Werewolf LVI - Upstairs, Downstairs - GAME OVER, Guests WIN!

[DaddyTorgo]

hmm. Guess there's no point in using evidence if it's a runaway on render though.

[PurdueBrad]

I did read the rules, and see that "each team" has a seer but I do also see where the rules go on to talk about "upstairs and downstairs". I believe that there are surprises built into the game that may not be listed.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Alan, you've stepped to the head of the house as a strong personality and helpful. Your play isn't crying out for conversion and nobody has challenged your reveal, so I'm pretty sure those two things right now put you at the head of trusted. Show me somebody else that has been as big a leader?

As for the seer, I'm assuming, based on some comments about "using your special powers" and other knowledge that we likely have a seer among us and NO, I do not want a reveal. I was asking for something more subtle as a move of support once scanned but that, at this point, would probably not be a great move either. Honestly, I had thought that maybe you were our seer, so a scan, proof, and then simple word of support from one of our forefront members would've cast off suspicion PLUS put somebody else in the loop about my role.

Honestly, let me reconsider outing the fake reveal, as I do understand it puts a target on me for tonight although I feel safe at night. I will consider doing it though to gain trust of the other guests.

Nope, I'm not a seer, and I've given as much of a hint about my role as I plan to in what I said before that my special ability has absolutely nothing to do with the name of my role at all (at least as far as I could imagine.)

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting story RendeR.

Neon - I didn't slip-up. I still maintain that your posts immediately before I switched to you screamed wolf-friendly to me.

[PurdueBrad]

So RendeR and Sndevil have countering evidence claims. If we lynch badly tonight, we know the safe bet tomorrow. I'm going to look back at RendeR and Sndevil's plays to see which way I want to go after the counter. For now...

unvote RendeR

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

interesting story RendeR.

Neon - I didn't slip-up. I still maintain that your posts immediately before I switched to you screamed wolf-friendly to me.

Mmhmm. Let's take a look back at then.

Post 10:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Checking in. Guest here.

Post 26:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

vote No Lynch

Here are my explanations for No Lynch:

Post 38:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I'm all good with a mass reveal.

I just don't want to lynch right now, because roles aren't revealed on lynches, right?

Post 40:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

My argument for the no-lynch would be that since roles aren't revealed during lynches, we really don't have anything revealed to us, even though we lynch someone.

We would be taking someone out and not gain anything from it. Bad trade-off, IMO.

Reveals were made, and Alan T hadn't revealed yet.

Post 75:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

List:
oliegirl - The Colonel
Arlington - The Socialite
Barkeep - Vicar

Has Alan T given up his role yet? He's the one who pushed for it.

Post 76:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

dola, seems like he hasn't.

oliegirl - the Colonel
Arlington - the Socialite
Lathum - the Gadabout
Barkeep - Vicar

It was your idea to reveal roles Alan T. I suggest that you reveal yours, or my vote is moving on to you.

Post 79:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

As I said earlier, I am willing to reveal. I just want to figure out first if AlanT is just trying a wolf trying to weed out the other wolf team by eliminating the revealed roles.

Alan T reveals, and I reveal as well. At this point, I was sold on Alan T's plan.

Post 82:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Alrightie then.

I am The Elderly Gent.

You really love voting for me, don't you?

Post 83:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

oliegirl - the Colonel
Arlington - the Socialite
Lathum - the Gadabout
Barkeep - the Vicar
Neon_Chaos - the Elderly Gent
Alan T - the Professor

Trying to look for someone to vote with before running off to play City of Heroes.

Post 86:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Barkeep, any idea who we should vote for?

I'm thinking of switching my no-lynch over to st.cro.

At this point, ntnDeacon put another vote on Gonzo, so I decided to just pile on and play Alan's odds.

Post 88:

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Unvote no-lynch
Vote Gonzo

Off to play CoH.

Ok, DT, show me wolf-friendliness?

[Neon_Chaos]

I am ambivalent between Render and SnDvls. I knew RendeR would probably pull the counter-reveal as well... it's going to be dicey to pick which one is lying. Bah.

[DaddyTorgo]

Neon - 76, 86, 88 just shouted "wolf trying to find a bandwagon and then drop a vote and run"

[DaddyTorgo]

interesting between render and sndvls...maybe someone else will be able to corroborate

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Neon - 76, 86, 88 just shouted "wolf trying to find a bandwagon and then drop a vote and run"

But you forget, NOONE has claimed my role at all. I'm not leaning towards any direction and was ambivalent regarding who to vote for. And you still vote for me, when you could have voted for some 7 or 8 other guys? Jeez.

