Beware the Fat Man in Red (Game Over: Village Wins!)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think he's talking about the fact that people are basing votes on who was in thread at deadline.

I firmly disagree that this is meta-game.

Meta-game would be "so and so got a ping on off topic forum that their Inbox was full" or something like that.

Noting who is present and available to participate at any given point (particularly key points) is hardly meta-game.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I think he's talking about the fact that people are basing votes on who was in thread at deadline.

Oh, okay, yeah, that is meta-gamey.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I firmly disagree that this is meta-game.

Meta-game would be "so and so got a ping on off topic forum that their Inbox was full" or something like that.

Noting who is present and available to participate at any given point (particularly key points) is hardly meta-game.

If they post, yes. If you just see them in the forum, not so much.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If they post, yes. If you just see them in the forum, not so much.

If you see them looking at the thread - that's not meta-gamey. It's the online equivelent of having your eyes open (if you were playing the game in person) while you're still allowed to.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Hmm, curious questions upon re-readign the rules.

Questions for EagleFan:

1. Does the Fat Man have PM rights with his Elves?
2. Do we know if the Fat Man when he chooses a target and the Elf doing the killing, if he does it all himself or does the Elf in question have to submit a kill order?
3. Silly question, but do the Fat Man and Elves who the others are?
4. Do either of them know who the Sceptic is?
5. What happens if the Sceptic is attacked?
6. The rules state that the Sceptic "will find out who the evil team is". Is this information given to the Sceptic at the start of the game or does he learn it sometime during the course of the game, maybe at a certain time/day, or under certain conditions?

All good questions for discussion after the game is over.

Think of it like most normal WW games.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

If you see them looking at the thread - that's not meta-gamey. It's the online equivelent of having your eyes open (if you were playing the game in person) while you're still allowed to.

Except in the forum the name could show at the bottom just because someone walked away from their PC with the window still open. It's no real sign that the person is actually in thread. There have been plenty of games that I have been playing in where I opened a thread with intention of reading it and then got called away by RL in some manner and left the window open for later when I got back (which could be minutes or hours).

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Hmm? What do you mean?

That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I thought it was terrific, britrock.

CF was just disappointed he didn't step into the Narcizo role before you did.

yeah that's it. I'm jealous.
_I_ wanted to be Narcizo.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I firmly disagree that this is meta-game.

Meta-game would be "so and so got a ping on off topic forum that their Inbox was full" or something like that.

Noting who is present and available to participate at any given point (particularly key points) is hardly meta-game.

agreed. It has been proven time and again (at least to me) that such info doesn't amount to a crock of beans. Every time I think someone is wolfy just because I see them in thread and not posting, I am totally wrong. And usually it is about Chief

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I'm going to go with someone who has been abnormally quiet, and hasn't gotten any votes yet. And I do this even knowing that any time I vote for CF he becomes absolutely certain I'm a wolf. Bold move. I think it's good to get another good selection of candidates though.

VOTE CRIMSONFOX

yeah I feel sad I haven't voted for you yet. But I had to work most of the day yesterday and still unpacking from a big move. Probably shouldn't have joined but what the hey...

[CrimsonFox]

I'll go for the "hasn't checked in yet" vote

VOTE mauboy

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

That's because DT is my Bek!

[JAG]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

I think they played in one of the Cathedral games together.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JAG

I think they played in one of the Cathedral games together.

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

That I've never seen you and Abe in a game together before.

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

That's because DT is my Bek!

Kinda figured And saw that one coming

[Chief Rum]

Food for thought:

Most likely scenario: GE is the seer, as he says, and we got lucky with a BG block last night. Well, not even lucky--you have to assume the wolves go after GE, and the natural assumption is the BG would protect GE.

Could last night be as simple as that? The wolves knew the BG would protect GE. So they should have known going after him would have been pointless last night. So why didn't they kill someone else?

Or did they decide to attack GE anyway, like some kind of double blind, hoping the BG would overthink things and not protect GE, or that maybe the later reveal meant the BG would not know that GE was the seer?

Or did they choose not to attack at all? Or did they attack the Sceptic and it's like other WW games where the Sceptic just converts to a wolf?

Not having a kill last night seems a lot more complicated than it would seem at first view.

[GoldenEagle]

If they did convert the sceptic, I would lean toward it being DT. I thought his behavior was very strange yesterday with all of his weird vibes and getting weird vibes from people but not following up with them.

Either way, I have one more night at best.

[DaddyTorgo]

I still maintain that there's no way the wolves managed to change their vote in that amount of time after GE's reveal.

[JAG]

If GE's telling the truth, it's also possible they gambled that the BG wasn't around to change the protection order.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

If they did convert the sceptic, I would lean toward it being DT. I thought his behavior was very strange yesterday with all of his weird vibes and getting weird vibes from people but not following up with them.

