Back to the Future (Night 12 Deadline: Tuesday 10 PM EST)

[EagleFan]

Update:

Added details about the Plutonium in the rules. Added potential abilities which could appear in the game.

[EagleFan]

[EagleFan]

[EagleFan]

Some have heard that song but maybe it sounds more like this to you now, or what you knew as now...

[fontisian]

I think I'll actually read the rules this time.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

[/b]
Plutonium - How else are you going to get 1.21 gigawatts of power. Bullies gain ability to force doc to shift time whenever they want if they gain possession of it. Koranians can make a dirty bomb with it in the present day or future if they gain possession of it. Citizens can use it to attempt to 'bribe' a terrorist (scan).

Looks like we'll probably be heading to the future at some point.

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Convert - Convince someone to take your side

Knew it! Unfortunatly, that makes scans, vote analysis and reads in general a lot more complicated.

Marty's scan in the past doesn't pick up Biff or the Koranian Nationals, which means its main use is as a scumhunter, not a townfirmer. Similar limitations apply to the plutonium, which doesn't pick up on any of the wolves. The "Symphathize" thing and conversions might really screw with scans as well. Hopefully, we'll have some other advantages to make up for the disadvantages inherent in the scans.

[Danny]

Wow forgot the game had started

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by Danny

Wow forgot the game had started

It hasn't. It's currently Friday 13th. The game starts in a couple of days.

[Narcizo]

Sooo, no lynch and no kill. My suggestion is that we don't vote Schmidty or Mau today to try and maximise voting information. Although I'm not certain how useful vote tallies will be. But we might as well try to make the most what we're given.

[Narcizo]

Ahhh! The 80s. Acne and masturbating like a monkey on viagra.

Wait! Did I say that out loud? D'oh!

I meant "Ahh! The 80s. Gothettes and Indie Grlz."

[JAG]

Originally Posted by fontisian

I think I'll actually read the rules this time.


Looks like we'll probably be heading to the future at some point.


Knew it! Unfortunatly, that makes scans, vote analysis and reads in general a lot more complicated.

Marty's scan in the past doesn't pick up Biff or the Koranian Nationals, which means its main use is as a scumhunter, not a townfirmer. Similar limitations apply to the plutonium, which doesn't pick up on any of the wolves. The "Symphathize" thing and conversions might really screw with scans as well. Hopefully, we'll have some other advantages to make up for the disadvantages inherent in the scans.

Yeah, a non-wolf scan is practically useless to be honest, except to remove only one of the many possibilities of someone being anti-villager.

[JAG]

Vote GoldenEagle

[JAG]

Not a fan that he held his vote most of the day despite being around. He also didn't get traction yesterday after getting an early vote. Not much to go on, but for Day 2...Day 1 again...Day -3...whatever, it's what I've got.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by JAG

Yeah, a non-wolf scan is practically useless to be honest, except to remove only one of the many possibilities of someone being anti-villager.

I don't see where you guys are getting the idea that there is a non-wolf scan. Marty's scan looks for Biff's Bullys it says, which are wolves, right? It looks for one set of bad guys and I guess the plutonium could look for the other set of bad guys, right? You're just suggesting it's useless if it can't discover both types of baddies? I don't think that's true. Any information is helpful and based on other info we might have at the time could be even more revealing (if we've already made some deductions or had reveals). The real limit is that Marty's only works in the past, so if Biff's wolves get their hands on the plutonium presumably we won't be going there.

I presume either items are only transferred on death, or that there's a "must pass every night" mechanic.

[saldana]

interesting...i have a theory on the shifting

if the distance in time that we shift is random, then there is a possibility that we will shift back forward at some point...if we pass day 1, then Mau will be dead..if we shift to day one exactly, then we would replay the day, and could alter the future by voting for someone different.

so, lets just say Mau is Marty and when we shift to day 2, he is dead but then we shift back a day to day 1...we can change the vote to someone else and keep marty from dying.

that would seem to be in line with the movie to me

the next thought is, can we somehow control the shifting

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

You have no idea what happened, you were about to announce your decision but have been shifted back in time. Welcome to Day -3... that whole day 1 vote hasn't even occurred yet.

