2024 NFL Season Thread

[stevew]

Yeah, Ryan Shazier did.

[miami_fan]

Tua Tagovailoa's contract: How could retirement affect QB's deal? Salary cap expert forecasts what's next - CBSSports.com

On a related note, when Chris Bosh was diagnosed with the heart issues that ended his career, he searched and searched for a doctor that would clear him to play and get the final $52 million left on his contract. Bosh and the Heat ended up settling with the Heat paying out the entire $52 mil in 120 twice-monthly installments of $434,393 that ended in 2022.

[GrantDawg]

"In the end, were Tagovailoa to voluntarily retire, Corry believes the Dolphins would be unlikely to pursue a full return on the remainder of the quarterback's signing bonus. Still, given the anticipated void in guarantees, he estimates Tagovailoa would be walking away from a total of $124 million, barring some kind of drastic settlement negotiated with the team."

This is what I was talking about. Unless the doctor says he can never play again (unlikely), he is going to lose a substantial amount of money, including possibily a good portion of his signing bonus if he retires. It makes sense for the team and the player to make some kind of mutual agreement so he can walk away, and the team does not look like they are forcing him to return to get his money.

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[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

"In the end, were Tagovailoa to voluntarily retire, Corry believes the Dolphins would be unlikely to pursue a full return on the remainder of the quarterback's signing bonus. Still, given the anticipated void in guarantees, he estimates Tagovailoa would be walking away from a total of $124 million, barring some kind of drastic settlement negotiated with the team."

This is what I was talking about. Unless the doctor says he can never play again (unlikely), he is going to lose a substantial amount of money, including possibily a good portion of his signing bonus if he retires. It makes sense for the team and the player to make some kind of mutual agreement so he can walk away, and the team does not look like they are forcing him to return to get his money.

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That last part is what reminded me of Bosh and the Heat. The team doctor would not clear him to play despite Bosh wanting to play. Bosh retired, came off the team's books and the Heat fulfilled the rest of his contract anyways. The doctor mentioned in the article is the Dolphins' team doctor. Is it that big of a leap to suggest that the reason the team doctor would clear Tua is because the team would be on the hook for $167.2 million if he did not?

After hearing the comments from Antonio Pierce and Doug Pederson, I want to believe that Rog ordered the broadcast partners to push the Tua should retire narrative. This is the second straight Dolphin Thursday night game where Tua had a a fencing response after being hit in the helmet. I feel like this should be it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Nobody asked but I'm entirely in McDaniel's camp on this one

The future is a decision for Tua, his family, and his doctors.

Pierce & Pederson should both fuck right on off afaic, they don't get to decide another man's future, and most especially a competitor in their own conference.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Nobody asked but I'm entirely in McDaniel's camp on this one

The future is a decision for Tua, his family, and his doctors.

Pierce & Pederson should both fuck right on off afaic, they don't get to decide another man's future, and most especially a competitor in their own conference.

Also water is wet.

Of course the final decision is between Tua, his family and his doctors. I guess the coaches can give a no comment, or say they are not familiar with the case etc. I don't think either said anything out of bounds.

Here is Pierce's response when asked for his reaction.

"I'll be honest, I'd tell him to retire. It's not worth it," Pierce said. "Playing the game, I haven't witnessed anything like what's happened to him three times. Scary -- you could see right away; the players' faces on the field. You could see the sense of urgency from everybody to get Tua help. I just think at some point -- he's going to live longer than he's going to play football. Take care of your family."

Here is Pederson's.

"If it was one of our guys, you have to be very careful and do the right thing for the player. I think that's the most important thing," Pederson said. "It's part of the game that obviously we're trying to remove; I just don't know if we can fully remove it because of the nature of these hits. I think you just have to continue to think about the player and the health and safety of the player and making sure they're 1,000 percent healthy. Those are just decisions that I think, personally, as a player you have to consider as you think about your career.

"Everybody wants to play, and they love this game so much and they give so much to it that, when things like this happen, reality kind of hits a little bit, and it shows the human side of our sport."

Those feel like pretty reasonable responses to the questions especially from former players turned head coaches who probably still identify with the other players on the field as well as Tua. I know this is crass to say but it's true. I am a Dolphins/Tua fan but, I don't think anyone believes head coaches across the league will be wiping the sweat off their brow in relief because they no longer have to face Tua if he is forced to retire. Just like anyone else who has seen the four NFL concussions Tua has suffered (yes, I am including the BS "back" injury he suffered against ironically the Bills.), Pierce and Pederson gave their opinion but the points of view of current head coaches and former players. Since I am already being crass, if Damar Hamilin suffers the same heart injury four times, I feel like no one would be questioning an opposing coach giving those responses.

