Youth Sports Parents are Awful People #10,783

[albionmoonlight]

One drunk idiot with a dad who never loved him punching the ump is one thing. That's an isolated thing that just going to happen sometimes.

The disturbing part is all the parents yelling at the 72-year-old man lying on the ground with a broken jaw because "he deserved it."

People need to chill the heck out.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Because I live in Florida, I have to clarify whether things are normal or just normal for Florida.

I was listening to one of those morning shock jock sort of shows. The question of the day was "Is It Okay To Gamble on Youth Travel Sports?"

As I listened to the show, the majority of callers said it absolutely goes on and it is a regular thing between parents on the travel baseball circuit. A few callers said they have bet as much as $1000 on U12 and under travel baseball games. I am not a gambler in general. I might make 1-2 bets a year on sports and if I do, the prize is usually something food related or supposedly something embarrassing. Nobody would be seeking me out to bet on these games. I have not seen anything to suggest that people around me are gambling on games that my son has played in but I also acknowledge I would not have any clue what that would look like if they were. While I take the show and the callers with a grain of salt, I do wonder if incidents like this are fueled not just by alcohol (hoo boy the alcohol at youth sporting events is a thing!), but also having some having money riding on the game.

I have seen this is really big with youth Football in Florida, to a disturbing level and it is straight out in the open too.

[Atocep]

Betting on youth sports is a new one for me

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

One drunk idiot with a dad who never loved him punching the ump is one thing. That's an isolated thing that just going to happen sometimes.

The disturbing part is all the parents yelling at the 72-year-old man lying on the ground with a broken jaw because "he deserved it."

People need to chill the heck out.

Said the same thing to my wife. Those parents should have been detaining him, not defending him.

As for the gambling I love betting sports and would never think to bet on youth sports. Base on the way he reacted it wouldn't surprise me. The way some people act when a player blows a game they had money on is repulsive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have seen this is really big with youth Football in Florida, to a disturbing level and it is straight out in the open too.

This definitely ain't new. This link is from 2011

ESPN investigation finds gambling in South Florida youth football league

[flere-imsaho]

Gambling's a new one to me, too. The money part generally is the fact that the parents are typically paying a lot for their kid's participation in a travel league and feel they're entitled to pro-level professionalism from the officiating crew.

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

The main competitive youth soccer league here is really struggling for refs. It's probably one of the better setups for refs, in that it's compact enough that there isn't a ton of travel, the pay is decent, the league is well-organized, and the league does a decent job of having the refs' backs.

The word I'm hearing from folks I know who officiate is that the pandemic convinced a lot of the old guys to hang it up for good, and the newer people they managed to capture usually last 1 season at most before the spectator abuse convinces them they want to spend their weekends (and some weekdays) differently.

If this league is having these problems, I can't imagine what some leagues with more difficult situations (travel, pay, lack of support) are doing about officials.

My 10-year-old went to a tournament a couple of weekends ago and they only had 1 ref per game, even at the higher ages. Just not enough refs available.

With the spring season now over, I caught up with my boys' coach before one of the final games and he said the above league this season had dozens of games abandoned because refs weren't available. Luckily neither of my boys' teams had a game impacted (though many were rescheduled due to the super wet spring we had).

You talk to assignors around here and most are pretty much out of ideas.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

This definitely ain't new. This link is from 2011

ESPN investigation finds gambling in South Florida youth football league

Yeah, as I read this I could match the scenes described in the article to scenes I have observed at games.

We all know the jokes of NFL players taking paycuts from their college days. I didn't realize that some may be taking cuts from their PAL days.

[Atocep]

This is a new one for me as well. Shoving is a weird way to describe what was done. He was grabbing the kids hands during the hand shake line, twisting, and pulling their wrist back.

Police sergeant accused of shoving kids is relieved of duty in Houston

Prospect Baseball coach Victor Torres told the Chronicle Tuesday that his team's players and parents were not aware what had happened until they saw the Scorpions' second game on Saturday, which Wendt was allegedly thrown out of for heckling the opposing team's first baseman.

"He even told him that he was going to meet him in the parking lot."

After being ejected from the game, Torres said, Wendt identified himself as a "cop" repeatedly.

THIS WAS 9U WTF

[RainMaker]

Probably could have figured out he was a cop just by the video.

[miami_fan]

No kidding around: Renowned surgeon James Andrews stresses seriousness of youth sports injuries | High School Sports | theadvocate.com

This is one of the things I have been trying to balance with my youngest. On one hand, I say hey injuries happen and he is not the type to just sit in the house so he might as well participate in the organized youth sports complex. On the other hand, I wouldn't wish all of my aches and pains etc. on anybody especially my own flesh and blood.

[Atocep]

A few years ago they were looking at pitch counts for Washington state high school baseball and one of the high school coaches I know was telling me there was a lot of push back from the coaches. The particular coach I know was using data and recommendations from Dodgers doctors and trainers to push for strict pitch counts. He got an email from one of the coaches defending his stance explaining he thought the pitch counts were too strict but he's all for protecting the kids and pointed out that's he's ONLY had 2 kids that have needed TJ.

Anyway, the pitch counts more or less failed. They ended up passing a rule that requires a number of days rest based on pitches throws but the max for a start is 120. So they were able to pat themselves on the back for a rule to protect arms that really didn't do much of anything.

