WW XXXV ( night phase ends friday 9:00 AM,) SAW!!!!

[saldana]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Look, I have heard most of the experienced people talk about a pile on, and how tomorrow will be worthless. If you feel that way, then WHY ARE YOU GOING TO CREATE A PILE ON? Do something else! I didn't create some pre-ordained destiny where you all have to vote to kill me tomorrow. Be the good players I know you are and do something else. You have free will, don't be constricted by some nonsense thing you feel like you have to do when you know you won't get anything out of it. Although I've shown today that straying from the mass just gets you killed even though there's no real reason.

do you really have to ask this question?

[st.cronin]

I am willing to consider a different direction than Tyrith tomorrow. It's possible him and Neuqua are both villagers, in which case his "scheme" absolutely did help us.

[Tyrith]

Yeah, you can't really take anything out of the list of people that were in the thread till after I'm dead and you know my allegiance. But it might possibly be useful to you at that time, so there it is.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I am willing to consider a different direction than Tyrith tomorrow. It's possible him and Neuqua are both villagers, in which case his "scheme" absolutely did help us.

Thank you for seeing why I might have possibly done it, still be good, and still not be a total asshat.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I am willing to consider a different direction than Tyrith tomorrow. It's possible him and Neuqua are both villagers, in which case his "scheme" absolutely did help us.

I agree.
It's not like we're dealing w/ a 20-25 person game w/ 4-5 wolves and 15 "vanilla" roles.
we have 10 villagers, 2 wolves, and 3 known special roles
let's see how the wolves react to tonight and see what tomorrow brings us.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Thank you for seeing why I might have possibly done it, still be good, and still not be a total asshat.

I think the only way this scheme of yours works if you somehow knew nequa was good as well, and we have some way of clearing you other then a seer reveal. Both of those seem all but impossible to me, so maybe im missing the view you want me to see. You seemed quite strongly againt nequa being lynched, can i ask why since their was no night 0 so a seer scan is out of the question.

[Blade6119]

I will say tonight should tell us something. The direction they take should be most interesting.

[SnDvls]

I would however suggest to the seer that tyrith is probally not the person to view tonight though. there are too many other unknows and we'll know about tyrith one way or the other in the next 2 days.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I think the only way this scheme of yours works if you somehow knew nequa was good as well, and we have some way of clearing you other then a seer reveal. Both of those seem all but impossible to me, so maybe im missing the view you want me to see. You seemed quite strongly againt nequa being lynched, can i ask why since their was no night 0 so a seer scan is out of the question.

Day One kills are gonna be villagers unless there is a total dogpile. Ocassionally they'll be villagers via overt manipulation on the part of the wolves to save their own -- very rare. Usually what will happen is something like this where you can't take anything out of it. I mean, what if neuqua turns up bad eventually? We had no way to know. Only people that voted for him were me, a random, and someone voting for an AFK. Day One kills are useless, we should be saving warm bodies to be killed at night or executed later.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I would however suggest to the seer that tyrith is probally not the person to view tonight though. there are too many other unknows and we'll know about tyrith one way or the other in the next 2 days.

Agreed. I'm highly likely to be dead via lynching by the time it matters, and you shouldn't reveal tomorrow under any circumstances other than immediately threat of being lynched.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I would however suggest to the seer that tyrith is probally not the person to view tonight though. there are too many other unknows and we'll know about tyrith one way or the other in the next 2 days.

I think it makes the most sense for the seer to scan somebody NOT involved in the tie. The seer's job is not to clear people - it's to find a wolf.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think it makes the most sense for the seer to scan somebody NOT involved in the tie. The seer's job is not to clear people - it's to find a wolf.

basically what I was saying.

with such a mix of players just trying to give some free and open advice.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Day One kills are gonna be villagers unless there is a total dogpile.

Thats where i disagree, we have gotten wolves before. The big key for me is even if a wolf is not lynched, if hes up for lynch other wolves have to come in and save him. With you not allowing anyone to decide who to lynch, if you or nequa are bad we wont have any evidence to gain from it.

If you two were tied, and gramat came in and killed you...fine...now say on day 4 nequa dies and comes up bad...don't you think thats information we could have used. Your play prevents that from happening. Knowing who voted on you and nequa is only now useless becuase of your move. If he is a wolf, and someone votes him over you, any wolves on him would likely try to swap off. Its not soo much the lynching of wolves day one tells us to me, its the manuevers made to prevent said lynching of wolves that day 1 can be quite useful for in the future.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think it makes the most sense for the seer to scan somebody NOT involved in the tie. The seer's job is not to clear people - it's to find a wolf.

