GroupThink 3 - Sizing up the Kitty Hawk Flyers

[QuikSand]

Some notable/obvious rookie observations:

If we’re looking for a ready-to-play guy who will probably step right in and have a serious impact, we have to consider FB Earnest Rubble. He’s a Libra, and would therefore fit with our current position chemistry in the backfield – and has high enough leadership that he could easily assume the mantle as group leader in time. Our rule requiring that position leaders start nominally makes him a reserve – but Rubble would probably become a major utility weapon for us, with his well-developed and varied skills. Does it make sense to select a FB this high in the draft? That’s probably the open question here – Rubble is a solid prospect, no doubt about that.

WR Robert Sanderson is probably worth a look here in round two, he looks like a solid big-pay man who could also return kicks for us. Not a total package, but certainly the type of WR who makes sense with a second round selection – and might be a good fit for us.

There are several linebackers here – and that position might make sense, too (especially if we intend to move toward the 3-4 in time). I think some input from the DC on what we’ll be looking for would be helpful here – but my instincts might point toward a guy like Ron Coleman, who should become a solid run stopper with good drop-back coverage skills in an underneath zone scheme. Gabe Bernreuter looks like he could become a force in the outside pass rush, but may not have the well-rounded skills of an every-down ‘backer. There are several more to consider here or soon as well.

CB Cornell Ferguson looks like the best cover man and return specialist in the remaining draft – but his man-coverage skills are lacking. Might be a reach this early (but he’ll get taken soon, I suspect), but I’m drooling over putting him back to take punts. He’d also have a positional affinity with S Hawkins, our position leader.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by QuikSand
If we’re looking for a ready-to-play guy who will probably step right in and have a serious impact, we have to consider FB Earnest Rubble. He’s a Libra, and would therefore fit with our current position chemistry in the backfield – and has high enough leadership that he could easily assume the mantle as group leader in time. Our rule requiring that position leaders start nominally makes him a reserve – but Rubble would probably become a major utility weapon for us, with his well-developed and varied skills. Does it make sense to select a FB this high in the draft? That’s probably the open question here – Rubble is a solid prospect, no doubt about that.

I have no issues with taking a super FB in the early stages. Depending on his skill he can be slotted as the passing back, short back, and in the normal depth charts. I might also slot him as the TE1 or TE2 in some formations to take advantage of his catch skills (unless his drops get to be too high). He could also be slotted as the #2 back and the Pro formation FB.

WR Robert Sanderson is probably worth a look here in round two, he looks like a solid big-pay man who could also return kicks for us. Not a total package, but certainly the type of WR who makes sense with a second round selection – and might be a good fit for us.

I think Logan or Kramer would be as good for us. Will one of them be around in the early 3rd round?

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Fritz
I think Logan or Kramer would be as good for us. Will one of them be around in the early 3rd round?

Pretty fair bet that one will, I suspect. They both are excellent punt returners, that much is certain.

I have a rather unsubstantiated faer about guys like Logan, though - in particular because his highest main ratuing, by far, is route running. I interpret this as "he will get lots of passes thrown to him, but he doesn't have great ability otherwise." He's so-so in other key areas (avoiding drops, getting downfield, etc) but I am always wary of guys like this - for that reason. I cannot back that up with any particular evidence, but it just makes sense to me-- I'm not sure that I want to have a lot of passes that otherwise would have gone to our best receivers to instead get thrown to a guy like Logan, who has mediocre overall skills (other than drawing passes his way). Seems like subtraction by addition, if you get my drift.

I'd prefer Kramer of the two, for that reason... but in general would have no problem saiting until round three and seeing if we can get a receiver/returner there.

[VPI97]

Just thought I'd post this...for the sake of realism.

