NFL Week 7

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, I think you get an inordinate amount of crap around here but ... this is just downright silly.

I mean it's "I don't believe you could pass a piss test at work" sort of fucking stupid shit.

Ehh... both guys are overstating their case when Troy says stuff like

Originally Posted by TroyF

The Chiefs do not belong there. This is not a team that can compete with the elite. You can take that as an insult and cry about how your favorite team is getting put down on a bulliten board or you can fight back and say how you think this team is going to hang with better football teams. (I'll likely disagree with you, but I'd be interested to hear it none the less)

Did I have KC well behind Denver and Seattle coming into (and leaving) the day? Yes. Do I think KC has a decent chance to beat either of them, or any of the other top 10 teams on a given day? Yes.

And fwiw, "Elite" seems to be the word of choice that gets thrown around all the time, but its done way too liberally and it needs to stop being the benchmark. Denver has an elite offense, KC has an elite pair of defensive ends, the 2007 Pats were an elite team, etc. There is no elite team in the NFL right now, and Carmen's shown how little that matters come playoff time anyway.

Originally Posted by TroyF

1) I know I've said this 600 times and it doesn't matter because they lost, but Denver was installed as a Super Bowl favorite because they were the best team in the AFC, not just the home field advantage. They lost, right? Yeah, the refs gave the Ravens a TD where there were multiple pass interference penalties on the same play and then the FS made a bonehead play.

2) Denver is a FAR better team this year. Not slightly better, far better.

Prove it. You're allowing over 28 points per game, you lost to the only team you've played that looks to be a playoff lock, and your best win is over a 4-3 Dallas team whose best win is against who, St. Louis? Either Denver was one of the Super Bowl favorites last year or they weren't - I'd have had them 5th going into the playoffs behind NE/Seattle/SF/GB - but for all the improvement the offense has shown on what was already a high level I'd say the defense has fallen off by just as much. You can claim it'll all be better when Von Miller, Champ Bailey, Wesley Woodyard, Robert Ayers are back, but as we saw tonight with the first two just having them on the field doesn't cure things.

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

On these kickoffs where they end up kicking from the 50, why doesn't the team try kicking it high and pinning the opponent deeper than the 20?

I don't understand that or why they just don't go for an onsides kick. The chance of recovery would seem to be worth the 15-20 yard difference in field position between a failed one and booting the ball past the end zone.

Originally Posted by Matthean

ESPN had an article about how Saban's physical nature of his system essentially uses players up far more quickly and thus why players from there get injured more, etc.

You remember where that article was? I'd be interested in reading it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'd be interested in reading it.

I just read that one earlier today, almost never found it again. But here ya go

Schefter's Blitz - Alabama players come with mileage - ESPN

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

On these kickoffs where they end up kicking from the 50, why doesn't the team try kicking it high and pinning the opponent deeper than the 20?

I've been waiting for several years for a single coach to figure this out.

[Julio Riddols]

Put me in touch with the Jags. I have the solution.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Cushing broke his leg and tore his LCL-out the rest of the season.

Another cut block, another torn ligament in his knee.

NFL, I am begging you, OUTLAW BLOCKING BELOW THE KNEES!

[TRO]

Originally Posted by TroyF

3) AS I said in an earlier post, it's not just the point spreads, it's when they happen. The Chiefs have had a very real shot to lose 5 of their 7 games despite the point spread. The Broncos have had 5 of their 6 first games over with 10 minutes left in the fourth. There is a difference between the two teams.

I'll take the opportunity while I can...

To use your scenario, Denver doesn't deserve any credit for being back in this game at the end. They were down 19 early in the 4th quarter. So we can say that 6 of their first 7 were now over with 10 minutes left in the 4th.

In all seriousness, the only point spread that REALLY matters is the one at the end of the game. That is the one you get a win or loss awarded for.

There is a difference between the two teams, one is 7-0 and the other is 6-1.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Galaril

So basically the Broncos are the 1981 San Diego Chargers all offense and no pass defense. Didn't work 30 years and am pretty sure it still don't.

See Patriots 2007-present

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Denver has a +108 scoring difference. KC has a +88 scoring difference. The kicker being Denver has done it in one less game. If Denver beats the Colts, there will be no comparison.

