WW CVI: Evil Star Trek--GAME OVER!! (Results in Post #643)

[Darth Vilus]

yeah but u can dream though homie. How many colors u think you'll need?

[Danny]

For WOTR, like 6? One for each army. When doing detail work and stuff, one figure can take like 6-10 by itself

[Darth Vilus]

6-10 what? min or colors. how detailed did u want to get with em?

[Danny]

6-10 colors for ones that are painted with a good amount of detail. You could do that for like the main ones, but for the armies, one solid color each would be fine. It would be too much work to paint 100+ with a lot of detail. Plus there is a dip method which lets a figure look like it has some details without actually doing any work.

[Darth Vilus]

i see i see not bad. we can do that sometime when i go to ur house. If u have the paints that is. Price em next time ur out

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

yeah we're gonna get some raised eyebrows tomorrow. Sorry chief!

Heh...I'm West Coast. You guys are raising my eyebrows now.

[Chief Rum]

In fact, I think we're all SoCal.

[Darth Vilus]

apparently we've never heard of ainstant messaging or a phone. Whoops

[Darth Vilus]

really? what city u in?

[Darth Vilus]

Darth Vilus.....thread killer

[Danny]

I think he's in Anaheim or O.C.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

really? what city u in?

Whoops. Had to go to bed.

Danny's right, Anaheim's where I'm at. OC born and raised and defiled.

[hoopsguy]

Can I vote for both Danny and Darth Vilus today? Just a one-time exception due to the last 25 or so posts?

[PurdueBrad]

I'll probably get an early vote in since I'll be out most of the afternoon. I'll likely be looking at ntn voters, either early or perhaps the tipping point/out of reach voters.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Danny

Because wolves like to set the candidates, especially on day 1 which is kind of random. Plus it helps them blend in. This is almost always the case, especially when a wolf is not involved.

I'm not saying this observation is right or wrong (I'm sure you know better than I), but it seems like every game I see conflicting information as far as what wolves like to do (wolves always put the second vote on a candidate, etc...) It seems like one can make a good argument for wolves doing anything voting-wise ("You voted for a wolf to gain trust!").

[J23]

Originally Posted by Danny

Because wolves like to set the candidates, especially on day 1 which is kind of random. Plus it helps them blend in. This is almost always the case, especially when a wolf is not involved.

I'm still not sure I buy it, though looking at the last couple games, it does seem that has been the case. As for your gut feeling, I'm really not sure how I can argue that.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Danny

You can see the small version

http://boardgame.geekdo.com/image/587390

I guess you need to be logged in to see the full resolution image.

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

alright i signed up. Dang man, that thing looks pretty sweet! All the color and deluxe case, pret-ty cool bro.

Originally Posted by Danny

Yeah, too bad it's $400. I'll really need to paint the different armies different colors some day.

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

one day when we're not real busy we can do it. Just have to save up for the paint. and for that game

not that I needed it but by far further confirmation I am the coolest guy on the werewolf forum...

Me and KWhit, his wife was a model...

[Lathum]

Vote Telle

It isn't much but I voted her yesterday and she didn't say boo, maybe she didn't want to bring attention to herself. Then casts a late vote on a known villager. Then her husband turns up dead...

[hoopsguy]

So far this has felt like WW in slow motion. I'm as guilty as anyone, but I'm hoping that we can get something that feels like meaningful participation going today.

So, as I somewhat predicted yesterday my initial vote on someone led to them being part of the final runoff, with NTN edging out KWhit. What do we take from this?

Does anyone have time to whip up a vote/unvote chart from yesterday? I don't think there were too many unvotes, but I'll be curious to see what the movement looks like around the candidates. If no one has posted one by mid-afternoon I'll probably take a crack at it myself.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Then casts a late vote on a known villager. Then her husband turns up dead...

Wouldn't that make her evil though? And wouldn't that make her good? I'm so confused.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by dubb93

Wouldn't that make her evil though? And wouldn't that make her good? I'm so confused.

I think it puts her on the opposite side of Render and NTN.

[Chief Rum]

Not surprising, given I was out yesterday, but the work piled up. I'm in a job where if I or the group I work in don't do the work, no one does it. Ugh.

