2017-2018 College Basketball Thread

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by molson

They have a game in about 8 hours - are Miller and Ayton just going to show up like nothing happened?

Emmert said that it's up to the school what they do and no NCAA process has been initiated.

I don't see why not even if they are guilty. The NCAA will wipe it all out later and then try to convince us that what we see tonight did not happen.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Why do they care? The athletic director and President may be gone before it matters and even if they aren't basically nobody at that level suffers professional consequences for spending too much in an effort to win.

The AD is brand new. It sucks for him but he was just hired like 4 months ago

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Sorry, his buyout clause with cause is 85%

Whaaaaaat !?!?!?!

You have GOT to be kidding.

Anybody that agreed to that sort of thing ought to be hoping THEY have a prohibitive buyout clause, 'cause that's grounds for dismissal right there.

Reason For Separation: Being a $#%@#$ idiot.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Whaaaaaat !?!?!?!

You have GOT to be kidding.

Anybody that agreed to that sort of thing ought to be hoping THEY have a prohibitive buyout clause, 'cause that's grounds for dismissal right there.

Reason For Separation: Being a $#%@#$ idiot.

Yup. Greg Byrne should be packing his bags. That is some mind-boggling idiocy right there. Makes you wonder if he has some kind of under-the-table kick-back arrangement with Miller...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

That is some mind-boggling idiocy right there.

That's the sort of "deal" that makes you wonder if they piss-tested the AD lately.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Yup. Greg Byrne should be packing his bags. That is some mind-boggling idiocy right there. Makes you wonder if he has some kind of under-the-table kick-back arrangement with Miller...

Bryne is at Alabama now

[molson]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Sorry, his buyout clause with cause is 85%

Might as well just keep him then.

Edit: Looks like he's not coaching tonight. No word on Ayton.

[murrayyyyy]

I'm just waiting for one of these coaches to point the finger at the NBA for it's one year rule.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

I'm just waiting for one of these coaches to point the finger at the NBA for it's one year rule.

Hopefully, if one goes that route, somebody will hit them over the head with a heavy object.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's the sort of "deal" that makes you wonder if they piss-tested the AD lately.

I'd look more at extortion of the school.

[JPhillips]

There's a big chance Rovell is wrong, but if he isn't...

JUST IN: Sean Miller’s contract, as written, somehow pays him more for getting fired with cause than without cause. So if Miller is fired with cause, Arizona will owe him approximately $5 million more ($10.3 million versus $5.15 million) than if they fired for no reason.

— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) February 24, 2018

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There's a big chance Rovell is wrong, but if he isn't...

If he isn't wrong then I gotta wonder if the same person that wrote the City of Miami deal with the Marlins might have also been involved here.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Bryne is at Alabama now

Good move Bama! Can't wait to see what kind of deal Saban can extract out of this idiot...

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

There's a big chance Rovell is wrong, but if he isn't...

JUST IN: Sean Miller’s contract, as written, somehow pays him more for getting fired with cause than without cause. So if Miller is fired with cause, Arizona will owe him approximately $5 million more ($10.3 million versus $5.15 million) than if they fired for no reason.

— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) February 24, 2018

Is there any reason they wouldn’t just fire him ‘without cause’ given this bizarre buyout structure?

[molson]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Is there any reason they wouldn’t just fire him ‘without cause’ given this bizarre buyout structure?

That's be a fun legal battle. Miller would have to prove he did things worthy of being fired and that the school acted on it. Maybe there's some logic to that from the school's perspective - that he would basically have to concede wrongdoing to get the higher payout, and maybe such a concession would negatively impact him in some other way.

I don't really trust a college basketball reporter's interpretation of an employment contract though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

I don't really trust a college basketball reporter's interpretation of an employment contract though.

fwiw, Forbes has a similar take, going on to say that it looks like there's a missing section in the contract.

Now either whatever has been obtained through public records is incorrect / incomplete and corrections were made but aren't turning up or ....

[murrayyyyy]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hopefully, if one goes that route, somebody will hit them over the head with a heavy object.

Didn't take long for me to find a taker and it's who I expected it to be.

