The 2011 NBA Offseason---Stern says no - Page 5

stevew · 06-30-2011, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

The whole idea of "protecting" draft picks seems stupid to me. I wish they'd just get rid of that whole thing.

It's the Celtics and Lakers fault probably. Can't have situations where the Lakers win the Title and draft #1 overall. Or Bias at #2 after the Celtics won.

whomario · 07-01-2011, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As for Casspi, well, he took a big step backwards last season, but hopefully he can turn it around. I honestly have no strong feelings about him one way or the other, but he at the very least gives us a shooter on the wing.

that Sacramento team was a mess last year though and there´s so many weird stories coming out that i tend to think of the "where there´s smoke, there´s fire" saying, aparantly was an ugly locker room with a coaching staff that more or less didn´t care to put in the effort to disciplin it and/or develop the players.
They also had some of the weirdest rotations i´ve ever seen, it was like Westphal threw dices to determine when to sub which player.

The guy plays hard, is pretty athletic and has a good basketball IQ, i´d figure that if his shooting returns to normal next year he is a good option at SF, propably a starting caliber guy in a year or 2 imo.

Hickson allways struck me as a guy who´d be really good in a defined role but doesn´t have the mindset to play such a role. He´s just not good enough to warrant being a first or 2nd option, you need to be too creative and sacrifice too much to get him into positions to score. Bad passer and doesn´t have the skills to just "go score".

Gary Gorski · 07-01-2011, 09:54 AM

I'm amazed by the stupidity yet again in pro sports. The NBA has been virtually irrelevant in the sporting landscape for pretty much the past decade and now they finally have everything in place - worldwide appeal, marketable and talented young players, major market teams with good players and the ultimate PR gift of the Miami Heat...and they're going to flush it all down the toilet.

I mean really, how hard is this to figure out? The players side needs a reality check. You're being paid millions of dollars to play a game and you're the replaceable parts in the machine here. True, without today's players the league wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting but without 30 groups pumping in insane amounts of money for a game there's no league at all. Those franchises are going to be there 15 years from now - LeBron won't be.

The owners on the whole are pretty dumb IMO. An NBA franchise is not a business - its a life sized toy - and as long as you let them make a couple of bucks on the deal and get to roll around town as a big shot sports owner then they're going to keep feeding the machine. They're going to keep letting David Kahn's of the world dole out $20 million to all the Darkos out there. They're going to be convinced that semi-star players playing for bad teams should be paid $20 million a year (hello Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas). They will keep funding your amazing lifestyle...until they see a red number in the bank account. Then they're going to want it all back like they do now.

The players are putting it all on the line for the likes of Eddy Curry essentially. The owners want a hard cap to save themselves from themselves and their management team. They want to know that they're not going to have more than $X in costs. That's the kind of stuff ownership says when they're losing money and the fun has stopped and they turn their attention to pinching pennies. This isn't about having to pay LeBron James $16 million - its about having to pay Rashard Lewis $22 million. Eddy Curry got paid tens of millions of dollars to sit around and get fatter. That's what is going to make the guy writing the checks stop and decide he needs to look into what the hell is going on with the checks he is writing.

It just seems the answer was simple - let the owners win. Yes, win so they would continue to pay the players millions of dollars to play a game and feel good about doing it. Eliminating guaranteed contracts would go a long way in this deal. Doing so gives small market teams or teams that nobody wants to play for (like Toronto) the option to overpay a player to come there (big win for the players side) with the ability to get out from a bad deal if it doesn't work out (big win for the owners). It's not like if the player turns into a really good player and is putting butts in the seats that they're going to get rid of him. They're only going to get rid of him if he ends up sucking (Eddy Curry) and why shouldn't they? And if you're willing to give up the guaranteed contracts then the owners don't need to push for a hard cap - in fact it would be more beneficial to some of them not to have such a cap because the hard cap is only going to spread out the talent more rather than allow teams to stockpile "big 3s".

If you avoid the hard cap you avoid a reason for teams to exercise their right to dump a contract just because they have to stay under the cap. So at that point a team is really only going to dump a contract if the player just isn't worth the money and 29 other teams agree that he's not worth the money (ie nobody will trade for him). The only other reason teams might dump a contract is if they're trying to free up enough cap space to go after a free agent. How many teams would have cut contracts to get LeBron? Doesn't that make it better for the players giving them the ultimate flexibility? And if a decent player is cut to make room for a big star its not like he's SOL. If he's worth $5 million someone else will pay him that (or more).

Essentially the LeBron's and Melos of the league are offering right now to take less than a "fair wage" based on their talents in order for players with little to no NBA talent to collect far more than they are worth. How has Billy Hunter sold that to the majority of the NBA players?

If management is paying you 30 cents a day to produce shoes then yes, you dig your heels in and you fight for the right to a livable wage for your labor. When management is paying you a million dollars to in some cases practice basketball for a couple hours a day, workout and wear a nice suit and watch a basketball game courtside you work on keeping ownership happy enough to keep writing those checks.

The damnest thing of it all is that the game really felt ready to pop once again and if had been given that chance and the owners were not only starting to make money but make more than they even expected with a rise in popularity the players could have easily ended up with even more money. The "soft cap" could have increased, salaries could have increased and pretty much everyone outside of those handful of guys who are being WAY overpaid would have been better off. Instead we're at a lockout, the season is being threatened, that momentum is ready to fall off a cliff and the owners are just going to get more and more pissed off and ask for more and more concessions especially if they are losing less money by not operating at all. The players didn't need this fight and they shouldn't have wanted this fight.

RainRaven · 07-01-2011, 10:09 AM

So the players are suppose to just give up a large amount of the total pie to save the owners from themselves? Eddy Curry didn't force a owner to give him that amount of money. Rashard Lewis didn't force anybody to pay him 22 million dollars to be at best a good player and not a superstar.

I would agree with you partly that I think the players need to give up some of the financial percentage that they have now but if I were them I would then go after all of the side benefits possible. Shorter time until FA for example in exchange for the financial concessions. Both sides are to blame for the current financial state of the NBA but the owners have to give the players some growth opportunities in the contract or why agree to something that is a huge decline in what you have when the game was at it's MOST popular last year.

bronconick · 07-01-2011, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Essentially the LeBron's and Melos of the league are offering right now to take less than a "fair wage" based on their talents in order for players with little to no NBA talent to collect far more than they are worth. How has Billy Hunter sold that to the majority of the NBA players?

Because for every LeBron and Melo there's a dozen guys making a hell of a lot more money than they are probably worth? It's easier to sell the Union on those two hundred overpaid players as opposed to the 98 lockout, when they resisted so long over a max-ed out salary limit that about 25 players would ever have to worry about.