Yes, id be scanning people who arent going to be lynched soon. With roles revealed upon death, we cant afford to waste seer scans. Especially now with this delay in information.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Thats where i disagree, we have gotten wolves before. The big key for me is even if a wolf is not lynched, if hes up for lynch other wolves have to come in and save him. With you not allowing anyone to decide who to lynch, if you or nequa are bad we wont have any evidence to gain from it.

If you two were tied, and gramat came in and killed you...fine...now say on day 4 nequa dies and comes up bad...don't you think thats information we could have used. Your play prevents that from happening. Knowing who voted on you and nequa is only now useless becuase of your move. If he is a wolf, and someone votes him over you, any wolves on him would likely try to swap off. Its not soo much the lynching of wolves day one tells us to me, its the manuevers made to prevent said lynching of wolves that day 1 can be quite useful for in the future.

Blade, Gram could have voted for me anyway. He didn't. It's not like I wasn't telegraphing my vote the entire time. Yes, I wanted to stay alive, because me being alive is another vote you can use against the bad guys, and I'm another warm body. But you also have to realize that from where I sat it seemed extremely unlikely that anyway would vote for Neq over me -- the odds were near zero because since he showed up there was absolutely no reason to vote for him, and I had my "let's provoke blade" incident. So I'd die, and nothing would really be gained from it, except that you'd probably try to burn down whoever broke the tie because tomorrow you'll have nothing else to go on.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Blade, Gram could have voted for me anyway. He didn't. It's not like I wasn't telegraphing my vote the entire time. Yes, I wanted to stay alive, because me being alive is another vote you can use against the bad guys, and I'm another warm body. But you also have to realize that from where I sat it seemed extremely unlikely that anyway would vote for Neq over me -- the odds were near zero because since he showed up there was absolutely no reason to vote for him, and I had my "let's provoke blade" incident. So I'd die, and nothing would really be gained from it, except that you'd probably try to burn down whoever broke the tie because tomorrow you'll have nothing else to go on.

I certainly understand the survival instinct, but i do not understand that coupled with you openly stating you didnt want to vote for nequa. You seemed to go out of your way to be against his lynching, which is really quite odd to me as in that situation when its a toss-up id do everything i could to discredit the other party.

Thats where i have a breakdown with your claims about how you did it for survival. You did not try to convince others to vote nequa, you actually did quite the opposite.

We have utterly opposite views about what would be gained from your death today it seems...i think the information is far more valuable then any normal villager, while you seem to think having an extra body is more important. I suppose its a difference in opinion that will never be settled, but like i stated above: I see major cracks in your story(in my opinion) that only add on to the suspicion you garnered today. I just dont understand your claims, when i see actions i feel contradict those exact claims.

[Swaggs]

Even though he seemed to be trying a little too hard to build a case against me today, I am thinking that Tyrith may have just made a selfish play, but not necessarily a wolfish play. I do agree with Blade that it seemed like he was trying a little to hard to not vote for Neuqua, but again, that could just be because he was worrying about self preservation and not giving anyone else a chance to tie.

His play is strange, in that he seems to think that someone else would come in and swing things. On Day 1, no one, good or bad, really wants to get noticed for anything, since it takes so little to get yourself on the chopping block, so it is surprising that he was waiting for someone else to make things happen, rather than tying things up early and hoping someone else would break one way or the other. Again, not the play I would make, but maybe not wolfy.

I am guessing that he will get my vote tomorrow, as there will likely not be any better candidate identified and his moves today are the most damning.

[Izulde]

For me it's a matter of principle. In the absence of any outright evidence that points to a specific person being a wolf, selfish plays like this can and should be punished.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Izulde

For me it's a matter of principle. In the absence of any outright evidence that points to a specific person being a wolf, selfish plays like this can and should be punished.

For me it's a matter of finding those damn keys.

[Lorena]

I'm not sure what to think of Tyrith's last minute vote. I agree with Swaggs and cronin that it might have been a bad villager move, but I don't think a wolf would put himself in the spotlight like he has. If he is an assistant, he has some massive balls to draw so much attention to himself.

I'm interested to hear what some of the more quiet people have to say. Neuqua was awefully quiet and came in towards the end of the day and we haven't heard from oliegirl since her vote on Izulde.

[Lorena]

Oh and Tyrith, I didn't switch my vote because I wanted to see what you were going to do. I never really got a chance to react as it was literally a last minute vote.

Oh well, interesting day and I'll be curious to see who the wolves decide to kill off tonight. Hopefully the bodyguard can successfully block the kill and we learn something, but I doubt we'd be that lucky.