2019 NCAA All-Senior Team
Pos	Player	Team	Notes
QB	Scott Scott	Colorado State	pass - 293/460 4105 yds, 39 TD, 21 Int; 2019 Heisman Winner
HB	Luke Withers	Texas A & M	rush - 323 for 1644, 22 TD; rec - 81 for 882, 10 TD; 2-time 1st team All-American
FB	Phil Pierce	Auburn	rush - 37 for 104, 4 TD; rec - 47 for 425, 7 TD; 2nd team All-American
TE	Joel Sibley	Nevada	rec - 35 for 555, 6 TD; 2nd team All-American
WR	Robert Sanderson	Florida	rec - 55 for 865, 15 TD; 1st team All-SEC
WR	Sedrick Beckwith	West Virginia	rec - 59 for 979, 11 TD; 23.9 KR Avg; 1st team All-Big East
C	Jake Givens	Liberty	2 time 1st team All-American; 4 time 1st team All-Southern Conference
G	Joey Bradley	Maryland	1st team All-American
G	Ross Vincent	Auburn	1st team All-American
T	Richard Escalante	Kansas State	1st team All-American
T	Josh Marshall	So. California	2nd team All-American
P	Desmond Barham	Marshall	40.0 punting average; long of 56; 1st team All-American
K	Lenny Marvin	Tennessee	22/27 FG; long of 43; 2nd team All-SEC
DE	Glen Montgomery	Texas Tech	71 tckl, 16.0 sck, 24 TFL; 2 time 1st team All-American; 4 time 1st team All-Big 12
DE	Kenyon Villarreal	Idaho	69 tckl, 21.5 sck, 35 TFL; 1st team All-American
DT	Herman Jackson	Colorado	66 tckl, 8.5 sck, 16 TFL; 1st team All-Big 12
ILB	Skip Prescott	Clemson	143 tckl, 1.0 sck, 25 TFL; 1st team All-American
ILB	O.J. Heinlein	Tulane	100 tckl, 2.0 sck, 18 TFL, 3 int; 2nd team All-American
OLB	Phil McDaniel	Liberty	88 tckl, 1.0 sck, 21 TFL, 2 int; 1st team All-American
OLB	Skip May	Air Force	75 tckl, 15 TFL, 2 int; 2nd team All-American
CB	Lionel McCrary	Colorado State	8 int, 14 defn, 63 tckl; 11.5 PR Avg, 24.0 KR Avg; 1st team All-American
CB	Drew Shannon	Illinois	8 int, 10 defn, 33 tckl; 9.5 PR Avg; 1st team All-American (2017)
S	Daryl Bowers	UCLA	6 int, 14 defn, 93 tckl; 1st team All-American
S	Sam Bardon	West Virginia	4 int, 11 defn, 102 tckl; 8.4 PR Avg; 2nd team All-American

[QuikSand]

Fritz, RB is a key spot still open -- please check out the RBs in the draft, and give a sense ow where you think we'll need to invest to get a guy or two of suitable quality.

Kendrick Washington would probably be a very solid #1 guy, but I don't know if he's a great fit for the system you are putting together (he's quick, with good receiving skills, but not particularly good on third down). If we wanted him, I suspect we'd have to take him here - he won't be around much longer.

How about Michael McIntyre? Seems like a decent fit... and works wit team chemistry. But where do we think he falls in the draft?

Anyway - give that some thought...

[Swaggs]

what type of coverage scheme are we going with on defense?

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Swaggs
what type of coverage scheme are we going with on defense?

Our two current starters at CB have talents that suggest mostly man coverage, or perhaps man/bump-and-run primarily. Bordano, our young and better guy, is probably equally adept at all three types of covrage, but Henderson is rated 49/74 in MTM, 46/50 in BNR, but only 17/19 in zone.

S Louie Reynolds is also lousy in zone coverage, while Hawkins is pretty much level acrodd the board (actually slightly better in zone).

My guess is based on what we have, we ought to play plenty of man, with bump-and-run being our second option. We ought to play fairly little zone, overall - it's just not a good fit with our current staff.



So, potentially attractive CBs like Ferguson and especially Scully are tought to fit into our system - with their lack of man coevrage skills. If we went with either one, and neede dthem to play a lot, I expect we might have to go to a heavy bump-and-run scheme, which might work out just fine -- I have very little experience using that as a primary coverage device.

A guy like CB Brian Shields might make a lot of sense for us... good man coverage skills, decent in bump, and a great punt returner to boot.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally posted by Swaggs
what type of coverage scheme are we going with on defense?

It will vary depending on what talent we have (at least initally). I will give a more detailed summary when I get home and have a little more time.

Generally, however, I like to blitz/dog much more with LBs than with the secondary.

I plan to base the D based on the LBs. If they can blitz, I will blitz and play man. If they can cover, we will play a lot more zone.

If people can wait until tonight, I will post a bit more in depth with what I want as a defensive scheme in a perfect world.

[Fritz]

RB Bruce Bruce should get a look.
RB Adrian Kwan is a #2/#3 with reasonble return skills at PR/KR

*****RB Brett Atkins (Taurus) is a guy who I like. Slow, but good for short yardage (elusive/power inside)

RB Rob Strong Speed back who can sub as a wr.

Dud RB who have weak ratings at PR/KR are all over the bottom of the scouting charts.

