Tim Tebow ..

[cuervo72]

So for Tebow to succeed, someone is going to have to take a gamble on basically running a college offense built specifically for him - in essence making him your franchise player. That's a lot to ask of a coach/GM who isn't making a last ditch effort to save his job. Because if that doesn't work, there will probably be some firings.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

So for Tebow to succeed, someone is going to have to take a gamble on basically running a college offense built specifically for him - in essence making him your franchise player. That's a lot to ask of a coach/GM who isn't making a last ditch effort to save his job. Because if that doesn't work, there will probably be some firings.

A college offense won't work in the NFL. Tebow either needs to adjust to the NFL game or be an afterthought. That doesn't mean you can't pepper in some running plays and utilize his athleticism, but he will still need to be able to operate an NFL offense.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

A college offense won't work in the NFL. Tebow either needs to adjust to the NFL game or be an afterthought. That doesn't mean you can't pepper in some running plays and utilize his athleticism, but he will still need to be able to operate an NFL offense.

Hey, that's my belief too. But it seems that some think he's just SO GOOD that he can make an unworkable offense workable. If he's not given that opportunity then he was never given a chance...of course he'll never be given that opportunity! So he'll never succeed and it will be the NFL establishment's fault! Basically, this argument will never be put to rest.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Hey, that's my belief too. But it seems that some think he's just SO GOOD that he can make an unworkable offense workable. If he's not given that opportunity then he was never given a chance...of course he'll never be given that opportunity! So he'll never succeed and it will be the NFL establishment's fault! Basically, this argument will never be put to rest.

Who is saying that?

[bbgunn]

Tebow to the CFL! Hamilton Tiger-Cats, baby!!!!

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

when he came out every talking head said the same thing. he's gonna need an hc/oc that believes in him and will let him develop.

ffwd 2 years, exact opposite happens, and the same talking heads are shitting themselves. 'he's an abomination!!!' well, no durr.

a running team, decent line. play action roll outs- cut the field in half etc. etc.

basically what the 49ers have done with smith.

[RainMaker]

The worst thing to happen to him was being a 1st round pick. If he had been a 6th or 7th rounder and behind some a good QB, he'd be able to develop. Would have been a perfect pick for a team like Pittsburgh.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I still say the Broncos needed a middle LB & took one of the best available... the problem is they think he's a QB,

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Newton has an offensive line and an elite wide receiver too. They aren't in the same league, but Newton doesn't pull this off in Denver with that slop.

I am fairly certain that a better offensive line and/or elite wide receiver would not make Tim Tebow better. The guy works hard, is supposedly a great person, and is very competitive. But anyone who has seen him take NFL snaps can clearly see that he is in way over his head. As others here have already stated, perhaps he should be used as an H-back or something, because a starting NFL QB he is not.

[gstelmack]

Carolina's "Elite" wide receiver isn't all that elite anymore. He's still pretty good, but not "elite". The common denominator here is that Denver has the same head coach who turned Steve Smith and the rest of this offense into "well below average".

[Radii]

I don't much care about Tebow either way but Steve Smith was in a major decline the last two years in Carolina, this offseason it was assumed the Panthers would trade him and many fans thought it was the right time to do so. Didn't Denver have the leading WR in the NFL last season and give him away for a 5th round pick this year?

[gkb]

God I wish Tebow was on a different team. Thanks Josh...bastard.

[Apathetic Lurker]

he has a 4-1 td to int ratio..That means he's doing something right somewhere

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

he has a 4-1 td to int ratio..That means he's doing something right somewhere

2 of those 4 td's were against the Miami Dolphins. He also has 2 fumbles and a whopping 46.1% completion percentage.

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Radii

I don't much care about Tebow either way but Steve Smith was in a major decline the last two years in Carolina, this offseason it was assumed the Panthers would trade him and many fans thought it was the right time to do so. Didn't Denver have the leading WR in the NFL last season and give him away for a 5th round pick this year?