[QuikSand]

I think there's a strong incentive for the league to step in and cut a cap-management deal with the Dolphins. Screw Ross (owner) on cash, but don't hobble the franchise here if the best resolution for Tua is to stop playing - they shuffle around some rules to lessen the inferno of dead cap in the event that the team abides by his decision to step away. Seems like an element in the best way to set up a soft landing there, imo.

[JonInMiddleGA]

All the talk about the money, salary cap considerations, so forth, really doesn't move me. I get it, but it doesn't move me.

It hits me more from the standpoint of other people saying what somebody "should" do when it's not them being told to walk away from such a sizable portion of their life.

I don't know where football sits in his priorities ... but I'm adamant that his choice about where it fits is his & his alone.

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

aw I was gonna make that joke

If Fields plays decently vs. Denver this weekend it will no longer be a joke (Wilson to the Dolphins).

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All the talk about the money, salary cap considerations, so forth, really doesn't move me. I get it, but it doesn't move me.

It hits me more from the standpoint of other people saying what somebody "should" do when it's not them being told to walk away from such a sizable portion of their life.

I don't know where football sits in his priorities ... but I'm adamant that his choice about where it fits is his & his alone.

Agreed! And I would feel the same way if their advice were to go through the protocol and come back as soon as he gets the all clear. The call is ultimately his if the team and the league will allow him to play.

That is why I would only want to hear the opinions of these former players who have also been faced with the decision to walk away from such a sizable portion of their life. They also have a perspective that comes with age and experience that Tua can't have at this point in his life of what life as a former player can look like. Tua has every right to disagree with them or anyone else and probably will ignore all the white noise. But I would be shocked if Tua does not seek the opinion of a former player or two that he trusts for their opinion and consider that opinion along with the opinions of his doctors and family before he ultimately decides what he wants to do.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All the talk about the money, salary cap considerations, so forth, really doesn't move me. I get it, but it doesn't move me.

It hits me more from the standpoint of other people saying what somebody "should" do when it's not them being told to walk away from such a sizable portion of their life.

I don't know where football sits in his priorities ... but I'm adamant that his choice about where it fits is his & his alone.

The first point, absolutely. The NFL and NFLPA have a CBA and Tagovailoa has specific rights, as do the Dolphins. That work has been done and the money situation shouldn't be an emotional one.

The second point, no. Human existence builds on its collective wisdom. We have evolved so much further than our genetic structure alone because we have a wealth of knowledge at our fingertips.

We also are at a cultural place where being starting quarterback of an NFL team is something 32 men do, and this is the absolute pinnacle of athletic achievement. There are more forces pulling in one direction or another than one person could possibly manage.

In that sense, there needs to be a set of guidelines, because, as we saw two years ago, when Damar Hamlin was injured and it looked like he wasn't going to survive the night, it felt awful. And Hamlin is a name I doubt most casual NFL fans had even heard in their lives. Imagine if that were one of the 32 out there.

There's a societal obligation that goes beyond Tagovailoa and his family. He makes the final decision, but there are limits, and those limits need to come from wisdom no individual who isn't a medical specialist in head injuries can give him.

If Tagovailoa decides to go back out there, takes another fairly benign-looking hit, and dies on the field, the impact would be extraordinary.

The best medical experts in the country need to understand why he experienced what looks like a severe concussion from impact that looked like half of the plays in a normal game. And if they conclude that either because of genetics or because of past concussions, Tagovailoa is simply prone to this, the NFL can't let him play again and it should not be his decision.

He's too important to all of us. And, really, that should go for any athlete, by extension, but there's going to be a lot of talk about this particular case as he recovers.

[Passacaglia]

Just replace him with Taulia

[Atocep]

It's just one game, but this is crazy.

Here's a bizarre number: Harrison's top speed in Week 1 was just 16.7 mph, per NFL Next Gen Stats. That's on all plays, not just on plays as a ball carrier. I'll be the first to tell you that top speeds are a product of circumstance more than anything else. Get the ball in space and make a dash to the end zone? You'll be faster than DK Metcalf on a dig route. But 16.7 is low. Since the start of last season, there have been 1,730 games in which wide receivers have taken at least 25 offensive snaps. Harrison's Week 1 top speed ranks No. 1,699 on that list. If we filter out plays with the ball, it's a similar result.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

It's just one game, but this is crazy.

I have no idea what to make of it but I remember some people were very concerned about him having such a high contested rate in college. Like the guys with high contest rates almost always bust.


He'll probably now go on to catch 12 balls for 200 yards this weekend.