You have entered a bizarre world where hair is big and the music rocks, for the most part. An actor is president and terrorists are starting to hate us.

There is one major event that unfolds in front of you. You see a man, who looks like BarKeep, lying motionless on the ground with a knife in his back and a note attached. It says...

ONE DAY YOU WILL KNOW MY NAME AND FEAR ME!!!!

There is a killer among you.

"Not in MY TOWN!!! I will destroy all you losers to save my town!!!"

Okay, there is also a psycho among you.... isn't that just great...


Day -3 Has BEGUN!!! You will be lynching someone tomorrow night, or Biff will kick you *ss he says.

So are we presuming that the knife in the back is from the Koranian leader? I presume so, just based on what we know of the game so far, but the depiction of him as a knife killer doesn't say "foreign national leader" to me. I'm going with the assumption he was just small-time in the '80s I guess.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by saldana

interesting...i have a theory on the shifting

if the distance in time that we shift is random, then there is a possibility that we will shift back forward at some point...if we pass day 1, then Mau will be dead..if we shift to day one exactly, then we would replay the day, and could alter the future by voting for someone different.

so, lets just say Mau is Marty and when we shift to day 2, he is dead but then we shift back a day to day 1...we can change the vote to someone else and keep marty from dying.

that would seem to be in line with the movie to me

the next thought is, can we somehow control the shifting

I think what you say makes sense. Although I'll point out that in the writeup we never quite got to the point of killing Mauchow, so I don't know if he's officially dead in the future or not. I suppose I should have checked the list before I started typing this.

I presume at this point Doc or Marty is in charge of shifting, from the description of the Plutonium but it's not exactly spelled out.

[Autumn]

Mau's not marked dead, so I guess we'll find out if he happens to show up.

I'm presuming then that in this game if you get killed you should hang out still and not say anything as we could end up going to the past when you're still alive?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Day One Totals:

mauchow 6 (9) - The Jackal (75), saldana (106), Zinto (147), GoldenEagle (161), fontisian (178), Autumn (181)
Schmidty 3 (6) - Autumn (69 unvote 181), Narcizo (111), britrock88 (116), DaddyTorgo (176)
Danny (3)
britrock88 2 - Chief Rum (132), murrayyyyy (136), fontisian (144 unvote 178)
DaddyTorgo 1 - JAG (90)
murrayyyyy 1 - KWhit (84), Zinto (127 unvote 147)
GoldenEagle 0 - britrock88 (56 unvote 116)
The Jackal 0 - fontisian (48 unvote 144), Narcizo (62 unvote 111)
saldana 0 - JAG (46 unvote 57)
Narcizo 0 - JAG (57 unvote 90)

Yet to vote: mauchow, Schmidty, Danny

Final vote tally for those interested. Danny has shown up. Frankly I'm likely to just off one of the other two again if they don't show up. We'll lynch their parents and they'll never be born! But in the meantime we can do some real voting.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I don't see where you guys are getting the idea that there is a non-wolf scan. Marty's scan looks for Biff's Bullys it says, which are wolves, right? It looks for one set of bad guys and I guess the plutonium could look for the other set of bad guys, right? You're just suggesting it's useless if it can't discover both types of baddies? I don't think that's true. Any information is helpful and based on other info we might have at the time could be even more revealing (if we've already made some deductions or had reveals). The real limit is that Marty's only works in the past, so if Biff's wolves get their hands on the plutonium presumably we won't be going there.

I presume either items are only transferred on death, or that there's a "must pass every night" mechanic.

I didn't mean the scan was useless, not at all. Just that a Marty scan that turns up a non-Biff follower is not even close to clearing a player with the possibility of cunning / conversion / sympathizer / Koranian. Whereas in a normal game I would give a good bit of trust for a clean scan even with a cunning, in this game I would give very little trust to a player scanned as not-Biff follower.

[Narcizo]

It says that the Bullies can force Doc to shift time if they have the plutonium - dunno if that implies that Doc can shift time otherwise or not.

[JAG]

Plutonium - How else are you going to get 1.21 gigawatts of power. Bullies gain ability to force doc to shift time whenever they want if they gain possession of it. Koranians can make a dirty bomb with it in the present day or future if they gain possession of it. Citizens can use it to attempt to 'bribe' a terrorist (scan).