Gary Gorski · 07-01-2011, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainRaven

So the players are suppose to just give up a large amount of the total pie to save the owners from themselves? Eddy Curry didn't force a owner to give him that amount of money. Rashard Lewis didn't force anybody to pay him 22 million dollars to be at best a good player and not a superstar.

I would agree with you partly that I think the players need to give up some of the financial percentage that they have now but if I were them I would then go after all of the side benefits possible. Shorter time until FA for example in exchange for the financial concessions. Both sides are to blame for the current financial state of the NBA but the owners have to give the players some growth opportunities in the contract or why agree to something that is a huge decline in what you have when the game was at it's MOST popular last year.

Of course the owners are to blame for Eddy Curry and Rashard Lewis. I don't fault the players for getting the contracts - I'm not turning down $20 million for a year of work if someone offers it to me. But if the owners decide its not fun to pay obscene amounts of cash anymore to watch grown men play basketball then there's no more NBA.

I didn't even say the players needed to give up the current take they get in terms of revenue. All I said was they need to let the owners out of bad deals. I think it was Bill Simmons who did an article where he talked about the 300m in losses and then rattled off the most egregious contracts in the league and that alone would have covered the losses.

As for why agree to it? Because if the owners take their ball and go home you're looking at doing what exactly if you are an NBA player? Going to play overseas? If that's so great why are guys like Josh Childress back in the NBA? Taking their college degrees to get jobs in their fields...oops, not many have them do they and the ones that do...how many jobs are there for "general studies" in the work place when people with masters degrees can't find jobs? You agree to it because maybe you're not being paid as much as you could be but you're still being paid far more money than most people and for doing something you love.

I'm not suggesting the players should have shown up and told the owners to put down whatever they wanted and that's how it would go. I said they should have given in on something major, shown the owners how that would save them from their financials missteps, taken a little less here or there, gotten, like you said, a couple of small concessions for their own personal benefit and called it a day rather than daring the owners to dig in and see just who can outlast who and give the owners more time to think about what else they can win in this negotiation.

stevew · 07-01-2011, 10:23 AM

All they need to do us basically increase the escrow % to about 20(from 8) and the current system works fine. Plus I'd figure out how to protect a guy's first 2m from escrow and tax the amounts over 4m at a higher rate.

RainRaven · 07-01-2011, 10:29 AM

Of course the owners have more options as to what to do during the lockout, they always do in any professional sport in a situation like this (Though as a side note the audience is paying money to see the players not the owners play on that court). I think at the end the players will give in quite a bit financially but I think they would have done so quicker if the owners actually intertwined the revenue sharing into the discussions instead of Stern acting as though that is a separate issue. It's a shame that no matter what it's another situation with two rich groups of people arguing about who gets the biggest slice of pie and not truly negotiating yet it seems.

Gary Gorski · 07-01-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick

Because for every LeBron and Melo there's a dozen guys making a hell of a lot more money than they are probably worth? It's easier to sell the Union on those two hundred overpaid players as opposed to the 98 lockout, when they resisted so long over a max-ed out salary limit that about 25 players would ever have to worry about.

But you know what, if there's not a hard cap then teams are still going to pay players more than they're worth. They always have and always will. Minnesota is still going to put $5 million bucks in Darko's bank account this season. He's still fairly young, a seven footer, he showed that when he was healthy he could block shots and grab some boards and its enough promise that they can justify $5 million as being not THAT bad...as long as they're making money. It's the guys like Rip Hamilton, Rashard Lewis, Antawn Jamison, Brandon Roy, Corey Maggette, DeSagna Diop, formerly Eddy Curry...those are the guys teams are going to be done with.

I think it also sets up teams better to keep stars around. Lets say Duncan wants another deal and he thinks he can play 3 more years. Without a guarantee in place the Spurs have no reason not to give Duncan that 3 year deal and if he proves he can't play anymore than they can walk away. Everyone wins there - Duncan gets the deal he wants and the chance to earn that money and the Spurs get the security they want knowing if he doesn't they can walk away if they want to.

If there's a hard cap in addition to it then that changes everything - then yes, players are going to get cut left and right and only brought back at what they're "worth" because teams have to try and fit so many players in under X dollars.

Gary Gorski · 07-01-2011, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainRaven

Of course the owners have more options as to what to do during the lockout, they always do in any professional sport in a situation like this (Though as a side note the audience is paying money to see the players not the owners play on that court). I think at the end the players will give in quite a bit financially but I think they would have done so quicker if the owners actually intertwined the revenue sharing into the discussions instead of Stern acting as though that is a separate issue. It's a shame that no matter what it's another situation with two rich groups of people arguing about who gets the biggest slice of pie and not truly negotiating yet it seems.

But that's why I don't understand the players in these situations. Lets say they all quit - will the NBA be able to find people who play basketball and would like to make $100,000+ a year to do it? Will the players be able to find someone else willing to pay them up to $20 million a year to play basketball for them? Yes the game is worse off and less watchable (or not watchable) with replacement players BUT the league would rebound more and more with the influx of new talent each year. Those players will never find someone who is going to pay them that kind of money to play basketball.

This situation is different than the NFL. The NFL owners are making crazy money too so they have something at stake in the battle. The NBA owners are not making that kind of money while the players in each sport are both making crazy money. That's why I think this is such a failure on the players part - they're trying to play a strong hand (rise in popularity) from a horribly weak position. Had they gone in and given the owners something huge right off the bat then maybe it levels the playing field a little and some negotiating could be done. Instead now we've just got two sides dug in and its going to get ugly with the owners having the ultimate control in the situation as usual.

albionmoonlight · 07-01-2011, 10:40 AM

The NFL model of semi-guaranteed contracts (i.e. signing bonuses that cannot be taken back and that are pro-rated against the cap) seems, by far, like the best and most fair solution.

The LeBrons of the world will demand and receive bonus heavy contracts. The Darkos of the world will get short contracts with low bonuses while they try to prove themselves.

As long as the teams and agents understand the game (i.e. it is all about bonus money), then it works out fairly.

albionmoonlight · 07-01-2011, 10:46 AM

dola: In fact, as NFL contracts have gotten most sophisticated, you can see how people can use that system to engineer some pretty worthwhile deals.

Players will get a "7 year" contract, with a reasonable bonus and three years of reasonable salary. Then, in the offseason before year four, the player is owed a roster bonus equal to the GDP of Australia. Of course, the parties know that that bonus will never be paid, but it forces the team at that point to either renegotiate the player or cut him before it is due. So, with creative use of the money, everybody knows that that is really a three year deal with a some basic parameters set out for renegotiating after that point. This allows the parties maximum flexibility and the ability to look out for their own interests.

Gary Gorski · 07-01-2011, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

dola: In fact, as NFL contracts have gotten most sophisticated, you can see how people can use that system to engineer some pretty worthwhile deals.

