Officer delays family racing to see dying mom

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

As he's already clarified, he's suggesting he not run the red light in the first place, avoiding the traffic stop.

And he's got a point, difficult situation or not. I don't believe there's a mother-in-law dying exception in the lawbook. The question is whether the officer should have used his discretion to deal with this differently.

I'd actually forgot about this story from a couple years ago...

My father in law had surgery for mesothelioma (8+ hours of surgery we were at the hospital the whole day). After he got out the doctor said things were looking good. WE went and visited him the next day and he was awake, things were improving. Then we get a call at 2 AM that he's crashed and is in CCU/ICU in a coma. We rushed to the hospital, going the speed I normally travel down the freeway (UCLA Medical is about 40 miles from Orange County). I stopped at a number of lights, even the ones closest to the hospital, because regardless of the situation at hand, it's my responsibility to not put others in risk. So when I'm speaking about the driver being in the wrong, I do speak from experience in my own life.

Once again, as I've stated each time, the officer should have handled the situation differently once he was approached by the nurse, but it was the drivers own fault for the series of events that occurred, period. Much of the blame goes on him for how he handled the emergency situation.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

YouTube - Chicago Cop Beats Bartender - abc news

They also have a pretty good history of beating the shit out of women, drunk driving and killing people (then covering it up despite video tape evidence), and torturing suspects.

YouTube - Chicago Police beat woman

Tough to give them the benefit of the doubt when so much mounting evidence keeps showing up with them abusing their powers.

I can agree with most of what you've posted in this thread, but to be fair when cops don't abuse their power it doesn't make the news or youtube. I'm sure there are far more instances of cops doing the right thing than doing the wrong thing. Keeping the "mounting evidence" in perspective, I'd say that cops do what's right most of the time.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I can agree with most of what you've posted in this thread, but to be fair when cops don't abuse their power it doesn't make the news or youtube. I'm sure there are far more instances of cops doing the right thing than doing the wrong thing. Keeping the "mounting evidence" in perspective, I'd say that cops do what's right most of the time.

I think that depends on location.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I can agree with most of what you've posted in this thread, but to be fair when cops don't abuse their power it doesn't make the news or youtube. I'm sure there are far more instances of cops doing the right thing than doing the wrong thing. Keeping the "mounting evidence" in perspective, I'd say that cops do what's right most of the time.

And Chicago police, like Chicago politics, is off in it's own corrupt world and doesn't at all say anything about police (or even politics) outside Illinois.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Noop

I think that depends on location.

True, but I was speaking generally not necessarily in Chicago, Dallas, Smalltown USA, etc.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

True, but I was speaking generally not necessarily in Chicago, Dallas, Smalltown USA, etc.

Just because I want to know but where does it not happen? If not a big city or in a small town?

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

I'd actually forgot about this story from a couple years ago...

My father in law had surgery for mesothelioma (8+ hours of surgery we were at the hospital the whole day). After he got out the doctor said things were looking good. WE went and visited him the next day and he was awake, things were improving. Then we get a call at 2 AM that he's crashed and is in CCU/ICU in a coma. We rushed to the hospital, going the speed I normally travel down the freeway (UCLA Medical is about 40 miles from Orange County). I stopped at a number of lights, even the ones closest to the hospital, because regardless of the situation at hand, it's my responsibility to not put others in risk. So when I'm speaking about the driver being in the wrong, I do speak from experience in my own life.

Once again, as I've stated each time, the officer should have handled the situation differently once he was approached by the nurse, but it was the drivers own fault for the series of events that occurred, period. Much of the blame goes on him for how he handled the emergency situation.

Were you told his death was imminent? If not, then it's not close to the same thing. Dire medical situation, yes.

Also, either you or I misunderstand what traffic lights are for. I have run traffic lights in emergency situations late at night when I have ensured that passage through the intersection is safe. I would do it again in the same situation without hesitation. At no time during these two incidents do I feel I ever put anyone at risk, either the other occupants of my vehicle or anyone else on the road.

[TCY Junkie]

I thought a cop had a small racing group that was family based and postponed it to go see his dying mom. None of that interested me at all, so I didn't open this thread until last night after my brother told me about it. Could we in the future be more careful about thread titles for people that are positive minded. Thanks

[Huckleberry]

Oh, and for the record, Dallas Police Chief David Kunkle strongly disagrees with those of you defending the officer. And not in the standard "I guess I have to fire this guy because of the public outrage and media coverage" language, either.

