The NBA 2010 offseason/draft thread

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Im not so sure. The Lakers really dont need any additional scoring. They need Bynums post defense. Bosh may be great on offense but hes certainly not a defensive stopper.

Kobe and Pau are getting up there in age. Kobe is going to start declining sharply over the next few years. They need someone to be the top scoring option in 2-3 years.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Kobe and Pau are getting up there in age. Kobe is going to start declining sharply over the next few years. They need someone to be the top scoring option in 2-3 years.

If Bosh is the top scoring option, the Lakers won't be a championship squad. He's not the answer. If we know it now, guarantee ya the Lakers know it, too.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If Bosh is the top scoring option, the Lakers won't be a championship squad. He's not the answer. If we know it now, guarantee ya the Lakers know it, too.

So what do you propose they do? Sit and pray that another Kobe falls in their lap late in the 1st round or through free agency? Bosh is and will always be a better player than Andrew Bynum. So if you have the ability to make that trade, why not do it? It makes them heavy favorites for the next few years.

[stevew]

I have Kobe playing around 5 more seasons at a high level, and finishing 3rd all time in scoring. I don't think that he will fall that much off skill wise, as his game isn't like a LeBron type based on youth and athleticism. Major concerns are obviously injuries, as he's been hurt a lot lately.

[stevew]

Apparently there was a drop dead provision in Mike Brown's contract, and he was fired before midnight. They would have owed him more money if they waited beyond that date to make a decision.

So, yeah, there is a god.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by stevew

I have Kobe playing around 5 more seasons at a high level, and finishing 3rd all time in scoring. I don't think that he will fall that much off skill wise, as his game isn't like a LeBron type based on youth and athleticism. Major concerns are obviously injuries, as he's been hurt a lot lately.

Yeah, he's really toned down on relying on athleticism over the past couple of years. He's so good in the post that he could just keep posting guys up and spotting up for open 3s for probably 4 or 5 more seasons alone.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So what do you propose they do? Sit and pray that another Kobe falls in their lap late in the 1st round or through free agency? Bosh is and will always be a better player than Andrew Bynum. So if you have the ability to make that trade, why not do it? It makes them heavy favorites for the next few years.

What stevew said. I don't think Kobe falls off as much as predicted. He has already shown an ability to adapt his game, much like Jordan did late in his career (pre-Wizards). And the Lakers always find a way. It's also going to be a bit longer before Gasol really falls off, since a skilled PF like him isn't relying on athleticism as much. He should be good as long as Kobe is. As has been mentioned, the Lakers will need Bynum's low post presence on defense, and Bosh doesn't really provide that.

In fact, it's probably Bynum's defensive potential that will keep him around, because the one area where Kobe and Gasol will probably fall off is defensively. His role as a defender, along with how Artest adapts as a defender while getting older, will be the key to the Lakers in their own end over the next few seasons.

[RainMaker]

He has dropped off. His PER is the lowest it's been since he was 20 years old. He's definitely adjusted his game with great success and is still a top 10 player in the league, but he has seen a decline in his game. The Lakers aren't winning solely because of him, but because they have a top 10 player alongside him in Pau Gasol.

And I can't emphasize minutes enough. He is entering the point in his career minute wise when almost every major NBA superstar sees a substantial decline. If that assumption that he can play 5 more years at this level is correct, it would not just break the mold for every past superstar, it would shatter it. I just don't see that happening when you look at the history of the league.

To put his minutes in perspective too. He has played 10,000 more minutes than Steve Nash. That's the equivelent of 4 NBA seasons. The same amount of minutes as Kevin Garnett. He has more minutes on his body than Jordan did when he retired from the Bulls. The numbers just don't play out in his favor considering virtually every non-Center sees major declines at this point in their career.

The Lakers have maybe one more contending year with this squad. Unless they get younger somewhere and bring in some help, they will fade away.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He has dropped off. His PER is the lowest it's been since he was 20 years old. He's definitely adjusted his game with great success and is still a top 10 player in the league, but he has seen a decline in his game. The Lakers aren't winning solely because of him, but because they have a top 10 player alongside him in Pau Gasol.