[QuikSand]

To help tide us over, as we consider the defense:

Pos Name               RunD      PRTech     PRStr
SLB Peterson          13/33      40/94       49
SLB Brito             15/33      25/50       48
MLB Shon              26/33      45/68       90
MLB Daniels              60         44       87
WLB Mills                84         38       45
WLB Davidson          32/59      16/31       12

[QuikSand]

At the right time in the draft (I don't know when thet might be) we might want to look at LG Grant Young, who is listed as 2nd best G on the board, and is a Capricorn which works with our current chemistry mix. Slightly pass-inclined, he may be better-suited as a right guard, but I'm guessing he could be a long-time starter for us. (I find that guys with high ratings but low endurance, like this guy, seem to do just fine on the OL)

[Fritz]

Originally posted by QuikSand
At the right time in the draft (I don't know when thet might be) we might want to look at LG Grant Young, who is listed as 2nd best G on the board, and is a Capricorn which works with our current chemistry mix. Slightly pass-inclined, he may be better-suited as a right guard, but I'm guessing he could be a long-time starter for us. (I find that guys with high ratings but low endurance, like this guy, seem to do just fine on the OL)

as I recall, there were a few good looking guards left in the draft pool. Here is where that zodiac stuff can affect strategy. If you find a talent in a need position with an affinity sign, should he move ahead of more talented, or greater need players?

[Bee]

Originally posted by Fritz
RB Bruce Bruce should get a look.

I really want this guy!

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Bee
I really want this guy! (Bruce Bruce)

Yeah, I figured. Actually, all things considered - if he were to slip a ways (maybe into round three) he would be a great pickup for us, he'd be a very nice versatile #2 RB for us.

But I feared you'd strike up the band for him.

[Bee]

Yep...kinda wished I were the Runningbacks coach now. I think we'd have our starter for the next 10-12 years.

[Buzzbee]

G'day Bruce!

My $0.02 (being at work and not having the stuff in front of me).

A FB hasn't been taken yet. Is there a reasonable possibility that Ernie Rubble will fall to our next pick? If not, are there other similar FB's that might? From past experience, FB's tend to be cheap, so I question if our *top* pick should be used for a FB when we have other *need* areas. In addition, we would be using a 2nd round pick for someone who (initially/potentially) will be a reserve. Of course, we haven't made a rule against starting a position leader and setting their playing time at 1.

[Fritz]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
Of course, we haven't made a rule against starting a position leader and setting their playing time at 1.

I think that would be OK. In my view, "starting" someone is as much about prestige as anything else.

[Buzzbee]

I had a chance to look over the files last night and here are my thoughts.

I would be ok with any of the following:

Ernest Rubble - I think Ernie Rubble has been working at the quarry with Barney and Fred, and is solid. He is clearly head and shoulders above other FB and we don't currently have much talent at that position. He's hard to pass up.

Robert Sanderson - Kenneth Wilson appears to be a better overall receiver, but that's what scares me. He looks a little too even, all the way down. His leadership is also pretty high, which might cause problems. Sanderson has a high Getting Downfield rating which means big Yards After Catch and is a big play receiver. I like that. Our receiver corps is okay at the top, but has no depth. Sanderson has no punt return abilities, but would eventually be a serviceable kick returner.

Mercury Goff - Has a ton of potential in both Man and Zone defenses. A punishing hitter for a guy who is 5'11", 194 lbs. With a high leadership (99) he would be our Secondary leader, which would be a drawback early, but possibly a strength later on (and we could set his playing time to 1 if he starts). One drawback is that he doesn't have much in the way of return skills, which is something we need. He is a Scorpio so no problems with conflict, and affinity with 3rd string QB.

We could use a guard, and there are some quality players there. But I think there is enough depth that we can pick one up in a later round. There are some good cornerbacks as well, but I didn't see any that made my scrotum tingle. Too bad Marcus Scully has 0 for M2M, or he'd be a no brainer.

Just my $0.02.

[QuikSand]

I'm thinking that with our three top picks, we come away with FB Rubble, a WR, and a LB. My general sense is that the one singular guy from among the three is Rubble, so we probably ought to "reach" a little (I agree that he might fall) and take him now, and then we'll still get somebody at WR and somebody at LB.

And with that, I will be away for a couple of days, so I'll pass the baton to whomever feels ampowered to go onward. We have yet to get meaningful input from alb or Swaggs, so maybe it's just as well. I'll be back online some time on Sunday, and will get caught up then.

[Buzzbee]

What about defensive backs? We have FS, SS, and 3 RCB. I think that leaves us a little thin there. With LB, we've got 6, 2 each at SLB, MLB, and WLB. Just looking at numbers, not quality.