Dallas - Unfair Park - DPD Chief David Kunkle Expresses His Embarrassment Over Ryan Moats Incident

At times throughout the 20-minute conference, Kunkle seemed to struggle to eloquently express his feelings; he often bowed his head to read from prepared notes. "It's hard to find the right words and still be professional as a police chief," he said.

Kunkle lauded Moats, who did not make it to the hospital room to see his mother-in-law before she died, and his wife for their "extraordinary patience and restraint," as is apparent on the raw video provided by the DPD and available after the jump. Kunkle pointed out that Moats never identified himself as an NFL player or expected special treatment.



The incident was not reported to the chief until almost a week after the incident; the reason for the delay is also being investigated.

Kunkle said it was his understanding that the officer drew his gun. But, he said, since that's not on the video, he can't confirm such reports.

Kunkle stated that while state law gives police officers tremendous discretion in making arrests, officers are also taught to use "common sense." Kunkle said he was most bothered that the officer was "berating" Moats with threats of arrest.

Said the chief, "We don't want arrests to occur because someone made a police officer mad."

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont...D975T9G82.html

Kunkle said the department is "embarrassed and disappointed."

Caught on tape: Cop stops NFL player from seeing his dying mother-in-law in Dallas - 3/27/09 - Los Angeles-Southern California-LA Breaking News, Weather, Traffic, Sports - abc7.com

"When we at the command staff reviewed the tape, we were embarrassed, disappointed," Kunkle said. "It's hard to find the right word and still be professional in my role as the police chief. But the behavior was not appropriate."

Police Chiefs don't use language like this when they're just putting out the flames. Kunkle is pissed, and he has more information on what happened than any of us.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Police Chiefs don't use language like this when they're just putting out the flames. Kunkle is pissed, and he has more information on what happened than any of us.

His #1 priority is how this impacts police interactions going forward. This stuff being blown out of proporition gives motorists a confidence and a sense of defiance when pulled over, which can lead to difficult and dangerous situations. When people feel a moral superiority over police officers in general (it doesn't take much, it's already been expressed in this thread), it emboldens them to act like punks during police interactions, because they feel any negative result must be 100% someone else's fault.

And notice the police chief seems most upset about the officer's tones and threats, which is something nobody can defend.

And police chiefs do use language like this all the time - they will almost never publicly defend an officer who has been involved in any controversial incident. That's just stupid, and dangerous. One of the most disgusting organized things I've ever seen from police is in Chicago, when they surrounded, in a show of solidarity, that officer who beat up the bartender at his court hearing. More typically, the officer who made a bad judgment is seperated until everything is resolved.

Every profession has both bad apples, and good people that make mistakes. The opportunities for mistakes in a police uniform are extraordinary. They don't get paid enough to be form a navy seal unit that acts without emotion and exhibits only perfect profesionalism.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Noop

Just because I want to know but where does it not happen? If not a big city or in a small town?

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Were you told his death was imminent? If not, then it's not close to the same thing. Dire medical situation, yes.

Also, either you or I misunderstand what traffic lights are for. I have run traffic lights in emergency situations late at night when I have ensured that passage through the intersection is safe. I would do it again in the same situation without hesitation. At no time during these two incidents do I feel I ever put anyone at risk, either the other occupants of my vehicle or anyone else on the road.

Yes actually he was on his deathbed, he died three days later when we decided to pull the plug.

Traffic lights are to control traffic, red light is stop, green is go. If a cop sees you run a light you should be ticketed, you are breaking the law.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by molson

When people feel a moral superiority over police officers in general (it doesn't take much, it's already been expressed in this thread), it emboldens them to act like punks during police interactions, because they feel any negative result must be 100% someone else's fault.

Yup. Moates and his passengers were shits to this cop early on, but that's excused because he was a shit back.

I'm fine with the cop taking some discipline for how he handled the end of this, but I really want to see Moates take some responsibility for telling the cop to go find his insurance himself (for example), or the woman for yelling and waving her fist at him.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Everyone always uses the bad apples to castigate the entire group. Cops, priests and religious people, Boston sports fans. I guess it's human nature in that way. I have a deep respect for policemen while at the same time realize that some are in it for the wrong reasons.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I have no idea what you're trying to say here.

