

Nintendo DS: 14-16 million
PlayStation Portable: 6-8 million

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Synovia

So we've got two games as evidense? One thats totally non-typical (Zak and Wiki, with AWFUL marketing and packaging) and one thats recieved just as many awful reviews as good ones (No More Heroes).

Real strong proof there.


I'm sure I could find a bunch of ps2/ps3/360 games that were good, and didn't sell well. Good games selling poorly isn't just system dependant.

Well, I presented one. And yes, 1 > 0.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Well, I presented one. And yes, 1 > 0.

Yes, but you didn't present proof that its selling poorly because its third party, which was your point.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Game has been out for what, A month? and isn't a franchise game, and has very little advertising....

It's been out one week in the US, yet to come out in Europe, and outsold any of the developer's previous efforts in Japan, but that won't stop people from saying third-parties will never succeed on a Nintendo console. Way too early to call this one if you have any brains.

Zack and Wiki did poorly here and in Japan but has charted in several different European countries since it came out over there. It won't break any records but should still sell over 100k worldwide and this game isn't exactly Shenmue in terms of how much it cost to make. And as stated before, making a game that looks and sounds too kiddy for adults and is far too difficult for small children then not advertising it isn't the best way to make your game sell.

And it's not like Nintendo is taking up all consumer money week after week or even month after month, Smash will have Nintendo's highest first week sales on a home console in Japan since Dragon Quest VI (third-party btw) came out on the SNES in the mid-90s. To say Nintendo could pump out "a 480p version of Tetris and it would sell 250K the first day" is utter bullshit, they spent years on Super Mario Galaxy and it didn't do that well on the first day.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

To say Nintendo could pump out "a 480p version of Tetris and it would sell 250K the first day" is utter bullshit, they spent years on Super Mario Galaxy and it didn't do that well on the first day.

Someone's sarcasm meter is broken.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Evidently, Bill Gates is not the right person to escalate your RROD complaints to if you're having a problem............

http://kotaku.com/351738/msoft-dont-...r-360-problems

It was a little stunning to learn last week that at least one disgruntled Xbox 360 owner had decided to skip the regular channels when dealing with a burnt out 360 and instead went straight to Bill Gates. Even more stunning, Gates apparently knocked some heads and got the guy sorted out in record time (24 hours).

While Consumerist reader, and Xbox 360 owner, Jon was delighted with the outcome, it seems Microsoft was not so much. Today they've dropped us a friendly note to remind everyone that Bill really isn't your go-to guy for Red Rings of Death:

Wow, can you imagine the tongue lashing the likely tsunami of angry emails spurred? Gates, I suspect, may be retired, but he's not THAT retired.

[Synovia]

" Bill Gates or Microsoft executives are not an appropriate escalation point for customer service issues."

Clearly, he is.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Yes, but you didn't present proof that its selling poorly because its third party, which was your point.

No, my point was to show you that there are good 3rd party titles that aren't selling well. You said there weren't. I was showing you that was incorrect.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

No, my point was to show you that there are good 3rd party titles that aren't selling well. You said there weren't. I was showing you that was incorrect.

We're nitpicking here.


Zak and Wiki is a good game, but its a poor product. Marketing, etc, are just as important as the game itself. Zak and Wiki is failing because of poor advertising and market research, not because its a 3rd party game.

[MJ4H]

That may be, but it is a good game. And no, I'm not nitpicking. I like to use factual statements to support arguments, not hyperbole. I also like to point out when others use hyperbole. Part of the reason is because it causes poor perceptions where it is undeserved if people are reading this and think what you said is 100% true. It isn't. There are good 3rd party games out there. At least one of which isn't selling very well.

I don't necessarily disagree with anything else you are saying. I am just pointing this one thing out.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Evidently, Bill Gates is not the right person to escalate your RROD complaints to if you're having a problem............

Beats waiting a few weeks for your coffin at least.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

EA provides their console sales estimates for 2008. They expect the Wii to outsell the PS3 by 3.5 million units and outsell the 360 by 7 million units. They also expect the Nintendo DS to double the sales numbers of the PSP.........