Boeheim: "Everybody knows for 30 years agent have been involved with players' families. This is nothing that would surprise anybody in coaching. Agents are trying to get clients. When you have the one-and-done factor, they need to get them early. They can't wait four years. They have to go after them. That's not surprising."

[MizzouRah]

Mizzou looks like a tired basketball team. We have such a short bench. Next two games are must wins and a shot of MPJ would be an awesome welcome.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by murrayyyyy

Didn't take long for me to find a taker and it's who I expected it to be.

Boeheim: "Everybody knows for 30 years agent have been involved with players' families. This is nothing that would surprise anybody in coaching. Agents are trying to get clients. When you have the one-and-done factor, they need to get them early. They can't wait four years. They have to go after them. That's not surprising."

Well you certainly know how to pick a source that has no influence on me. One of the slimier characters I've seen in college hoops, certainly one that I believe would know about all manner of improprieties.

I simply don't believe that restraint of trade is the way to go in this deal. College really isn't "for everybody"

However, if you want the same impact, how about this: the NBA sets up a fwe companion rules, and you're only eligible in the league if you aren't subject to an NCAA suspension. Get caught signing while still enrolled, you're barred from the NBA for the remaining length of your eligibility.

Problem solved.

[tarcone]

On a bright note, at least for Iowa BB. Maybe not the NCAA. But posting here to get off the ugliness.

Iowas was leading by 8 with about 1 minute left in the game. Jordan Bohannon had tied the consecutive made free throw record set by Iowa legend Chris street who died tragically in a car accident in 1993. He got run over by a snow plow after a team dinner. He was what Iowa basketball was all about. Small town Iowa kid playing for the home team. A gamer. Great kid. Lost during the season. Devastated the state of Iowa.
Bohanbnon goes to the line and misses the front end of the one and one.
Keeps Streets name on top of a record. By the way, Street was in the middle of the record when he died.
Bohannon went to Streets parents after the game and gave them a tearful hug.

Good stuff.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well you certainly know how to pick a source that has no influence on me. One of the slimier characters I've seen in college hoops, certainly one that I believe would know about all manner of improprieties.

I simply don't believe that restraint of trade is the way to go in this deal. College really isn't "for everybody"

However, if you want the same impact, how about this: the NBA sets up a fwe companion rules, and you're only eligible in the league if you aren't subject to an NCAA suspension. Get caught signing while still enrolled, you're barred from the NBA for the remaining length of your eligibility.

Problem solved.

What is the benefit to the NBA for doing that? Why limit their pool of talented players to draw from?

[miami_fan]

At what point does basketball move closer to the baseball model than the football model? Players can be drafted out of high school. If a player decides to go to college, there is a mandatory time commitment. The G League becomes a true development league etc. The one thing I am not sure about is the role agents/advisers play in baseball at the high school/college level. I am under the impression that agents act as advisers for high school/college players, and then become their agents when they turn pro. Again, I am not sure about that part though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

What is the benefit to the NBA for doing that? Why limit their pool of talented players to draw from?

Oh, I didn't say it was a great idea. I merely offered something better than coaches whining about something they can control if they had the stones.

[MrBug708]

Sounds like there are some holes in the Sean Miller story, but the AD and President are still in a pickle

[Arles]

yeah, this is kind of odd.

https://247sports.com/Article/Source...ller-115594868

I just wish we knew when it actually happened and what was said. If Miller said "Hey, I just paid him 100K to come here" when that was going on (or even shortly after), it would be a lot more damning than if it turns out to be some hypothetical about what a payment could be.

Either way, the damage has been done to Arizona. Even if Miller is somehow found innocent, the team will have no recruiting class for the next two seasons and the stink will be on. I just wish ESPN could have gotten their ducks in a row a little better before dropping this. I talk with a bunch of UofA alumns (myself included) who were ready to kick him out on Saturday - but now are just confused on what actually went down with these retractions/corrections by ESPN. The Ringer sums this up pretty well:

For starters, Schlabach’s story provided zero direct quotes from the wiretap, suggesting that he hasn’t listened to the recording or even seen a transcript of the call. Also, Schlabach said in a televised interview that the wiretapped call took place in the spring of 2017, which would mean that the discussion over payments to guarantee Ayton’s commitment took place after he had signed his national letter of intent in November 2016. ESPN issued a correction to its story and said that the alleged call took place in “spring of 2016,” a timeline that was later corrected yet again to read simply “2016.” But even that doesn’t completely clear up the time-frame issue when you consider that a 247Sports report from Monday includes this passage: “Sources say that the U.S. Attorney’s office notified multiple parties who had conversations with Dawkins that their phone calls had been recorded specifically during the dates of June 19, 2017 and Sept. 25, 2017.”