[albionmoonlight]

I believe that we should pick FB Rubble with this pick. He can step in and play the "utility back" role as Fritz described above. I think that FOF4's gameplanning really allows one to use a good fullback if one is creatitive enough--I think that it will be fun for the OC to see what he can get out of the guy. Even if he is a bit of a reach, there is no one else on the board screaming to be taken, so I say we go with him.

As far as defensive scheme in general. I plan to use the involved gameplan to the best of my ability--meaning that it is OK to have one dimentional guys (i.e. guys who can only rush the passer, or guys who can only stop the run). I will work the game plan to make sure that everyone is used to the best of his ability--that will be part of the fun for me.

Overall, I would like a scheme where we play a lot of man-to-man and bump-and-run coverage and where we blitz almost exclusively with our linebackers. Additionally, we find the one or two LBs we have who have great blitzing ability, and we blitz with them heavily. We don't worry so much about coming after them with 100 different looks. We just send our same best 5 or 6 blitzing guys after them and see what happens.

That said, I would be happy with waiting a couple of picks and getting Gabe Bernreuter. Even if he cannot do much other than rush the passer, he can still get on the field on third downs as a backup LB or DE and do just that.

Oh--FWIW, whether we orient CB by L/R side of the formation or by best receiver will depend both on our opponent and on our CBs.

[QuikSand]

Hmmm. This doesn't really bode all that well. I had suspected we'd have rolle into the fifth round by now during my absence, and that I'd have a lot of catching up to do. Instead... nary a fart out of the lot of you fellas. Okay then.

Well, with a few days to provide input on the forthcoming selection, I'll go ahead and move through the first sections of the draft, and we'll see where that leaves us.

[QuikSand]

2020 Rookie Draft, continued

I have a late change of heart, after getting varied input on our offensive needs, and decide that WR Robert Sanderson, after a standout season in college and clearly showing the best set of on-field skills among te WRs available, is the to pick here. I harken back to many previous FOF drafts watching FBs fall until the middle rounds, and hope/expect to see the same with Rubble.

40. Kitty Hawk - Sanderson, Robert, WR, Florida
41. Providence - Bullock, Curtis, T, Air Force
42. Puget Sound - Goff, Mercury, S, Illinois
43. Memphis - Brennan, Randal, QB, Texas A&M
44. Ypsilanti - Henry, Jerald, T, Michigan
45. Hawk Mountain - Fulton, Tito, QB, Mississippi
46. Athens - Oswalt, Lewis, G, South Florida
47. Fort Wayne - Wilson, Kenneth, WR, Stanford
48. Fort Knox - Kramer, Howie, WR, UCLA
49. Ocean City - Schrempf, Mickey, T, California
50. Lake Erie - Jue, Donny, OLB, Tennessee
51. Bermuda - Goga, Deron, S, Tennessee
52. Napa Valley - Levine, Zack, T, Stanford
53. Key West - Conley, Austin, T, Virginia Tech
54. Nashua - Villarreal, Kenyon, DE, Idaho
55. Kitty Hawk - Rubble, Earnest, FB, Ohio State
56. Sacramento - Young, Grant, G, Texas Christian
57. Sacramento - Farley, Bert, T, Washington State
58. Little Rock - Bernreuter, Gabe, ILB, UCLA
59. Mazatlan - Matthews, Eugene, DE, Illinois
60. Texarkana - Wacholtz, Teddy, ILB, Penn State
61. Manhattan - Vincent, Ross, G, Auburn
62. Tulsa - Washington, Kendrick, RB, Central Florida
63. Louisville - Montgomery, Glen, DE, Texas Tech
64. Sault Ste. Marie - Coleman, Ron, ILB, Wake Forest
65. Niagara Falls - Weaver, Julio, G, Nebraska
66. Thunder Bay - Price, Lenny, G, Oregon
67. Norfolk - Pierson, Grant, ILB, Texas A&M
68. Wheeling - Wooden, Ernie, WR, Utah
69. Pensacola - Scully, Marcus, CB, Texas A&M
70. Tijuana - Ferguson, Cornell, CB, Texas A&M
71. Hawk Mountain - Gay, Tom, S, Illinois

The gambit pays off, and we get the two guys that I really wanted here, albeit in the reverse order than I had expected. With one of the other WRs we liked getting snapped up in round two before our second pick, it looks like this may be been the wise move (I don’t know where Sanderson would have gone). I’ll leave it to the other participants to decide whether there needs to be an inquiry over potential nepotism here.

Regrettably, the wait until the third round has wiped off the top LB pick, Gabe Bernreuter, who went shortly after our late second rounder. So, we have a slate of other players to consider here.