Either way, I have one more night at best.

weird vibes? someone asked me a question jokingly (i thought) and i responded with what i figured everyone would get was a jokingly "certain" type answer.

[GoldenEagle]

And its standard night 1 WW play for the BG to guard himself. I timed my reveal as late as possible to try to protect myself a bit. Maybe the wolves picked a random person and there was no kill.

Or the BG got lucky and guarded the elf. It looks like wolves had a choice of whether the Fat Man in Red would kill on the even or odd night.

[britrock88]

time post voter votee #
22:57 159 Abe mauboy 1
23:21 168 brit DT 1
09:14 185 DT brit 1
09:26 188 Autumn CF 1
11:55 211 CF mauboy 2

1 mauboy - Abe (159), CF (211)
1 DT - britrock (168)
1 britrock - DT (185)
1 CF - Autumn (188)

[Abe Sargent]

DT, you and I have been in lots of games together, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

DT, you and I have been in lots of games together, right?

A fair number I'd say. More than 1 or 2, that's for sure.

[DaddyTorgo]

Cathedral I think someone said...probably the X-Men games too at least, right? Not to mention the games you ran...and probably a bunch more that I don't even remember.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Cathedral I think someone said...probably the X-Men games too at least, right? Not to mention the games you ran...and probably a bunch more that I don't even remember.

sure, sure. Just nothing in my memory. There might have been a game I've played with both of you but really this is the most active I've ever seen you, DT. And actually the least Active I think I've ever seen JAG.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

sure, sure. Just nothing in my memory. There might have been a game I've played with both of you but really this is the most active I've ever seen you, DT. And actually the least Active I think I've ever seen JAG.

okay never mind about JAG. He just seemed quiet but has 17 posts. Seems like less. Maybe I just lost them in all the Abe sigs filling the page

[Abe Sargent]

That's because JAG had like a mega seven dola or something a yesterday hat inflates his posts, whereas you and I make crap posts with no meanign at all

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

That's because JAG had like a mega seven dola or something a yesterday hat inflates his posts, whereas you and I make crap posts with no meanign at all

au contrere...that 70's show theme song is NOT a crap post!

(Hello wisconsin!)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

sure, sure. Just nothing in my memory. There might have been a game I've played with both of you but really this is the most active I've ever seen you, DT. And actually the least Active I think I've ever seen JAG.

I won't argue that. Been away a long time, maybe my batteries are recharged. Or maybe in a game without some of the traditional "big talkers" I'm trying to fill the void.

[britrock88]

mauboy still hasn't checked in... but I'm inclined to think that VVs are the type most likely to forget to show up.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by britrock88

mauboy still hasn't checked in... but I'm inclined to think that VVs are the type most likely to forget to show up.

What's a VV?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

I won't argue that. Been away a long time, maybe my batteries are recharged. Or maybe in a game without some of the traditional "big talkers" I'm trying to fill the void.

Yeah, no hoops or Danny - gotta make that up somewhere ya know?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

What's a VV?

vanilla villager

and i agree

[Autumn]

Checking in, probably out for most of the afternoon, then back later. I agree with JAG who said the wolves probably hoped the BG wasn't around at the end. So they would have gone after GE. That means something but I'm not sure what.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

okay never mind about JAG. He just seemed quiet but has 17 posts. Seems like less. Maybe I just lost them in all the Abe sigs filling the page

I feel like I've been quiet even though I'm reading and thinking about the game. What are your thoughts on folks thus far CF?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Checking in, probably out for most of the afternoon, then back later. I agree with JAG who said the wolves probably hoped the BG wasn't around at the end. So they would have gone after GE. That means something but I'm not sure what.

Interesting.

[DaddyTorgo]

GE held his reveal perfectly late. I don't buy that the wolves had time to redirect their night kill towards him AND the BG had the chance to redirect his block.

In fact, I'd bet my vanilla-villager ass on it.

And if they did, that means that there's a very very small list of people who could be BG or a wolf, and that list is me, Abe, and JAG.

So if you really buy that line of reasoning (by others) your vote should be on one of those three names. If not, then your vote shouldn't be on them.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

vanilla villager

and i agree

I thought it was something veteran and I was racking my brain as to what the pe vet word was. Vulcan Vetrean? Viper Veteran? Victorious Veteran?

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

GE held his reveal perfectly late. I don't buy that the wolves had time to redirect their night kill towards him AND the BG had the chance to redirect his block.

In fact, I'd bet my vanilla-villager ass on it.

And if they did, that means that there's a very very small list of people who could be BG or a wolf, and that list is me, Abe, and JAG.

So if you really buy that line of reasoning (by others) your vote should be on one of those three names. If not, then your vote shouldn't be on them.

Yeah, I think if the wolves were around, they would have gone after GE, no question. So either they did htat, and got blocked, which suggests a BG was around, or they were not around and ... got blocked randomly? Or got slutted. I have to go back and read this actually, I don't know if they get to pick who does the kill.