The difference is 13 points. I checked.

And you're correct that there's no comparison. Denver lost a game.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Another cut block, another torn ligament in his knee.

NFL, I am begging you, OUTLAW BLOCKING BELOW THE KNEES!

It absolutely sucks, but what are you supposed to do there as a RB trying to take on a 250lb LB coming at you with a running start of 5-10 yards? Brace yourself to hopefully not get completely flattened?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

See Patriots 2007-present

Well, the Patriots HAD a pass defense until the last week or so, now they are down their best D-Lineman (Wilfork), best LB (Mayo), best DB (Talib), and another starting D-Lineman (Kelly). Those first two were also their defensive captains.

That is bad news for the Pats with the offense being so inconsistent.

[jeff061]

Pat's didn't have a pass defense before this year.

I'm not quite ready to write the Broncos off as quickly as some. Pats were one play away from a bowl champsionship twice during that span. I know it's easy to write it off at the 0-fer, but it's really not that black and white.

[spleen1015]

Dan Patrick cracked me up with his opening monologue today. He said the Broncos aren't the SB favorite in teh AFC anymore. WTF? They had one bad game. When was the last time a SB champ went undefeated?

The Broncos will beat the Chiefs 56-10 and everyone will love them again and forget about last night.

[Logan]

I enjoyed the part of the pre-game telecast last night where the sideline reporter mentioned Von Miller's PED/attempt to manipulate the testing 6 game suspension, and in the next sentence reported how Miller said he gained 10-12 lbs of muscle during his suspension without any loss of his speed.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Dan Patrick cracked me up with his opening monologue today. He said the Broncos aren't the SB favorite in teh AFC anymore. WTF? They had one bad game. When was the last time a SB champ went undefeated?

The Broncos will beat the Chiefs 56-10 and everyone will love them again and forget about last night.

I didn't hear Patricks monologue, but the Colts have beated SF, Seattle, and Denver. I don't think it's a stretch to call them the favorite in the AFC.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by TroyF

You keep bringing up Denver against top teams. It's not like Denver got shelled by any of those teams and they did shell one of them, the same team that beat em in the playoffs.

To quote you, "it's not just the point spreads, it's when they happen."

Against the three best teams they played last year, Houston was up 31-11, Atlanta was up 27-7 and New England was up 31-7. Against the best team they played this year, the Colts were up 36-17.

For my money, the best four quarterbacks over the past 10+ years have been Manning, Brady, Rodgers and Brees. They've won an impressive 5 Super Bowls in the past ten years and lost in the finals of three others. There is no question that having one of them gives you a better shot at winning than anything else and I would probably take them against the field in any given year to win it all. But that still leaves a large group of quarterbacks who have either won or made the Super Bowl in that time span, including Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Delhomme, Rex Grossman, Donovan McNabb, Joe Flacco, Eli Manning, Kurt Warner, Colin Kaepernick and Ben Roethlisberger. A lot of good quarterbacks in that group but hardly a murderer's row and I would comfortably put Alex Smith's play (and his 26-5-1 record) the past 2-3 years up against any of them.

And last time I checked, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer each had as many Super Bowl rings as Peyton Manning.

I'm not saying that the Chiefs should be Super Bowl favorites and there are probably at least five or so teams I would pick before them. But I think they are amongst a group of 10 or so teams that I would give a shot to. And I think that being the only 7-0 team at least earns them a right to be in the discussion, even without an "elite" quarterback and without being an "elite" team, which recent history has proven are not prerequisites for making or winning the Super Bowl.

[Carman Bulldog]

DOLA: If Wes Welker was able to make catches in 2011 the way he did last night, the Patriots would have had another Super Bowl.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

It absolutely sucks, but what are you supposed to do there as a RB trying to take on a 250lb LB coming at you with a running start of 5-10 yards? Brace yourself to hopefully not get completely flattened?

Pick a target somewhere below the neck but above the knee?

[TRO]

Regarding the blocking below the knees...

You can't block above the knee/below the waist as that is essentially a tackle and you can't tackle a guy without the ball.

And if you continue with that line of thought, isn't blocking below the knees also a tackle? And thus, shouldn't it already be outlawed?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TRO

Regarding the blocking below the knees...