We had considered WR Bennie Logan as a possible pick here, and still have a need at PR, but that might be a bit of a stretch after taking Sanderson in round two. RB Bruce Bruce, despite the kicker name, is actually a very defensible pick here – and has some return skills to go along with pretty solid #2 running abilities.

CB Orlando Chapman may not be a standout in the cover areas we’re looking for, but (as pointed out just above) we are pretty thin at DB, and he would make a pretty passable nickel back, plus a star punt returner. CB Luther Duran might be even more intriguing – and might have more upside in coverage, in addition to great return skills. I had noted CB Brian Shields before as a good fit – and he remains available.

I’ll put thing on hold for right now – but my initial inclination is to look at a CB/returner with this 3rd round pick. I have yet to do a chemistry analysis here – so that could be a deciding factor.

[QuikSand]

Just in case the files help with scouting - here is an update:

[QuikSand]

Second updated file here...

[thirdandlong]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Instead... nary a fart out of the lot of you fellas.

I farted while waiting for you to come back and post.
Twice I think.

[Buzzbee]

In between painting, putting up a ceiling fan, ripping up carpet, cutting grass, weatherproofing a deck, installing laminate flooring, having sex with my wife and fixing a leaky roof, I'll do my best to review the files and make suggestions. Yes, wifey and I are taking the week off to do some home improvement stuff. I just hope it looks like Trading Spaces instead of Sanford and Son.

Without analyzing the current players available, my first inclination is to go with a CB since we are thin there. However, I haven't looked at the talent available, or other need areas. Hopefully I will have some time around lunch, or later tonight.

[albionmoonlight]

I don't like Bruce Bruce--at least not with this pick.

The only linebacker worth taking is Perry Groce, but he is much more of a coverage linebacker than a run stopper or a pass rusher, so he does not fit into our scheme as well as I would like.

I vote for Duran here. He has high reds in both kick and punt return, killing both birds with one stone. Also, his greens in coverage ability are more well rounded than Chapman--especially since we are not looking to play a lot of zone.

I vote for CB Duran with this pick.

[QuikSand]

Just for my/our convenience...

The four affinity groups are:
Aries, Gemini, Scorpio
Sagittarius, Leo, Virgo
Pisces, Taurus, Cancer
Aquarius, Libra, Capricorn

And the six pairs of opposed signs are:
Aries - Aquarius
Taurus - Libra
Gemini - Virgo
Scorpio - Pisces
Capricorn - Leo
Cancer - Sagittarius

[QuikSand]

I, too, like Luther Duran best for this pick – so with the DC’s blessing, we’ll grab our likely nickelback for the season, and see what’s left for the final three rounds of the draft.

72. Kitty Hawk - Duran, Luther, CB, Louisiana-Lafayette
73. Providence - Gable, Thurman, DT, Oregon State
74. Puget Sound - Bruce, Bruce, RB, Middle Tenn. St.
75. Memphis - Ballard, Devin, G, North Carolina
76. Ypsilanti - Stricklin, Kyle, T, Louisiana State
77. Death Valley - Kirk, Blake, ILB, Maryland
78. Athens - Boyer, Artie, DT, Central Michigan
79. Fort Wayne - Hawkins, J.T., WR, Central Michigan
80. Fort Knox - Logan, Bennie, WR, Washington
81. Tijuana - Weber, Kerry, ILB, Duke
82. Lake Erie - Einard, Bert, S, Rice
83. Bermuda - Groce, Perry, OLB, Texas A&M
84. Napa Valley - Quinn, Bucky, OLB, Virginia Union
85. Sacramento - Money, Jim, OLB, Stanford
86. Nashua - Briggs, Jamie, ILB, Tulane
87. Champaign - Chapman, Orlando, CB, Oklahoma
89. Sacramento - Benton, Darren, WR, Wake Forest
90. Little Rock - McIntyre, Michael, RB, Missouri Southern
91. Norfolk - Ellard, Mercury, T, UNLV
92. Texarkana - Williamson, Lincoln, G, Washington
93. Manhattan - Robbins, Bobby, T, Southern Mississippi
94. Tulsa - Whitlock, Kennedy, T, Utah
95. Louisville - Whited, Michael, S, Miami, Florida
96. Sault Ste. Marie - Hayes, Melvin, OLB, Southern California
97. Niagara Falls - Handel, Nick, WR, Alabama
98. Thunder Bay - Shannon, Michael, ILB, Army
99. Norfolk - Carter, Martin, CB, Michigan State
100. Wheeling - Ulrich, Kennedy, C, Fresno State
101. Pensacola - Rollins, Karl, WR, Rice
102. Thunder Bay - Peterson, Myron, G, Michigan
103. Fort Knox - Whitfield, Harry, C, Wake Forest

I had in the back of my mind that we might grab RB Bruce Bruce next time around, and ad my view set to the RB queue, where he was on top – but alas, he went quickly only a couple picks after ours. So, we shelve that plan – but still might be looking for a backup RB in the coming selections.

