Vick Sentenced to 23 Months For Dog Fighting

[larrymcg421]

I would like to see the fan/non-fan breakdown among race. For some reason, I suspect the non-fan breakdown will have a wider racial disparity.

[Brillig]

Interesting that more fans want to boot his ass than non-fans. Although it's within the margin of error.

On the other hand... the fans have seen him play.

[molson]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I was thinking the same thing. I can understand cops planting a gun on a suspect, or maybe a couple of drops of blood in a car, but multiple dogs? How do you plant dogs with nobody noticing? Or is it just a criminal reflex to blame planted evidence?

It's never too early to play the race card, when that's your only way out of something.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I would like to see the fan/non-fan breakdown among race. For some reason, I suspect the non-fan breakdown will have a wider racial disparity.

I'm not so sure. I would assume that most of the black non-fans would be transplants and/or women. It could go either way. Keep in mind that both Vick and dogfighting are rather popular in the hood.

[Richard Weed]

Originally Posted by molson

It's never too early to play the race card, when that's your only way out of something.

Maybe white dudes do it too, but they're targeting blacks? I dunno. I'm neither, so just a guess as to why people might play the race card.

[Senator]

A guy at work today told me this was a cultural thing that whites could never understand, and it would be split right down the racial lines. As open mind as I try to have, I even found this beyond my ability to comprehend. Cultural??

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Senator

A guy at work today told me this was a cultural thing that whites could never understand, and it would be split right down the racial lines. As open mind as I try to have, I even found this beyond my ability to comprehend. Cultural??

What they're saying is, white people can never understand savagery, lack of compassion, not having a soul, etc. So basically they're saying black people are evil. You should call them out for being racist.

[Richard Weed]

Originally Posted by Senator

A guy at work today told me this was a cultural thing that whites could never understand, and it would be split right down the racial lines. As open mind as I try to have, I even found this beyond my ability to comprehend. Cultural??

Could Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, etc. understand it? Could Beckham understand it????

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Senator

A guy at work today told me this was a cultural thing that whites could never understand, and it would be split right down the racial lines. As open mind as I try to have, I even found this beyond my ability to comprehend. Cultural??

Dog fighting does seem to be taking off in black inner city culture lately. I don't know how generally accepted it is, but I know that is becoming more and more common.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

What they're saying is, white people can never understand savagery, lack of compassion, not having a soul, etc. So basically they're saying black people are evil. You should call them out for being racist.

It was a very educated black guy.

I should add, he wasn't supporting it, but he seemed to have a clear understanding early on, that this was something that would divide people.

[Senator]

Originally Posted by Richard Weed

Could Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, etc. understand it? Could Beckham understand it????

He thought maybe Belgiums would understand.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Dog fighting does seem to be taking off in black inner city culture lately. I don't know how generally accepted it is, but I know that is becoming more and more common.

Taking off, or being exposed by law enforcement? My guess is this was much more common in the past, but nobody really knew about it..

[Ben E Lou]

Here's an article that talks a bit about it...

http://www.suntimes.com/news/otherviews/431143,CST-CONT-dog17.article

The sick hipness of dog fighting
For too many top athletes and entertainers, this savage sport is outlaw cool


June 17, 2007

BY STEVE MALANGA
America has never had a discussion about the reprehensible blood sport of dog fighting quite like the one that's going on right now.


A dog-fighting operation may have been housed on a Virginia estate owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick, according to recent reports, and that has sparked speculation on talk radio and in the sports pages about whether Vick had a role in organizing fights, and if so what that might do to his sports career.

Vick, of course, is innocent until proved guilty. But the attention his name has brought to this issue should spur a deeper conversation about the troubling growth of dog fighting in America. Although 48 states call it a felony, dog fighting is undergoing a resurgence, transformed from a once largely rural and illicit sport into a fashionable pastime with a certain outlaw cache in many urban neighborhoods.

All the vogue among athletes

For too many top athletes and entertainers, the savage sport of dog fighting is outlaw cool. Embraced by street gangs starting in the late 1980s, who were drawn to it for their own sport then discovered it could be a profitable enterprise, the new world of dog fighting ranges from highly organized, well-attended matches featuring tens of thousands of dollars in betting pools and prize money to impromptu bouts on street corners and in playgrounds. The Humane Society of the United States estimates that as many as 40,000 people participate in dog fighting either as spectators, organizers or breeders of dogs, and tens of thousands of dogs are bred for the ring.