Further complicating matters is that, as CBS Sports’ Gary Parrish pointed out on Twitter, those who closely follow recruiting seem to think that Ayton and Dawkins never had much of a relationship, casting doubt on the notion that Dawkins would have been in position to “sell” Ayton’s services in the first place. And let’s not forget that there’s likely a specific reason this piece of information about the wiretap call was leaked to the media.

There are two questions surrounding Miller that keep tripping me up:

- Why would the head coach of Arizona handle his dirty business himself and not have an assistant serve as his fall guy, especially when the person on the other end of the purported interaction (Dawkins) was in his 20s?
- If the FBI had stone-cold proof that Miller offered a $100,000 bribe to land a sought-after recruit—which is what the public has been led to believe—why wasn’t Miller arrested along with the rest of the guys whom the FBI threw cuffs on in September?

[Arles]

To pile on a bit, ESPN is also wrong in their story that Arizona would have to pay Miller more if he was fired (as referenced above by many including Rovell):

University officials said they recognize there might be some ambiguity in the contract language. But they said the intent of the parties is clear, and intent has consistently been upheld in Arizona courts.

"Base Salary and any Additional Compensation are payable only to the date of termination," the university said in a statement issued to The Arizona Republic and azcentral.com.

In other words: No, Miller wouldn't get more money if fired with cause.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...use/371709002/

[Arles]

Here's a good story recapping all the Yahoo and ESPN reports:

https://www.theringer.com/2018/2/27/...ts-sean-miller

[Butter]

Wasn't Book Richardson an assistant at Arizona? That makes the case a lot more likely to me, despite the reporting inaccuracies.

Let's not try to start spinning this as Miller was clean and is getting railroaded.

[Arles]

That's part of what is confusing. He had a dirty assistant in Richardson. So, according to this wiretap, he goes to a guy who can't even deliver Ayton (according to CBS) and tells him directly that he's offering $100K for Ayton? Why not send Book to tell him - why do it directly? Then you have the original report that this discussion happened months after Ayton already enrolled (which they quickly backtracked to a year before - when no wiretap was running).

There's just a lot of oddities in this report. I fully believe Miller is somewhat dirty, I just am interested in the actual facts the FBI have here.

[MrBug708]

There is so much misinformation out there, but Arizona is in a huge bind either way. They should just roll with Trier, Ayton, and Miller and see if they can win it. But hinestly, Millet isnt worth the problems at this point

[Arles]

Miller just spoke at Arizona and said he never paid a player (or helped pay a player) to come to Arizona. He also said that he had never met or talked to Dawkins when Ayton committed. He did say that Dawkins did contact him about a player that did not come to Arizona.

So, if you put all the tea leaves in order, the most reasonable explanation here is this: Dawkins called Miller about Brian Bowen, said it would cost $100K to get him, Miller declined and nothing happened after that. That explanation meets the original timeline (call was June 2017), the wiretap was in effect and Dawkins was the key guy for Bowen (as opposed to not being associated with Ayton). If this is actually what happened, ESPN butchered this beyond belief. There's really no way Ayton could be the player on the wiretap if you look at all the information. And, if Miller did agree to pay $100K, I'm guessing the FBI would have arrested him with his assistant (Richardson) as that is more damning than anything Book ever did.

[MrBug708]

Chances are Miller is lying and is buying time for this tournament. Arizona is probably his last college job either way so he might as well roll with a team with top 3 talent.

This is the best summary I could find.
------------

Now the Arizona administration apparently feels it's had time to examine the allegation, consult with their attorneys, boosters, etc., and Miller himself, and they've decided based on subsequent articles written and questions raised about, the ESPN article, that it isn't credible -- at least to the extent they can use it as justification to fire Miller.