Ah, what's the point of trying to explain myself to a wolf?

[PurdueBrad]

There was corroboration somewhere (Lathum) I believe saying that they saw Sndvls out. It looks like, from the revealed evidence that if it were a killer, there was mention of a weapon or blood. Although I guess the line about him trying to be quiet could be damning as well. I'm going to go back and look at votes and try to choose that way.

[DaddyTorgo]

i'm not a wolf though. Or a sympathizer.

true that no one had claimed your role. But you could have used a role of one of the people who wasn't online, or you could be a sympathizer still.

And honestly I figured it was a D1 vote. I hadn't been plugged into the D1 discussion and done the math enough to realize that it might be a critical vote. Just figured I didn't want to bandwagon onto someone and I'd rather cast a statement vote.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

There was corroboration somewhere (Lathum) I believe saying that they saw Sndvls out. It looks like, from the revealed evidence that if it were a killer, there was mention of a weapon or blood. Although I guess the line about him trying to be quiet could be damning as well. I'm going to go back and look at votes and try to choose that way.

quiet could just mean "sneaking around trying not to be noticed and killed" but you're right PB there was a line from lathum about that. Nice catch

[SnDvls]

RendeR - if you are so sure then why don't he give us your guest role? or are you going to try and claim my role as well there too?

good try

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It seems EagleFan and Telle were killed in an attempt to set me up.

I can confirm SNDVLS was out last night, I saw him roaming around trying to stay quiet.

AlanT, may I ask what your actions were last night?

Originally Posted by Lathum

Who said I am going after anyone?

You are being awefully defensive, please show me where in ANY of my posts I go anfter anyone?

I saw you out last night trying to act quiet, I am just curious what you are up to. That is all.

I figure it is best to get info out early, especially on a friday

Bolded part by me

quote #1 about me
qutoe #2 about Alan

we both were out searching last night it seems not killing people

[DaddyTorgo]

if Alan confirms he was out searching last night SnDvls, I think that goes a long way towards assuring that RendeR is the higher-probability target

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

RendeR - if you are so sure then why don't he give us your guest role? or are you going to try and claim my role as well there too?

good try

My role is not listed in the rules. I am keeping it quiet because I didn't want that to be a reason for people to go after me. People never need a valid reason to vote for me, its the popular thing to do.

Someone else saw me running away from you, I wasn't told who, but I hope they come forward and expose your lies.

[Neon_Chaos]

Will be out for nearly the entire day after lunch. Company picnic.

Seems like the decision tonight is either Render or SnDvls, I'm moving my vote later.

It doesn't look good for you, Render.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if Alan confirms he was out searching last night SnDvls, I think that goes a long way towards assuring that RendeR is the higher-probability target

I could go along with this. Although looking at N1 votes, RendeR voted with Barkeep (a proven guest) against an unproven entity (St.Cronin) whereas SNDevils voted with Neon (who has come under some fire) and NTN who is an unknown entity against a still unknown entity (Gonzo). I'm not quite sure what all that means except that if we don't get corroboration from Alan, then I may give benefit of the doubt to RendeR based on siding with Barkeep. But it's a slim range.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I could go along with this. Although looking at N1 votes, RendeR voted with Barkeep (a proven guest) against an unproven entity (St.Cronin) whereas SNDevils voted with Neon (who has come under some fire) and NTN who is an unknown entity against a still unknown entity (Gonzo). I'm not quite sure what all that means except that if we don't get corroboration from Alan, then I may give benefit of the doubt to RendeR based on siding with Barkeep. But it's a slim range.

Wolf covering fellow wolf's tracks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RendeR

My role is not listed in the rules. I am keeping it quiet because I didn't want that to be a reason for people to go after me. People never need a valid reason to vote for me, its the popular thing to do.

Someone else saw me running away from you, I wasn't told who, but I hope they come forward and expose your lies.

interesting. I hope that person comes forward. additional corroborating evidence would be nice.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Will be out for nearly the entire day after lunch. Company picnic.

Seems like the decision tonight is either Render or SnDvls, I'm moving my vote later.

It doesn't look good for you, Render.

If it comes to that I will reveal my role fully. There are specific reasons for why I cannot at this point.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Wolf covering fellow wolf's tracks.