That sounds like Doc Brown controls the time shifting. Obviously we need to make absolutely certain that the plutonium stays in villager hands. No clue how to accomplish that at this point though.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Stop the Terrorists

A vocal and well known resident Biff Tennen has come out to issue a warning to anyone that may try to harm HIS town. He has made this town to be what it is today through what some consider strong armed tactics but he has also become quite protective of what he feels is rightly his.

Many of you have grown up with Biff and there are numerous stories about what he did to those he saw as weak. He owns much of the town thanks to some underhanded tactics and what amounts to extremely good luck at sports gambling. Every resident has a story to tell about what happens when he feels that someone has crossed him.

We also need to somehow alter the past so we get a much wussier version of Biff in the present and future.

[JAG]

Lynching him would help in that regard.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Sooo, no lynch and no kill. My suggestion is that we don't vote Schmidty or Mau today to try and maximise voting information. Although I'm not certain how useful vote tallies will be. But we might as well try to make the most what we're given.

I agree with this. There is not much point in voting for Mau or Schmidty today and hopefully both show up.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by JAG

I didn't mean the scan was useless, not at all. Just that a Marty scan that turns up a non-Biff follower is not even close to clearing a player with the possibility of cunning / conversion / sympathizer / Koranian. Whereas in a normal game I would give a good bit of trust for a clean scan even with a cunning, in this game I would give very little trust to a player scanned as not-Biff follower.

I see, yes, that leaves a lot more options out there than a normal game might, agreed. We're just going to have to lynch them and let the Mod sort them out.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by JAG

We also need to somehow alter the past so we get a much wussier version of Biff in the present and future.

That's interesting, you may just be goofing, but I wonder if that sort of thing is a possibility. No real point in speculating, but EF may have some events or behind the scenes things that "alter" the situation outside of simply lynching.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

so it's between Schmidty and Mau right now?

I think this was Murray's last comment, and then he proceeded to leave his vote on Britrock. That seems a bit odd.

[Autumn]

At the moment I'm looking at all the low posters, and ignoring the no-shows for the moment. Murray pinged me for that last comment and I'll keep an eye on him, but so far the winner for least participation of the ones I've read is Kwhit, who just cast a random vote and left.

[Autumn]

VOTE KWHIT

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Mau's not marked dead, so I guess we'll find out if he happens to show up.

I'm presuming then that in this game if you get killed you should hang out still and not say anything as we could end up going to the past when you're still alive?

When you're dead, you will be marked as dead. Once you are marked you will be out of the game. Until then, you are still in the game. I will also notify anyone that dies with a PM so they know.

[EagleFan]

As of post 230:

GoldenEagle 1 - JAG (211)
KWhit 1 - Autumn (229)

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by Autumn

That's interesting, you may just be goofing, but I wonder if that sort of thing is a possibility. No real point in speculating, but EF may have some events or behind the scenes things that "alter" the situation outside of simply lynching.

We can see that people have powers that only work in one time based on the role updates to Marty/Doc, so I bet that the bad guys have similar time-based powers. Probably some sacrificial choices in there that could alter what they can do in the future - maybe tied to lynching, scanning, conversion. There's a lot of speculation we can do but it seems like things will become revealed over time. For now we need some voting history.

That said, I bet powers shift as well. For instance Marty can scan for wolves now, maybe in the future he'll be able to scan for Koranians?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by JAG

I didn't mean the scan was useless, not at all. Just that a Marty scan that turns up a non-Biff follower is not even close to clearing a player with the possibility of cunning / conversion / sympathizer / Koranian. Whereas in a normal game I would give a good bit of trust for a clean scan even with a cunning, in this game I would give very little trust to a player scanned as not-Biff follower.

Agreed on this front - only a scan that turns up a bad guy will be very useful at this point.

[The Jackal]

VOTE GOLDENEAGLE

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by JAG

Not a fan that he held his vote most of the day despite being around. He also didn't get traction yesterday after getting an early vote. Not much to go on, but for Day 2...Day 1 again...Day -3...whatever, it's what I've got.

This would make sense if we found out anything about mauchow. But since we didn't find out anything about him. then I disagree with the reasoning.