Magazines and Internet sites openly sell training gear and display the "Cajun Rules," an intricate, 19-point system for adjudicating dog fights. Videos depicting dog fights are available for sale online, including recently at Amazon.com, according to a suit filed against the retailer by the Humane Society.

One reason for the growing popularity of dog fighting is that it seems to have come into vogue among professional athletes and entertainers, whose attentions have given the brutal pastime a certain street cred.

In 2005, National Basketball Association player Qyntel Woods pleaded guilty to animal abuse charges after abandoning a pit bull that had wounds consistent with dog fighting. That same year, former NFL running back LeShon Johnson pleaded guilty to possessing fight dogs and encouraging dogfights. And Washington Redskins running back Clinton Portis, when asked about Vick, expressed an attitude that appears all too common among pro athletes: "It's his property; it's his dogs. If that's what he wants to do, do it."

Rap music also glorifies the blood sport. The rapper DMX, who appears with a snarling pit bull on the cover of his album "Year of the Dog Again," has sung: "Place your bets/You can imagine what the bloodline is like," and "All my pups is crazy, 'cause off the leash/They can eat, stand a match for three hours at least."

Madison Avenue has been quick to seize on such attitudes to instill a certain street cred in its own advertising. In 2003, the clothing company Nike, which has endorsement deals with numerous top athletes including Vick, released a gritty-looking TV ad dubbed "The Battle" which featured a brief glimpse of a growling pit bull and Rottweiler about to face off. A Nike representative denied that the ad encouraged dog fighting, but explained, "People have to understand the youth culture we cater to. Our market is the urban, edgy, hip-hop culture."

Creating bigger problems

That culture has reached down to schoolchildren, who increasingly seem to think that two dogs at each others' throats is cool. A survey of schoolchildren by the Anti-Cruelty Society of Chicago in 2001 found that 20 percent had witnessed a dogfight. Earlier this year, Los Angeles police arrested a 13-year-old boy who had organized a dog fight in an alley.


We ignore the surging popularity of dog fighting and its related activities, such as breeding dogs for aggressiveness, at our own risk. Profits from matches now fund other illicit gang operations, including drug buying. An analysis by the Animal Legal and Historical Center, a project of the Michigan State College of Law, of more than two dozen raids on dogfights found that in virtually every instance the police also seized illegal narcotics and weapons.

The presence in neighborhoods of so many dogs bred and trained to be aggressive is also a growing danger. Just a few months ago in England, which has witnessed a similar growth in urban-centered dog fighting, 5-year-old Ellie Lawrenson was mauled to death by a dog allegedly bred by her uncle for the ring.

Dog fighting has also become a nightmare for America's lawful pet owners. Although many fighting dogs are bred, gangs steal neighborhood dogs and cats to be used as 'bait' in training the fighters and developing a blood lust in them. Several years ago, investigators in Pima County, Ariz., began finding the remains of disfigured dead dogs dumped in the desert and determined that many were stolen pets.

Dogs bred to fight are victims, too, usually living short, cruel lives. Most are so aggressive that they must be chained or caged in isolation, apart from other animals and humans. And even if they are rescued by authorities and heal from sometimes terrible wounds, these dogs most often must be put to sleep because they cannot be adopted as family pets.

Prosecutors go easy

Despite such horrors, dog fighting thrives in part because prosecutions are infrequent and penalties can be light. Prosecutors often plead dog fighting cases down to misdemeanor charges of animal cruelty to dispose of them quickly. Instead of jail time, probation and small fines are the norm -- hardly deterrents to an activity that has become increasingly lucrative. In a 2004 raid in Covington, Ga., police seized $250,000 in cash.


Some cities have begun to recognize the seriousness of the problem. Seeing the connection between dog fighting and other gang crimes, Chicago has created a special police unit devoted to investigating cases of abuse. Two years ago, Los Angeles' police force formed an Animal Cruelty Task Force, which has led to several prosecutions of gang members for animal abuse.

But stepped-up police work and prosecutions are only part of the solution. We are in danger of raising a generation of kids who view animal abuse as a sport, and it is up to responsible adults to change that way of thinking.
Maybe we need to begin by pressuring our sports figures, entertainers and even our advertisers to reform their messages, too.

[Rizon]

All Blacks need to watch "Bloodsport" and then need to STFU about this fighting thing.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Taking off, or being exposed by law enforcement? My guess is this was much more common in the past, but nobody really knew about it..

Another article I just read said the following, actually...

"Traditionally a rural activity, the blood sport has caught on in the nation's urban centers. Authorities and animal-welfare groups say its growth is explosive there."