Neon, I'm pretty sure my saying "could go along with this" is dependent on a third party revealing information. Otherwise, I sort of laid out the opposite track here, saying that I was more willing to give RendeR the benefit. If that is how you want to read it though, that's fine.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hmm. Guess there's no point in using evidence if it's a runaway on render though.

I missed this earlier, If the evidence points at someone else please do use it. My role is beneficial to the guests but becomes worthless if revealed, so if you can point out evidence to someone else get it out there!

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

The evidence against each of them:
DT voted for a revealed guest after Neon had revealed in an attempt to lynch him yesterday.
Render was spotted last night by a revealed guest (Sndvls) with a bloody knife and likely guilty for one of the night kills.

So right now, I think either of them are fine choices, my hopes are that all of the guests vote together as a block though, or we're going to be outnumbered very fast in this one.

Catching up. Actually, I think that someone who has been witnessed is a far better choice than one who (although I think it likely he is not a guest just by the post Alan quoted earlier more than his vote) is not a certainty. I'm much more in favor of the RendeR move.

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

interesting vote lathum...wtf?

I think you may have nailed it earlier alan...lathum's the sympathizer and he's just playing a "stay alive as long as I can and throw as much shit around and create chaos" kind of role

How can you be surprised by a vote for you? You are one of the acknowledged two candidates today. And I don't believe for a minute that you are a guest.

[DaddyTorgo]

you don't path? *shrug* fine...I am. I will reveal if necessary as I have said all along.

much more interested in what we think about RendeR claiming to have a role beneficial to us guests that is worthless if revealed. Do we buy that and go after SnDvls instead, saving RendeR for the 2nd choice? Or do we think it's a load of BS? (more what i'm leaning towards)

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Wolf covering fellow wolf's tracks.

my thoughts too as PB conviently forgets I voted first and clearly stated why.

[DaddyTorgo]

PB also still has that info he's holding onto for now (allegedly) about someone faking a reveal...

[path12]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

Alan, you've stepped to the head of the house as a strong personality and helpful. Your play isn't crying out for conversion and nobody has challenged your reveal, so I'm pretty sure those two things right now put you at the head of trusted. Show me somebody else that has been as big a leader?

Leader doesn't mean trust in my book. Leader usually means I need to take a much closer look at that person. And since Alan tends to be a leader, that means I usually don't trust Alan for awhile......

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you don't path? *shrug* fine...I am. I will reveal if necessary as I have said all along.

much more interested in what we think about RendeR claiming to have a role beneficial to us guests that is worthless if revealed. Do we buy that and go after SnDvls instead, saving RendeR for the 2nd choice? Or do we think it's a load of BS? (more what i'm leaning towards)

BTW, it's not your vote that makes me think that. It's the fact you said that three good guys were killed last night.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by path12

Leader doesn't mean trust in my book. Leader usually means I need to take a much closer look at that person. And since Alan tends to be a leader, that means I usually don't trust Alan for awhile......

to add to this in one of Alan's 1st games he was a "leader" and very helpful...but was a wolf and a very good one at that so I am always leary of him early on too. Because of that he really has to earn my trust in games.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by path12

BTW, it's not your vote that makes me think that. It's the fact you said that three good guys were killed last night.

eh...so I saw 3 deaths and didn't really stop to read their roles and connect in my mind that cook=servent=bad guy. I was a little ummm...distracted at that time

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by PurdueBrad

I could go along with this. Although looking at N1 votes, RendeR voted with Barkeep (a proven guest) against an unproven entity (St.Cronin) whereas SNDevils voted with Neon (who has come under some fire) and NTN who is an unknown entity against a still unknown entity (Gonzo). I'm not quite sure what all that means except that if we don't get corroboration from Alan, then I may give benefit of the doubt to RendeR based on siding with Barkeep. But it's a slim range.

I already stated what I did last night, and based on Lathum's observation of Sndvls and myself last night, I bye Sndvls story alot more than Render's story. I don't trust Lathum too much right now, but I do believe he is a guest (even if a sympathizer), thus wouldnt have PM rights to stage an elaborate setup of Render in this fashion..

Originally Posted by RendeR

My role is not listed in the rules. I am keeping it quiet because I didn't want that to be a reason for people to go after me. People never need a valid reason to vote for me, its the popular thing to do.

Someone else saw me running away from you, I wasn't told who, but I hope they come forward and expose your lies.