I also traditionally hold my vote until the end. I know it had been awhile since we played, so I don't suspect anyone will remember that.

I guess I could have voted for someone else who was not on the block, but that wouldn't make sense. By making a late vote, you stick your neck out.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Autumn

At the moment I'm looking at all the low posters, and ignoring the no-shows for the moment. Murray pinged me for that last comment and I'll keep an eye on him, but so far the winner for least participation of the ones I've read is Kwhit, who just cast a random vote and left.

Well, yeah. There's basically nothing to go on yet. Personally, I find the people who try to over-justify their votes on Day Ones to be more suspicious. Of course Day One votes are random.

But I've been trying to process the rules and tease out how they might help (or more likely hurt) the village. For instance, the fact that Jag pointed out about scans not able to clear anyone is a tough handicap on the village. That coupled with the potential of cunning and conversion make our scans pretty weak.

So how else can we find the bad guys? And is there a way to use the time travel mechanic to our advantage in that? I don't know what the rules are surrounding time travel, but would it make sense to go forward in time a bunch of days and lynch someone? If it turns out to be a villager, we move backward a day so the person (presumably) comes back to life and we lynch someone else.

Rinse and repeat until we win.

Not sure if the rules allow for that, but maybe we need to do that now - before the Bullies find Doc Brown.

Thoughts?

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Well, yeah. There's basically nothing to go on yet. Personally, I find the people who try to over-justify their votes on Day Ones to be more suspicious. Of course Day One votes are random.

But I've been trying to process the rules and tease out how they might help (or more likely hurt) the village. For instance, the fact that Jag pointed out about scans not able to clear anyone is a tough handicap on the village. That coupled with the potential of cunning and conversion make our scans pretty weak.

So how else can we find the bad guys? And is there a way to use the time travel mechanic to our advantage in that? I don't know what the rules are surrounding time travel, but would it make sense to go forward in time a bunch of days and lynch someone? If it turns out to be a villager, we move backward a day so the person (presumably) comes back to life and we lynch someone else.

Rinse and repeat until we win.

Not sure if the rules allow for that, but maybe we need to do that now - before the Bullies find Doc Brown.

Thoughts?

I'm guessing there are limitations on how much time can be shifted. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a one-off ability for Doc coupled with the chance of the wolves/Koranians being able to influence a time-shift at some point.

I'm thinking the one we already experienced was going to happen no matter what we did D1.

[Chief Rum]

This strikes me as a game where time shifts based on conditions in the game, as well as the decisions of individual players. Doc obviously has the ability to shift time, but does he control it right now? I'm not sure he does.

I have no idea what governs the time shifting, but I'm guessing there is more than one factor/condition or player in control of it.

I also woner if there is a set "game day" in which win conditions are judged. Take mau for instance. Right now he is alive, in present day and in the past. We don't know if he is alive in the future, but one would surmise he is not.

So what if win conditions are judged only as they are in the present? Lynch someone in the future, it does you little good unless you reach that day in "the present".

The present right now, based on passing days, should be Day Two, right? Mau might even be dead in that hypothetical Day Two because we lynched him. But we never found out because we jumped back to Day -3.

And as has been surmised, our decisions now could change our decisions in the future. Maybe we lynch a mau voter now and that undoes the mau lynch later on, because that vote no longer counts (I know someone else already suggested this).

So maybe we should aim to vote for non-mau voters, to protect the integrity of our mau vote.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

I'm guessing there are limitations on how much time can be shifted. I wouldn't be surprised if it was a one-off ability for Doc coupled with the chance of the wolves/Koranians being able to influence a time-shift at some point.

I'm thinking the one we already experienced was going to happen no matter what we did D1.

It is funny you should say that, because I think the opposite. I suspect time will shift with every deadline (or will have the option to remain in the same time, but that chance will be the same as moving to any other individual time).

My pet theory right now is that there are three "game days", and we can call them past, present and future.

We started in the present. It was Day One, it is now Day Two.

We have jumped to the past. The past probably started at Day -4. It is now Day -3.

Going on that logic, the future started as Day Four, and is now Day Five.