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=32686

Sounds about right. The 360 has already sold a ton of consoles, so you'd have to think the PS3 will start catching up as the 360 reaches a saturation point. The WII has such a huge base, that it will continue to do well. What's interesting to me is game sales, which I expect the 360 to continue to do very well in. Once the PS3 starts catching up in that area, that's when we'll see a real competition between the two begin.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Arles

Sounds about right. The 360 has already sold a ton of consoles, so you'd have to think the PS3 will start catching up as the 360 reaches a saturation point. The WII has such a huge base, that it will continue to do well. What's interesting to me is game sales, which I expect the 360 to continue to do very well in. Once the PS3 starts catching up in that area, that's when we'll see a real competition between the two begin.

The Wii is going to be very interesting to watch. The continued supply issues at this point are starting to become a hinderance. Business and economic models show that their is a point where a constrained supply, intentional or otherwise, eventually cause a change in market forces. Initially, constrained supply can lead to increased demand. But when that continues to happen, the demand begins to die off as consumers give up and pursue other needs/wants. The fact that Wii advertising is now running again after a hiatus over the holidays may be a sign that Nintendo is starting to see some reduced demand. With the Wii now out for over a year, they've really got to start producing consoles at a much higher level or risk adverse effects on demand in the coming months. There's no excuse for reduced supply at this point.

Other than the big game releases on the PS3, the biggest moment this year will likely be a price cut in late summer or early fall. If they can make another $100 price cut in addition to having the HD format war wrapped up, they'd be in a great position entering the holidays.

[wade moore]

I know that I"m getting pretty damned sick of hunting for a Wii.

I tdoesn't mean that I won't ever buy one, but the days of trying to make a special trip to the stores about once a week or so are basically over for me.

A few months from now if I'm in a store and they have one - sweet. If not, my 360 will do me just fine.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I know that I"m getting pretty damned sick of hunting for a Wii.

I tdoesn't mean that I won't ever buy one, but the days of trying to make a special trip to the stores about once a week or so are basically over for me.

A few months from now if I'm in a store and they have one - sweet. If not, my 360 will do me just fine.

I saw a lady throw a fit this week in a Gamestop. Her comments pretty much sum up what can happen with extended supply constraint........

"Been coming to this store every other day for three months."

"I don't care what corporate says.........make a damn waiting list!"

"I don't want to call you every day!"

"Can't they make any more of these things?"

"I'm just about done with this whole mess."

[KWhit]

And yet as soon as she finds a Wii, she'll buy it.


I can't agree with the notion that the fact that Nintendo sells every Wii it produces is a bad thing.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I can't agree with the notion that the fact that Nintendo sells every Wii it produces is a bad thing.

Same, especially considering that they're producing consoles faster than anyone ever has.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by KWhit

And yet as soon as she finds a Wii, she'll buy it.

I can't agree with the notion that the fact that Nintendo sells every Wii it produces is a bad thing.

To be clear, that was not what I implied at all. Selling every console is a great thing, but they need to get over that hump in regards to supply very soon.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

New PS3 color coming to Japan. Now in Silver! (rest of world yawns while Japanese giggle)...........

http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/p...ress-in-japan/

[Daimyo]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

The Wii is going to be very interesting to watch. The continued supply issues at this point are starting to become a hinderance.

I could be wrong, but it seems like you've been typing this exact line for six months now and yet the Wii keeps breaking sales records...

The Wii doesn't have supply issues -- they're making them faster than any console in history -- it has absurd demand and so far there haven't been any signs that that demand is going anywhere.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

I could be wrong, but it seems like you've been typing this exact line for six months now and yet the Wii keeps breaking sales records...

The Wii doesn't have supply issues -- they're making them faster than any console in history -- it has absurd demand and so far there haven't been any signs that that demand is going anywhere.

No, you're absolutely right. I have been stating that for a few months now. It's certainly not something that will show up tomorrow. Arles was talking about the upcoming year, so that was the only reason I brought it up. Summer will likely be the time when we'll see any effect similar to what I'm suggesting. Another key moment will be if the PS3 reaches a $299 price point. My guess is that the Wii will need to make a price cut move at that point to differentiate itself from the competition.