I think Miller is dirty as all-get-out, but it's shady that ESPN ran with a story that it subsequently had to correct multiple times. Also shady that the writer of the article has gone MIA since these questions were raised (presumably under legal advise to do so). Legitimate questions were raised about the accuracy of the article, and ESPN and the article's writer have gone silent in answering those questions.

It seems to me like there may have been some basis for that article, but ESPN and the writer rushed it to publication before giving it the necessary vetting. They could have easily looked at the date of Ayton's public commitment and seen that it contradicted the date that Schalbach's source gave him and questioned the source about it, which you would think have had a major impact on whether ESPN decided to publish it or not. They also could have better researched the nature of Miller's relationship with Dawkins. A week later, they don't even appear to be sure whether the alleged conversation was about Ayton or Brian Bowen.

You add it all up, and Arizona would have opened itself up to a potentially very costly wrongful termination suit had it fired Miller now. Apparently they couldn't come to a negotiated settlement either. And Arizona's boosters and fan-base desperately want to keep Miller. You add all that up, and it just makes sense that they continue the status quo, at least for the time being. I don't think this is over by a long-shot, but I would expect Miller to at least coach his team through the remainder of the season.

[Arles]

But what is he lying about? You really think that he went on record on a public phone to a guy he barely knew and say "Yeah, I'll pay you $100K"? Then, once the FBI had this information, they chose not to arrest him - but did his assistant?

This just doesn't pass the smell test. I don't think Miller is the coach at Arizona next season, but I don't think this ESPN report will be the reason. It would have to be something from the Richardson investigation. My issue from the start is that how does Miller no know his longtime assistant was dirty? And even if he didn't, that's almost as bad in terms of managing your program.

But, all this doesn't excuse what ESPN did to Arizona and Ayton.

[Arles]

Well, ESPN is doubling down. Here's their rebuttal to Miller's conference:
Sean Miller, Arizona Wildcats coach, denies report he discussed paying recruit

Sources told ESPN's Mark Schlabach last week that FBI wiretaps intercepted phone conversations between Miller and Christian Dawkins, an employee for ASM Sports agent Andy Miller. According to sources familiar with the government's evidence, Sean Miller and Dawkins discussed paying $100,000 to ensure that Deandre Ayton would sign with the Wildcats.

Miller and Dawkins had multiple conversations about Ayton, sources told ESPN. When Dawkins asked Miller if he should work with assistant coach Emanuel "Book" Richardson to finalize their agreement, Miller told Dawkins he should deal directly with him when it came to money, the sources said.

The Arizona coach did not mention ESPN by name in his comments Thursday and did not take questions after making his statement.

ESPN stands by its reporting on Miller and the FBI investigation.

The bolded part is just crazy. Why would any coach ever say that??!

[Arles]

SI is now calling out ESPN as well:

https://www.si.com/college-basketbal...on-espn-report

According to the source, relevant FBI wiretaps in the investigation did not begin until 2017—months after five-star recruit Deandre Ayton had already committed to Arizona in Sept. 2016. This account is consistent with reporting by Evan Daniels of 247Sports. The recruitment of Ayton, therefore, would have not been at issue in an intercepted phone call that occurred in 2017. To that end, the source told SI what Miller clarified for the first time Thursday: Ayton is not the player on whose behalf former ASM Sports employee Christian Dawkins allegedly sought a payment from Miller, and Miller never pursued or made any payments to a recruit associated with Dawkins.

This account depicts Miller as complying with both the law and NCAA recruiting rules. The same holds true of Ayton, whose compliance with NCAA rules would ensure that he remains eligible to play for the final month of his freshman year.

Wow, if this is true, ESPN is in trouble.

[MrBug708]

Dave Bliss was denied everything, until the tapes came out.

At this point, and ESPN messed up, is just wait until the FBI is done.

[Arles]

True, we don't know. But this story is clearly not true (Miller offered $100K for Ayton) and that's a shame as a ton of damage has been done to Arizona, Miller and Ayton.