Anyway, gonna be out of the thread until trivia time. I'll try to catch up any questions or issues or what not at that time.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Lathum

not that I needed it but by far further confirmation I am the coolest guy on the werewolf forum...

Me and KWhit, his wife was a model...

I LOLed.

[Darth Vilus]

Originally Posted by Lathum

not that I needed it but by far further confirmation I am the coolest guy on the werewolf forum...

Me and KWhit, his wife was a model...

Hey don't knock it til you'e tried it homie, it can get intense.

as for voting i'm not sure, I'm not really good at analyzing votes to catch wolves yet. That's just me though. What Danny is saying makes sense though.

[hoopsguy]

Vote recap from yesterday:

82 - Dubb votes JAG (1-0)
85 - Lathum votes Telle (1-1 JAG/Telle)
87 - PB votes Darth (1-1-1 JAG/Telle/Darth)
88 - Dubb unvotes JAG (1-1 Telle/Darth)
91 - Hoops votes KWhit (1-1-1 Telle/Darth/KWhit)
106 - Darth votes NTN (1-1-1-1 Telle/Darth/KWhit/NTN)
109 - Danny votes J23 (1-1-1-1-1 Telle/Darth/KWhit/NTN/J23)
112 - J23 votes NTN (2-1-1-1-1 NTN over Telle/Darth/KWhit/J23)
117 - Lerri votes KWhit (2-2-1-1-1 NTN/KWhit over Telle/Darth/J23)
125 - Dubb votes NTN (3-2-1-1-1 NTN over KWhit over Telle/Darth/J23)
129 - DT votes KWhit (3-3-1-1-1 NTN/KWhit over Telle/Darth/J23)
130 - JAG votes NTN (4-3-1-1-1 NTN over KWhit over Telle/Darth/J23)
132 - Lathum unvotes Telle, votes KWhit (4-4-1-1 NTN/KWhit over Darth/J23)
133 - Telle votes NTN (5-4-1-1 NTN over KWhit over Darth/J23)
139 - RendeR votes KWhit (5-5-1-1 NTN/KWhit over Darth/J23)
148 - Schmidty votes NTN (6-5-1-1 NTN over KWhit over Darth/J23)
150 - KWhit votes NTN (7-5-1-1 NTN over KWhit over Darth/J23)

No vote - TheJackal, NTN

[DaddyTorgo]

I hate the fact that work is busy now and I feel bad if I'm sitting here posting in the WW-forum instead of working.

And yes I still manage a few OT-posts during the day, but those are largely "off the cuff" type BS-comments, not the well-thought-out comments that enrich a WW-game.

I think D1's of late have always felt like WW-in-slomo to hoops' point. Particuarly because there's not usually much to go on (at least on D2). I'd like to try to think of a mechanic to change that honestly.

[DaddyTorgo]

jackal didn't vote? seems a bit too obvious to be wolfish though doesn't it? D1 is usually an easy time to "bury" a vote so why would a wolf skip it. Can't think of a reason. Did he provide one in-thread...I thought maybe he did, but I forget.

K...back to the phones.

[Darth Vilus]

ugh, i hate going to work when I'm playing WW, i miss out on so much. Though I hate going to work when I'm not playing WW too :-)

so who to vote for, let's see here

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Lets see what happens in a tie:

Vote KHWIT

Originally Posted by RendeR

I feel like someone drugged me after dinner. Sorry I haven't been on but I passed out on the couch for no good reason.

Originally Posted by KWhit

That explains your vote then.

Originally Posted by RendeR

No the vote is a good one at this point. I want to see shenanigans at deadline. if we have two people tied, something is going to happen.

So, I've quoted these with the idea of exploring why the wolves would have gone after RendeR last night. There is always the "he won't be blocked, lets get him" motivation, but when I'm a wolf I'm normally role chasing on Night 1. Later in the game I might have a reason to "set someone up" or free myself from heat, or something along those lines. But early in the game I'm going after someone I think is either a seer or a convert.

