Hello again ol' friend: Simcity 5 introduced

[Blackadar]

The good news keeps pouring in. This is like watching a train wreck.

According to EA, if you don't like it you can get a refund.
SimCity launch hobbled by server strain; EA offering refunds | PCGamesN

Except good luck getting it since customer service won't comply

Someone else couldn't even get that far:

Just for information's sake, I went to see how to go about getting this refund. You can try and chat with a live person or just send an email. I went with the chat and are immediately put in a hold time (surprise!). It started at 120 minutes so I left it on while I did other things. It got down to 35 minutes and then jumped right back up to 180 minutes. Still left it on, got down to around 40 minutes or so, jumped right back to 180 minutes. I think they have no intention of actually giving refunds, they just make it so painful to wait that you eventually just give up.

[spleen1015]

It sounds like the best thing to do with it is to wait for a sale. That way you get it on the cheap and you start playing when the initial rush is over. No dealing with server strain and all of the kinks are worked out.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

It sounds like the best thing to do with it is to wait for a sale. That way you get it on the cheap and you start playing when the initial rush is over. No dealing with server strain and all of the kinks are worked out.

Probably...except you cut down on the total amount of time you'll have to play the game since EA won't leave the servers up forever. So yeah, I'm still following the game since I love city-builders. But if it goes on sale for $35 with some DLC a year from now I'll be very tempted, but then I have to ask myself if they'll keep the servers open for another year. The answer is most likely, but EA has been known to shut down servers very quickly.

[Sweed]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This ^^


Does steam have a simcity4 package with all updates add-ons etc etc?

Yeah, and if your patient it is usually onsale during their big specials for $4.99.
Pretty sure I'm going to pick it up during the spring sale.

[SirBlurton]

For those that are willing to take a chance on Kickstarter games, there's one called Civitas that appears to be setting itself up as the protest game of choice for people mad at SC5's DRM and social gaming hand-cuffing.

Looks like a smaller studio, so buyer beware as always.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by SirBlurton

For those that are willing to take a chance on Kickstarter games, there's one called Civitas that appears to be setting itself up as the protest game of choice for people mad at SC5's DRM and social gaming hand-cuffing.

Looks like a smaller studio, so buyer beware as always.

Yep, I posted that in the kickstarter thread yesterday. But without even so much as a video, this project can't be considered anything but vaporware. Once they get a vid or two up, then we can evaluate their progress. As much as I'd like this to be real, the timing of it and the lack of any concrete evidence that it exists makes my BS detector start blinking red.

[Blackadar]

Spoiler

It isn't true

[nilodor]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Probably...except you cut down on the total amount of time you'll have to play the game since EA won't leave the servers up forever. So yeah, I'm still following the game since I love city-builders. But if it goes on sale for $35 with some DLC a year from now I'll be very tempted, but then I have to ask myself if they'll keep the servers open for another year. The answer is most likely, but EA has been known to shut down servers very quickly.

This is the killer to me. I'd love to say, well I'll wait 6-12 months until they get all the early problem sorted the game works as envisioned. But I'm super worried that they'll be like alright we're shutting in down in another 6 months. There are plenty of the building games that I still pick up and play several years after their release date. Which I think is the point of these empire building strategy games, if they're done well, they'll last for a few years until the interface becomes so dated that it's unusable.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by nilodor

This is the killer to me. I'd love to say, well I'll wait 6-12 months until they get all the early problem sorted the game works as envisioned. But I'm super worried that they'll be like alright we're shutting in down in another 6 months. There are plenty of the building games that I still pick up and play several years after their release date. Which I think is the point of these empire building strategy games, if they're done well, they'll last for a few years until the interface becomes so dated that it's unusable.

In the interest of complete honesty I don't think this will happen unless SC flops (which it won't). I think the servers will be up for at least 5 years unless you hear of plans for EA to release SC 2014 and turn it into a yearly release cycle. I think what's far more likely is for them to milk the hell out of the customer base with overpriced DLC transactions that fix major, glaring flaws in the game. I think Simcity may become a major cash cow for EA because people are are already clamboring for subways, bigger city tiles, ways to control abandoned cities, different road options to control traffic, more compact airports, different options for police and crime control, etc.

Of course, that's not much better because EA doesn't put DLC on sale all that much or bundle it in the base game. They do that with expansions, but not DLC. So I have a feeling that while the base game may go down in price 6 months from now, the cost of entry will still be very high because of the "must have" DLC content.

Of course, there is an upside if it does become a major cash cow - we will see more competition in that marketplace. If EA starts raking in the cash with their city-builder game, that's going to encourage others to get a bite of that apple with their own product. Or at least one can always hope.

[Logan]

I just wouldn't buy it out of spite at this point. I understand that you guys are really into these games and you probably feel like you'd be pointlessly denying yourself of whatever enjoyment you would still get out of it, but sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and say that you're not going to reward this shit.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

I just wouldn't buy it out of spite at this point. I understand that you guys are really into these games and you probably feel like you'd be pointlessly denying yourself of whatever enjoyment you would still get out of it, but sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and say that you're not going to reward this shit.

