2015 NFL Divisional Round Thread

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Another bad flag pickup

What is the defender supposed to do - learn to levitate so he doesn't land on the QB? Thought that was an excellent pick up, personally.

[Abe Sargent]

And that's probably game

[Radii]

That'll do it, oh well.

[BillJasper]

Turn out the lights, the party's over.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

What is the defender supposed to do - learn to levitate so he doesn't land on the QB? Thought that was an excellent pick up, personally.

+1

[NobodyHere]

Carolina's offense is finally playing like they care, let's hope they finish the job this drive.

[NobodyHere]

Speak of the devil...

[Abe Sargent]

And with that pick, it removes all doubt

[EagleFan]

Finished the drive...

[Dutch]

The Panthers are who we thought they were...but we didn't let 'em off the hook.

[Buccaneer]

stevew, that will be the only positive aspect of Lynch that you could tell your grandchildren.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

stevew, that will be the only positive aspect of Lynch that you could tell your grandchildren.

Oh yeah. I'll take the over on 1.5 violent felonies after football

[stevew]

The Microsoft Surface stuff is really obstructive

[mckerney]

What Kam Chancellor scoring a defensive touchdown looks like on the seismograph. #GoHawks pic.twitter.com/WfsATbeSae

— Mike Selinker (@mikeselinker) January 11, 2015

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by stevew

The Microsoft Surface stuff is really obstructive

Blame the announcers who were calling them iPads.

[NobodyHere]

Well we now know how the Patriots were able to protect Brady in the 2nd half.

John Harbaugh: Pats' substitutions deceptive, illegal - NFL.com

Tom Brady on Ravens' complaints: Study the rules - NFL.com

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well we now know how the Patriots were able to protect Brady in the 2nd half.

John Harbaugh: Pats' substitutions deceptive, illegal - NFL.com

Tom Brady on Ravens' complaints: Study the rules - NFL.com

Show some class Harbaugh.

[Wolfpack]

I can console myself that the Panthers didn't get embarrassed. They gave it their best shot, but they had too many mistakes and it only took a couple of them to give the game to Seattle. Offense still needs a lot of work, but that defense is something to be proud of once again (not to mention basically showed, though it took a while, that it can survive without Greg Hardy, which I think it'll have to because I doubt he plays another down for Carolina).

[mckerney]

Oh no, a football team tried to do something deceptive!

[molson]

Breakdown of the Patriots' 4-offensive linemen play.

The Patriots' trick play that got John Harbaugh mad - SBNation.com

Not the fanciest trick play ever, but definitely tricky.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by frnk55

God I hate the pats

Have to agree. Thought the Ravens had a legitimate shot at it. Oh well. Flacco had no business throwing it up as he did at the end. Give the Pats credit.

Can't see the Colts or Broncos beating them up there.

That said, not sure anyone is beating Seattle.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Well we now know how the Patriots were able to protect Brady in the 2nd half.

John Harbaugh: Pats' substitutions deceptive, illegal - NFL.com

Tom Brady on Ravens' complaints: Study the rules - NFL.com

I can understand. After they tried that fake field goal against the 49ers in the Super Bowl and failed, Harbaugh logically concluded that trickeration is bad, and you can win without resorting to any kind of deception on the field.

Had the defense been more alert on this one, though - the Pats are basically playing 10-on-11, down one on the offensive line. And every linebacker should be identifying the relevant gaps on every play. So I'm not sure how this worked, except if you're simply not paying attention - like on a successful fake field goal.

Also, if you can't make those reads instantly, you're not prepared for any hurry-up offense.

[SackAttack]

The problem is, that's a personnel thing. The defense is supposed to have the opportunity to react to the personnel the offense sends out.

If the offense is waiting until immediately pre-snap to declare one man in the formation to be a receiver and not an offensive lineman, that's depriving the defense of their opportunity to react.

That's different from the hurry-up, where the personnel remain the same, but there's essentially no chance to get tired players off the field.

I'm not going to go as far as Harbaugh did and call it "illegal," but if this is true:

Originally Posted by Yahoo! Sports

One of Harbaugh's specific claims is that Shane Vereen announced his ineligibility right before the snap, which did not allow the defense to adjust accordingly.

that seems like it'd at least be in violation of the spirit of the rules, even if it passes muster with the letter.

[SirFozzie]

I saw the play in question.. on the way out of the huddle, Vereen goes to the ref to announce his ineligibility, and the ref holds up the hand and tells a couple of the Ravens that Vereen is ineligible.

No different than the tackle eligible play

edit: and yes, the refs told the Ravens that Vereen was ineligible:

The Ravens were so confused on defense that even the officials were audibly instructing them not to cover Shane Vereen.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pat...-was-deception

[NobodyHere]

This was more than one play.