[Ksyrup]

I'm not sure I even understand what the implication is. He's slow, or he wasn't trying, or both?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm not sure I even understand what the implication is. He's slow, or he wasn't trying, or both?

I feel like it’s implying both maybe?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

He's too important to all of us. .

So "we" just collectively decide what's right for him. T'hell with what he thinks about it, "we" know better for him.

Umm, yeah, fuck that.

[QuikSand]

But the worry is that he skipped the rookie combines etc partially to hide that he's not physically all that impressive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let me just clear up one little thing.

There's rules about concussions in place, agreed to by both the league and the players. The oft-mentioned "protocol".

I'm not saying Tua gets to override the rules. I'm saying that if he passes whatever series of tests (etc, et al) those rules call for then he deserves the right to be treated like everybody else.

If they want a different set of rules for some sub-group of players, okey dokey, write those up and everybody sign off.

But in the absence of that, have the decency to treat him like an adult.

[Lathum]

The Saints may be good.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Let me just clear up one little thing.

There's rules about concussions in place, agreed to by both the league and the players. The oft-mentioned "protocol".

I'm not saying Tua gets to override the rules. I'm saying that if he passes whatever series of tests (etc, et al) those rules call for then he deserves the right to be treated like everybody else.

If they want a different set of rules for some sub-group of players, okey dokey, write those up and everybody sign off.

But in the absence of that, have the decency to treat him like an adult.

In that framework, we are in agreement.

I would suggest that, right now, it is in the best interest of both the NFL and the NFLPA to have frequent discussions with concussion experts, keeping in mind how it would affect the sport if a star quarterback with a concussion history is killed on the field.

Whatever tests they come up with should apply to all players.

They have started this process with the concussion protocol. But this is a relatively new field of research for neuroscience and they need to ask some questions given what we saw with Tagovailoa, knowing they might not want to hear the answers.

It is unacceptable to say "we have this covered under existing protocol" when we see someone with a known concussion history experience a severe concussion from a relatively normal football play. It may have been random bad luck, but it also might be an indication that the existing protocol doesn't protect the players enough.

[miami_fan]

Random stat lines I did not expect to see today.

Malik Willis is currently 12/14 122 yards 1 TD 0 INT with about 4 minutes left in the 4th.

Aaron Rodgers is 13/24 116 yards 2 TD 0 INT at the start of the 4th.

[RainMaker]

OK maybe Marvin Harrison Jr is good.

[JPhillips]

I'm liking this Bengals offense. No point in having 5 TEs on the roster if you aren't going to run 2 and 3 TE sets.

[Solecismic]

The Commanders beat the Giants, 21-18, on Siebert's seventh field goal as time expired.

The Giants had three touchdowns, but Gano was hurt on the opening kickoff. Their punter missed the extra point after the first touchdown and they didn't convert on two-point conversions on the other two and passed up a field goal attempt to go for it on fourth down from about extra-point distance late in the fourth quarter with the score tied at 18.

I'm not sure why they gave up on the punter so quickly. It seems like they should have set him up with the long-snapper and had him working on this so he could at least have the feel of step-step kick. But since quarterbacks no longer train in kick holding (thanks, Romo), maybe they didn't have anyone else on the roster who knew laces-out.

[bhlloy]

How fast is Marvin Harrison Jr. running this week?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

How fast is Marvin Harrison Jr. running this week?

Somebody pissed that guy off.

[Drake]

I didn't see the game, but Aiden Hutchinson's line in the Lions loss is bonkers.

He might be pretty good.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

How fast is Marvin Harrison Jr. running this week?

And my blood pressure has gone down, thank you Marvin. What a change from Week 1,

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

The Commanders beat the Giants, 21-18, on Siebert's seventh field goal as time expired.

The Giants had three touchdowns, but Gano was hurt on the opening kickoff. Their punter missed the extra point after the first touchdown and they didn't convert on two-point conversions on the other two and passed up a field goal attempt to go for it on fourth down from about extra-point distance late in the fourth quarter with the score tied at 18.

I'm not sure why they gave up on the punter so quickly. It seems like they should have set him up with the long-snapper and had him working on this so he could at least have the feel of step-step kick. But since quarterbacks no longer train in kick holding (thanks, Romo), maybe they didn't have anyone else on the roster who knew laces-out.

i don't think they are going to cut their kicker this week...

[Thomkal]

I think carolina might have to fire their whole team after 2 games-coaches and all.

[Ksyrup]

It's Stidham/Wilson time.

Only play of the day is a trick play big pass, followed by an end zone INT.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

It's Stidham/Wilson time.

Only play of the day is a trick play big pass, followed by an end zone INT.