Players will get a "7 year" contract, with a reasonable bonus and three years of reasonable salary. Then, in the offseason before year four, the player is owed a roster bonus equal to the GDP of Australia. Of course, the parties know that that bonus will never be paid, but it forces the team at that point to either renegotiate the player or cut him before it is due. So, with creative use of the money, everybody knows that that is really a three year deal with a some basic parameters set out for renegotiating after that point. This allows the parties maximum flexibility and the ability to look out for their own interests.

I think that the ultimate solution lies in blending the best of the NFL system with the best of the NBA system. How much better off would the NFL be with a set draft pay scale like the NBA? Clearly the NBA would be better off with the NFL semi-guaranteed model of contracts. With the NFL being the king of all sports I think it would be foolish not to look at it as a model.

Noop · 07-04-2011, 06:44 PM

RainMaker · 07-04-2011, 08:44 PM

The thing is that there is a salary cap right now. And the proposed new hard cap is actually a little more than what the soft cap is currently set at. So this entire lockout is based around the fact that owners can't control themselves.

I understand there are issues with small vs big market teams and competition. But that's a revenue sharing issue. The owners want every team to make money regardless of how poorly they are run or where they are located.

RainMaker · 07-04-2011, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

But that's why I don't understand the players in these situations. Lets say they all quit - will the NBA be able to find people who play basketball and would like to make $100,000+ a year to do it? Will the players be able to find someone else willing to pay them up to $20 million a year to play basketball for them? Yes the game is worse off and less watchable (or not watchable) with replacement players BUT the league would rebound more and more with the influx of new talent each year. Those players will never find someone who is going to pay them that kind of money to play basketball.

The NBA is star driven though. Yes they could throw replacement players and bring in new talent, but it would take a decade to build a base of players worth seeing. Can the league survive that? We have other options for sports in this country. We've seen some leagues bounce back to an effect after work stoppages, but what you're talking about is an extreme.

I pay $110 a ticket per game on my season ticket package for the Bulls. I wouldn't pay $10 a ticket for a season of watching D-League talent. The reason I spend the money and watch the games is because I enjoy seeing Derrick Rose play. I enjoy seeing guys like Lebron, Durant, Wade, and so on come in on a nightly basis and play. I'm not paying or even caring to watch Curtis Stinson star.

Yes the owners will always have leverage because they are billionaires and don't give a shit about a year off. But they do need the players to survive. TNT and ESPN are not offering huge dollars to televise crap. No one is tuning in to see crap. And definitely no one is paying big bucks to sit and watch crap in a jersey of a crap player.

bhlloy · 07-04-2011, 09:17 PM

The NBA owners need to be very, very careful what they wish for. This isn't the NFL where the US is the only country in the world that really plays football and they are the only game in town. There are a lot of leagues around the world that are well supported, have a decent amount of money and would love to pay these guys more than an average wage for a couple of years while the NBA realizes the corner they have backed themselves into.

Don't usually agree with Rainmaker but he's dead on here. The NBA is a star driven league and it's dead without the stars. And the owners don't have a leg to stand on because all these guys can go and make a couple hundred thousand tax free in Europe for a couple of years. I don't know what the answer is but it's going to be painful and it's going to be really bad for the league.

Noop · 07-04-2011, 09:27 PM

After I saw the documentary about the Seattle Sonics I am convinced that David Stern is a man out of touch with reality. This lockout is Stern's fault for caving into the demands of the owners. Instead of forcing them to be smart with their money he coddles their stupidity.

I side with players on this one. It sucks that there is a possibility of having no NBA next season but the owners brought it upon themselves.

Warhammer · 07-04-2011, 11:06 PM

I think this actually gives the NBA a chance if things work out right. I am a firm believer that what is healthy for a league is marketing teams, not players. This gives the NBA the chance to retool their marketing.

A big part of what created the Magic v. Bird mystique was the teams they played for. Sure they were stars, but they went to the two most storied teams in the league.

RainMaker · 07-04-2011, 11:15 PM

No it wasn't. It was because it was Bird vs Magic. We had teams like the Celtics in the Finals many times and the ratings were atrocious. The Celtics played in the 1981 Finals to record low ratings.

Groundhog · 07-05-2011, 12:12 AM

Even if the entire season goes, I'll be shocked if some of these big names play overseas. For starters, they aren't going to be getting as much money as the probably think, as there are few teams that could afford a multi-million dollar contract, let alone enough cash to make it worth risking an injury, especially to US players who are currently or about to be free agents.

Neon_Chaos · 07-05-2011, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

WHO THE HELL IS AL HARTFORD?

Arles · 07-05-2011, 04:24 PM

Just a quick aside. Numerous people have said the Suns would have moved Amare to the Cavs for the Jamison package had the Cavs included Hickson. So, in a bit of a rewind, I wonder what would have happened had Lebron and Amare had a big playoff run in the 2009 playoffs following that deal? Would Lebron have stayed in Cleveland with Amare? Would Amare and Lebron have gelled and end up going to NY together?

A lot of what ifs, but we will never know all because Danny Ferry wouldn't part with Hickson to land Amare

MikeVic · 07-05-2011, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Just a quick aside. Numerous people have said the Suns would have moved Amare to the Cavs for the Jamison package had the Cavs included Hickson. So, in a bit of a rewind, I wonder what would have happened had Lebron and Amare had a big playoff run in the 2009 playoffs following that deal? Would Lebron have stayed in Cleveland with Amare? Would Amare and Lebron have gelled and end up going to NY together?

A lot of what ifs, but we will never know all because Danny Ferry wouldn't part with Hickson to land Amare

I never understood that. Wouldn't Hickson's potential peak be someone like Amare that scored a bit less but rebounded a bit more? Why value him so highly? Can someone please explain?

Groundhog · 07-05-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I never understood that. Wouldn't Hickson's potential peak be someone like Amare that scored a bit less but rebounded a bit more? Why value him so highly? Can someone please explain?

I guess there was always the possibility he might be able to play defense as well.

stevew · 07-05-2011, 10:42 PM

Arles- supposedly the Suns were the team that said no. According to other sources. I can't believe the Cavs valued Hickson more than Amare.

stevew · 07-05-2011, 10:51 PM

Gloria James vs. Amare's mom would have made for an epic whore off.

MrBug708 · 07-05-2011, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

I cant see Kobe going to play in a difference country at this point

Arles · 07-06-2011, 12:14 AM

You never know, but this local guy had it that the Suns would have accepted the deal for Hickson. The other beat reporter said the same thing:

Gambo: What now for Amare, Suns? - ArizonaSports.com

Quote:

The Suns had two teams vying for Stoudemire's services, Miami and Cleveland, and were willing to deal their All-Star center if they could have received a "home run" package. They had serious discussions with Cleveland on a deal that would have landed them second-year power forward JJ Hickson, the expiring contract of Zydrunas Ilgauskas, forward Danny Green, the Cavs first-round pick and cash. The Suns were not willing to take anything less from the Cavs in order to move Stoudemire and the Cavs eventually found a trade partner in Washington that enabled them to land Antwan Jamison without giving up Hickson.

cartman · 07-08-2011, 01:54 PM

Yao Ming announces his retirement.