[SirFozzie]

and each time the Ravens were told who was ineligible.

[Lathum]

Hey Pats fans, you guys won. Just let it go and enjoy the victory.

[albionmoonlight]

After word gets out about not having to cover the ineligible receiver on that type of play, then you add a wrinkle where he takes two steps back at the snap and you throw him a quick lateral.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

After word gets out about not having to cover the ineligible receiver on that type of play, then you add a wrinkle where he takes two steps back at the snap and you throw him a quick lateral.

Ding Ding Ding

And HS football comes to the NFL.
Come on Harbaugh, Im usually a huge fan of John and Jim, but this is old school stuff.

Its the entire foundation of the A-11 offense. Which worked for about 5 weeks. IN HIGHSCHOOL

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Hey Pats fans, you guys won. Just let it go and enjoy the victory.

Let what go? Others are coming out professing their hatred, jealousy or ignorance of cleverness as if trying to provoke.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

After word gets out about not having to cover the ineligible receiver on that type of play, then you add a wrinkle where he takes two steps back at the snap and you throw him a quick lateral.

He still would have to check in with an official, since he had been declared ineligible.

Defenses have to adjust to unusual formations. How this is any different from hurry-ups, using a third tackle, trips receivers, running out of field-goal formation or any number of other wrinkles escapes me.

Belichick is a Hall-of-Fame coach. He will push the limits. That's part of what makes him great. I have no sympathy for Harbaugh on this.

[Julio Riddols]

Congrats on the greenlight, Jim!

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

He still would have to check in with an official, since he had been declared ineligible.

No he is still an ineligible receiver.
Anyone including linemen can take a lateral or backward pass.

Also eligibility is tied into jersey number. If you are wearing an eligible number everytime you enter the field you are eligible unless you check in and declare ineligible. Declaration stays as long as you stay on the field.

Agree 100% with the rest of your post. I am not a Pats fan but a huge Belichick fan.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

He still would have to check in with an official, since he had been declared ineligible.

Defenses have to adjust to unusual formations. How this is any different from hurry-ups, using a third tackle, trips receivers, running out of field-goal formation or any number of other wrinkles escapes me.

Belichick is a Hall-of-Fame coach. He will push the limits. That's part of what makes him great. I have no sympathy for Harbaugh on this.

+1

[cuervo72]

Tom Brady countered in typical Patriots fashion, saying "maybe those guys gotta study the rule book and figure it out. We obviously knew what we were doing and we made some pretty important plays. It was a real good weapon for us. Maybe we'll have something in store next week."

See, that's why some of us don't like these guys. That's such a dick quote. Hey, maybe the Ravens should have been smarter like we are! Call out the Ravens for not immediately recognizing a tactic that has been used in the NFL never (I'm sure Brady himself really knew of this before Belichick cooked it up in practice).

I suppose it is legal and it is clever - and it's something you can use once - but it still stinks.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

See, that's why some of us don't like these guys. That's such a dick quote. Hey, maybe the Ravens should have been smarter like we are! Call out the Ravens for not immediately recognizing a tactic that has been used in the NFL never (I'm sure Brady himself really knew of this before Belichick cooked it up in practice).

I suppose it is legal and it is clever - and it's something you can use once - but it still stinks.

If you include the question in there it was a pretty...leading question by the reporter. He did have a bit of smug look on his face, but I mean...what do you want him to say?

I guess "no comment" might have been classier, but that's about all I can think of.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Show some class Harbaugh.

Originally Posted by molson

Breakdown of the Patriots' 4-offensive linemen play.

The Patriots' trick play that got John Harbaugh mad - SBNation.com

Not the fanciest trick play ever, but definitely tricky.

Originally Posted by SackAttack

The problem is, that's a personnel thing. The defense is supposed to have the opportunity to react to the personnel the offense sends out.

If the offense is waiting until immediately pre-snap to declare one man in the formation to be a receiver and not an offensive lineman, that's depriving the defense of their opportunity to react.

That's different from the hurry-up, where the personnel remain the same, but there's essentially no chance to get tired players off the field.

I'm not going to go as far as Harbaugh did and call it "illegal," but if this is true:



that seems like it'd at least be in violation of the spirit of the rules, even if it passes muster with the letter.

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

I saw the play in question.. on the way out of the huddle, Vereen goes to the ref to announce his ineligibility, and the ref holds up the hand and tells a couple of the Ravens that Vereen is ineligible.

No different than the tackle eligible play

edit: and yes, the refs told the Ravens that Vereen was ineligible:

The Ravens were so confused on defense that even the officials were audibly instructing them not to cover Shane Vereen.