You can't block above the knee/below the waist as that is essentially a tackle and you can't tackle a guy without the ball.

And if you continue with that line of thought, isn't blocking below the knees also a tackle? And thus, shouldn't it already be outlawed?

Except that isn't the rule. It's even specifically allowed in the NFL rule book as this article detailed

"A chop block is is a block in which one offensive player (designated as A1 for the purposes of this rule) blocks a defensive player in the area of the thigh or lower while another offensive player (A2) engages that same defensive player above the waist."

These are legal on running plays, with certain restrictions. They are illegal on passing plays. On running plays, it's legal to chop block when A1 and A2 are lined up no more than one spot away from each other

[Thomkal]

And another one bites the dust...

Sam Bradford of St. Louis Rams suffers torn ACL, source says - ESPN

That leaves Kelln Clemens as the only other QB on the Rams roster. Sounds like a good place for the triumphant return of Tyler Thigpen to the NFL...

Okay maybe not.

[Honolulu_Blue]

A pretty rough week injury-wise.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

And another one bites the dust...

Sam Bradford of St. Louis Rams suffers torn ACL, source says - ESPN

That leaves Kelln Clemens as the only other QB on the Rams roster. Sounds like a good place for the triumphant return of Tyler Thigpen to the NFL...

Okay maybe not.

TIMMAY

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Dan Patrick cracked me up with his opening monologue today. He said the Broncos aren't the SB favorite in teh AFC anymore. WTF? They had one bad game. When was the last time a SB champ went undefeated?

The Broncos will beat the Chiefs 56-10 and everyone will love them again and forget about last night.

Im not saying the Broncos wont beat the Chiefs or anyone else by a large margin on any given day but it does tell that the Broncos like everyone else can have an off day as well which makes them beatable in a 1 game playoff scenario.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by TroyF

No, it isn't silly. Hell, it's what MOST of the public and experts think. Barnwell believes the Chiefs cannot compete against good teams. There are tons of other experts who believe the same thing. I'm sure you can find a few who will say the Chiefs are for real, but you won't find the majority.

5 of the 6 Broncos games have been OVER with 10 minutes left in the fourth quarter. The one that wasn't was a game where they were down 5 starters on defense. The Chiefs? 5 of their 7 wins have come down to the final 3 minutes of the game. As you point out, this is against bad competition.
You should feel good about what they are doing. You should be in front of your TV every week cheering like hell for your team. But this is not sustainable. So, silly or not, no, I don't believe the Chiefs are "cream of the crop" or elite right now.

The chiefs play very good defense in a league that seems to have forgotten how to play defense. Of course they are an elite team. Alex Smith fits intt the mix perfectly. Ball control QB with a great defense usually gives good results. Simply because they were 2-14 last year doesnt mean they cant be elite this year. They have A LOT of defensive talent.

The Broncos with all of their elite defensive talent has some things to work out on that end of the ball. You dont win in the playoffs giving up 30+ points per game. How many of the 5 highest scoring teams of all time have actually won a super bowl?

[Suicane75]

Yes, it is true that on any given day, a team could lose.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Reggie Wayne of Indianapolis Colts out for season - ESPN

[Qwikshot]

Looks like Reggie Wayne and Doug Martin are done for the year too.

[Suicane75]

In the long run, the Broncos probably come out on the better end of last nights game.

[Julio Riddols]

I feel like the Broncos beat themselves last night. You don't go into a game with the intention of establishing the run when you have Peyton Manning and 4 outstanding WR. There's no way a team can cover all of them. You put the RB in to chip block the best pass rusher (Mathis) and slip into the flat. That is the only thing a RB should be used for when you have passing weapons of that caliber. Now if the other team can stop that, congrats to them.

Then you have the multitude of incredibly stupid defensive penalties.. If I were a coach, any personal foul that was legitimately called against one of my guys would result in him being benched for the rest of the half, if not the game. Once a guy shows he has lost his cool, he is useless. Not only has he cost us field position and potentially points, but he also costs us time and energy from the extra plays incurred from his stupidity.

[Julio Riddols]

Also, WTF is up with that hipster grandpa Irsay? Dude is a total nutter.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I feel like the Broncos beat themselves last night. You don't go into a game with the intention of establishing the run when you have Peyton Manning and 4 outstanding WR. There's no way a team can cover all of them. You put the RB in to chip block the best pass rusher (Mathis) and slip into the flat. That is the only thing a RB should be used for when you have passing weapons of that caliber. Now if the other team can stop that, congrats to them.