Yahoo report: Yao Ming to retire - Game On!: Covering the Latest Sports News

whomario · 07-14-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

Yao Ming announces his retirement.

Yahoo report: Yao Ming to retire - Game On!: Covering the Latest Sports News

sad news indeed

Propably my favourite player of the last decade and actually he was the main reason i started watching the NBA more seriously. When he got injured in the Lakers series that was among my worst days as a sports fan, it just felt so freaking unfair after what he´d gone through allready, his amazing personality and work ethic and just after he had a moment that could have been career defining moment (coming back from a knee bump in game 1 at Staples and then hitting key buckets en route to posting a 28/10 and totally owning the Lakers FC that night) if he had any sort of normal career...

The sad thing is he was one of those guys where people allways looked at his percived "gift" of being so tall as the reason he was good without considering that that height and weight also was a big burden (not just with the injuries but also on the court) and that he was just as much an incredibly skilled player that had to put in a great deal of work to overcome his deficits.
In a way he was just as unique but also challenged as a 7´1 guy would be if he tried to play and defend Small Forwards.

also the Rockets supporting cast from 04 to 07 makes the Heat role players look competent (fun fact : Did you know they started 17 different guys in the 04/05 season ?)

When people say he would have struggled in the 80s or 90s and was only good because the talent at Center was bad i get a good chuckle as Yao was by far at his best when facing traditional big men. Ask Dwight Howard.
Yao in a slower paced league with more 1:1 coverage and no real zone defenses would have benefitted immensely on offense as well as defensively he´d have been more at ease defending big guys instead of 6´9/610 shooters and a less strict hand-check rule.

stevew · 07-15-2011, 10:19 AM

I actually always hated Ming. The china can vote for the AS game stuff was BS. For as tall as he was, he was never a good rebounder or shotblocker. I'd have expected him to post significantly better numbers than 2 blocks, or about 9.5 rebounds.

I understand his place in the game, etc, but I'm glad he's gone.

Arles · 07-15-2011, 11:36 AM

Yeah, I don't really get the Yao love either. He was a pure Euro big man (nice set shot from 8-15 feet, but little rebound/defense) and was constantly hurt. I think he was a solid player to have on a team, but no different than a lot of guys in the NBA. 18-20 PPG, 8-10 RPG and a ton of missed games for 5-6 seasons seems like a slightly above average career to me and nothing more. To me, guys like Al Jefferson and Elton Brand will be just as productive (for a longer period) and I doubt you will have near the hub-bub when they retire as Yao got.

stevew · 07-16-2011, 02:41 PM

Somehow Ibaka is now a Spaniard which gives them at least 5 solid players(Rubio/Gasols/Rudy Fernandez). They might be worth investing in for the Olympic Gold if the odds are good enough.

whomario · 07-16-2011, 04:03 PM

Don´t forget Calderon and Navarro (you know, the guy with the 15 foot floater that allways goes in when the game is close

). Then further down the depth chart you have guys like Llull who was Real Madrid´s best player, or Victor Claver who both could play a role in the NBA right now.

Heck, their 12th man from the previous tournaments (Fernando San Emeterio) made the All-Euroleague 1st team and was the MVP of the spanish league this past season ... He also plays the only position that had trouble to fill previously (Small Forward)

Their preliminary roster doesn´t even include recent first round pick Mirotic, former NBA PG Raul Lopez or Fran Vazquez who was a big contributor in recent tournaments.

They have by far the most talent outside the US squad, definitely.

stevew · 07-16-2011, 04:15 PM

The matchups should be interesting. And the depressing thought is that next year's Olympic tourney might be the NEXT competitive pro basketball I/we watch. Gotta figure the US will need to bring at least Howard and Chandler to check Spain, plus a guy like Carmelo would probably get killed if he has to try to guard a Gasol brother. All kinds of questions such is Kobe going to want to play again. Can you play Durant or Melo in the post. Is the US going to be smart enough to bring a JJ Reddick or Jimmer or Curry type that can destroy a zone. I can't wait.

whomario · 07-16-2011, 04:18 PM

Overall the upcoming Eurobasket (starts august 31st) could be really, really good. I´ll keep you posted with streaming links if you´d like to see some basketball (albeit at unusual times with the different time zone) then

The last couple tournaments a lot of teams missed key players, this year it looks as if most teams are pretty much at full strength.

Not good news for the german team i´m afraid, even if Nowitzki plays they´ll be in for a tough fight to even come close to qualifying for the London games (i think the first 2 go automatically, 3-5 earn spots in an aditional qualifying tourney).

earlier in the month Lithuania won the U19 WC btw with Raptors draft pick Valanciunas being by far the best player in the tournament (24/14 on 60% shooting, 30/15 against the US, 36/8 in the final), he´ll likely also be in the Eurobasket squad.

Enes Kanter will also play for Turkey who are in the same group as spain and Lithuania

Neon_Chaos · 07-17-2011, 09:05 PM

Woot woot.

NBA players in basketball crazy Philippines!

NBA stars here vs Gilas, PBA

NBA MVP Derrick Rose joining Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul in Manila after all

Neon_Chaos · 07-23-2011, 08:24 AM

Woowoo!

Watching Kobe, CP3, Rose, Fisher, Evans, Durant, Harden, Mcgee, and Derrick Williams live here.

To be fair, the Philippine All Stars are keeping the game close.

This is so awesome!

Noop · 07-23-2011, 10:17 AM

I have a solution for the small market teams. No more guaranteed contracts with an exception give teams the ability to sign their own free agents to guaranteed contracts (3 years max). If a player leaves for another team he gives up guaranteed money and is subject to being cut for under performing.

whomario · 07-23-2011, 10:39 AM

Nowitzki and Kaman yesterday commited for the Eurobasket. Could care less about Kaman, but seeing the younger german players get zje chance to finally play with the Dirk is great, hope they somehow manage a Top5 finish to keep the olympics hope alive (tough group and tough table for the first ko stages though ...)
Talent level really still isn´t the greatest, to put it mildly. 3rd or 4th best players propably wouldn´t play more than a few spot minutes for teams like Spain, turkey, france or lithuania ...

stevew · 08-12-2011, 06:59 PM

I'm listening to Stern on the BS Report. I really think that there isn't going to be a season. In fact, unless principle parties in the negotiation change, I'm not sure this will ever resolve itself.