And I can't emphasize minutes enough. He is entering the point in his career minute wise when almost every major NBA superstar sees a substantial decline. If that assumption that he can play 5 more years at this level is correct, it would not just break the mold for every past superstar, it would shatter it. I just don't see that happening when you look at the history of the league.

To put his minutes in perspective too. He has played 10,000 more minutes than Steve Nash. That's the equivelent of 4 NBA seasons. The same amount of minutes as Kevin Garnett. He has more minutes on his body than Jordan did when he retired from the Bulls. The numbers just don't play out in his favor considering virtually every non-Center sees major declines at this point in their career.

The Lakers have maybe one more contending year with this squad. Unless they get younger somewhere and bring in some help, they will fade away.

Bosh isn't the answer. I think you want Bosh to go there so the Lakers will suck down the road.

I don't see the Lakers making that move. They'll do something else.

As for Kobe, not saying his performance won't fall, just not as precipitously as you seem to think it will. Also, consider the guy has been racked with lingering and difficult injuries the past two seasons that he has pretty much just stomached the pain and played through. That has had an impact on his performance as well. Health will go a long way to fight against the effects of age, with respect to his performance, certainly in the near term.

[RainMaker]

So you'd rather have Bynum over Bosh? The Andrew Bynum who had 2 points tonight and was embarrased on the defensive end? The 7-footer who has already had multiple major knee problems?

If there is another option for them that is better, than good for them. I just don't see a scenario where they can add a top-10 NBA player in his prime for Andrew Bynum.

[RainMaker]

And if the Lakers don't want him, he's free to join Lebron here in Chicago.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So you'd rather have Bynum over Bosh? The Andrew Bynum who had 2 points tonight and was embarrased on the defensive end? The 7-footer who has already had multiple major knee problems?

If there is another option for them that is better, than good for them. I just don't see a scenario where they can add a top-10 NBA player in his prime for Andrew Bynum.

For fit reasons, yes. Bynum fits in this system. Bosh, not so much. The Lakers already have a player like Bosh who is better than Bosh (Gasol).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

And if the Lakers don't want him, he's free to join Lebron here in Chicago.

You're welcome to him.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, I see the the Bulls as a strong possibility for LeBron. But even if they do sign just him, it will be hard for them to keep Rose on a max contract as well. And if they do, they'll probably lose Noah instead. And if they sign Bosh, it will be a couple years of a great team, followed by both Rose and Noah leaving.

I think the Bulls are better off with just LeBron and keeping Rose.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

BTW, I see the the Bulls as a strong possibility for LeBron. But even if they do sign just him, it will be hard for them to keep Rose on a max contract as well. And if they do, they'll probably lose Noah instead. And if they sign Bosh, it will be a couple years of a great team, followed by both Rose and Noah leaving.

I think the Bulls are better off with just LeBron and keeping Rose.

They'd have bird rights on both Noah and Rose. So it would just be a matter of whether Reinsdorf would be willing to pay the luxury tax to keep them there. The Bulls are the most profitable franchise in the NBA and I don't see how it would be a smart move to let either of their two most popular players go. I could see Noah going if it came to it, but Rose is a local kid and I just can't fathom him leaving.

You also have to remember that by the time they become free agents, two bad contracts in Luol Deng and Kirk Hinrich will be off the books. So even if they do go over, it won't be by much.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

So you'd rather have Bynum over Bosh? The Andrew Bynum who had 2 points tonight and was embarrased on the defensive end? The 7-footer who has already had multiple major knee problems?

If there is another option for them that is better, than good for them. I just don't see a scenario where they can add a top-10 NBA player in his prime for Andrew Bynum.

Do you remember how bad the Lakers struggled late in the season without Bynum? They really need his defense. Bynum would probably score 20+ a game in Toronto as well. Bosh is a fine player but he is more suited to a faster paced team and not so much on the Lakers and their triangle offense.