It just so happens that we have a potential convert in this game:

Evil Marlena Moreau The beautiful Marlena Moreau is the captain's woman. She will know who the wolves are to start, but they will not know her. If they attack her, she will convert to their side to help them get back to their universe. She will be able to communicate with them, but she will still count as a villager for win condition purposes.

When I re-read this now I can see where the wolves might have seen the "it is a good vote" option and thought they should snap up Moreau ASAP to build their numbers.

Now, for this to be true that assumes that KWhit is in fact a wolf. I voted for him yesterday and saw a close race emerge. We never saw KWhit take the lead in the race, but he was under some duress. I'm going to repeat my vote from yesterday unless someone can convince me of a flaw in this theory or come up with one I like better.

VOTE KWHIT

[Darth Vilus]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I think D1's of late have always felt like WW-in-slomo to hoops' point. Particuarly because there's not usually much to go on (at least on D2). I'd like to try to think of a mechanic to change that honestly.

Lol, when was the last time Hoops survived past day 1?
I can't remember

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

Hey don't knock it til you'e tried it homie, it can get intense.

No thanks, I enjoy having sex with women.

[Darth Vilus]

HA!, now that was funny.

VOTE LATHUM

for crude humor

[Lathum]

Unvote Telle
Vote DT

I have seen DT play this way before and it was when he was a wolf. Other games when he has been a villager and busy he just doesn't post, it almost seems he is posting just so folks don't call him out for being UTR.

[Darth Vilus]

UNVOTE LATHUM

Now I thought tht was funny

[Darth Vilus]

how does he play when he's a wolf? Just posting to post?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

So, I've quoted these with the idea of exploring why the wolves would have gone after RendeR last night. There is always the "he won't be blocked, lets get him" motivation, but when I'm a wolf I'm normally role chasing on Night 1. Later in the game I might have a reason to "set someone up" or free myself from heat, or something along those lines. But early in the game I'm going after someone I think is either a seer or a convert.

It just so happens that we have a potential convert in this game:


When I re-read this now I can see where the wolves might have seen the "it is a good vote" option and thought they should snap up Moreau ASAP to build their numbers.

Now, for this to be true that assumes that KWhit is in fact a wolf. I voted for him yesterday and saw a close race emerge. We never saw KWhit take the lead in the race, but he was under some duress. I'm going to repeat my vote from yesterday unless someone can convince me of a flaw in this theory or come up with one I like better.

VOTE KWHIT

I don't follow this. Your whole premise seems to be that the wolves thought RendeR might have been the convert. And you base that fact on the fact that he voted for me, who you are thinking might be a wolf.

Why would the cultist/convert be voting to try to take down a wolf. He tied the vote up between me and NTN. He'd be wanting to drive attention away from the wolves - not toward it.

I don't get why you would think that the wolves would expect Render to be a convert based on him voting for me. That makes no sense since the convert knows who the wolves are from the beginning and would presumably not want to get them lynched.

Evil Marlena Moreau
The beautiful Marlena Moreau is the captain's woman. She will know who the wolves are to start, but they will not know her. If they attack her, she will convert to their side to help them get back to their universe. She will be able to communicate with them, but she will still count as a villager for win condition purposes.

[J23]

A couple things

1) Hoops - I don't follow the logic that you're laying out. Can you try to spell it out a bit more clearly?

2) KWhit - Why is the assumption that the convert wants to help the wolves? I see that she is listed under the wolves for the roles, does this mean she wins with the wolves even if not converted?

[Darth Vilus]

I'm not sure where Hoops is going with this but there's a reason why the wolves don't like him. I'll go with this for now since i'm at aloss and have to leave

VOTE KHWIT

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by J23

2) KWhit - Why is the assumption that the convert wants to help the wolves? I see that she is listed under the wolves for the roles, does this mean she wins with the wolves even if not converted?

Well, the fact that she knows who the wolves are implies that she wins with them. Otherwise, she could just announce who they are and:

GAME OVER MAN!!

[Lathum]

I agree with KWhit, Hoops' logic doesn't seem to make much sense.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

I'm not sure where Hoops is going with this but there's a reason why the wolves don't like him. I'll go with this for now since i'm at aloss and have to leave

VOTE KHWIT

WHAT!?!?!?