Where exactly is this place where there aren't a lot of complaints about the police?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Everyone always uses the bad apples to castigate the entire group. Cops, priests and religious people, Boston sports fans. I guess it's human nature in that way. I have a deep respect for policemen while at the same time realize that some are in it for the wrong reasons.

There is a history with them that goes way back.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Noop

Where exactly is this place where there aren't a lot of complaints about the police?

Where exactly is the place where there aren't a lot of complaints about ANYTHING. People always complain and rarely compliment. It's somehow part of human nature.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Yes actually he was on his deathbed, he died three days later when we decided to pull the plug.

That's not close to "she's going to die in the next 30 minutes."

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Traffic lights are to control traffic.

So what about when there is no traffic (other than the car you're driving)?

[Noop]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Where exactly is the place where there aren't a lot of complaints about ANYTHING. People always complain and rarely compliment. It's somehow part of human nature.

Well compared to a place like Oakland some small town doesn't have near the amount of complaints about police brutality, abuse of power, etc. I asked where are these places where people complain about their police for something other then the things I mentioned.

Even in Aventura (a rich city in Miami) you hear stories of people getting their asses kicked by police.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Noop

Where exactly is this place where there aren't a lot of complaints about the police?

I never said there was a place where there weren't a lot of complaints about the police. My point was that when cops are doing their job they aren't recognized; therefore, to say that there is a trend of abuse of power amongst the police based upon news snippets isn't necessarily true.

Take for example healthcare. Stories about docs doing their jobs don't make the papers. When they screw up, those stories make the papers.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yup. Moates and his passengers were shits to this cop early on, but that's excused because he was a shit back.

If we were to go with your "shits" premise (I don't), then I'd argue it's excused because they were a grieving family whose relative was minutes from dying.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I never said there was a place where there weren't a lot of complaints about the police. My point was that when cops are doing their job they aren't recognized; therefore, to say that there is a trend of abuse of power amongst the police based upon news snippets isn't necessarily true.

Take for example healthcare. Stories about docs doing their jobs don't make the papers. When they screw up, those stories make the papers.

If your doing what you're suppose to do it isn't news... as much as I hate it bad news is very profitable.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by molson

His #1 priority is how this impacts police interactions going forward. This stuff being blown out of proporition gives motorists a confidence and a sense of defiance when pulled over, which can lead to difficult and dangerous situations. When people feel a moral superiority over police officers in general (it doesn't take much, it's already been expressed in this thread), it emboldens them to act like punks during police interactions, because they feel any negative result must be 100% someone else's fault.

I don't feel a moral superiority over police officers. An important note, though, is that I also don't feel that police officers have a moral superiority over me. Do you disagree?

Originally Posted by molson

And notice the police chief seems most upset about the officer's tones and threats, which is something nobody can defend.

Elsewhere Kunkle explicitly stated that Powell's only concern, after being informed that the story of the dying relative was true, should have been helping them get to the relative as quickly as possible in any way he could. Which is true. He's not only pissed because he was an asshole, he's also pointed out what an officer should do in this situation.

Originally Posted by molson

And police chiefs do use language like this all the time - they will almost never publicly defend an officer who has been involved in any controversial incident. That's just stupid, and dangerous. One of the most disgusting organized things I've ever seen from police is in Chicago, when they surrounded, in a show of solidarity, that officer who beat up the bartender at his court hearing. More typically, the officer who made a bad judgment is seperated until everything is resolved.

No. They don't use language like this all the time. I agree that they do publicly reprimand the officer in most situations, but not in these terms, not with this emotion.

Originally Posted by molson

Every profession has both bad apples, and good people that make mistakes. The opportunities for mistakes in a police uniform are extraordinary. They don't get paid enough to be form a navy seal unit that acts without emotion and exhibits only perfect profesionalism.

Yes, which is why people that can't handle it should be removed from the force. There's a large gap between perfect professionalism and the way this officer handled this situation. I've also read this guy's blog, which is now removed from xanga.com, and he's an asshat. Great power, great responsibility and all that jazz. A police officer should serve and protect, and in this situation the officer was doing neither for anyone. As Kunkle said, officers have discretion on whether or not to issue tickets, etc.

Should a person that jaywalks to escape a building that's on fire be ticketed? By the letter of the law it's a violation that should be ticketed. Fortunately we have the ability to reason.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

That's not close to "she's going to die in the next 30 minutes."

Again, their actions were reasonable and understandable, but also completely counterproductive to their goal. You really don't save that much time driving like a maniac in city streets.