Ding ding!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

I just wouldn't buy it out of spite at this point. I understand that you guys are really into these games and you probably feel like you'd be pointlessly denying yourself of whatever enjoyment you would still get out of it, but sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and say that you're not going to reward this shit.

Here's where I'm at.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Logan

I just wouldn't buy it out of spite at this point. I understand that you guys are really into these games and you probably feel like you'd be pointlessly denying yourself of whatever enjoyment you would still get out of it, but sometimes you just gotta put your foot down and say that you're not going to reward this shit.

Welcome to the Madden franchise five years ago.

[Thomkal]

SimCity getting additional server capacity and maintenance as players struggle to connect | News | PC Gamer

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

In the interest of complete honesty I don't think this will happen unless SC flops (which it won't). I think the servers will be up for at least 5 years unless you hear of plans for EA to release SC 2014 and turn it into a yearly release cycle.

I don't like EA's crap either, and I'm not touching SC right now, but to be fair, they have still kept Ultima Online up and running, and they had excuses to shut that thing down for years. I think as long as EA is making money, even just a little, they won;t take it down.

[Coffee Warlord]

The SimCity Disaster Continues: EA Disables Features To Try To Get The Servers Working

But online only play is good for the players!

[CleBrownsfan]

I was able to jump on the American East 1 server for a little while. I don't have any hope I'll be able to tonight though. Anyhow- I'm not sure why I can't see NeonChaos or Zinto as friends in game but I am able to see AlanT (dainir). I sent dainir an invite but obviously not to Neon or Zinto...

[Blackadar]

New patch notes:

EA Forums

Disabled Cheetah speed. Cheetah speed is is now the same as llama speed.

Damn. Apparently because running the game at this speed makes more calls to the server.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by CleBrownsfan

I was able to jump on the American East 1 server for a little while. I don't have any hope I'll be able to tonight though. Anyhow- I'm not sure why I can't see NeonChaos or Zinto as friends in game but I am able to see AlanT (dainir). I sent dainir an invite but obviously not to Neon or Zinto...

Maybe to see someone, they have to have logged on to that server and complete or close out of the tutorial or something?

[mckerney]

Part of EA's play for reducing serverload, disabling cheetah speed. Brilliant.

[Blackadar]

It gets worse. Amazon stopped selling the game.

Amazon.com: SimCity - Standard Edition [Download]: Video Games

(Assuming this gets changed in the future, the product is "currently unavailable"). There this note on the Amazon product page:

Important Note on "SimCity".
Many customers are having issues connecting to the "SimCity" servers. EA is actively working to resolve these issues, but at this time we do not know when the issue will be fixed. Please visit SimCity Help Center for more information.

[nilodor]

This is the first game in a while (I actually can't remember any) not to have reviews up the day of release. I wonder how hard they will be hammered by the review sites?

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by nilodor

This is the first game in a while (I actually can't remember any) not to have reviews up the day of release. I wonder how hard they will be hammered by the review sites?

Depends how much EA pays them

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by nilodor

This is the first game in a while (I actually can't remember any) not to have reviews up the day of release. I wonder how hard they will be hammered by the review sites?

There we're reviews up on release day. Polygon had given them a 9.5 in the 4th but changed it to an 8 following the release date server issues.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by nilodor

This is the first game in a while (I actually can't remember any) not to have reviews up the day of release. I wonder how hard they will be hammered by the review sites?

There were a number of reviews up on release. Polygon, XGN and a bunch of others released reveiws day 1. Interestingly enough, Polygon gave SC a 9.5...then today went back and edited it to an 8.0 due to the server problems on release.

But the later reviews? They'll probably get docked pretty hard for this shit - 10-15 points per review. Of course, there's a good chance that Tom Chick will go entirely overboard (as per his custom) and give it a 30 or something.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Of course, there's a good chance that Tom Chick will go entirely overboard (as per his custom) and give it a 30 or something.

I like Tom but man is this true. It is fascinating when he goes off the rails.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by path12

I like Tom but man is this true. It is fascinating when he goes off the rails.

Tom's a hypocritical dick, but even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

[Coffee Warlord]

[spleen1015]

When was the last time there was an online game launch this bad?

[mckerney]

Diablo 3 is the only thing really comes of the top of my head, though i don't think their issues went on quite as long.

[nilodor]

Is there an inkling why this went so wrong? Like online only games like Warcraft and all the FPS games seem to function fine. Is it a case of Origin being a problem, a gross underestimation on the number of players?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by nilodor

Is there an inkling why this went so wrong? Like online only games like Warcraft and all the FPS games seem to function fine. Is it a case of Origin being a problem, a gross underestimation on the number of players?