My personal experience would jibe with that. I never heard about it when I was growing up, and didn't hear about it in the late 80s when I was working with inner city kids in downtown Atlanta. I did start hearing about it when I worked with some kids from an urban environment in the mid-90s, and seem to hear about it more and more.

[Karlifornia]

The real question in all of this is "Could Lassie take Rin Tin Tin?"

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

The real question in all of this is "Could Lassie take Rin Tin Tin?"

F both of those losers. Benji for Dog Fighting Champ 2007.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Richard Weed

Could Hispanics, Asians, Middle-Easterners, etc. understand it? Could Beckham understand it????

Hispanics much prefer to fight roosters.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Rizon

F both of those losers. Benji for Dog Fighting Champ 2007.

Hooch would fuck them all up.

[JeeberD]

It's all about Cujo, bitches...

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Another article I just read said the following, actually...

"Traditionally a rural activity, the blood sport has caught on in the nation's urban centers. Authorities and animal-welfare groups say its growth is explosive there."

My personal experience would jibe with that. I never heard about it when I was growing up, and didn't hear about it in the late 80s when I was working with inner city kids in downtown Atlanta. I did start hearing about it when I worked with some kids from an urban environment in the mid-90s, and seem to hear about it more and more.

Based on some of the conversations I have had with some of the natives in this area, it has not completely left the rural area as yet.

[Clark]

I hope Vick pays his fine and goes back to playing football.

The amount of outrage is crazy. These are dogs not humans. It pisses me off that women and children are being abused, raped and killed everyday and you will not hear this much outrage.

I bet that chicken you ate today was electrocuted. I bet the cow that you got the steak from was shot in the head.

I think dog fighting should be illegal and if you participate in it you should be held responsible. But lets keep it in perspective.

[larrymcg421]

The amount of outrage is crazy. These are dogs not humans. It pisses me off that women and children are being abused, raped and killed everyday and you will not hear this much outrage.

This is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You really think if Vick had abused, raped, or killed a woman there would not be this much outrage? Give me a fucking break.

No one is saying he should get the chair, or even life in prison, but there's a big wide gap in between paying a fine and a life sentence.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

This is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You really think if Vick had abused, raped, or killed a woman there would not be this much outrage? Give me a fucking break.

No one is saying he should get the chair, or even life in prison, but there's a big wide gap in between paying a fine and a life sentence.

"

[gkb]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

This is seriously one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You really think if Vick had abused, raped, or killed a woman there would not be this much outrage? Give me a fucking break.

No one is saying he should get the chair, or even life in prison, but there's a big wide gap in between paying a fine and a life sentence.

Well said.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Clark

I think dog fighting should be illegal and if you participate in it you should be held responsible. But lets keep it in perspective.

We are. The illegal activities he's alleged to have participated in would subject him to up to 6 years in jail. If he's convicted, he'll serve a fraction of that. Whether the NFL wants to have someone like him associated with its business is entirely up to the NFL. If not, he'll have to find something else to do. He'd probably be the QB everyone thought he was in the CFL, anyway.

[Radii]

pays his fine? Whether you feel like this should be a big deal or not, the fact is that he's been indicted for multiple felonies. Just because someone thinks the law is stupid or the penalties are too harsh doesn't make it ok to break it.


Raising animals for food vs training them to kill for sport is another debate entirely. To me, comparing the two is insane.


I assure anyone who's reading this that if Michael Vick had abused, raped or killed a woman I would be as outraged.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Senator

A guy at work today told me this was a cultural thing that whites could never understand, and it would be split right down the racial lines. As open mind as I try to have, I even found this beyond my ability to comprehend. Cultural??

For what its worth, I recall reading somewhere (wikipedia in fact, I was reading up on the Oklahoma governor - Brad Henry) that cock-fighting is awfully popular there (and that he won the 2002 election, in part, by being neutral on the issue), especially in rural areas - could this be the white-cultural equivalent? I freely admit to not knowing much about the issue of cock-fighting, but that would be an interesting test of how racial one thing is vs. another.

[mtolson]

Where do you draw the line ?

Some of the comments in this thread make me ask that question. Why is it acceptable in our society to kill an animal for recreation, sport or food ? This whole issue did get me thinking about how we allow humans and animals to be treated as a whole. Its perfectly legal for hunters kill animals for sport, etc.... so why not allow dogs to fight for sport ?

Before the flames start, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with killing or harming animals for fun at all, be it dog fighting or hunting. If Vick is guilty, he should be punished. I just put that out there because we seem to play both sides of the fence when it comes to crualty to animals. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why its acceptable to harm animals for one purpose but not another.