If you run a red light, you're saving somewhere between 0 and 60 seconds, at the risk of losing 15+ minutes via traffic stop, and causing an accident (and if you run multiple lights and speed, your odds of geting stopped, or causing an accident go up). If you're under stress then maybe you're not capable of making that calcuation, and that's fine, but it's not anybody else's fault when your silly risk doesn't pay off.

If you want to put an officer in the position of trying to figure out whether you're the first person in months to tell him the truth about an excuse for breaking the law, that's your gamble.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

If we were to go with your "shits" premise (I don't)

Sigh. This is where the fundamental issue in this thread is: some people think it's okay to jump out of your car when a cop pulls you over, yell at him and wave your first, ignore orders to get back in the car, tell him to go get your insurance himself, drive for a full minute after he turns his lights and sirens on, etc etc etc. And the cop has to take it quietly.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Sigh. This is where the fundamental issue in this thread is: some people think it's okay to jump out of your car when a cop pulls you over, yell at him and wave your first, ignore orders to get back in the car, tell him to go get your insurance himself, drive for a full minute after he turns his lights and sirens on, etc etc etc. And the cop has to take it quietly.

Who suggested this in this thread?

[gstelmack]

I also think that an illuminating piece of data might be to watch dashcam video from the rest of this officer's day, or a day or two before. Would be interesting to see how this guy treats people he pulls over typically, how many folks try to pull one over on him, and the like. Would be illuminating to both sides likely.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

That's not close to "she's going to die in the next 30 minutes."



So what about when there is no traffic (other than the car you're driving)?

It's the same type of situation. If you've ever experienced an emergency with a family member at the hospital there is very limited information provided most the time. All I knew was that he was in a coma or brain dead. Dying, going to die, brain dead, all the same thing and completed close and related to each other.

As for traffic, if I'm in a car, I'm traffic. There are no laws that let you run red lights because you look both ways, or because of emergencies. If there are let me know so I can cite them when I feel like it.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by molson

Again, their actions were reasonable and understandable, but also completely counterproductive to their goal. You really don't save that much time driving like a maniac in city streets.

If you run a red light, you're saving somewhere between 0 and 60 seconds, at the risk of losing 15+ minutes via traffic stop, and causing an accident (and if you run multiple lights and speed, your odds of geting stopped, or causing an accident go up). If you're under stress then maybe you're not capable of making that calcuation, and that's fine, but it's not anybody else's fault when your silly risk doesn't pay off.

Your inputs are defective because most officers would not detain you for 15+ minutes. This particular guy got unlucky with the officer he drew.

The funny thing about all this, and probably part of why I'm so adamant about it, is that in one of the two situations I describe above where I violated traffic laws and ran traffic lights late at night was in Austin, Texas when my wife went into labor with our firstborn. The moment her labor started her contractions were two minutes apart and her water broke shortly thereafter. We called our midwife (who delivered at the hospital then) and she said we needed to get to the hospital as soon as possible. Risk of infection, incredibly short labor, etc.

I got tailed by a cop for running the light at 38th street and Lamar in Austin. This light is maybe 2 blocks from the hospital. The cop turned onto 38th street to follow me. Never turned on his lights. As soon as I entered the emergency room portion of the parking lot, he stopped his car, watched me get my wife out, then pulled away.

That is how not to be an asshole police officer. It was 2:30 in the morning, nobody else was on the roads (well, I passed a motorcyclist before that) and I wasn't endangering anyone. I was responding prudently to an emergency situation. Just like Moats was.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Yup. Moates and his passengers were shits to this cop early on, but that's excused because he was a shit back.

I'm fine with the cop taking some discipline for how he handled the end of this, but I really want to see Moates take some responsibility for telling the cop to go find his insurance himself (for example), or the woman for yelling and waving her fist at him.

I have a feeling no one will change their mind, but honestly I felt as if they were pretty cool considering the circumstances.

To take a slightly different take from the longish car chase, I would give the cop benefit of the doubt if the chase had been short and ended at the hospital. He wouldn't have had time to think about why they weren't stopping and where they stopped. But because the chase was pretty long, he had time to think about it.

On the flipside, they probably should've stopped and I've seen instances where the cop would run ahead of the family with his lights on to clear traffic so they can get there faster.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Who suggested this in this thread?

Well, the post I quoted argued that their actions were not only excused, but that he disagreed that they were being "shits" (my word) to the officer while doing all of this. And all of those actions I listed were in the tape.