So if I am right, if we stay in the past at the deadline, it will be Day -2. If we jump to the present, it will be Day Three (and mau will be dead). If we jump to the future, it will be Day Six.

[Autumn]

What you're saying makes sense, Chief, except that I don't expect we'll jump every day. I assume that part of the game is wresting control over the time jumps with each group wanting to be in a different time. It seems that at the moment at least Marty does best in the past so I expect we'll say there unless the bad guys get control.

[The Jackal]

Interesting theory Chief, gives me something to think about at work

[The Jackal]

Do you think that if we jump ahead and it's D3, and mau is dead, then jump back and it's say .. D-1, that mau would be able to participate as long as it was anytime before D2?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

This would make sense if we found out anything about mauchow. But since we didn't find out anything about him. then I disagree with the reasoning.

I also traditionally hold my vote until the end. I know it had been awhile since we played, so I don't suspect anyone will remember that.

I guess I could have voted for someone else who was not on the block, but that wouldn't make sense. By making a late vote, you stick your neck out.

No villager is going to have great reasoning at this point as we have little information. You didn't gather votes D1 which is sometimes indicative of having wolfy teammates. You haven't made a case for another player to this point or given an opinion about anyone. You voted for Mau over Schmidty without explanation. So I'm ok with my vote for now because you haven't given much information out to this point.

[JAG]

The mechanics talk is cool and interesting, but I think at this point we're better off trying to parse what we can from D1 to try and make a decent vote today.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by JAG

The mechanics talk is cool and interesting, but I think at this point we're better off trying to parse what we can from D1 to try and make a decent vote today.

Then feel free to do that.

No reason we can't do both.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Do you think that if we jump ahead and it's D3, and mau is dead, then jump back and it's say .. D-1, that mau would be able to participate as long as it was anytime before D2?

I think so, yes. That's the only thing that's logical to me.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by JAG

No villager is going to have great reasoning at this point as we have little information. You didn't gather votes D1 which is sometimes indicative of having wolfy teammates. You haven't made a case for another player to this point or given an opinion about anyone. You voted for Mau over Schmidty without explanation. So I'm ok with my vote for now because you haven't given much information out to this point.

I think brtirock placed an early vote on me, so by that speculation you should also be looking at him as well.

It is Day 1. It is hard to formulate a case for anyone at this point. I mean, neither mau or Schmidty checked in, so i just had to chose one or the other. At the time, it was tied and then some others came in and voted behind me. I didn't even place the deciding vote.

[GoldenEagle]

I think the Day 1 vote is meaningless and mau will be able to participate as normal if he ever shows up.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think this was Murray's last comment, and then he proceeded to leave his vote on Britrock. That seems a bit odd.

When I asked, the people who could move and create a tie weren't listed at the bottom so I saw no reason to move my vote. I was room-sitting to move my vote to prevent the tie but someone moved it to make it two votes (was it you? going off memory). DT (I think) created the tie and then Font moved her vote. After the next person put it up by 2 I saw no reason to move.

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

This strikes me as a game where time shifts based on conditions in the game, as well as the decisions of individual players. Doc obviously has the ability to shift time, but does he control it right now? I'm not sure he does.

I have no idea what governs the time shifting, but I'm guessing there is more than one factor/condition or player in control of it.

I also woner if there is a set "game day" in which win conditions are judged. Take mau for instance. Right now he is alive, in present day and in the past. We don't know if he is alive in the future, but one would surmise he is not.

So what if win conditions are judged only as they are in the present? Lynch someone in the future, it does you little good unless you reach that day in "the present".

The present right now, based on passing days, should be Day Two, right? Mau might even be dead in that hypothetical Day Two because we lynched him. But we never found out because we jumped back to Day -3.

And as has been surmised, our decisions now could change our decisions in the future. Maybe we lynch a mau voter now and that undoes the mau lynch later on, because that vote no longer counts (I know someone else already suggested this).

So maybe we should aim to vote for non-mau voters, to protect the integrity of our mau vote.

So if you start killing off mau voters does it create a tie in the future if two of the the mau-voters die in the next 3 days? So someone has to keep track of who was suppose to die on what day so we don't create random deaths in the future.

So dog-piling your votes at the end is a good thing suddenly?