I'd note that I've also been saying for a few months that the PS3 would surpass the 360 worldwide installed base sometime in 2009. Given the recent financial statements along with a couple of recent 2008 console sales estimates, it appears that prediction is right on target.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No, you're absolutely right. I have been stating that for a few months now. It's certainly not something that will show up tomorrow. Arles was talking about the upcoming year, so that was the only reason I brought it up. Summer will likely be the time when we'll see any effect similar to what I'm suggesting. Another key moment will be if the PS3 reaches a $299 price point. My guess is that the Wii will need to make a price cut move at that point to differentiate itself from the competition.

I'd note that I've also been saying for a few months that the PS3 would surpass the 360 worldwide installed base sometime in 2009. Given the recent financial statements along with a couple of recent 2008 console sales estimates, it appears that prediction is right on target.

I really think the Wii has differentiated itself from the competition pretty well. Yeah, price is a part of it. But I think now people like the Wii partly due to how fun and different it is.

[wade moore]

To be clear - I'm not necessarily saying that Nintendo is hurt dramatically by this, but I certainly think there are others like me that are going to give up on the "hunt"... I'm not sure that has a huge impact except that eventually you might actually find them on the shelves now and then.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I really think the Wii has differentiated itself from the competition pretty well. Yeah, price is a part of it. But I think now people like the Wii partly due to how fun and different it is.

Yes, but if you have a $250 Wii vs. a $299 PS3, that's likely a bit too close in the pricing department. A $299 PS3 with a BR player included becomes a pretty good option. If it's still missing from store shelves in the fall, I suppose they could keep it at $250, but my guess is that the supply will catch up to demand by summer.

[CraigSca]

I really doubt a price change on the PS3-side will affect the Wii at all. They are completely two different beasts. As far as this round is concerned, people are buying Wiis and then making a decision to buy EITHER a 360 or PS3.

FWIW, I'm one of the whackos that falls outside this mold, but only because baseball is by far my favorite sport and MLB:The Show "looks" that good this year.

[Kodos]

I know I'd be pretty irritated if I was looking to get a Wii. I've only seen them for sale once since they came out, despite the fact that I check every time I am in a store that would sell them, just out of curiosity. They may be producing more consoles than anyone before, but there is no excuse for not being able to meet demand over a year into the life-cycle of a console.

[MikeVic]

I don't know, everyone I know that's wanted a Wii has gotten one in a couple week's time. The internet is your friend people.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Yes, but if you have a $250 Wii vs. a $299 PS3, that's likely a bit too close in the pricing department

No, its not, because a very large percentage of the people who want a Wii have absolutely no interest in a PS3. The price of the PS3 is completely irrelevant to those people.



I own both, but the PS3 is primarily used as a Blu-ray player and media server, and I play games on the Wii.


Wii Sports kicks the everliving crap out of Motorstorm, which is probably the worst game I have ever owned.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't know, everyone I know that's wanted a Wii has gotten one in a couple week's time. The internet is your friend people.

"I don't have an internet" - Larry Smith when asked what he thought of criticisms of his coaching abilities at Mizzou websites.

FWIW.....there is still a large percentage of the population who wouldn't consider ever buying anything online.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Wii Sports kicks the everliving crap out of Motorstorm, which is probably the worst game I have ever owned.

[MikeVic]

I was more referring to the members of this board. I would assume they're comfortable with online purchases, considering most text sims are online-only. Just a suggestion in case people didn't consider buying a Wii online. I've seen web sites that show you who has items the Wii in stock. There was one site that came up as IN STOCK, but when you'd go directly to the website it wouldn't show the Wii as in stock. But the link from this other site actually let you order... and it worked. The coworker got his Wii a couple weeks ago.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I don't know, everyone I know that's wanted a Wii has gotten one in a couple week's time. The internet is your friend people.

If you know a way to get a Wii online without paying an inflated price, please share. I've been trying to get one since Thanksgiving.

[MikeVic]

Here's one of the things he used:
http://www.consolewatch.com/

It's for Canada, but I would assume there's a similar one for the U.S. He also had some plugin thing that showed up on his Google page, but I'm having trouble finding it.