One thing for sure, this whole issue is making me think seriously about the food I eat.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by mtolson

Where do you draw the line ?

Some of the comments in this thread make me ask that question. Why is it acceptable in our society to kill an animal for recreation, sport or food ? This whole issue did get me thinking about how we allow humans and animals to be treated as a whole. Its perfectly legal for hunters kill animals for sport, etc.... so why not allow dogs to fight for sport ?

Before the flames start, don't get me wrong, I don't agree with killing or harming animals for fun at all, be it dog fighting or hunting. If Vick is guilty, he should be punished. I just put that out there because we seem to play both sides of the fence when it comes to crualty to animals. Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why its acceptable to harm animals for one person but not another.

One thing for sure, this whole issue is making me think seriously about the food I eat.

The food you eat, there are laws in place about how the animals get treated and killed. You could argue that there is no non-cruel way of eating an animal, but the state disagrees.

[Noble_Platypus]

I dont give a fuck what color you are, animal cruelty is animal cruelty. Also, anyone who equates a hunter shooting an animal dead and a dog being starved and fed gunpowder to make it mean and hungry so it will fight harder, then electrocuted, drowned, or slammed to the ground to finish it off should be brought up on charges of stupidity.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

For what its worth, I recall reading somewhere (wikipedia in fact, I was reading up on the Oklahoma governor - Brad Henry) that cock-fighting is awfully popular there (and that he won the 2002 election, in part, by being neutral on the issue), especially in rural areas - could this be the white-cultural equivalent? I freely admit to not knowing much about the issue of cock-fighting, but that would be an interesting test of how racial one thing is vs. another.

This is an interesting topic. I do know that cock fighting is actually legal in Puerto Rico (a U.S. territory) and they have small little stadiums where you go watch. I drove by one when I was there on vacation and thinking WTF? It's also still legal in Louisiana (although it will be illegal next year).

I'm actually scratching my head trying to figure out the difference between that and dog fighting. Other than the cute and cuddly dog factor, I can't come up with anything.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Don't forget to get your Nike Zoom Vick V sneaks, scheduled to be released in stores on Aug. 23 for a suggested retail price of $100.

I am positive these will be big sellers now.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I think the NFL and the Falcons are in a tough spot here. If they suspend him right away, they probably have every Sharpton, Jackson, etc out there on their case saying it was racist to suspend him.

Actually, you have to give those types a little more credit than that (not much but a little bit more). First, no one is going to step in and support the guy based on the current allegations and level of investigation. Second, today, Nike, Goodell and Blank received a joint letter from hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton and PETA president Ingrid Newkirk, condemning Vick's alleged involvement in the dogfighting ring and asking all parties involved to distance themselves from Vick.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

This is an interesting topic. I do know that cock fighting is actually legal in Puerto Rico (a U.S. territory) and they have small little stadiums where you go watch. I drove by one when I was there on vacation and thinking WTF? It's also still legal in Louisiana (although it will be illegal next year).

I'm actually scratching my head trying to figure out the difference between that and dog fighting. Other than the cute and cuddly dog factor, I can't come up with anything.

The only difference is that few people keep cocks as pets, so most folks don't have the same kind of sympathy for them.

I've unfortunately witnessed a cockfight a few years ago. The cocks had spurs taped on to their feet, and it was an absolute bloody mess. The people I was with saw no problem with it, but I couldn't watch, and walked straight out when I saw what it involved. Before I saw that, I had no idea they actually taped weapons on to the birds and had them fight to the death.

[Senator]

I might be painted a mangina here, but I have never understood the thrill of cockfighting, and even bullfighting. I have never seen it as noble.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Actually, you have to give those types a little more credit than that (not much but a little bit more). First, no one is going to step in and support the guy based on the current allegations and level of investigation. Second, today, Nike, Goodell and Blank received a joint letter from hip-hop mogul Russell Simmons, civil rights leader Reverend Al Sharpton and PETA president Ingrid Newkirk, condemning Vick's alleged involvement in the dogfighting ring and asking all parties involved to distance themselves from Vick.

Well color me surprised then. I never thought Sharpton would condemn any african american. At worse I thought he wouldn't comment on the whole thing.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Well color me surprised then. I never thought Sharpton would condemn any african american. At worse I thought he wouldn't comment on the whole thing.

I don't think Sharpton's too keen on the thug life. Isn't he a big part of the recent campaign to clean up hip-hop lyrics? (Yeah, that'll work...)