DeToxRox · 08-12-2011, 07:32 PM

A good friend of mine works as a n owners assistant. He asked him when he'd get to go to some home games and the owner's exact quote was "When the players realize we have them bent over a fucking barrel".

Atocep · 08-12-2011, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm listening to Stern on the BS Report. I really think that there isn't going to be a season. In fact, unless principle parties in the negotiation change, I'm not sure this will ever resolve itself.

We'll start to see some strides made when some of the players have missed half of a season's worth of paychecks and the rest are tired of making less money living in Europe. We probably won't have a season this year, but the players will cave eventually and they'll end up with a deal like the NHLPA took.

Neon_Chaos · 08-14-2011, 01:33 PM

Recap of the awesome event that was held in the Philippines last month.

Still can't believe it actually happened.

Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant played in Manila last weekend. Why? - Grantland

whomario · 08-17-2011, 05:18 PM

Nice article on Grantland about Arvydas Sabonis : Jonathan Abrams on the long, strange trip of Arvydas Sabonis - Grantland

not exactly much new stuff, but still a good read with a few details that usually aren´t in articles on him. And even if you aren´t interested in Sabonis, it also features some real solid Bill Walton hyperbole

definitely one of the big what-if stories of the NBA (heck, as it was he still averaged 18/11 with 3 assists per 36 minutes for his NBA career on a pretty good team)

whomario · 08-27-2011, 10:06 PM

only a couple days to go before the Eurobasket

EuroBasket 2011

GROUP A: Spain, Turkey, Lithuania, United Kingdom, Poland, Portugal

GROUP B: Serbia, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Latvia.

GROUP C: Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finnland

GROUP D: Slovenia, Russia, Belgium, Georgia, Bulgaria, Ukraine.

3 teams advance to a 2nd group stage where they then play 3 games against the top3 from the partner-group (A and B ; C and D).
Bolded the teams i think will advance.

Germany has a pretty tough group, although they caught a break with Israel (Casspi) and Latvia (Biedrins) missing very key players.

But Serbia is one of the facourites to win it all with a super deep squad, France has tons of talent (but imo will fall short) and Italy has great potential with Bargnani, Gallinari and Bellinelli.

The preperation games went smoothly enough for the german team, but it will still need monster games from Nowitzki to have any shot at even the 6th place finish to get a shot at the olympics in another qualifying tourney next summer (only the 2 finalists qualify directly)

For some reason the german coach continues to think it is a good idea to start a PG (Steffen Hamann) who can´t shoot or score at the basket and isn´t a very good passer and now decided to pair him with an SG who can´t shoot or score either ... (Jo Herber who is a great defender though, some guys might remember him from his days as a 4 year starter at West Virginia from 02-06)

whomario · 08-31-2011, 04:01 PM

first day of Eurobasket 2011 just ended, no real suprises but a couple too-close-for-comfort wins by the favourites.

things that stood out from watching and stat-wise with a focus on NBA players/prospects :

-Spain with their usual slow start, just barely edge Poland (no Gortat or Lampe). Pau had 29, Marc 16.

-France vs Latvia was a very nice game ending 89-78, Parker had 31 points and got whatever he wanted most of the time. NOah (10 pts) and Diaw (14) did a nice job inside and later adjusted well to the zone, passing the ball out of the middle to the shooters (who were mostly ice cold though).
For Latvia Janis Blums did his best Steve Nash impression scoring 32 from all over the court (should have shot even more though, went 12/18) while executing the PnR very well.
Spurs Draft Pick Davis Bertans looked very good in limited minutes, had an awesome block and scored well, suprisingly with a couple nice moves to the basket.

- Italy looses to Serbia, the NBA guys (Bargnani, Gallinari, Bellinelli) had no help at all. Serbia is just fun to watch, a bunch of young but allready experienced and smart players that simply do their job. They have no star, but great chemistry.

-Germany with the most lopsided win of the day against Israel, 91-64. I´m pleasently surprised

Kaman 18/10 in 20 minutes, Nowitzki with 25 after never topping 15 in the warmup-games. Got some nice help from Benzing (12), Schaffartzik (10) and Schwethelm (9).

-Enes Kanter looked very good for Turkey in an easy win over Portugal, scored 14 on 7-9 shooting.

-Lithuania beats GB 80-69. Valanciunas surprisingly little playing time, old man Sarunas Jasikevicius scores 13, nearly-as-old Kaukenas scores 16. Deng had 25/10 for GB, they didn´t get any help from their bench though (4 of their starters combined for all but 2 of the team points)

stevew · 09-06-2011, 10:35 PM

I'm always happy in times like these that some player rep like Derek frickin Fisher is gonna decide whether or not the other players play basketball. Isnt there a player from a more prestigious school than Ark-Little Rock available? Maybe an ivy leaguer or a non-sociology Duke guy? It's bad enough that players like Fisher(and Michael Curry before him) who wouldn't be on the starting team of many rec leagues, stay in the league due to generous guaranteed deals and their amassed wealth of political power. We've got the NBA version of Kevin Mawae set to go to the mattresses so that Eddie Curry can make 13 million.

And the owners are content to not play in order to protect the profitability of David Sterling, a fucking housing discriminator.

Anyways, I just wanna see basketball.

whomario · 09-07-2011, 05:09 PM

meanwhile the Eurobasket just started the 2nd group stage today and has allready had a couple awesome games, tonight Lithuania beat Serbia 100-88. Not that Serbia was having a bad game, they actually played really gutsy and were allways a thread to get close again, but Lithuania just was on fire and moved the ball so, so well all game long.

If you have a chance to watch some games, i encourage you to do so. On Saturday Spain and Serbia meet at (i think) 8,30 am and Lithuania and France at 2 pm.
Quarterfinals start on the 14th. (the torunament mode of 2 group stages is stupid ...)

Sarunas Jasikevicius at 35 still got it, their shooters are ridiculous and Raptor Draft Pick Valanciunas had his coming out game at this level with 18 points, 5 boards and 2 blocks on 8-9 from the field.

Hope they win it all, play beautiful basketball and the fans are just great. They play very fast paced, take risks, move the ball and have a couple great PnR artists.

Germany all but eliminated, decent effort but just too many brain farts (Nowitzki rightfully went apeshit on Ohlbrecht against Serbia after he missed a key defensive rotation) and not enough heart and talent from the role players. And Nowitzki only playing very good and not otherwordly which he´d have to to overcome the fact that Germany has at best 4 decent players (and most games it´s not even that) while France, Serbia, Lithuania or Spain basically have 12 guys that would be at worst the 4th best player on the german team.