With our LB targets all off the board, I’m looking all over to find “value picks” wherever we can. I don’t know where a developmental QB fits into our plans, but Bennie Tittle out of Boston College looks like a pretty solid selection. He’s also an Aquarius, which happens to slot him pretty nicely with our current chemistry planning.

Safety Sammie Hudgins is a ballhawking guy who would give us still more secondary depth – but safety is often an easy spot to fill anyway, so hew may not be a priority here. No affinity prospects there, though.

CB Brian Shields is another CB/return man similar to Luther Duran, but still is value at this point, in my judgement (unless it turns out that guys like him are now too abundant in the TCY files, which I suppose is possible).

CB Orlando McNair is a guy I would switch to safety, and at 206 lbs I’m sure he’d switch over well – and become a top run stuffer and a good affinity addition. I like him.

There are really a number of decent backup-quality LBs out here, as well – enough to make me think it’s not a priority position right away – but it’s certainly an option. Other than the fact that there are ten draftable guys there, I’d say there were ten draftable guys there (if you get my drift).

OC Fritz had previously identified RB Brett Atkins as a target guy, a decent reserve RB and another high affinity guy. Could work here, and fill a pretty obvious team need. There are other RBs I would consider, too—Rodney Hall, Luke Withers—but Atkins is a definite “click.” Adrian Kwan is also available, and was also identified as a possible affinity addition.

Not a lot left at OL or Guard in particular – Anthony Molina and Clarence Banks would be affinity pickups, but not starters. T Andre Hines might be worth a look, but I think post-draft makes more sense that taking him here.

On the DL, there are a few marginal prospects, some of whom would have an affinity – but I have trouble seeing any of them as the most pressing need with this selection.


Any more thoughts?

If it were totally up to me, I think I'd probably go with DB McNair here, and expect to get a RB with the next pick, probably either Kwan or Atkins.

[QuikSand]

bump for some Tuesday action, hopefully.

[Buzzbee]

After reviewing the files, my thoughts:

Need positions currently (IMO):

RB (have 2) - Need a solid backup
TE (have 2) - Have starter and possible capable backup. Need depth - required position
DE? (Have 3) - Have 2 quality starters and one serviceable backup. Draft anticipating injuries?
S (have 2) - Solid starting SS, marginal starting FS. No one else.

Based on the above, I would lean toward a safety. Either Sammie Hudgins or Rodney Jefferson. Both are Scorpio, so they'd be conflict neutral.

Of course their are two TE's who are a little intriguing. We need a third TE and Andrew Small and Corey Jospeh are both Taurus like TE Diana, our receivers leader. Neither would threaten to start, but are near the top of the board in future ratings and grade.

CB Brian Shields is out since he is a Saggitarius and would conflict with Secondary leader Hawkins - Cancer. If a CB is our pick, I'd probably also second McNair.

In summary, I like either Hudgins or Jefferson as Safety. If we want to go offensive, either TE Small or Joseph. And if none of those float your boat, McNair.

I'd like to hear what OC Fritz thinks about picking a TE or RB. A TE hasn't been picked recently (at least since our last pick and probably before that). I'm thinking they are beginning to get into the value range for the CPU to start picking. However, we need a backup RB, and the pickings are getting pretty slim (perhaps so much so that it really doesn't matter who or when we take a RB).

[Bee]

Sorry I wasn't active recently. I had major work around the house to do over Labor Day weekend, which I hope to finish up tonight.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Buzzbee
After reviewing the files, my thoughts:

Need positions currently (IMO):
S (have 2) - Solid starting SS, marginal starting FS. No one else.

Based on the above, I would lean toward a safety. Either Sammie Hudgins or Rodney Jefferson. Both are Scorpio, so they'd be conflict neutral.

...

If a CB is our pick, I'd probably also second McNair.

In summary, I like either Hudgins or Jefferson as Safety. If we want to go offensive, either TE Small or Joseph. And if none of those float your boat, McNair.

While there is admittedly some added risk with my preference, I think McNair will switch over to safety pretty seamlessly, giving us a guy there with excelletn run support and very good interception skills) the two things I mainly look for there). Assuming the switch is prety painless, I think he'd be better than either of the pure safeties available.