Server load for online games is always far higher at release than it is even a week later. They likely planned for typical server load without renting even close to enough extra capacity for the launch. Unless they completely fucked up and were way off their expectations for the server capacity they'd need.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Server load for online games is always far higher at release than it is even a week later. They likely planned for typical server load without renting even close to enough extra capacity for the launch. Unless they completely fucked up and were way off their expectations for the server capacity they'd need.

I don't see how they couldn't have known. The beta test a month ago was also an unmitigated disaster with the same issues - huge queue times, getting booted, problems with regions, vanishing cities, etc. There was a 50+ page thread about the people (me included) who couldn't even start the program for 24+ hours after the beta opened. That they knew about these problems and didn't fix them.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

i was going to joke about how always on drm is convenient for EA because you're only one click away from buying something but 'access to the marketplace' is actually one of their justifications

[molson]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

Except good luck getting it since customer service won't comply

So they put out a press release proclaiming one can "request a refund," but neglected to add that they will decline any such requests. That's tremendous.

[dubb93]

The thing that makes me most happy about this is that I feel like people push exactly how bad EA is under the rug. I've been vocal about this company to the point where I was actually blocked on their boards merely for addressing concerns about Mass Effect being completely bricked if you edit the settings.

What did I do that was offensive? I posted a fix that worked. But in doing so I passed the blame on EA rather than the customers and I apparently got banned for doing so(can't post anymore and my posts disappered, awesome guys!). This company is in a downward spiral. In a day and age when you can play games for $.99 on your phone, EA wants $100 for the complete package of their games.

EA is also a big publisher of PC games. We are in the STEAM age. STEAM has brought back PC gaming. EA pulls their games off STEAM.

This will either be a wake-up call or this company will be out of business in five years. The recent announcement that all EA games will include microtransactions due to popular demand shows just how out of touch this company is.

[spleen1015]

But aren't micro-transactions the new trend? Isn't that how Zynga's games got so big on Facebook? Maybe they aren't for us the serious gamer, but the casuals are eating it up it seems.

[dubb93]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

But aren't micro-transactions the new trend? Isn't that how Zynga's games got so big on Facebook? Maybe they aren't for us the serious gamer, but the casuals are eating it up it seems.

Then why not say that? And does Dead Space 3 really need them? How about Dragon Age 3 in the future? Mass Effect 4(or 3 for that matter since they are already in)? Sim City?

EA's stance is that we demanded they be in these games.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

When was the last time there was an online game launch this bad?

Anarchy Online, aka the last game that I ever purchased pre-release

[jeff061]

haha, Anarchy Online was so horrible at launch.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by mckerney

Diablo 3 is the only thing really comes of the top of my head, though i don't think their issues went on quite as long.

D3 was much worse from my own experiences. I actually haven't had a single issue with Sim City in 9 hours of play.

I think some people were still getting error 37 in diablo several days after release.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

it's just contemptuous. this nasty cycle of entertainment companies acquiring popular franchises and then commodify-ing everything that made it good in the first place

i assume this is what's taught in business schools nowadays because it's so pervasive. if you enjoy something it has value and that value can be extracted and a dollar amount attached

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

it's just contemptuous. this nasty cycle of entertainment companies acquiring popular franchises and then commodify-ing everything that made it good in the first place

i assume this is what's taught in business schools nowadays because it's so pervasive. if you enjoy something it has value and that value can be extracted and a dollar amount attached

[Neon_Chaos]

At least now i know what the "limited" in limited edition meant.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

Anarchy Online, aka the last game that I ever purchased pre-release

Ah yes I still not so fondly remember that launch. And its still around today. My thought on the Simcity release is that EA knew it would be bad, but didn't care because the franchise is big, they would get a lot of money from pre-orders from it, and even when people "rage-quitted" they knew there would still be a hardcore group of players who would stay with the game and/or buy it a few months from now when hopefully the game runs better than it does now.

[Thomkal]

Celebrity SimCity: Day 2 - Enter Notchtopia | Features, Hardware Reviews, News, Screenshots | PC Gamer

[Shkspr]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I actually haven't had a single issue with Sim City in 9 hours of play.

I can only conclude that you're not pressing the big green triangle on the launcher to actually attempt to load the game.

[Neon_Chaos]

Forbes proposes no more reviews for always-online games until at least 2 days after launch.

What 'SimCity' And Always-Online DRM Mean For Video Game Reviews - Forbes

Polygon drops score from 9.5 to 8.0 to 4.0.

SimCity review: engineering addiction | Polygon

[RainMaker]

After about 10 years of EA not having servers up to snuff at launch, I thought more people would realize this is standard operating procedure. They always buy less than what is needed because it's cheaper for them than buying too many and having waste. In a couple weeks they'll be up to snuff and would have saved a lot of money.

This isn't a mistake or an error on their part. Unless you believe they make the same mistake for every single title at launch.

[RainMaker]

I also feel bad for the developers who probably put their heart into the project and have it destroyed because some suit wanted to save a few bucks up front.