View Poll Results: Will the lockout cost the NBA any games?
Yes	57	79.17%
No	11	15.28%
Trout	4	5.56%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

07-01-2011, 09:54 AM	#203
Gary Gorski Wolverine Studios Join Date: Oct 2003	I'm amazed by the stupidity yet again in pro sports. The NBA has been virtually irrelevant in the sporting landscape for pretty much the past decade and now they finally have everything in place - worldwide appeal, marketable and talented young players, major market teams with good players and the ultimate PR gift of the Miami Heat...and they're going to flush it all down the toilet. I mean really, how hard is this to figure out? The players side needs a reality check. You're being paid millions of dollars to play a game and you're the replaceable parts in the machine here. True, without today's players the league wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting but without 30 groups pumping in insane amounts of money for a game there's no league at all. Those franchises are going to be there 15 years from now - LeBron won't be. The owners on the whole are pretty dumb IMO. An NBA franchise is not a business - its a life sized toy - and as long as you let them make a couple of bucks on the deal and get to roll around town as a big shot sports owner then they're going to keep feeding the machine. They're going to keep letting David Kahn's of the world dole out $20 million to all the Darkos out there. They're going to be convinced that semi-star players playing for bad teams should be paid $20 million a year (hello Rashard Lewis and Gilbert Arenas). They will keep funding your amazing lifestyle...until they see a red number in the bank account. Then they're going to want it all back like they do now. The players are putting it all on the line for the likes of Eddy Curry essentially. The owners want a hard cap to save themselves from themselves and their management team. They want to know that they're not going to have more than $X in costs. That's the kind of stuff ownership says when they're losing money and the fun has stopped and they turn their attention to pinching pennies. This isn't about having to pay LeBron James $16 million - its about having to pay Rashard Lewis $22 million. Eddy Curry got paid tens of millions of dollars to sit around and get fatter. That's what is going to make the guy writing the checks stop and decide he needs to look into what the hell is going on with the checks he is writing. It just seems the answer was simple - let the owners win. Yes, win so they would continue to pay the players millions of dollars to play a game and feel good about doing it. Eliminating guaranteed contracts would go a long way in this deal. Doing so gives small market teams or teams that nobody wants to play for (like Toronto) the option to overpay a player to come there (big win for the players side) with the ability to get out from a bad deal if it doesn't work out (big win for the owners). It's not like if the player turns into a really good player and is putting butts in the seats that they're going to get rid of him. They're only going to get rid of him if he ends up sucking (Eddy Curry) and why shouldn't they? And if you're willing to give up the guaranteed contracts then the owners don't need to push for a hard cap - in fact it would be more beneficial to some of them not to have such a cap because the hard cap is only going to spread out the talent more rather than allow teams to stockpile "big 3s". If you avoid the hard cap you avoid a reason for teams to exercise their right to dump a contract just because they have to stay under the cap. So at that point a team is really only going to dump a contract if the player just isn't worth the money and 29 other teams agree that he's not worth the money (ie nobody will trade for him). The only other reason teams might dump a contract is if they're trying to free up enough cap space to go after a free agent. How many teams would have cut contracts to get LeBron? Doesn't that make it better for the players giving them the ultimate flexibility? And if a decent player is cut to make room for a big star its not like he's SOL. If he's worth $5 million someone else will pay him that (or more). Essentially the LeBron's and Melos of the league are offering right now to take less than a "fair wage" based on their talents in order for players with little to no NBA talent to collect far more than they are worth. How has Billy Hunter sold that to the majority of the NBA players? If management is paying you 30 cents a day to produce shoes then yes, you dig your heels in and you fight for the right to a livable wage for your labor. When management is paying you a million dollars to in some cases practice basketball for a couple hours a day, workout and wear a nice suit and watch a basketball game courtside you work on keeping ownership happy enough to keep writing those checks. The damnest thing of it all is that the game really felt ready to pop once again and if had been given that chance and the owners were not only starting to make money but make more than they even expected with a rise in popularity the players could have easily ended up with even more money. The "soft cap" could have increased, salaries could have increased and pretty much everyone outside of those handful of guys who are being WAY overpaid would have been better off. Instead we're at a lockout, the season is being threatened, that momentum is ready to fall off a cliff and the owners are just going to get more and more pissed off and ask for more and more concessions especially if they are losing less money by not operating at all. The players didn't need this fight and they shouldn't have wanted this fight. __________________ Wolverine Studios http://www.wolverinestudios.com

07-01-2011, 10:09 AM	#204
RainRaven High School JV Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Baltimore, Maryland	So the players are suppose to just give up a large amount of the total pie to save the owners from themselves? Eddy Curry didn't force a owner to give him that amount of money. Rashard Lewis didn't force anybody to pay him 22 million dollars to be at best a good player and not a superstar. I would agree with you partly that I think the players need to give up some of the financial percentage that they have now but if I were them I would then go after all of the side benefits possible. Shorter time until FA for example in exchange for the financial concessions. Both sides are to blame for the current financial state of the NBA but the owners have to give the players some growth opportunities in the contract or why agree to something that is a huge decline in what you have when the game was at it's MOST popular last year. __________________ "It can't rain all the time"-The Crow

07-01-2011, 10:29 AM	#208
RainRaven High School JV Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Baltimore, Maryland	Of course the owners have more options as to what to do during the lockout, they always do in any professional sport in a situation like this (Though as a side note the audience is paying money to see the players not the owners play on that court). I think at the end the players will give in quite a bit financially but I think they would have done so quicker if the owners actually intertwined the revenue sharing into the discussions instead of Stern acting as though that is a separate issue. It's a shame that no matter what it's another situation with two rich groups of people arguing about who gets the biggest slice of pie and not truly negotiating yet it seems. __________________ "It can't rain all the time"-The Crow

07-01-2011, 10:46 AM	#212
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	dola: In fact, as NFL contracts have gotten most sophisticated, you can see how people can use that system to engineer some pretty worthwhile deals. Players will get a "7 year" contract, with a reasonable bonus and three years of reasonable salary. Then, in the offseason before year four, the player is owed a roster bonus equal to the GDP of Australia. Of course, the parties know that that bonus will never be paid, but it forces the team at that point to either renegotiate the player or cut him before it is due. So, with creative use of the money, everybody knows that that is really a three year deal with a some basic parameters set out for renegotiating after that point. This allows the parties maximum flexibility and the ability to look out for their own interests. Last edited by albionmoonlight : 07-01-2011 at 10:47 AM.

07-01-2011, 10:23 AM	#207
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	All they need to do us basically increase the escrow % to about 20(from 8) and the current system works fine. Plus I'd figure out how to protect a guy's first 2m from escrow and tax the amounts over 4m at a higher rate.

07-01-2011, 10:40 AM	#211
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	The NFL model of semi-guaranteed contracts (i.e. signing bonuses that cannot be taken back and that are pro-rated against the cap) seems, by far, like the best and most fair solution. The LeBrons of the world will demand and receive bonus heavy contracts. The Darkos of the world will get short contracts with low bonuses while they try to prove themselves. As long as the teams and agents understand the game (i.e. it is all about bonus money), then it works out fairly.