[Fritz]

My list of total positional needs:

QB
2RB
TE
G
T
K
DE
2 MLB
2 CB
2 S
------
Just looking at off:

QB Bennie Tittle (Aquarius) could be a nice project QB. If he holds up at all he could be a starter in 2-4 seasons.

RB Bruce, Withers, Strong (whom I like a lot), and Atkins top my list

TE Freddie Donaldson looks good. I would say that if we dont get him, we should wait until after the draft to look at TE3

G Lincoln Williamson (cancer, but low leadership), Devin Ballard (Pisces, but 73 leadership) would be nice

T Lawrence Farley (Libra) strikes me as a good fit , Grant Murtaugh ( Sagittarius )will be better than advertised.

[Fritz]

PASSING OUT OF A 2 TE formation:

In a game at home I had a new QB who knew all the 2 TE fromations, 2 strong TEs and crap at WR so I tried to build a pasing game around TEs. TE2 does not seem to see any action.

[albionmoonlight]

As DC, I also vote for safety depth and will trust QS's experience on drafting McNair and switching him.

However, if we can get a potential starting QB this late (I don't have the files in front of me to check), then I might be tempted to go with Tittle here.

[Fritz]

If CB is the direction we are going, I can't see why we would look any further than Luther Duran.

[QuikSand]

Originally posted by Fritz
If CB is the direction we are going, I can't see why we would look any further than Luther Duran.

Please read above... we already drafted Luther Duran, and are another round past that pick. RB Bruce Bruce is also gone already.

[QuikSand]

I wanted to get both CB McNair and QB Tittle here, and fortunately we area able to get them both with our picks in rounds four and five – see below:

- - -

104. Kitty Hawk - McNair, Orlando, CB, Georgia

105. Providence - Bradley, Joey, G, Maryland
106. Puget Sound - Hudgins, Sammie, S, Pittsburgh
107. Memphis - Jarvis, Corwin, FB, Michigan
108. Ypsilanti - DeWaters, Hardy, FB, Stanford
109. Death Valley - Upshaw, Antoine, G, Akron
110. Athens - Dragonajtys, Scottie, T, Oklahoma
111. Fort Wayne - Rice, Robert, OLB, Iowa State
112. Fort Knox - Jefferson, Rodney, S, Western Michigan
113. Ocean City - Benson, Rex, OLB, Ball State
114. Lake Erie - Erickson, Carlos, K, Miami, Ohio
115. Bermuda - Lyons, Billy Joe, DT, Stanford
116. Napa Valley - Small, Andrew, TE, Michigan
117. Key West - Donaldson, Freddie, TE, Wake Forest
118. Nashua - Whalen, Luke, WR, Auburn
119. Champaign - Cuomo, Jessie, ILB, Virginia Tech
120. Cheyenne - Shields, Brian, CB, Florida
121. Sacramento - McNeil, Derrick, S, Army
122. Little Rock - Vallejo, T.J., WR, Texas A&M
123. Champaign - Goodwin, Herman, ILB, Rice
124. Texarkana - Chitwood, Joe, TE, Texas Tech
125. Manhattan - Mahoney, Nicky, OLB, Ohio State
126. Tulsa - Fletcher, Tommie, CB, Baylor
127. Louisville - Hutton, Jumbo, WR, Arkansas State
128. Providence - Gilmore, Brad, S, Michigan
129. Niagara Falls - Riley, Carlos, S, Texas Christian
130. Thunder Bay - Wertlieb, J.J., CB, Texas A&M
131. Norfolk - Hofmann, Geoff, WR, Missouri
132. Wheeling - Goga, Daryl, CB, Virginia Tech
133. Pensacola - Murtaugh, Grant, T, Arkansas
134. Tijuana - Derricott, Kent, S, Louisville
135. Hawk Mountain - Farmer, Sammie, G, Texas A&M