[Autumn]

All right, so they get to choose, so it could have been the elf last night. So it could be a block, a wolf-guard, or a forgotten order. Therefore the bodyguard may very well have a likely wolf, which could help us immensely eventually.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by britrock88

To keep the pressure on a big player yesterday...

vote DaddyTorgo

Can you explain why you voted this way?

[JAG]

Autumn, we also can't discount a possible sceptic conversion. EagleFan said we can assume regular type WW rules so that could be a possibility though it's not spelled out. Kind of a lot of possible options for what happened.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JAG

I feel like I've been quiet even though I'm reading and thinking about the game. What are your thoughts on folks thus far CF?

I tend to look at how people post and what I'm used to.
JAg is more quiet than usual and less analytical. GE is more talkative and questioning this game than ever before . DT is definitely more active than usual. Zinto is REALLY quiet although he used to be really quiet. So I'm guessing GE is less quiet as he is excited to be seer.


As for normal people, Abe seems to be acting like Abe. Autumn normally overanalyzes every move. mauboy even is typically quiet, even if he is active/paying attention. brit I'm not sure. HAven't played enough with him. Although he's been a bit quiet today. He is participating with the vote tracking. Still he seems like he's been fairly active in all games both wolf and villager.

And Chief, well, I've never been able to figure out Chief.

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by JAG

Autumn, we also can't discount a possible sceptic conversion. EagleFan said we can assume regular type WW rules so that could be a possibility though it's not spelled out. Kind of a lot of possible options for what happened.

I'd be very surprised if that was a possibility. I don't think that's standard enough that a mod would likely include it without hinting at it, and it would be way too powerful for a game this size. So while I guess I can agree in theory that it's not ruled out, I'm not going to really consider it. But I agree that there's lots of possibilities. I know from running games that the village often runs in circles making up theories about some stupid mistake, so we do want to be careful not to do that. It would be nice if it led to more info though in the end, if it was elf-slutting (that is the new term I will use for this).

[JAG]

Seems like a fair assessment of folks, though some of what you're seeing with differences might be attributed to differences in schedule or motivation level. Plus we're five or so months removed from a game so it's hard to say what usual is for people now. But still, you have to give yourself something to work with or you're just picking blindly.

I've been trying to analyze things but I haven't really gathered anything that useful. Part of my reluctance has been if I assume GE = good, then there's a good bit to work with as far as a few cleared players, peoe who have voted for villagers vs. unknowns, but I'm worried about basing analysis off that assumption because if it's wrong, then the analysis could be dangerously misleading.

So really, all I know at this point is Simbo was good, which makes you look a bit worse for introducing him D1 (and DT to a lesser degree) and (from my perspective) Britrock is the only uncleared who voted for GE, which potentially looks bad for one of them, though that's a flimsy sort of case.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

I tend to look at how people post and what I'm used to.
JAg is more quiet than usual and less analytical. GE is more talkative and questioning this game than ever before . DT is definitely more active than usual. Zinto is REALLY quiet although he used to be really quiet. So I'm guessing GE is less quiet as he is excited to be seer.


As for normal people, Abe seems to be acting like Abe. Autumn normally overanalyzes every move. mauboy even is typically quiet, even if he is active/paying attention. brit I'm not sure. HAven't played enough with him. Although he's been a bit quiet today. He is participating with the vote tracking. Still he seems like he's been fairly active in all games both wolf and villager.

And Chief, well, I've never been able to figure out Chief.

Whoo-hoo, got you all fooled don't I?

[JAG]

Seems that if Britrick was a wolf, pushing a villager to 3 where he did D1 would be somewhat bold and unusual, unless another wolf was on the block and he was trying to protect him, which would make Autumn look worse (DT also, but then they've voted for each other to start the day, so it would be a little unusual).

[Zinto]

Well I am finally here for the day. If GE is the seer then it is really unfortunate that he was forced to reveal Day One.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by JAG

Can you explain why you voted this way?

Well, one reason was to have him keep talking. What I noticed yesterday wasn't much, but it was that he was around and active at the deadline. I could probably explain that away entirely by recognizing that he was a lynch candidate. He also moved his vote to save GE after his reveal, but who wouldn't, villager or wolf, if it was a last-minute thing where it's known that you're there?

In essence, I don't have much more than a gut feeling. I'm certainly not wedded to this vote, either. But I get stronger subjective feelings than objective evidence in WW.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

brit I'm not sure. HAven't played enough with him. Although he's been a bit quiet today. He is participating with the vote tracking. Still he seems like he's been fairly active in all games both wolf and villager.

This is my first WW game with a 9-to-5, so I'm stopping by to count votes to show that I'm keeping up. Posting about suspicions, planning, etc. takes more time and thought, so I'll save it for evening hours.