I just don't think it's reasonable to expect the cop to immediately flip a switch after the way he spends the first 3 minutes of that tape. Certainly by the time we're hitting the 12 or 13 minute mark he's in full denial mode, and deserves to be held to task for not listening to the nurse and other officer, but folks expecting him to just go "well then, okay, my mistake, see you later" at the 3:15 mark or so are delusional.

It was mentioned elsewhere, I'll mention it again: if you didn't have the rest of this story, and all you had were the first 3 minutes of that tape, what would your reaction be?

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

As for traffic, if I'm in a car, I'm traffic. There are no laws that let you run red lights because you look both ways, or because of emergencies. If there are let me know so I can cite them when I feel like it.

The exception is called discretion, reason, and common sense. Police officers are expected and authorized to exercise these abilities. I've known that since before Chief Kunkle came out and said as much with respect to this situation. So, for example, are district attorneys. The laws exist as a baseline. There are always exceptions. It's one of the basic reasons we are entitled to a jury by our peers. (edit - not the main reason, I realized this could be misintepreted)

Yes, in the vast majority of cases, the law should be followed and is a good rule. But there are times when breaking laws is acceptable. And emergency situations in which the act of breaking the law does not infringe on anyone else's rights or safety are the perfect example.

[stevew]

This is devolving into one of the 5 dumbest threads in FOFC history.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

It was mentioned elsewhere, I'll mention it again: if you didn't have the rest of this story, and all you had were the first 3 minutes of that tape, what would your reaction be?

I don't think the cop did anything wrong at the beginning.. over time he morphed into an asshole though.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Well, the post I quoted argued that their actions were not only excused, but that he disagreed that they were being "shits" (my word) to the officer while doing all of this. And all of those actions I listed were in the tape.

I just don't think it's reasonable to expect the cop to immediately flip a switch after the way he spends the first 3 minutes of that tape. Certainly by the time we're hitting the 12 or 13 minute mark he's in full denial mode, and deserves to be held to task for not listening to the nurse and other officer, but folks expecting him to just go "well then, okay, my mistake, see you later" at the 3:15 mark or so are delusional.

It was mentioned elsewhere, I'll mention it again: if you didn't have the rest of this story, and all you had were the first 3 minutes of that tape, what would your reaction be?

My reaction is this: Who gives a shit about the first 3 minutes of the tape?

The cop acted like a douche for 20 minutes or so. If he had responded appropriately before that (like the critical moment where the hospital nurse and OTHER POLICE OFFICER vouch for the story) then there wouldn't be as much of a firestorm.

[molson]

Originally Posted by stevew

This is devolving into one of the 5 dumbest threads in FOFC history.

I always love when the thread police make an appearance.

[stevew]

lemme see your insurance

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

To take a slightly different take from the longish car chase, I would give the cop benefit of the doubt if the chase had been short and ended at the hospital. He wouldn't have had time to think about why they weren't stopping and where they stopped. But because the chase was pretty long, he had time to think about it.

And as the chase gets longer, what he's thinking is "what are they running from and trying to get away from me?", not "what legitimate reason would they have for ignoring my signal?", given that probably 99.5% of the reasons people don't pull over are not legitimate. And the longer the car runs, the more likely the guy is to pull a gun when they finally do corner him.

Moates just happened to be in that .5% (my made up statistic, but I think I'm in the ballpark).

[stevew]

dola-

I will not let you go to lunch until you provide it.

[molson]

Originally Posted by stevew

lemme see your insurance

Go find it yourself.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

And as the chase gets longer, what he's thinking is "what are they running from and trying to get away from me?", not "what legitimate reason would they have for ignoring my signal?", given that probably 99.5% of the reasons people don't pull over are not legitimate. And the longer the car runs, the more likely the guy is to pull a gun when they finally do corner him.

Moates just happened to be in that .5% (my made up statistic, but I think I'm in the ballpark).

Criminals usually have their hazards on to alert everyone to their presence.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Your inputs are defective because most officers would not detain you for 15+ minutes. This particular guy got unlucky with the officer he drew.

The funny thing about all this, and probably part of why I'm so adamant about it, is that in one of the two situations I describe above where I violated traffic laws and ran traffic lights late at night was in Austin, Texas when my wife went into labor with our firstborn. The moment her labor started her contractions were two minutes apart and her water broke shortly thereafter. We called our midwife (who delivered at the hospital then) and she said we needed to get to the hospital as soon as possible. Risk of infection, incredibly short labor, etc.