07-04-2011, 06:44 PM	#214
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	__________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

07-04-2011, 08:44 PM	#215
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	The thing is that there is a salary cap right now. And the proposed new hard cap is actually a little more than what the soft cap is currently set at. So this entire lockout is based around the fact that owners can't control themselves. I understand there are issues with small vs big market teams and competition. But that's a revenue sharing issue. The owners want every team to make money regardless of how poorly they are run or where they are located.

07-04-2011, 09:17 PM	#217
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	The NBA owners need to be very, very careful what they wish for. This isn't the NFL where the US is the only country in the world that really plays football and they are the only game in town. There are a lot of leagues around the world that are well supported, have a decent amount of money and would love to pay these guys more than an average wage for a couple of years while the NBA realizes the corner they have backed themselves into. Don't usually agree with Rainmaker but he's dead on here. The NBA is a star driven league and it's dead without the stars. And the owners don't have a leg to stand on because all these guys can go and make a couple hundred thousand tax free in Europe for a couple of years. I don't know what the answer is but it's going to be painful and it's going to be really bad for the league.

07-04-2011, 09:27 PM	#218
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	After I saw the documentary about the Seattle Sonics I am convinced that David Stern is a man out of touch with reality. This lockout is Stern's fault for caving into the demands of the owners. Instead of forcing them to be smart with their money he coddles their stupidity. I side with players on this one. It sucks that there is a possibility of having no NBA next season but the owners brought it upon themselves. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

07-04-2011, 11:06 PM	#219
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	I think this actually gives the NBA a chance if things work out right. I am a firm believer that what is healthy for a league is marketing teams, not players. This gives the NBA the chance to retool their marketing. A big part of what created the Magic v. Bird mystique was the teams they played for. Sure they were stars, but they went to the two most storied teams in the league.

07-04-2011, 11:15 PM	#220
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	No it wasn't. It was because it was Bird vs Magic. We had teams like the Celtics in the Finals many times and the ratings were atrocious. The Celtics played in the 1981 Finals to record low ratings.

07-05-2011, 12:12 AM	#221
Groundhog Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sydney, Australia	Even if the entire season goes, I'll be shocked if some of these big names play overseas. For starters, they aren't going to be getting as much money as the probably think, as there are few teams that could afford a multi-million dollar contract, let alone enough cash to make it worth risking an injury, especially to US players who are currently or about to be free agents. __________________ Politics, n. Strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles. --Ambrose Bierce

07-05-2011, 04:24 PM	#223
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Just a quick aside. Numerous people have said the Suns would have moved Amare to the Cavs for the Jamison package had the Cavs included Hickson. So, in a bit of a rewind, I wonder what would have happened had Lebron and Amare had a big playoff run in the 2009 playoffs following that deal? Would Lebron have stayed in Cleveland with Amare? Would Amare and Lebron have gelled and end up going to NY together? A lot of what ifs, but we will never know all because Danny Ferry wouldn't part with Hickson to land Amare __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

07-05-2011, 10:42 PM	#226
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Arles- supposedly the Suns were the team that said no. According to other sources. I can't believe the Cavs valued Hickson more than Amare. Last edited by stevew : 07-05-2011 at 11:14 PM.

07-05-2011, 10:51 PM	#227
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Gloria James vs. Amare's mom would have made for an epic whore off.

07-08-2011, 01:54 PM	#230
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	Yao Ming announces his retirement. Yahoo report: Yao Ming to retire - Game On!: Covering the Latest Sports News __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

07-15-2011, 10:19 AM	#232
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I actually always hated Ming. The china can vote for the AS game stuff was BS. For as tall as he was, he was never a good rebounder or shotblocker. I'd have expected him to post significantly better numbers than 2 blocks, or about 9.5 rebounds. I understand his place in the game, etc, but I'm glad he's gone.

07-15-2011, 11:36 AM	#233
Arles Grey Dog Software Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Phoenix, AZ by way of Belleville, IL	Yeah, I don't really get the Yao love either. He was a pure Euro big man (nice set shot from 8-15 feet, but little rebound/defense) and was constantly hurt. I think he was a solid player to have on a team, but no different than a lot of guys in the NBA. 18-20 PPG, 8-10 RPG and a ton of missed games for 5-6 seasons seems like a slightly above average career to me and nothing more. To me, guys like Al Jefferson and Elton Brand will be just as productive (for a longer period) and I doubt you will have near the hub-bub when they retire as Yao got. __________________ Developer of Bowl Bound College Football http://www.greydogsoftware.com

07-16-2011, 02:41 PM	#234
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Somehow Ibaka is now a Spaniard which gives them at least 5 solid players(Rubio/Gasols/Rudy Fernandez). They might be worth investing in for the Olympic Gold if the odds are good enough.

07-16-2011, 04:03 PM	#235
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Don´t forget Calderon and Navarro (you know, the guy with the 15 foot floater that allways goes in when the game is close ). Then further down the depth chart you have guys like Llull who was Real Madrid´s best player, or Victor Claver who both could play a role in the NBA right now. Heck, their 12th man from the previous tournaments (Fernando San Emeterio) made the All-Euroleague 1st team and was the MVP of the spanish league this past season ... He also plays the only position that had trouble to fill previously (Small Forward) Their preliminary roster doesn´t even include recent first round pick Mirotic, former NBA PG Raul Lopez or Fran Vazquez who was a big contributor in recent tournaments. They have by far the most talent outside the US squad, definitely.

07-16-2011, 04:15 PM	#236
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	The matchups should be interesting. And the depressing thought is that next year's Olympic tourney might be the NEXT competitive pro basketball I/we watch. Gotta figure the US will need to bring at least Howard and Chandler to check Spain, plus a guy like Carmelo would probably get killed if he has to try to guard a Gasol brother. All kinds of questions such is Kobe going to want to play again. Can you play Durant or Melo in the post. Is the US going to be smart enough to bring a JJ Reddick or Jimmer or Curry type that can destroy a zone. I can't wait. Last edited by stevew : 07-16-2011 at 04:17 PM.

07-16-2011, 04:18 PM	#237
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Overall the upcoming Eurobasket (starts august 31st) could be really, really good. I´ll keep you posted with streaming links if you´d like to see some basketball (albeit at unusual times with the different time zone) then The last couple tournaments a lot of teams missed key players, this year it looks as if most teams are pretty much at full strength. Not good news for the german team i´m afraid, even if Nowitzki plays they´ll be in for a tough fight to even come close to qualifying for the London games (i think the first 2 go automatically, 3-5 earn spots in an aditional qualifying tourney). earlier in the month Lithuania won the U19 WC btw with Raptors draft pick Valanciunas being by far the best player in the tournament (24/14 on 60% shooting, 30/15 against the US, 36/8 in the final), he´ll likely also be in the Eurobasket squad. Enes Kanter will also play for Turkey who are in the same group as spain and Lithuania Last edited by whomario : 07-16-2011 at 04:21 PM.