Then you have the multitude of incredibly stupid defensive penalties.. If I were a coach, any personal foul that was legitimately called against one of my guys would result in him being benched for the rest of the half, if not the game. Once a guy shows he has lost his cool, he is useless. Not only has he cost us field position and potentially points, but he also costs us time and energy from the extra plays incurred from his stupidity.

The Colts gameplan was to allow Denver to run. The problem was the Colts safetys were playing so well and Moreno wasnt breaking any tackles. I agree that they stuck with the run too long but it really should have been there for them with how the Colts were playing.

[Carman Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

but KC is definitely second and definitely worthy of being labeled an elite team at this point and it's not even an argument.

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Okay, I think you get an inordinate amount of crap around here but ... this is just downright silly.

I mean it's "I don't believe you could pass a piss test at work" sort of fucking stupid shit.

I'm still not even sure what "elite" means (nor what is has to do with winning the Super Bowl) but from what the media tells me, Eli Manning is it. Most people seem to throw it around arbitrarily. Merriam-Webster online dictionary defines it as "the best of a class."

The last time I checked, the primary method for determining the top regular season team is their record. Not strength of schedule, not net points, not top quarterback or most impressive roster on paper.

By that standard, the best of a class (elite if you will?) by the measurement standard used by the NFL to determine the top regular season team so far this season, is... the Kansas City Chiefs!?

Now apparently, MBBF's assertion about the Chiefs being elite was couldn't "pass a piss test at work sort of fucking stupid shit" so perhaps MBBF had some help from Von Miller in cheating the test and the fine folks at the NFL and Websters should investigate.

#confused

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Julio Riddols

I feel like the Broncos beat themselves last night. You don't go into a game with the intention of establishing the run when you have Peyton Manning and 4 outstanding WR. There's no way a team can cover all of them. You put the RB in to chip block the best pass rusher (Mathis) and slip into the flat. That is the only thing a RB should be used for when you have passing weapons of that caliber. Now if the other team can stop that, congrats to them.

If I'm the Chiefs, I'm hoping and praying that the Broncos use this line of thought. KC's defensive line will have a field day if the Broncos don't keep them honest by trying to run the ball at least 35-40% of the time.

Unfortunately, I think the Broncos and Manning are smarter than this.

[spleen1015]

Ugh. Reggie Wayne.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

He's either hiding an injury or age is catching up to him.

Or he has really bad WRs.

I think at this point Brady has really very little confidence in them running the correct routes and if they happened to actually be where they are suppose to be they seem to struggle with catching. Brady just hasnt looked comfortable all year and I think he just doesnt trust his weapons at all.


Aaron Dobson grades out as Pro Football Focus's worst WR. Thompkins is also graded negatively.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

If I'm the Chiefs, I'm hoping and praying that the Broncos use this line of thought. KC's defensive line will have a field day if the Broncos don't keep them honest by trying to run the ball at least 35-40% of the time.

Unfortunately, I think the Broncos and Manning are smarter than this.

It was clear last night that the Broncos do have an achilles heel on offense and it is their tackles who were just beat play after play. They will have to make adjustments now as this flaw was FINALLY exploited. Id expect them to throw some quicker passes and have Julius chip more often but last night certainly had to be a wake up call for Denver.

Plus they played like complete dumbasses. Stupid penalty after stupid penalty. The loss was probably a blessing in disguise for them.

[BillJasper]

Sucks to see so many good players go down.

[Neuqua]

Briggs out about 6 weeks.

Cutler out about 4 weeks.

Me checking out of season.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I just read that one earlier today, almost never found it again. But here ya go

Schefter's Blitz - Alabama players come with mileage - ESPN

Thanks (and I'm sure Les Miles and Gus Malzahn aren't sad about seeing that article either!) I'd love to see something more comprehensive, but it's probably all too small of a sample size to draw any meaningful conclusions. (And just today, it was announced Vinny Sunseri has a torn ACL.)

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Or he has really bad WRs.