Harbaugh: Patriots' strange formation was 'deception' | Comcast SportsNet - CSNNE.com

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Let what go? Others are coming out professing their hatred, jealousy or ignorance of cleverness as if trying to provoke.

QFT

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

No he is still an ineligible receiver.
Anyone including linemen can take a lateral or backward pass.

Also eligibility is tied into jersey number. If you are wearing an eligible number everytime you enter the field you are eligible unless you check in and declare ineligible. Declaration stays as long as you stay on the field.

Agree 100% with the rest of your post. I am not a Pats fan but a huge Belichick fan.

I think we meant the same thing. If you are playing a role that contradicts your jersey number, you have to check in. Laterals aren't passes. Adding one could clearly be a wrinkle in that play ladder, though I suspect a hot-read blitz and a good shot on Brady would be a one-time answer that ends this gimmick for good. We probably won't see it again.

Coaching is tough. If any of us went out there in one of today's sophisticated defenses (barring the obvious physical limits), we'd have no idea how to read the personnel and the formation. Lining up against trips requires a mutual understanding and immediate recognition.

Harbaugh's complaint, though, goes too far. His team was notified. Obviously, players didn't know how to handle it, and the referee isn't going to give them ten seconds for a coordinator to make a read of the formation and relay that information.

Fundamentally, though, there aren't many truly innovative concepts. Just more and more variations on common themes. Belichick got bit bad by Miami's first Wildcat. He didn't get a 15-yard penalty complaining about it. After the game, he accepted responsibility, said it was just a variation on the single-wing and that he needed to be better prepared. On that day, he was outcoached. Given his nature, it probably made him a better coach.

[cuervo72]

A more tactful approach by Brady might have been to admit that it is a wrinkle that most teams probably don't practice for or see often, that it worked to their advantage, and maybe it gives their next opponent something else to have to prepare for.

--------------

This is a tactic that was legal, but it was shifty. (Which I think makes it funny to see Bucc support when he is the bastion of backing all that is Pure and Holy and Righteous in sports).

This is Chubby finding an exploit in MP where everyone calls him out for being the asshole he is, he flips everyone off, and then a rule immediately gets changed (then word gets back to Jim and he says "well I wouldn't play in a league with someone who is going to do that, I would kick him out"). It's a little different in that this is counts and is for real $$, but from a fan's standpoint it's close to the same thing.

[ColtCrazy]

I hate the Pats. Hate them. Have no problem with them doing anything they want within the rules to try to win. Teams have been running reverses, double reverses, flea flickers, etc. for years. How is this much different? Personally, I've wondered for awhile why teams don't do the wide receiver screen fake pass more often. Denver and New England run those screens so often you'd think the defense would fall for that sometime.

That said, teams that use trickery tend to fall into two categories: exploiting another team's weakness or hiding their own weaknesses. The Bengals used a flea flicker and a wide receiver handoff to try to trick the Colts. One worked, one didn't. It was clear they were desperate to move to ball by any means necessary. As for yesterday, I have no idea. I don't watch Patriots games, and I didn't yesterday until the final drive. The Ravens match up very well with them so I'm sure they did what they needed to do to get an advantage. In the end, the Ravens still had a chance to win. With just under two minutes left on the Patriot side of the field, I still say there's zero reason for Flacco to try to get it all on one throw. You've moved the ball all night. Dink and dunk your way to the end zone, you had the time.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

QFT

I made one post with a link to photos of the play because I thought it was interesting. That was my only post about the game. Sorry that upset you so much. When the Giants are relevant you're posting about it heavily.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by molson

I made one post with a link to photos of the play because I thought it was interesting. That was my only post about the game. Sorry that upset you so much. When the Giants are relevant you're posting about it heavily.

You're post didn't upset me in the least. It's more the general tone of the while thing. Here and on Facebook. Admittedly Facebook is worse.

[Scoobz0202]

Let's go Cowboys. It's showtime

[Lathum]

I have an outside shot to win a good chunk in a weekly league. Need Cole Beasly to come through.

[ColtCrazy]

Originally Posted by Lathum

You're post didn't upset me in the least. It's more the general tone of the while thing. Here and on Facebook. Admittedly Facebook is worse.

It usually is.

[Scoobz0202]

Welp. Not a promising start for the Cowboys

[kingfc22]

Good start to this one for GB being able to run ball and not totally rely on Rodgers who is obviously not 100%.

[Scoobz0202]

Ticky tack PI call gets the Cowboys 7. I'll take it.

[Jas_lov]

Phantom PI on Tramon. NFL wants to keep the Cowboys in this. Let's just hope they don't take this one from GB.

[Scoobz0202]

Followed by a pretty borderline cheap shot by Matthews.