You don't give up on a first-round quarterback draft pick in his second game, but it is time to worry about it. That interception was a pick-nix (took away six points rather than gave them to the other team) - not the time and place to forget that there might be competent underneath coverage. That last downfield pass might have been even worse - wide open 40 yards downfield and he practically threw it into the stands.

[Ksyrup]

I don't see the accuracy that's supposed to set him apart. They don't have weapons but when the guys we do have get open, he's still missing them. It's definitely discouraging.

Just in the past 5 minutes I watched him overthrow a guy on the sideline on the run and then underthrow a guy across the middle.

[GrantDawg]

So it is Auburn Bo Nix then.

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[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The Saints may be good.

This fact never surprises me

[Atocep]

I think the big concern with Nix this early would be he's 24 years old and was supposed to be a high floor guy after more than 60 starts in college. I wasn't a big Nix fan as a prospect but I thought his strengths played well with Payton so that would ease his transition and make him look better than he really is.

With that said, there is an adjustment period that's going to vary from player to player. Caleb looked good in the preseason but once the real games started interior pressure had him hurrying everything. Wobbly passes, rushed and inaccurate passes. I'm fairly confident he'll be fine in the long term but the interior line for the bears is a concern. Center and right guard a turnstile. Not sure how Denver's line is, I haven't watched either week but I don't think playing Wilson or Stidham is going to do anything positive for the Broncos at this point.

[CrimsonFox]

bengals keeping it close at least.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I think the big concern with Nix this early would be he's 24 years old and was supposed to be a high floor guy after more than 60 starts in college. I wasn't a big Nix fan as a prospect but I thought his strengths played well with Payton so that would ease his transition and make him look better than he really is.

With that said, there is an adjustment period that's going to vary from player to player. Caleb looked good in the preseason but once the real games started interior pressure had him hurrying everything. Wobbly passes, rushed and inaccurate passes. I'm fairly confident he'll be fine in the long term but the interior line for the bears is a concern. Center and right guard a turnstile. Not sure how Denver's line is, I haven't watched either week but I don't think playing Wilson or Stidham is going to do anything positive for the Broncos at this point.

All true. This team is not very talented, and no one is in synch. When Nix does something good, someone else breaks down (OL, dropped pass, TO), and vice versa. It's like a baseball team where they lose 12-10 or 3-2.

[CrimsonFox]

I mean he's a rookie QB in a beast league. He needs time.

[Ksyrup]

Sure. But he probably doesn't need to be starting Day 1.

[JPhillips]

Well that sucks. Chiefs are probably going to win now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I mean he's a rookie QB in a beast league. He needs time.

Nix sucks. He literally can't throw the ball more than 10 yards.

[NobodyHere]

Why are the Browns playing again in the Sunday Night game?

[albionmoonlight]

The Bears have one of the most iconic uniforms and all of sports. It never makes sense to me when they decide to go to alternative uniforms and look like a mid-tier MAC team.

[Atocep]

The Bears interior line is so bad it's blowing up just about anything they try to do.

[Solecismic]

I think Caleb Williams is going to do OK in the league. He has the arm. Maybe he'll even reach elite status.

It's going to be hard, though, if the line can't do anything. And that last scramble should have been accompanied with Benny Hill theme music. He's got to get the ball out faster.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

So it is Auburn Bo Nix then.

That's really the only one that's ever existed. Oregon just managed to minimize his many weaknesses, which is tougher to do in the NFL.

[weegeebored]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I think Caleb Williams is going to do OK in the league. He has the arm. Maybe he'll even reach elite status.

It's going to be hard, though, if the line can't do anything. And that last scramble should have been accompanied with Benny Hill theme music. He's got to get the ball out faster.

He's been coddled all his football life, and most times he was the best player on the field. He looks confused and antsy. Welcome to the NFL. I blame Poles. Oduze was a stupid pick when both lines needed help. Same old Bears.

I should add that Shane Waldron doesn't have a clue either.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by weegeebored

He's been coddled all his football life, and most times he was the best player on the field. He looks confused and antsy. Welcome to the NFL. I blame Poles. Oduze was a stupid pick when both lines needed help. Same old Bears.

I should add that Shane Waldron doesn't have a clue either.

Odunze is not looking like a great pick there, and I can't imagine any of the four tackles taken 11-20 wouldn't have been quite welcome.

I don't know how you get to this point as a wide receiver and can't recognize you have outside position on your guy and there's a safety coming over the top and you need to go to the sidelines past the sticks and take what's given on third or fourth down. Credit Williams for not throwing a tantrum and showing him up afterward.

The Bears have pieces of a good team there. I think Williams can be the real deal if he gets good coaching. Part of that is communication, and I didn't see a lot of that today. But he's got a phenomenal arm and a nice delivery.