[Neon_Chaos]

If anything, I'd love to see the Lakers pick up a veteran center off the bench. Watching Mbenga play is like pouring acid into your eyes.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Do you remember how bad the Lakers struggled late in the season without Bynum? They really need his defense. Bynum would probably score 20+ a game in Toronto as well. Bosh is a fine player but he is more suited to a faster paced team and not so much on the Lakers and their triangle offense.

Bosh is actually built perfectly for the triangle offense. I can't believe you guys are arguing that Bynum is better than Bosh. Bosh is one of the best players in the league.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bosh is actually built perfectly for the triangle offense. I can't believe you guys are arguing that Bynum is better than Bosh. Bosh is one of the best players in the league.

How many times has Bosh's teams made the playoffs?

You can use the excuse that he has no talent around him however name another great player whos team never makes the playoffs. Lebron's teams win 60-70 games a year with little talent other then him. Id say Bosh has more talent around him than Dwayne Wade's teams yet the Heat always make the playoffs except the year Wade was hurt when they had the worst record in the league.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Bosh is actually built perfectly for the triangle offense. I can't believe you guys are arguing that Bynum is better than Bosh. Bosh is one of the best players in the league.

And I can't believe you continue to ignore that we're pointing out Bynum's defensive ability and upside and how it relates to the Lakers' defense, or the fact they already have a Spanish version of Bosh on the team.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

How many times has Bosh's teams made the playoffs?

You can use the excuse that he has no talent around him however name another great player whos team never makes the playoffs. Lebron's teams win 60-70 games a year with little talent other then him. Id say Bosh has more talent around him than Dwayne Wade's teams yet the Heat always make the playoffs except the year Wade was hurt when they had the worst record in the league.

Chris Bosh isn't as good as Lebron or Wade. But he's better than Andrew Bynum. Much better.

[jbergey22]

Kevin Garnett played with a bunch of crap that McHale put together every year and that same crappy bunch + KG would make the playoffs in a tougher conference every single year.

What I am saying is. A big star is usually good enough by himself to get a team into the playoffs.

Since Bosh has made 1 playoffs in his entire career I have a hard time labeling him any more than a system player.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Chris Bosh isn't as good as Lebron or Wade. But he's better than Andrew Bynum. Much better.

Bosh is a better scorer. Bynum is a much better defender and a better rebounder plus he is younger. This is not a clear cut as you might think if you are only looking at stats.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And I can't believe you continue to ignore that we're pointing out Bynum's defensive ability and upside and how it relates to the Lakers' defense, or the fact they already have a Spanish version of Bosh on the team.

This is like saying Greg Oden was the better pick in the NBA Draft because he is a better defender than Durant when healthy.

I'm sorry, I don't care how good he is on defense. He's a 22-year old with horrible knees. Chris Bosh is one of the best players in the league.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Kevin Garnett played with a bunch of crap that McHale put together every year and that same crappy bunch + KG would make the playoffs in a tougher conference every single year.

What I am saying is. A big star is usually good enough by himself to get a team into the playoffs.

Since Bosh has made 1 playoffs in his entire career I have a hard time labeling him any more than a system player.

He's made it twice and would have made it this year had he not broken his face at the end of the season.

Garnett is a better player than Bosh. We're talking about whether Chris Bosh is better than Andrew Bynum.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He's made it twice and would have made it this year had he not broken his face at the end of the season.

Garnett is a better player than Bosh. We're talking about whether Chris Bosh is better than Andrew Bynum.

You are the one saying Bosh is one of the best players in the league. Not me. Does your list of greatest in the league go 50 deep or what are you saying?

[Neuqua]

How was Pau Gasol's playoff track record before he was gift wrapped to the Lakers?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You are the one saying Bosh is one of the best players in the league. Not me. Does your list of greatest in the league go 50 deep or what are you saying?