07-17-2011, 09:05 PM	#238
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Woot woot. NBA players in basketball crazy Philippines! NBA stars here vs Gilas, PBA NBA MVP Derrick Rose joining Kobe Bryant, Chris Paul in Manila after all __________________ Come and see. Last edited by Neon_Chaos : 07-17-2011 at 09:07 PM.

07-23-2011, 08:24 AM	#239
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Woowoo! Watching Kobe, CP3, Rose, Fisher, Evans, Durant, Harden, Mcgee, and Derrick Williams live here. To be fair, the Philippine All Stars are keeping the game close. This is so awesome! __________________ Come and see.

07-23-2011, 10:17 AM	#240
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	I have a solution for the small market teams. No more guaranteed contracts with an exception give teams the ability to sign their own free agents to guaranteed contracts (3 years max). If a player leaves for another team he gives up guaranteed money and is subject to being cut for under performing. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

07-23-2011, 10:39 AM	#241
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Nowitzki and Kaman yesterday commited for the Eurobasket. Could care less about Kaman, but seeing the younger german players get zje chance to finally play with the Dirk is great, hope they somehow manage a Top5 finish to keep the olympics hope alive (tough group and tough table for the first ko stages though ...) Talent level really still isn´t the greatest, to put it mildly. 3rd or 4th best players propably wouldn´t play more than a few spot minutes for teams like Spain, turkey, france or lithuania ...

08-12-2011, 06:59 PM	#242
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I'm listening to Stern on the BS Report. I really think that there isn't going to be a season. In fact, unless principle parties in the negotiation change, I'm not sure this will ever resolve itself.

08-12-2011, 07:32 PM	#243
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	A good friend of mine works as a n owners assistant. He asked him when he'd get to go to some home games and the owner's exact quote was "When the players realize we have them bent over a fucking barrel".

08-14-2011, 01:33 PM	#245
Neon_Chaos Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Parañaque, Philippines	Recap of the awesome event that was held in the Philippines last month. Still can't believe it actually happened. Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose and Kevin Durant played in Manila last weekend. Why? - Grantland __________________ Come and see.

08-17-2011, 05:18 PM	#246
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	Nice article on Grantland about Arvydas Sabonis : Jonathan Abrams on the long, strange trip of Arvydas Sabonis - Grantland not exactly much new stuff, but still a good read with a few details that usually aren´t in articles on him. And even if you aren´t interested in Sabonis, it also features some real solid Bill Walton hyperbole definitely one of the big what-if stories of the NBA (heck, as it was he still averaged 18/11 with 3 assists per 36 minutes for his NBA career on a pretty good team) Last edited by whomario : 08-17-2011 at 05:25 PM.

08-27-2011, 10:06 PM	#247
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	only a couple days to go before the Eurobasket EuroBasket 2011 GROUP A: Spain, Turkey, Lithuania, United Kingdom, Poland, Portugal GROUP B: Serbia, France, Germany, Israel, Italy, Latvia. GROUP C: Greece, Croatia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Finnland GROUP D: Slovenia, Russia, Belgium, Georgia, Bulgaria, Ukraine. 3 teams advance to a 2nd group stage where they then play 3 games against the top3 from the partner-group (A and B ; C and D). Bolded the teams i think will advance. Germany has a pretty tough group, although they caught a break with Israel (Casspi) and Latvia (Biedrins) missing very key players. But Serbia is one of the facourites to win it all with a super deep squad, France has tons of talent (but imo will fall short) and Italy has great potential with Bargnani, Gallinari and Bellinelli. The preperation games went smoothly enough for the german team, but it will still need monster games from Nowitzki to have any shot at even the 6th place finish to get a shot at the olympics in another qualifying tourney next summer (only the 2 finalists qualify directly) For some reason the german coach continues to think it is a good idea to start a PG (Steffen Hamann) who can´t shoot or score at the basket and isn´t a very good passer and now decided to pair him with an SG who can´t shoot or score either ... (Jo Herber who is a great defender though, some guys might remember him from his days as a 4 year starter at West Virginia from 02-06)

08-31-2011, 04:01 PM	#248
whomario Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2007	first day of Eurobasket 2011 just ended, no real suprises but a couple too-close-for-comfort wins by the favourites. things that stood out from watching and stat-wise with a focus on NBA players/prospects : -Spain with their usual slow start, just barely edge Poland (no Gortat or Lampe). Pau had 29, Marc 16. -France vs Latvia was a very nice game ending 89-78, Parker had 31 points and got whatever he wanted most of the time. NOah (10 pts) and Diaw (14) did a nice job inside and later adjusted well to the zone, passing the ball out of the middle to the shooters (who were mostly ice cold though). For Latvia Janis Blums did his best Steve Nash impression scoring 32 from all over the court (should have shot even more though, went 12/18) while executing the PnR very well. Spurs Draft Pick Davis Bertans looked very good in limited minutes, had an awesome block and scored well, suprisingly with a couple nice moves to the basket. - Italy looses to Serbia, the NBA guys (Bargnani, Gallinari, Bellinelli) had no help at all. Serbia is just fun to watch, a bunch of young but allready experienced and smart players that simply do their job. They have no star, but great chemistry. -Germany with the most lopsided win of the day against Israel, 91-64. I´m pleasently surprised Kaman 18/10 in 20 minutes, Nowitzki with 25 after never topping 15 in the warmup-games. Got some nice help from Benzing (12), Schaffartzik (10) and Schwethelm (9). -Enes Kanter looked very good for Turkey in an easy win over Portugal, scored 14 on 7-9 shooting. -Lithuania beats GB 80-69. Valanciunas surprisingly little playing time, old man Sarunas Jasikevicius scores 13, nearly-as-old Kaukenas scores 16. Deng had 25/10 for GB, they didn´t get any help from their bench though (4 of their starters combined for all but 2 of the team points) Last edited by whomario : 08-31-2011 at 04:07 PM.

09-06-2011, 10:35 PM	#249
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I'm always happy in times like these that some player rep like Derek frickin Fisher is gonna decide whether or not the other players play basketball. Isnt there a player from a more prestigious school than Ark-Little Rock available? Maybe an ivy leaguer or a non-sociology Duke guy? It's bad enough that players like Fisher(and Michael Curry before him) who wouldn't be on the starting team of many rec leagues, stay in the league due to generous guaranteed deals and their amassed wealth of political power. We've got the NBA version of Kevin Mawae set to go to the mattresses so that Eddie Curry can make 13 million. And the owners are content to not play in order to protect the profitability of David Sterling, a fucking housing discriminator. Anyways, I just wanna see basketball.