They figured he'd be a locker room cancer because he's a free agent at the end of the year and wanted to rack up some stats this year that weren't going to come with Tebow throwing the ball behind him all game long.

[Pumpy Tudors]

If the Pittsburgh Power AFL team signs Tim Tebow within the next two years, I'm going to kill myself. I just wanted to get that out there right now.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If the Pittsburgh Power AFL team signs Tim Tebow within the next two years, I'm going to kill myself. I just wanted to get that out there right now.

You would be missed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

because a starting NFL QB in a traditional offense he is not.

Fixed that for you, or at least provided a version that I don't think too many people would disagree with.

I believe at least a quarter of the teams in the NFL, including the one he's on, would be well-served by building an offense (including personnel) around him however.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I think the Broncos should have him play ironman football. I know the Broncos haven't made a clean tackle since 2001, so he might help them on defense.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Fixed that for you, or at least provided a version that I don't think too many people would disagree with.

I believe at least a quarter of the teams in the NFL, including the one he's on, would be well-served by building an offense (including personnel) around him however.

I stand by my original comment. This guy is not a starting NFL QB, and as mentioned by other people here, the style of offense he is best suited for is not feasible at the NFL level. I think it is time for some people to take off their Tebow goggles and see what is clearly not there....

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

2 of those 4 td's were against the Miami Dolphins. He also has 2 fumbles and a whopping 46.1% completion percentage.

He reminds me of those wonderful qb's from the 40-70's, fumbles, low completion percentages etc....

Miamis D is not that horrible. If it was against the Pats i'd be more inclined to agree that his td's were a fluke.

Personally I'm not a fan of his style or the team but want to see what he can do the rest of the year

I think he might be the the second coming of Bobby Douglass

Joe Namath had something like 50% completion rating. Chad Pennington had over 65% Who would you rather have leading your team? Comp % is a bit overrated...

[RomaGoth]

Just by comparison, take a look at some other QB's in the NFL that are in their 1st or 2nd year in the league (these are just basic stats):

Name (Team)-round/pick/year) comp % with TD's and Int's (2011 stats)

Andy Dalton (Cincinnati-2/35/2011) 62.4% with 9 TD's and 7 Int's
Cam Newton (Carolina-1/1/2011) 60.6% with 11 TD's and 9 Int's
Colt McCoy (Cleveland-3/85/2010) 57.0% with 9 TD's and 5 Int's
Sam Bradford (St. Louis-1/1/2010) 53.15 with 3 TD's and 2 Int's
Christian Ponder (Minnesota-1/12/2011) 51.9% with 3 TD's and 2 Int's
Tim Tebow (Denver-1/25/2010) 46.1% with 4 TD's and 1 Int
Blaine Gabbert (Jacksonville-1/10/2011) 45.7% with with 5 TD's and 4 Int's

[Apathetic Lurker]

Hes right there with Bradford, Ponder and Gabbert... Realistically, I won't know how we can grade them for about 5 years

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Apathetic Lurker

Miamis D is not that horrible. If it was against the Pats i'd be more inclined to agree that his td's were a fluke.

Miami's pass defense is arguably the worst in the NFL. Football Outsiders has them 31st against the pass, opponents have a QB rating of 103.1 against them, they're allowing 8.1 yards per attempt, and they've allowed 14 tds with just 2 Ints this season.

They're terrible.

[gkb]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Miami's pass defense is arguably the worst in the NFL. Football Outsiders has them 31st against the pass, opponents have a QB rating of 103.1 against them, they're allowing 8.1 yards per attempt, and they've allowed 14 tds with just 2 Ints this season.

They're terrible.

How dare you use actual statistics to make your argument! You take that back mister!

If there's one thing that's become obvious in Denver, it's that you do NOT bring facts to the table with regards to Tebow.

[DougW]

Lions disrespected Tebows faith.

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Miami's pass defense is arguably the worst in the NFL. Football Outsiders has them 31st against the pass, opponents have a QB rating of 103.1 against them, they're allowing 8.1 yards per attempt, and they've allowed 14 tds with just 2 Ints this season.