As I just stated above, I don't buy your counter reveal, and I buy this even less. My vote is staying on you.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

you don't path? *shrug* fine...I am. I will reveal if necessary as I have said all along.

much more interested in what we think about RendeR claiming to have a role beneficial to us guests that is worthless if revealed. Do we buy that and go after SnDvls instead, saving RendeR for the 2nd choice? Or do we think it's a load of BS? (more what i'm leaning towards)

I still don't believe you either, and feel right now that you and Render are on opposing bad guy teams.

Originally Posted by path12

Leader doesn't mean trust in my book. Leader usually means I need to take a much closer look at that person. And since Alan tends to be a leader, that means I usually don't trust Alan for awhile......

Thats fine with me. I am quite suprised that Purduebrad has me as his most trusted. perhaps thats a bit naive of him, or perhaps he is a wolf trying to buy my trust by extending trust. I dont know... Either way the only thing I am selling is Guests must stick together to lynch non-guests. We should ignore who may or may not be the sympathizer and try to work on removing the other teams. That is the only way we will win. Could that mean I am one of the sympathizers? Sure, believe that if you want.. but I am not one. If we as the guests start to get off focus and try to hunt down other guests hoping to hit the sympathizer, we are just asking for trouble. We don't get reveals on lynches, so we can't waste valuable lynches on those type of hunches.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

This is the list I have currently:

Upstairs
-------------------------
Mr. Winston
Mrs. Winston
Daria Winston
Joseph Winston

Downstairs
--------------------------
The Butler
The Chambermaid
The Cook Telle (dead)
The Driver

Guests
--------------------------
The Professor Alan T
The Gossip
The Vicar Barkeep (dead)
The Colonel Olliegirl
The Gadabout Lathum
The Lush
The Socialite ArlingtonColt
The Eccentric path12
The Daughter Eaglefan (dead)
The Elderly Gent neon_chaos
The Neighbor Sndvls

Unrevealed
------------------------------------------------

RendeR
Gonzo
PurdueBrad
RPI-Fan
Barkeep49
MrBug708
St. Cronin
ntndeacon
DaddyTorgo
Chief Rum

you have Barkeep listed twice...that leave DT as the Gossip, from my reading of his hint, and only one more "guest". Not RenderR as he says his role isn't listed.

everyone else would fit into either the Downstairs or Upstairs very nicely.
Why would anyone who has already claimed a guest role not be disputed at this point if they aren't who they say they are...is it because the other people can't claim a role they don't know if it's assigned or not?

[ntndeacon]

just caught up. too bad about Eaglesfan and Barkeep. I won't say too bad about Telle though.

Last night I was out searching as well. I did see Render. He was running. I don't know why. I did not notice him carrying anything but I was told in my PM that it was only a quick glimpse. Sorry it isn't more revealing one way or the other.

[Alan T]

Blue is confirmed guest
Light Blue is revealed but unconfirmed guest
Green is confirmed downstairs team
Orange is confirmed upstairs team
Purple is unknown


Day1 votes:

No Lynch - Eaglefan, oliegirl, st. cronin
st cronin - Barkeep49, RendeR
eaglefan - Lathum
DaddyTorgo - RPI-Fan
Lathum - Telle, ArlingtonColt
render - Path12
Neon_Chaos - Alan T, DaddyTorgo, PurdueBrad
Gonzo - SnDvls, ntndeacon, Neon_Chaos

No Votes: Gonzo, Chief Rum


So.. what can we learn from this... Ntn and Gonzo likely are on different teams.. Ntn's vote put Gonzo in high risk of early death. DaddyTorgo and PurdueBrad both put late votes on a player who had revealed as a guest without a counterreveal, placing him in danger, thus both likely are not guests. Thats all I can pick apart right now.

[DaddyTorgo]

thanks anyways ntn. nice to be able to link you into it one way or another.

and yes SnDvls...you are correct.

I AM THE GOSSIP.

[DaddyTorgo]

not a particularly "powerful" role, but 100% guest. Happy being a socialite...don't want to be a worker or an owner.

Rather be talking trash about Paris Hilton tbh.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

you have Barkeep listed twice...that leave DT as the Gossip, from my reading of his hint, and only one more "guest". Not RenderR as he says his role isn't listed.

everyone else would fit into either the Downstairs or Upstairs very nicely.
Why would anyone who has already claimed a guest role not be disputed at this point if they aren't who they say they are...is it because the other people can't claim a role they don't know if it's assigned or not?