That is possibly the most ridiculous thing I've heard.

"I don't understand his argument, but I'll agree with it anyway!!"

Seriously?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Darth Vilus

how does he play when he's a wolf? Just posting to post?

I have seen him do this, yes.

[KWhit]

I'm not liking the Hoops / DV doubleteam on me.

And since Hoops initiated it.

VOTE HOOPSGUY

[dubb93]

I actually agree with KWhit. Hoops seems to be grasping at straws here and darth is jumping in even though he doesn't follow Hoop's logic. Hell, I don't follow Hoop's logic either.

Vote Hoops

[hoopsguy]

OK, the wolves thought that RendeR was the cultist signaling to them based on the post that I quoted. It would make perfect sense for them to make that leap, at least in my mind, if KWhit is in fact a wolf.

But, RendeR was not the cultist. RendeR wasn't sending a signal to anyone, RendeR was just voting as a villager with a role. That does not change how the wolves would perceive the posts that I quoted. That is why I think RendeR was the night one target.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, the wolves thought that RendeR was the cultist signaling to them based on the post that I quoted. It would make perfect sense for them to make that leap, at least in my mind, if KWhit is in fact a wolf.

But, RendeR was not the cultist. RendeR wasn't sending a signal to anyone, RendeR was just voting as a villager with a role. That does not change how the wolves would perceive the posts that I quoted. That is why I think RendeR was the night one target.

If the wolves had any sense they wouldn't think that the cultist would be voting late to tie up the vote count between a wolf and a villager. I disagree with your premise entirely.

[hoopsguy]

For Dubb and others who think that I'm angle-shooting here as a wolf - why would I bother doing this on Day 2 in the most quiet game ever? I was not in any meaningful danger of getting votes before putting that post forward.

I'm happy to discuss my thought process, but the "I don't understand Hoops' argument, ergo he is a wolf" does not seem like a very well formed vote process. Ask me to further clarify, tell me where I'm seeing something that probably is not there. Let's get some kind of conversation going in this thread, rather than just sitting back and letting the wolves dictate terms through indifference.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by KWhit

If the wolves had any sense they wouldn't think that the cultist would be voting late to tie up the vote count between a wolf and a villager. I disagree with your premise entirely.

That would obviously be the risk. But at that point RendeR made the vote 5-5 with your vote still out there to be cast. There was no sign of NTN and RendeR certainly was in a position to change the vote if needed.

Point of fact - RendeR did not have any of those considerations, because he was not the cultist. Similarly, the wolves would not have had a lot of time to really dissect the kill order because the deadline was 20 minutes out for them. Wolf organization around the deadline can be pretty chaotic - it certainly has been in games that I've played.

Anyway, I'm certainly willing to listen to other interpretations of the voting logic from yesterday. KWhit, if you know that you are a villager and it was villager/villager all along then what are your takeaways from yesterday?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

For Dubb and others who think that I'm angle-shooting here as a wolf - why would I bother doing this on Day 2 in the most quiet game ever? I was not in any meaningful danger of getting votes before putting that post forward.

I'm happy to discuss my thought process, but the "I don't understand Hoops' argument, ergo he is a wolf" does not seem like a very well formed vote process. Ask me to further clarify, tell me where I'm seeing something that probably is not there. Let's get some kind of conversation going in this thread, rather than just sitting back and letting the wolves dictate terms through indifference.

As Danny pointed out earlier, oftentimes wolves like to throw out a couple of candidates early on to steer the conversation away from themselves.

You've successfully made me a candidate 2 days in a row for no good reason each time. A wolf would be glad to do that to a villager, just to ensure that they aren't the ones that get the attention.

Admit it. I was a leading candidate yesterday and am a leading vote getter today (only 2, but still). And why is that? No real reason that makes sense in my view. But people have to vote for someone, even when they have no idea who to vote for. That is why wolves like to get a candidate out in front early on.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Unvote Telle
Vote DT

I have seen DT play this way before and it was when he was a wolf. Other games when he has been a villager and busy he just doesn't post, it almost seems he is posting just so folks don't call him out for being UTR.

or maybe i just feel like i should try to contribute what little i can on my lunchbreak.