They're terrible.

I was going overall yardage...Miamis is 23rd....NE is last..

[revrew]

Honest evaluation by a Bronco fan:

1. Tebow's pocket problems are partly related to the offensive scheme employed by the Broncos. Watching the DET game, too often receivers were still running double-cut routes down the field when the Lions were already in the backfield. At other times, there was only 1 or 2 WRs in the pattern at all. Yes, Tebow was holding the ball too long, but who was he supposed to throw to? The coaching staff should be flogged for not running more quick routes and screens. (Although Tebow's accuracy problems were revealed when he did try quick slants, but still: No excuse for your QB to be under that much pressure all game without making adjustments. Better incompletes than sacks). And play-action passes in the 4th quarter? Would anyone in the stadium, much less on the field, bite on a play-action? Just less time for Tebow to look downfield. The play-action passes were irrefutable proof the coaching staff was inflexible in their approach to the game, and likely the QB himself.

2. Tebow's footwork is atrocious. He never sets and throws from the same spot, but is jump-tossing, skipping up to throw, not driving his front foot, etc. No wonder he's not accurate and has poor timing on the short-mid routes. We'll never know if he's accurate enough to be an NFL quarterback until someone fixes that footwork. And Tebow's arm is plenty strong, but again with that footwork, the ball will never get the distance it needs on the long passes either. It's fundamental stuff.

Now, John Gruden in a pre-draft workout/interview with Tebow (watch it if you can find it), did more to fix Tebow's footwork in 5 minutes than John Fox's staff has done all year. In the interview, he's sprinting back, setting his feet, firing. Would love to see that even once in a Bronco uniform. I'd have to watch tape to see if McD helped correct Tebow's footwork (and thus explaining his better success rate last season), but it's clear Tebow has regressed and the current staff hasn't made the same impression Gruden did.

Finally, speculation:
The game plan is idiotic
The kid's #1 need the staff is failing to address
The kid's #1 receiver gets traded away, for a 5th rounder

I don't know if Tebow can be an NFL QB or not, but it's clear the Broncos management ISN'T doing what they can to make him one. Could this be on purpose?

[Bigsmooth]

Could this be on purpose?

Uh yeah...seems pretty clear. No NFL player will intentionally try to lose but that Front Office has really put the players in an impossible situation. Well done, I say.

[cuervo72]

Hoge was on the DC Sports Reporters today talking about Tebow. Just a *touch* critical of his skills.

ESPN 980 Audio Vault - Play Now

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by revrew

Honest evaluation by a Bronco fan:

1. Tebow's pocket problems are partly related to the offensive scheme employed by the Broncos. Watching the DET game, too often receivers were still running double-cut routes down the field when the Lions were already in the backfield. At other times, there was only 1 or 2 WRs in the pattern at all. Yes, Tebow was holding the ball too long, but who was he supposed to throw to? The coaching staff should be flogged for not running more quick routes and screens. (Although Tebow's accuracy problems were revealed when he did try quick slants, but still: No excuse for your QB to be under that much pressure all game without making adjustments. Better incompletes than sacks). And play-action passes in the 4th quarter? Would anyone in the stadium, much less on the field, bite on a play-action? Just less time for Tebow to look downfield. The play-action passes were irrefutable proof the coaching staff was inflexible in their approach to the game, and likely the QB himself.

2. Tebow's footwork is atrocious. He never sets and throws from the same spot, but is jump-tossing, skipping up to throw, not driving his front foot, etc. No wonder he's not accurate and has poor timing on the short-mid routes. We'll never know if he's accurate enough to be an NFL quarterback until someone fixes that footwork. And Tebow's arm is plenty strong, but again with that footwork, the ball will never get the distance it needs on the long passes either. It's fundamental stuff.