My bad about Barkeep being listed twice, I removed him from my list where I had him in the correct place. I agree about DT.. thats the clues I picked up too.. now its out he probably should confirm one way or another.. I purposely was not mentioning it from when I went back and looked and was continuing throwing his name out there as bait to see who would latch on. I still have my evidence I could use to swing the vote a bit in the favor of saving DT if needed.. but now that this is out there, I don't think I can do that anymore. ah well So yeah, DT probably should come out and confirm it one way or another, just so we can have it in stone.. and sorry for using you as bait this morning. Once I figured out the hint I didn't want to give it away

[DaddyTorgo]

that's fine alan. I didn't want you to throw it out there and clear me...thought we had a nice little two-man game going there and hopefully we could pull someone into it and snare them via a fake-reveal or voting for me.

[DaddyTorgo]

I figured you had figured it out from my hint. You're not exactly dense

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

my thoughts too as PB conviently forgets I voted first and clearly stated why.

Sun, my implication wasn't that your vote itself was specific, just that the trailing votes were. Sorry for not being clear.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

just caught up. too bad about Eaglesfan and Barkeep. I won't say too bad about Telle though.

Last night I was out searching as well. I did see Render. He was running. I don't know why. I did not notice him carrying anything but I was told in my PM that it was only a quick glimpse. Sorry it isn't more revealing one way or the other.

There we go. I'm just glad you were willing to come out with this NTN, if the person who saw me had been on one of the two teams I was worried they'd let me hang.

So whats up now SNdvls? Are you one of the supporters hoping to get attention by going after me? Or have you fake revealed hoping to stay hidden?

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by Alan T

PurdueBrad both put late votes on a player who had revealed as a guest without a counterreveal, placing him in danger, thus both likely are not guests. Thats all I can pick apart right now.

Alan, I do admit after some considering and reconsidering that I put my vote on a revealed guest.

Guess I don't really need to post that as it is on the wall but why hide it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

There we go. I'm just glad you were willing to come out with this NTN, if the person who saw me had been on one of the two teams I was worried they'd let me hang.

So whats up now SNdvls? Are you one of the supporters hoping to get attention by going after me? Or have you fake revealed hoping to stay hidden?

I don't know that having someone that is not revealed as a guest giving vague night PM information that doesn't really clear or damn you does much for your arguement here. I'm not swayed at all by this, and if anything think that ntn just alligned himself with you moreso.. which tells me thus far the teams likely are Render + ntn + others vs Gonzo + PurdueBrad + others

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Blue is confirmed guest
Light Blue is revealed but unconfirmed guest
Green is confirmed downstairs team
Orange is confirmed upstairs team
Purple is unknown


Day1 votes:

No Lynch - Eaglefan, oliegirl, st. cronin
st cronin - Barkeep49, RendeR
eaglefan - Lathum
DaddyTorgo - RPI-Fan
Lathum - Telle, ArlingtonColt
render - Path12
Neon_Chaos - Alan T, DaddyTorgo, PurdueBrad
Gonzo - SnDvls, ntndeacon, Neon_Chaos

No Votes: Gonzo, Chief Rum


So.. what can we learn from this... Ntn and Gonzo likely are on different teams.. Ntn's vote put Gonzo in high risk of early death. DaddyTorgo and PurdueBrad both put late votes on a player who had revealed as a guest without a counterreveal, placing him in danger, thus both likely are not guests. Thats all I can pick apart right now.

you are missing a no vote by MrBug too

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

you are missing a no vote by MrBug too

Thanks, fixed my sheet again. Speaking of no votes, we still haven't heard from Chief, and with his work schedule I'm thinking he might not even show up today until post-deadline.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't know that having someone that is not revealed as a guest giving vague night PM information that doesn't really clear or damn you does much for your arguement here. I'm not swayed at all by this, and if anything think that ntn just alligned himself with you moreso.. which tells me thus far the teams likely are Render + ntn + others vs Gonzo + PurdueBrad + others

exactly why I was glad to see it. Either way, it's another piece of information

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't know that having someone that is not revealed as a guest giving vague night PM information that doesn't really clear or damn you does much for your arguement here. I'm not swayed at all by this, and if anything think that ntn just alligned himself with you moreso.. which tells me thus far the teams likely are Render + ntn + others vs Gonzo + PurdueBrad + others

looks like he either just outted a teammate with the ploy instead of just taking one for the team or just threw him under the bus not sure which right now.