He was 5th in the league in PER. Better than anyone on the Lakers. 25 points and 12 rebounds a night. You don't think he's a top 10 or 15 player in this league?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

This is like saying Greg Oden was the better pick in the NBA Draft because he is a better defender than Durant when healthy.

I'm sorry, I don't care how good he is on defense. He's a 22-year old with horrible knees. Chris Bosh is one of the best players in the league.

Its not like saying that at all.

And if you dont care about defense then Id hate to have you as my GM. You'd be similiar to Don Nelson or the Knicks flavor of the week.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

How was Pau Gasol's playoff track record before he was gift wrapped to the Lakers?

Bingo. You get it.

Gasol and Bosh are similiar the players. Why would the Lakers want another one?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He was 5th in the league in PER. Better than anyone on the Lakers. 25 points and 12 rebounds a night. You don't think he's a top 10 or 15 player in this league?

I havent thought about where Id put him to be honest. If my focus was winning championships I would not want Bosh. If my focus was scoring points and putting fans in the seats I would want Bosh.

[RainMaker]

I do care about defense. But I don't pick it over one of the most dynamic scorers in the league. I'm not clamoring for the Bulls to bench Derrick Rose because he sucks on defense.

If his was 1999, I might agree with you. But the league has changed dramatically. It's guard and swingman driven. There just aren't a lot of big time post players anymore. You need guys who can defend on the perimeter. The team is much better off getting Bosh and suring up their defense at the PG position.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I do care about defense. But I don't pick it over one of the most dynamic scorers in the league. I'm not clamoring for the Bulls to bench Derrick Rose because he sucks on defense.

If his was 1999, I might agree with you. But the league has changed dramatically. It's guard and swingman driven. There just aren't a lot of big time post players anymore. You need guys who can defend on the perimeter. The team is much better off getting Bosh and suring up their defense at the PG position.

This may be the secret to winning games in todays NBA but you will still notice that the teams winning championships have this 7 foot shot blocker in the lane

Lakers Bynum
Celtics Garnett, Perkins
Spurs Duncan
Heat Shaq
Spurs Duncan
Pistons Wallace

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I do care about defense. But I don't pick it over one of the most dynamic scorers in the league. I'm not clamoring for the Bulls to bench Derrick Rose because he sucks on defense.

If his was 1999, I might agree with you. But the league has changed dramatically. It's guard and swingman driven. There just aren't a lot of big time post players anymore. You need guys who can defend on the perimeter. The team is much better off getting Bosh and suring up their defense at the PG position.

How does Bosh improve their perimeter defense?

[stevew]

My prediction is that wherever LeBron does sign, that it's mid July and we'll all be fatigued by that point. He will slow down free agency for a number of teams/players.

[Chief Rum]

How many teams have coaching openings now? Just curious...

Philly (filled)
Atlanta
Cleveland
Chicago
NJ
LAC
New Orleans

Am I missing any?

Dan Patrick opined on his show this morning about the likelihood that teams in the LeBron "sweepstakes" (above, that would be CLE, CHI, NJ & LAC) would basically let LeBron pick the coach, which means those teams won't have coaching hires before July (unless they're convinced they won't get LeBron, of course). Patrick said those teams could be up shit creek because all of the "pro coaches" would be gone.

Pro coaches he mentioned were the likes of Avery Johnson, Mark Jackson, Jeff Van Gundy, Byron Scott and presumeably the just fired coaches and the top assistants out there. I think he's dead wrong. There are only two franchises that aren't waiting for LeBron on the list above, and two pro options off the market aren't going to deplete the available options out there. He made it out to be like these teams would be in serious trouble and stuck trying to woo Coach Cal or Coach K from the college ranks if they wait until July, but I don't think he's thought this one through.

[RedKingGold]

I feel like people have been talking/gushing about Bynum's potential for years. At some point, shouldn't he be fulfilling that potential?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I feel like people have been talking/gushing about Bynum's potential for years. At some point, shouldn't he be fulfilling that potential?

He is playing with Kobe Bryant and Pau Gasol so its not exactly easy for him to get his shots up. He is a career 57 percent shooter.