Now, John Gruden in a pre-draft workout/interview with Tebow (watch it if you can find it), did more to fix Tebow's footwork in 5 minutes than John Fox's staff has done all year. In the interview, he's sprinting back, setting his feet, firing. Would love to see that even once in a Bronco uniform. I'd have to watch tape to see if McD helped correct Tebow's footwork (and thus explaining his better success rate last season), but it's clear Tebow has regressed and the current staff hasn't made the same impression Gruden did.

Finally, speculation:
The game plan is idiotic
The kid's #1 need the staff is failing to address
The kid's #1 receiver gets traded away, for a 5th rounder

I don't know if Tebow can be an NFL QB or not, but it's clear the Broncos management ISN'T doing what they can to make him one. Could this be on purpose?

Fox is very much a "his guys" coach. One of the things that ultimately clinched his falling out and eventual exit from Charlotte was that he basically had Jimmy Clausen thrust upon him by the front office and pretty much fought them every step of the way on whether or not to let him play last year.

[cartman]

some great stuff in Twitter if you check out #OccupyTebow

[stevew]

I'm still scratching my head why John Fix was considered such a good head coach that he remained unemployed for like a week. Sort of Mangini redux.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm still scratching my head why John Fix was considered such a good head coach that he remained unemployed for like a week. Sort of Mangini redux.

I think probably due to never having a legitimate franchise QB in Carolina and still getting to a Superbowl. But its one of those chicken/egg propositions.

If you mold a QB into performing well, OR the QB is a great talent, people think the QB is great & you are fortunate to have him.

If you don't mold the QB well, OR the QB just doesn't have it, then the QB sucks & you "did what you could".

I guess the Broncos saw the latter in Carolina. Not that I would disagree much but of course there are coordinators & the like that typically have the largest impact from a strategy standpoint.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'm still scratching my head why John Fix was considered such a good head coach that he remained unemployed for like a week. Sort of Mangini redux.

I hear John Fox sucks as well.

[Rizon]

Madden trashed Tebow a bit yesterday, too. Said he'd never be another Brett Favre.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Madden trashed Tebow a bit yesterday, too. Said he'd never be another Brett Favre.

LOL

[Young Drachma]

Tebowing

Think Planking

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Tebowing

Think Planking

lmao at the horse Tebowing

[Raiders Army]

That website is awesome.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Think Planking

Never realized this was a verb....

[terpkristin]

TaTebowing - Ugliest Tattoos - Funny Tattoos

/tk

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

If the Pittsburgh Power AFL team signs Tim Tebow within the next two years, I'm going to kill myself. I just wanted to get that out there right now.

Tebows' joining Pumpy's bowling league ......

[Grover]

http://video.adultswim.com/carl/carl...d-raiders.html

"You don't see anyone Whitehursting or Gabberting after a touchdown"

[Apathetic Lurker]

How dare that rascally Tebow beat a "real" QB led team !

[Ksyrup]

I didn't get to see any of the game since we had the Bengals game locally, but it sounds like they made the effort to put him in a number of college offense situations, and thanks to a poor run D, it paid off. He still can't survive passing under 50%, though, because you aren't going to run for 300 yards every week. Or even 150, for that matter. But I'm glad they at least made some effort to put him in situations he was comfortable with and could succeed at. And that they beat the Raiders.

[jbergey22]

The topsy turvy world of Tim Tebow.

[cuervo72]

Admittedly, that seemed like a pretty good attempt at having him run something he's well-suited for. Now, if they can do that against a team with a real coaching staff (or any semblance of organization) will be interesting. As has been pointed out though, there may not be any of those in the AFC West.

[RomaGoth]

Wouldn't the Broncos winning the AFC west be epic?

[JediKooter]

I watched most of the game yesterday and I have to say he needs a lot of work, but, he threw no picks (You listening Philip Rivers?) and ran through the swiss cheese Raiders run defense with no problems. He even took some good hits too. After finally getting to watch him play for more than just a couple of series, he does have an extremely slow delivery. I didn't realize how slow it was until I saw Palmer throw the ball. But hey, the kid won and that's all that matters.