I think at this point Brady has really very little confidence in them running the correct routes and if they happened to actually be where they are suppose to be they seem to struggle with catching. Brady just hasnt looked comfortable all year and I think he just doesnt trust his weapons at all.

Aaron Schatz at FO said it best - There's no route option that ends with the receiver 5 yards out of bounds. No one up here is absolving the receivers of responsibility, but putting it all on them like all the announcers and national media are doing is equally as wrong.

[Logan]

Bill Belichick admits he was 'wrong' in Patriots game - NFL.com

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Or he has really bad WRs.

I think at this point Brady has really very little confidence in them running the correct routes and if they happened to actually be where they are suppose to be they seem to struggle with catching. Brady just hasnt looked comfortable all year and I think he just doesnt trust his weapons at all.


Aaron Dobson grades out as Pro Football Focus's worst WR. Thompkins is also graded negatively.

Thompkins is lucky he hasn't been broken in half the number of times Brady's thrown behind him. Not saying it's all Brady's fault but a number of his throws have been absolutely terrible. My money's on a hand or shoulder injury.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Logan

Bill Belichick admits he was 'wrong' in Patriots game - NFL.com

On the flip side, the NFL wasn't exactly 100% clear on this topic.

Originally Posted by ESPNBoston

“You can’t push from the second level, and I didn’t think we did that,” Belichick said. “They eliminated the pushing on the second level.”

But any pushing, at any level, is not allowed. So from a bottom-line perspective, Belichick didn’t fully understand the rule to coach his players appropriately, which is surprising.

At the same time, it takes only a Google search to understand why there might be some misunderstanding about the rule. The league’s own website, NFL.com, had explained the rule this way for the past six weeks: “Team B players not on the line of scrimmage at the snap cannot push players on the line of scrimmage into the offensive formation.”

An accompanying video had NFL vice president of officiating Dean Blandino saying, “They cannot push from the second level, the down linemen into the offensive formation. … These techniques are dangerous, pushing into the offensive formation, and that’s why we want to get them out of the game.”

But within two hours of the conclusion of the Patriots-Jets game, the NFL.com article explaining the rule had been altered, the league perhaps sensing that there would be a lot more discussion about Rule 9, Section 1, Article 3 following Sunday’s controversial call.

[cuervo72]

I AM SHOCKED

Patriots Had Cheated Before On FGs; Jets Warned Officials

[jeff061]

Jets game was all Brady stinking, not going to put any blame on the receivers. They were getting open and he was missing them.

[jeff061]

I think using "cheating" on this one is a bit of a stretch. But whatever floats the haters boat.

[cuervo72]

Maybe, but I think they were perfectly aware of the rule and just figured they'd never get called on it.

[Danny]

I agree, its cheating in the same way offensive lineman cheat by holding on every play. Meaning it is not. No problem with the call though.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Briggs out about 6 weeks.

Cutler out about 4 weeks.

Me checking out of season.

With so many expiring contracts, (plus Peppers inevitably getting released) Emery at least gets to go empty cupboard on defense next year. He did a pretty fair job building a respectable o-line in 1 season, maybe he can do the same for...well, an entire defense.

But, yes. Bears are done this year.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

With so many expiring contracts, (plus Peppers inevitably getting released) Emery at least gets to go empty cupboard on defense next year. He did a pretty fair job building a respectable o-line in 1 season, maybe he can do the same for...well, an entire defense.

But, yes. Bears are done this year.

Just had the same discussion with a few buddies. You figure they'll still tag Cutler, and the offensive pieces are actually in pretty good shape for next season.

But I'd imagine the defense is going to be completely revamped next year. Peppers isn't going to be worth keeping around at his cap number. Tillman? Melton? May be silly of me but I am thus far a fan of the Emery/Trestman regime and want to see how next summer plays out.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Aaron Schatz at FO said it best - There's no route option that ends with the receiver 5 yards out of bounds. No one up here is absolving the receivers of responsibility, but putting it all on them like all the announcers and national media are doing is equally as wrong.

Well it would seem strange that a first ballot HOF'er and one of the most accurate qbs to ever play the game suddenly cant hit a target within 5 yards.

Timing off, WRs not running where he expects them would make more sense to me rather than thinking suddenly Brady cant come within 5 yards of a WR target on some plays.