[Blade6119]

Watch them kill me just to make sure ant's version of the dennis green rant comes true. I would honestly enjoy dying tonight just to see what ant comes up with next.

lol, im soo screwed...i made it past day one, so now im just counting the days until i die. Its coming, i just hope i die after doing something heroic like finding a key.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Watch them kill me just to make sure ant's version of the dennis green rant comes true. I would honestly enjoy dying tonight just to see what ant comes up with next.

lol, im soo screwed...i made it past day one, so now im just counting the days until i die. Its coming, i just hope i die after doing something heroic like finding a key.

Have you checked your own stomach?!?





I'M JOKING!!
We need to grab that scalpel and start cutting people's stomachs to find this darn key.

[LoneStarGirl]

Well Tyrinth's move definitly sucked, but I dont think it was wolfy. However, I do agree with Izulde that this move should be punished. Unless the seer comes out with some valuable information I still feel we should lynch Tyrinth.

(Unless the kill last night reveals a lot to us, which I doubt it will)

[Lathum]

You slowely wake up and hope that it was all a dream but when you sit up and look around at the dirty abandoaned building you realize it was not. You can't help but feel like you've made no progress and you can only hope the assistants suffered the same problems. YOu all gather in front of the locked door but notice one of you is missing. A quick search of the hallway and discover the body of SNDVLS lying face down in a pool of his own blood just inside his doorway. His throat apparently slit with a blood stained jagged piece of mirror lying next to his body. YOu search his body and discover his wallet, a quick inspection of it reveals an old badge and an expired police ID card. He was the retired detective!!

Day 2 deadline 9:00 PM EST

[Swaggs]

Looks like we lost our seer.

That's pretty devestating for day 1. Now we have no seer and no day 1 lynch (or results to examine).

[st.cronin]

vote Blade

[st.cronin]

To explain: There are very few players who, as wolves, would have targeted SnDvls last night.

[SnDvls]

good luck all

[Izulde]

Vote Tyrith for now at least.

st. cronin, explain what you mean a bit more. I'm off to clas.

[Swaggs]

I'm out until after work, so I will be back around 7:00 PM EST.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Vote Tyrith for now at least.

st. cronin, explain what you mean a bit more. I'm off to clas.

What I mean is, Blade likes to take intuitive leaps. I think the wolves made an intuitive leap that SnDvls was the seer.

[Tyrith]

Yeah, I can certainly see what cronin is talking about. SnDvls is a very good player but doesn't have the flash of blade or cronin or saldana. It's an ultra solid lynch...that just managed to screw us, too.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Izulde

For me it's a matter of principle. In the absence of any outright evidence that points to a specific person being a wolf, selfish plays like this can and should be punished.

When you prove I had selfish intent at heart -- other than objectively trying to win the game -- tell me. Until then, I will not stand for being insulted any further. Don't make it personal.

[Lorena]

We lose our seer day 1? Wow, that really freaking sucks, what a stroke of luck by the assistants.

Originally Posted by oliegirl

So because of the fact that I'm intuitive and figured you out early in the game hurts me? If you really are a prisoner shouldn't you be thinking more along the lines of "Hmmm, Olie played well last time and somehow figured me out right away - maybe I should do what I can to keep her alive so she can help us win"???? Seems awfully assistant-ish to me...

VOTE IZULDE

Last time she posted in here, it was around 12pm yesterday and last time she was on at all was this morning at 6:32am but yet didn't post anything. She was more vocal last game than she has been so far and has 4 posts. She might be afraid to say the wrong thing to get attention.

Vote Oliegirl

[Lorena]

Food for thought:
------------------------------------------
Who wanted a tie?
- Swaggs (post #69)
- st.cronin (post #70)
- Tyrith (post #72)
------------------------------------------
Neuqua votes:
- Grammaticus (post #47) random vote
- Swaggs (post #111) created tie
- Tyrith (post #145) save own skin

Tyrith votes:
- saldana (post #58) random vote
- st.cronin (post #99) created tie
- Neuqua (post #126) save own skin
-------------------------------------------
After voicing their opinion on the tie strategy, Swaggs mentioned that "we are not looking for a tie today" and "randomly" votes for Neuqua to create the a tie anyway (post #110). St.cronin, same thing, but he says "Ok, so a tie is a bad idea. I think it may be worth it, though, to settle on two candidates." (post #81) and then votes for Tyrith to create the tie a lot of us didn't want.

Just something to think about. My vote for oliegirl may change if something comes up.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

We lose our seer day 1? Wow, that really freaking sucks, what a stroke of luck by the assistants.



Last time she posted in here, it was around 12pm yesterday and last time she was on at all was this morning at 6:32am but yet didn't post anything. She was more vocal last game than she has been so far and has 4 posts. She might be afraid to say the wrong thing to get attention.