36. Kitty Hawk - Tittle, Bennie, QB, Boston College

137. Providence - Brautlacht, Glen, G, Louisiana State
138. Puget Sound - Moore, Jake, DT, North Texas
139. Memphis - Henson, Edwin, S, UAB
140. Ypsilanti - Mitchell, Norm, CB, Texas Tech
141. Death Valley - Hewitt, Charles, WR, Wake Forest
142. Athens - Jenkins, Phillip, C, Wisconsin
143. Fort Wayne - Mitchell, Colin, OLB, Colorado
144. Fort Knox - Harrison, Bo, S, California
145. Ocean City - Centeno, Tommy, WR, Baylor
146. Providence - Clement, Korey, WR, Southern California
147. Bermuda - Farley, Lawrence, T, Arkansas
148. Napa Valley - Keyes, Joey, G, Washington State
149. Key West - Lovejoy, Emmanuel, G, Miami, Ohio
150. Nashua - Cardona, Leland, OLB, West Virginia
151. Champaign - Banks, Deon, S, Virginia Tech
152. Cheyenne - Anthony, Malcolm, G, Fresno State
153. Sacramento - Koethe, Deion, DE, Texas Christian
154. Little Rock - Willis, Sedrick, OLB, Edinboro
155. Mazatlan - Rios, Adam, S, Virginia Tech
156. Texarkana - Pence, Wesley, DE, Tennessee
157. Manhattan - Anthony, Sherman, FB, San Jose State
158. Tulsa - Stablein, Rich, WR, Alabama
159. Hawk Mountain - Rivers, Jim, OLB, Louisiana-Lafayette
160. Sault Ste. Marie - Joseph, Cory, TE, Illinois
161. Niagara Falls - Shaw, Desmond, TE, Rice
162. Thunder Bay - Hines, Andre, T, Syracuse
163. Norfolk - Whelan, Corwin, OLB, Cincinnati
164. Wheeling - Meier, Harris, OLB, Missouri
165. Pensacola - Morris, Scott, DE, Northern Illinois
166. Tijuana - Shaw, Ron, WR, Nevada
167. Ypsilanti - Carbajal, Lonnie, DT, Florida State

So, we are up to our selection in round six – with two more rookie to lock up for at least two seasons.

My quick look sees a few guys we have talked about still out there:
RB Adrian Kwan
RB Brett Atkins
LB Damon McPherson
CB Drew Shannon
... and I’m sure there are others.

Get me some feedback, and I will move through the rest of the draft later today, if possible.

[QuikSand]

File update #1 of 2

[Fritz]

Originally posted by QuikSand
Please read above... we already drafted Luther Duran, and are another round past that pick. RB Bruce Bruce is also gone already.

oh, playing the high and mighty "I drive the ship on this highway" guy are you?

fine

[QuikSand]

File update #2 of 2

[QuikSand]

By the way, Orlando McNair made a seamless transition to free safety - his rating even increased slightly in the switch. So, I think we can plug him in as our third guy there, unless he has a disastrous camp.

I'll be away until late afternoon at least... but I think we have enough to go on to pick up the appropriate fillers.

If you're making recommendations, please do check for a personality conflict - I'll try to check everyone we pick up, but I don't want to blow a draft pick if I miss one somewhere.

[Fritz]

I hope Tittle sticks.

his formation slection is not that broad, but the ones he does know are good passing formations (weak, pro, single).

[Fritz]

From the O point of view, we need a #2 RB and a backup T.

[Fritz]

Just a little diversion since we have 4 QB on the roster now.

Who should our starting QB be?

In a nutshell:

Hutchens:

timing/short game guy who knows when to get rid of the ball but gets confused when the defense shifts looks. has problems on 3rd down. Gets along well with RB & Oline leader. No game day time.

Heath Sparks:

His game is all about timing, but he is adequate at everything. One of the most popular players in the league despite his 21-37 record. Gets laong well with OL leader.

Jon Clayton:

Lone holdover from last season. Knows the home turf. Still considered a prospect.

Bennie Tittle:

The rook.

----------

My feeling is that Sparks is our guy. Both Hutchens and Sparks have 15 formations in their playbook, but Sparks undertands running formations a little better. Sparks is also rated better on 3rd down, which may be important when it comes to keeping a drive alive. Sparks is also a little better at the long ball.

If we opt to go with Hutchens the team should expect to gear up for a short game, which might be a problem for our starting FB (Kowalski).

[albionmoonlight]

Do you believe in picking a guy and sticking with him through thick and thin, or do you believe in shaking things up during the season and giving the bench guys a shot if #1 isn't getting it done?

[Fritz]

Originally posted by albionmoonlight
Do you believe in picking a guy and sticking with him through thick and thin, or do you believe in shaking things up during the season and giving the bench guys a shot if #1 isn't getting it done?

depends.

I am generally in favor of starting a slotted player the whole season unless I see certain problems. My first step will be to take a good look at the gameplan and see if it is causing the problem.

[QuikSand]

I will be tied up until late this evening, but plan to continue with the draft and then fill out the roster either late tonight, or (morte likely) tomorrow morning. Once again, please get any target players (either for draft picks or post-draft acquisitions) in this thread - I will use that input as we acquire players.

I think we need to get past this phase and into the gameplanning and preseason stuff.

Also - if anyone has particular thoughts about training camp - that's not to far away. I have yet to do any experimenting at all in ther FOF4 model, so I know nothing about it. Do our coordinators have thoughts?