[stevew]

what better, Big Boy or Tiny?

[Ben E Lou]

Couple of interesting links...

1. Outline of what appears to be some kid's college paper. It's entitled "The new craze with hip hop stars and pro athletes? Pit bulls." Dated a little over a year ago. No mention of Vick, of course, but many more references that I would have realized. http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

2. Human society article, probably from 3-4 years ago, about hip hop artists and dogfighting.

http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/anima...gfighting.html

[stevew]

My sister-in-law(I barely claim her), was once dating this piece of shit who was into the cockfighting thing. I only found out cause one time I was visiting my wife's parents, and her and piece-o-shit were staying there(kicked out of their apartment) and they brought some roosters with them. Stupid chickens aren't even edible, with all the drugs they inject into them. It was very surreal.

[Bee]

[Jeff Foxworthy]
If your sister-in-law's boyfriend brings chickens with him when they come to stay with you ....
[/Jeff Foxworthy]

[Richard Weed]

New Mexico's cockfighter guys are bringing a lawsuit against New Mexico for outlawing cockfighting.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I don't think Sharpton's too keen on the thug life. Isn't he a big part of the recent campaign to clean up hip-hop lyrics? (Yeah, that'll work...)

Yeah, Sharpton is very much against the "ghetto culture". He wants to distance himself from that life and rather focus on getting blacks more and more into professional America (so to speak).

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Couple of interesting links...

1. Outline of what appears to be some kid's college paper. It's entitled "The new craze with hip hop stars and pro athletes? Pit bulls." Dated a little over a year ago. No mention of Vick, of course, but many more references that I would have realized. http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

2. Human society article, probably from 3-4 years ago, about hip hop artists and dogfighting.

http://www.hsus.org/hsus_field/anima...gfighting.html

Colin Cowherd played a bunch of clips of rap songs yesterday that referenced or celebrated dogfighting on his ESPN radio show.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Clark

I hope Vick pays his fine and goes back to playing football.

The amount of outrage is crazy. These are dogs not humans. It pisses me off that women and children are being abused, raped and killed everyday and you will not hear this much outrage.

I bet that chicken you ate today was electrocuted. I bet the cow that you got the steak from was shot in the head.

I think dog fighting should be illegal and if you participate in it you should be held responsible. But lets keep it in perspective.

I'll just chime in and agree with the other posters who have pointed out the stupidity of this post. Dogfighting is a horrible, violent felony. The level of outrage here is appropriate.

If this were murder of a human being that he was accused of, the outrage would be 100x as bad.

[Noble_Platypus]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I'll just chime in and agree with the other posters who have pointed out the stupidity of this post. Dogfighting is a horrible, violent felony. The level of outrage here is appropriate.

If this were murder of a human being that he was accused of, the outrage would be 100x as bad.

agreed. Just beacuse there are other horrible crimes being committed doesnt lessen the severity of this one. Besides, dont you think by busting people who are depraved enough to get into dogfighting you are at the same time busting people who would rape or beat a woman, or sell drugs, or shoot someone. Lets get real, people who are involved in such a horrible activity are most likely committing other illegal acts.

[Klinglerware]

So, if the Abu Ghraib dog handler guy got off with just 90 days of hard labor and a reduction of rank, would "backup quarterback for the Georgia Force" be the equivalent punishment for Vick?

[miked]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

So, if the Abu Ghraib dog handler guy got off with just 90 days of hard labor and a reduction of rank, would "backup quarterback for the Georgia Force" be the equivalent punishment for Vick?

The field is too small and the action too quick for Mr. Vick. I went to a playoff game (hey, it's $10) and was surprised about how quick things move. I guess that's why the scores are in the 70s.

/threadjack

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

So, if the Abu Ghraib dog handler guy got off with just 90 days of hard labor and a reduction of rank, would "backup quarterback for the Georgia Force" be the equivalent punishment for Vick?

Michael Vick would not be too hot with the Georgia Force, as Georgia likes to use Chris Greisen's arm to move the ball downfield. They played the same way back when Matt Nagy was at quarterback for them. Michael Vick might make a pretty good defensive back, but if he bulked up a bit, he could be a very good jack linebacker. Georgia's weakness is defense, and they could really use more speed on that side of the ball in the always-tough Southern Division. As a passer, though, I don't think Vick would be capable of more than 80 touchdown passes in a season, and he'd probably have trouble cracking the 60% completion mark. He might hit 62% or so, but --

Oh, wait, you weren't serious.