Vote Oliegirl

The reason I haven't posted much is because (1) I haven't had much to say yet, I'm still new to the game and am trying to figure it all out before I start putting my 2 cents in. (2) We just moved on Thursday and I'm trying to get unpacked and get organized so we can stop living like nomads, and (3) I got bit my our cat Sunday night and am on pain killers that knock me out so I've been going to bed early.

I can assure you I'm a prisoner, and after catching up on everything (I couldn't get it all read this morning b/c I had to get Anthony on the bus) I think that Tyrith is our best bet for lynching at this point.

Do we know for sure that sndvls was the seer or is this an educated guess?

Also, DC, if you go back and look at the last game, I really didn't have anything to say until day 2, so I'm not really any more quiet this game than I was last game.

[Tyrith]

We know for sure that he was the seer.

[Lorena]

Originally Posted by Lathum

He was the retired detective!!

Day 2 deadline 9:00 PM EST

Originally Posted by Lathum

Rules-

Retired Detective: Each night you may select a person to spy on. If you select assistant up to no good you have a 75% chance of discovering their identify but they have a 25% chance of discovering your identity and springing a booby trap on you.

Yup, for sure

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Dodgerchick

Yup, for sure

Yeah, just saw that when I went back and read pg. 1

I don't have any real gut feelings to go on right now, but if I had to vote this instant (which I'm not), I'd vote for Tyrith...his behavior and very last minute vote just look incredibly suspicious and his reasons for doing what he did don't really add up to me.

[Tyrith]

I'm not going to sit here and come up with some nonsense reasons why I should live. But please, for our best interest, don't kill me for the sake of killing me. I like that there ideas being thrown out there today -- that's what we need.

That said, I don't have a lot of good ideas myself right now. Cronin is getting some trust points because it'd be easy for him to keep momentum on me, especially seeing that he voted for me yesterday, but he was looking to figure out why I did the admittedly botched things I did yesterday. Dodger's insight is interesting. I believe that Swaggs voted for Neuqua because he hadn't checked in yet, which is understandable. The votes that didn't come off the randoms when we narrowed it down to two concern me, to a degree, because it is a routine tatctic to dogpile on the perceived loser to prevent antics like what I pulled.

Really the only people I think got through Day 1 with no suspicion for me are cronin, who was trying to create a 2 candidate dialogue by targeting me and had good reason to change to me, and neuqua, who did nothing other than self defense. I'm going to wait for my information again.

[Tyrith]

I don't think I'm going to try to describe my logic any further, because it seems more likely to get me killed harder than accomplish anything. If anyone is interested PM or AIM me after the game because suffice it to say there was a good reason, or a confused mess of good reasons, behind it, it's just confusing.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

... (3) I got bit my our cat Sunday night and am on pain killers that knock me out so I've been going to bed early.

...

Do you live with Siegfried and Roy?

Sorry just snooping around.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Do you live with Siegfried and Roy?

Sorry just snooping around.

No, but we just moved and brought the cat over on Sunday...she wasn't too happy to see the dog and they got in a fight...I got in the middle and CHOMP! Her tooth into the top of my hand...2 hours at the ER and a tetanus shot later I came home

[spleen1015]

LYNCH oliegirl's cat

[Grammaticus]

I re-read the tape recording messge. It says there are 3 keys. Two assistants have them in their stomachs and somebody has a third key "on them". We searched the body of SnDvls and found his wallet, but no key. Does it make sense to cut open his stomach to see if he has the third key. Makes sense that it would be in the same place as the assistants keys. Plus it says the assistants have the "correct" keys. So if SnDvls has a key, and he is not an assistant, then it should not be a "correct" key. I think we need to check everyone's stomack that dies.

Lathum, can we do this?

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

LYNCH oliegirl's cat

Sunday night I would have agreed and given you the rope...but she didn't mean it, she was just freaked out and scared...and I should have known better than to get in the middle of the two of them. Poor cat has been hiding under my bed ever since

[st.cronin]

Just some more food for thought - the wolves would not want a tie on day 1. They would want a villager lynched. A tie, and they are also a day behind.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Just some more food for thought - the wolves would not want a tie on day 1. They would want a villager lynched. A tie, and they are also a day behind.

True...but if a tie keeps them hidden/safe and us confused for another day, doesn't that also help them?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

True...but if a tie keeps them hidden/safe and us confused for another day, doesn't that also help them?

Depending on how the vote plays out, yes. I'm just saying that the wolves wouldn't start out the day wanting a tie. They might decide, at a certain point in the voting, that a tie is a good option. But it's extremely unlikely that they would start out planning for a tie.