[Young Drachma]

Players in all sports should be able to benefit from their likeness. And pros should still not be allowed to play college sports. The Olympic model is the best idea.

[tarcone]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

Players in all sports should be able to benefit from their likeness. And pros should still not be allowed to play college sports. The Olympic model is the best idea.

I agree. Its BS that EA and the NCAA made tons of money off of college players and they got nothing. Just wrong.
When it comes to jerseys, dont put names on jerseys, then the colleges can sell them without paying the players. Otherwise, they should pay the players.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Dave Bliss was denied everything, until the tapes came out.

At this point, and ESPN messed up, is just wait until the FBI is done.

I don't think Miller is clean, I definitely don't think Arizona is clean, but I'm with Arles (& SI, etc) that I really doubt Miller talked to Dawkins about Ayton, I really doubt he'd tell Dawkins to deal directly with him instead of the known dirty assistant, and I think if the FBI had him on a wiretap saying that he'd have been arrested for tax evasion/money laundering along with all the other people the FBI charged.

[tarcone]

Iowa soph forward Tyler Cook may be transferring. He was asked after the loss today and gave a non-answer.
Mizzou is the probable landing spot if he goes. Which I think is most likely.

Good player from about 10 feet in. But lacks a lot of skills right now.

[Butter]

Best theory I have heard is that this is coming from Richardson's lawyer to start throwing Miller under the bus. They're some of the only people that would be privy to any actual info for this investigation.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Butter

Best theory I have heard is that this is coming from Richardson's lawyer to start throwing Miller under the bus. They're some of the only people that would be privy to any actual info for this investigation.

I don’t think that’s right as someone close to Book told the Arizona Daily Star on Monday that Ayton wasn’t the player on the tape and said the call was about Bowen.

For the conspiracy nuts, a better answer is a source from another program involved wanted to either damage Arizona for recruiting or take some of the upcoming heat off them and put Arizona in the fire. Still, I'm not sure this was a pure malice play (but I could certainly be wrong). I just think that a source told the ESPN reporter that Miller was on a wiretap discussing a top prospect (and floated out Ayton). ESPN had just been majorly scooped by Yahoo on the documents - so the powers that be said “F it, let’s run with this” and they didn’t do the proper vetting.

[Logan]

I wonder what the "proper vetting" even is in that case? They didn't claim that they heard the alleged tape so they would need a way to verify that their source had access to sealed FBI evidence. That's rough going, especially for ESPN to then come out after the fact and say that they stand behind the reporting.

[Arles]

Well, the damage has been done to Arizona. Their final top 100 recruit just decommitted in Brandon Williams. Even if the FBI tapes come out tomorrow and completely exonerate Miller, this team has been completely neutered for the next two seasons.

[Thomkal]

Sadly the season is over at Coastal Carolina after losing in the first round of the Sun Belt Conference Tourney. They had their moments, but they were few and far between. Mostly made up of newcomers, they just were not ready for the "big leagues" this season. They end play at 14-18. Good luck to "your" team in the various tournaments this season.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

He's back.

Missouri freshman Michael Porter Jr. plans to play Thursday in SEC tournament

Should be really interesting to see how he does. Nice thing is that he's entering a good situation and doesn't have to be the focus of the attack, but he will open up the defense and ease some of the double teams simply by being on the court.

Mizzou's got a real chance to make a run with MPJ being back and the easier top seeds (IMO) of Kentucky and Auburn on their side of the bracket. Won't hurt that Mizzou should have a good crowd on hand in St. Louis, especially with MPJ back.

[MrBug708]

Enjoy him for the rest of the season before he's off to the NBA for the 2018-2019 season

[Izulde]

Typical UNLV in the first round of the MWC tournament. Playing an inferior opponent in Air Force and winning pretty much the entire game, then get sloppy down the stretch and have to win in OT. This is an exciting game and team, but man, those second half mental screwups drive me insane.

UNR tomorrow and I want so badly to kick their asses. We beat them at their place and they embarrassed us in Las Vegas. In order to win, we're going to have to play a *lot* better than we did today.

[tarcone]

I wonder why the B1G tourney is a week before everyone else. Rest before the big dance?