I believe he has shown a lot of improvement but he gets these injuries that slow him down. Give him a healthy season on the Raps and you could see how good he is.

He still is 22 years old. The learning curve for big guys is usually much longer than it is for guards.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I feel like people have been talking/gushing about Bynum's potential for years. At some point, shouldn't he be fulfilling that potential?

Actually, when healthy and not phased out of the game by foul injuries or his teammates not running plays for him, Bynum has been very good in recent years, putting up some 20 pt/20 board types of games. The problem hasn't been development so much as health and consistency. He's shown enough that people can still see the kind of talent he has when he's focused and healthy and working within the system with the rest of the team.

And remember he's only 22 or 23 or something like that.

[DaddyTorgo]

I agree that Bynum is overrated. Or maybe not overrated, but certainly I don't think he'll ever reach his potential for a sustained period of time. Too many injuries already. Too inconsistent.

I think if he wasn't on a "marquee" team he'd be forgotten by now.

[RainMaker]

You guys keep overlooking one extremely important factor. Andrew Bynum is 22 years old and has absolutely horrible knees. When your knees go, they go. You can't get them back.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

You guys keep overlooking one extremely important factor. Andrew Bynum is 22 years old and has absolutely horrible knees. When your knees go, they go. You can't get them back.

Exactly.

To me...Bynum=Oden.

[Neon_Chaos]

We should get Dwight Howard on the Lakers. That should solve everything.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Exactly.

To me...Bynum=Oden.

Other then Bynum has played in 2 and a half as many games and has actually showed he can play, yes, I agree

[jeff061]

Calvin Murphy: LeBron James' Mother 'Absolutely' Had Sex With Delonte West

lol, I can't believe this thing is still churning.

[miami_fan]

Has there been a move that hurt both parties more the way Turkoglu's move to Toronto has hurt Turkoglu himself and the Orlando Magic? Put Turkoglu back on the Magic instead of Vince Carter and the Eastern Conference Finals is still going on IMO.

Hedo Turkoglu: 'I do not want to go back to Toronto' - ESPN

ESPN.com news services

Hedo Turkoglu told a Turkish television station he wants out of Toronto.

Turkoglu was close to signing with the Portland Trail Blazers last summer but reneged on a contract offer in favor of the Toronto Raptors. He struggled, averaging 11.3 points, his lowest total since the 2003-04 season.

"When the circumstances turned against me, I lost my enthusiasm for this city," Turkoglu said in the interview. "My lawyers have talked to the front office recently. Honestly, I do not want to go back to Toronto. My lawyers talked to Mr. [Bryan] Colangelo and I hope that they will come up with a solution soon."

Turkoglu was a healthy scratch for the Raptors in late March. The decision to bench him came in the wake of reports he was out on the town immediately after missing a game due to a stomach virus. He was fined by the team.

"During this process I talked to [Raptors coach] Jay Triano several times," Turkoglu said in the interview. "I promised him that whether he starts me or not, I will do my best on the court. However, if I had a more temperamental personality, I would have left the team. Yet, I did exactly the opposite. I did my best. I told him that I have no problems with him. I am not a young player, so it's not a big deal for me to come off the bench."

Turkoglu, who signed a five-year deal with the Raptors last offseason, is owed $43.8 million over the next four years.

ESPN senior NBA writer Henry Abbott contributed to this report.

[Ironhead]

BALL!

[Neon_Chaos]

Cleveland Cavaliers GM Danny Ferry resigns - ESPN

So, the coach is gone, and the GM "resigned". Are the Cavs really going to give the reigns of this team to LeBron by letting him pick his coach and GM?

[stevew]

No, ferry doesn't want to be around for a rebuilding process.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Cleveland Cavaliers GM Danny Ferry resigns - ESPN

So, the coach is gone, and the GM "resigned". Are the Cavs really going to give the reigns of this team to LeBron by letting him pick his coach and GM?

Yup. For Cleveland's sake, I hope that he stays there.