I got tailed by a cop for running the light at 38th street and Lamar in Austin. This light is maybe 2 blocks from the hospital. The cop turned onto 38th street to follow me. Never turned on his lights. As soon as I entered the emergency room portion of the parking lot, he stopped his car, watched me get my wife out, then pulled away.

That is how not to be an asshole police officer. It was 2:30 in the morning, nobody else was on the roads (well, I passed a motorcyclist before that) and I wasn't endangering anyone. I was responding prudently to an emergency situation. Just like Moats was.

I'm glad it worked out for you, but you defintitely took a risk with your wife's health. Probably a better risk than Moates did, since you were only 2 blocks from the hospital, as opposed to 1+ mile, and you had an actual medical emergency, and not just an emotional emergency.

If you make major decisions based on an assumption that everyone else will act perfectly and the way you expect them to, you're going to get burned.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by molson

I'm glad it worked out for you, but you defintitely took a risk with your wife's health.

Try pulling out a 'I'm driving the speed limit and have to obey all rules of the road" line to a wife that is in contractions next to you in the car.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

My reaction is this: Who gives a shit about the first 3 minutes of the tape?

Because it sets the stage for the rest? Am I overreacting? Possibly, I'm just sick of these police brutality stories that act like the victim did nothing wrong, then watching the victim act like a jerk to the cop, or in some cases try to assault the cop, and everyone excuses it, usually because the early reports skip the setup. Assuming the setup is ever mentioned at all.

I mean, the first story has quotes from both sides, and conveniently skips over Moates' "go find my insurance yourself" bit to help goad everyone into attacking the officer. There's a whole side to this story that the folks attacking the cop want to just blindly skip over. It takes two to tango in most cases. And folks are actually presenting excuses for Moates behavior and claiming he was fine in what he did because of the circumstances. I disagree.

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

The cop acted like a douche for 20 minutes or so. If he had responded appropriately before that (like the critical moment where the hospital nurse and OTHER POLICE OFFICER vouch for the story) then there wouldn't be as much of a firestorm.

Agreed. I just don't think Moates and the woman should be getting off scot-free for antagonizing him in the first place.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Yes, in the vast majority of cases, the law should be followed and is a good rule. But there are times when breaking laws is acceptable. And emergency situations in which the act of breaking the law does not infringe on anyone else's rights or safety are the perfect example.

I agree with you in spirit, and hope an officer would be understanding in a situation such as this. I don't feel it's acceptable to break laws, I do think depending on the circumstances they can be forgiven, but it's still not acceptable. If that makes any sense.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Try pulling out a 'I'm driving the speed limit and have to obey all rules of the road" line to a wife that is in contractions next to you in the car.

I don't know how many times I can possibly say that such actions would be understandable and reasonable, and someone shouldn't get locked up for such behavior.

Maybe you should do some practice drives or something beforehand, because understandable or not, speeding and running red lights with your pregnant wife in the car ain't a great idea.

[DanGarion]

For those of you that have had wives that were having contractions, etc and took the rules of the road into your own hands (yes I'm being dramatic but that's what you did). Why did you choose to drive, instead of calling 911 and having an ambulance take her or the person in?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

For those of you that have had wives that were having contractions, etc and took the rules of the road into your own hands (yes I'm being dramatic but that's what you did). Why did you choose to drive, instead of calling 911 and having an ambulance take her or the person in?

I guess it depends on where you live. If you live in Atlanta, you might as well register the kid for little league while waiting for the ambulance.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I have a question that has nothing to do with Ryan Moats' situation, so it would not be productive to ask me how my question relates to it. It doesn't.

Picture yourself driving alone on city streets at 2am. You notice a car behind you, and it follows all of your turns for 10 minutes. You can't see how many people are in the car. You haven't encountered any stop signs or red traffic lights, so you've had no reason to stop. You get suspicious and try to turn onto a side road to see if it's just coincidence or if you are really being followed. The car turns along with you. You try weaving down different side streets and the car continues to match your every move. Trying to play it safe, you decide to drive to the nearest police station. You're eight blocks away from the police station, and the car is still on your tail. You reach a red light.

Do you stop?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Actually, since my question had nothing to do with Ryan Moats, I should have started a new thread, but please forgive me since I'm new to this board.