[Atocep]

Based on my personal experience as a coach and parent of a kid that did travel ball it's the high school coaches and regular select level and local travel teams that are the problems. Once you hit the higher levels of travel play I saw much stricter pitch counts and awareness of abuse.

Local tournaments and leagues can be awful on arms though and high school coaches give zero fucks. That kid the high school coach abused is probably going to blow his arm out in college and you can just blame the college for not knowing what they're doing.

[Ksyrup]

My two girls have had more serious injuries and/or procedures/surgeries before they were 21 than I've had in my life. Only one would I blame on a coach, though - although that happened to be a college coach. My older daughter now has 4 permanent scars on her shins as a reminder of her college softball experience.

My other daughter has had plica band surgery, eye surgery, 4 concussions, a broken nose, broke the same bone in her foot 3 times, and various "dead arm" periods. That's from 2 sports (softball and basketball), but she only played travel ball until about 13 years old and is finished with sports now that she graduated high school.

[HerRealName]

My pitching ability peaked my Freshman year but my coach threw my arm off - especially my Senior year. He brought me in most every game that season to throw 2 - 3 innings. My right shoulder falls apart if I do anything more strenuous than a plank. It's one of the only things holding me back from being a male model.

[whomario]

Sometimes they are also bloody stupid.

So my cousins kid is 14 and just transfered to a soccer club playing in the highest possible league in Germany in the Age group (14/15), competing against the likes of Borussia Dortmund and other youth team of Bundesliga clubs. Now he is usually a striker but in training camp also played Left Back as the starting Left Back got injured quite badly. He impressed and is now starting when the 14 year olds rarely do (often playing for the reserve squad even in a lower league). What does my cousin and her parents do ? Bitch about it with my cousin even complaining to the coach.

My other cousin (her brother) and me watched one of the games last week and actually know a bit about stuff (we both played to a decently high level and he coaches still) and were like: "Are you crazy ? He's looking really, really good at a high level of competion in a position that most teams struggle A LOT to fill. (Lots fewer left footed players, much less those able to play well offensively and defensively). And he doesn't mind contrary to your projections, he's just happy to play against freaking Borussia Dortmund and shit. There's bloody Scouts at every game of those clubs."

He just might (!) have a legit shot at making a freaking career out of playing the sport he loves. And she's bitching to his coach.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Based on my personal experience as a coach and parent of a kid that did travel ball it's the high school coaches and regular select level and local travel teams that are the problems. Once you hit the higher levels of travel play I saw much stricter pitch counts and awareness of abuse.

Local tournaments and leagues can be awful on arms though and high school coaches give zero fucks. That kid the high school coach abused is probably going to blow his arm out in college and you can just blame the college for not knowing what they're doing.

That's my experience. The higher level travel teams I was on had strict rules on pitch/inning counts even back in the day. The teams were meant to get kids noticed by colleges or even the pros, so building a reputation for blowing out elbows hurts efforts to recruit good talent.

High school was a different story. They absolutely did not care. I remember starting a game and throwing like 5 innings, then finishing the last 2 innings of the doubleheader. Then the next day I came on in like the 2nd inning when our starter sprained his ankle. Probably threw over 200 pitches in 3 games over the course of 30 hours.

Can never be sure, but looking back I figure that's what caused arm troubles in college.

[Ksyrup]

A Youth Football Coach Has Died After Being Shot During A Game

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

A Youth Football Coach Has Died After Being Shot During A Game

I have so many thoughts on this, but I have to get to the gym, so they will have to wait until later, but this is a 9U game, 9 fucking U, has it really become that serious and what does that say about us as a society.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

I have so many thoughts on this, but I have to get to the gym, so they will have to wait until later, but this is a 9U game, 9 fucking U, has it really become that serious and what does that say about us as a society.

Has it become that serious? Yes

What does it say about us as a society? Same thing it has always said.

I think most of us believe that youth sports played a role in who we are today (good and bad) and helped prepare us for the real world. It is why most of us have had our children participate in youth sports. Look at our society today. Can we really say that the events on that field is not preparation for the real world as currently constituted? I know I have talked to my son about what to do if shots are fired when we are at the ball fields.

To be honest, given our legal system, that 30 second clip seems like the perfect evidence for someone to show:

a)they were engaging in self defense
b)they were in fear for their life in a chaotic situation and
c)the possibility that everyone at the field may be armed or may have had something that looked like a weapon.

[albionmoonlight]

Aqib Talib's brother is apparently the main suspect. So this one might stay in the news a little longer than most shootings.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Has it become that serious? Yes

What does it say about us as a society? Same thing it has always said.

I think most of us believe that youth sports played a role in who we are today (good and bad) and helped prepare us for the real world. It is why most of us have had our children participate in youth sports. Look at our society today. Can we really say that the events on that field is not preparation for the real world as currently constituted? I know I have talked to my son about what to do if shots are fired when we are at the ball fields.

To be honest, given our legal system, that 30 second clip seems like the perfect evidence for someone to show:

a)they were engaging in self defense
b)they were in fear for their life in a chaotic situation and
c)the possibility that everyone at the field may be armed or may have had something that looked like a weapon.

This should never be a piece of the that preparation, ever. I have coached since 1987 and there has always been some parents that are douchebags. The difference is, what was once mostly yelling, with a rare instance of physical violence, usually pushing/wrestling, with an occasional swing, has not become this. And lets not even talk about gambling and the pressure parents put on their kids to be a meal ticket, which is much greater than it was 30+ years ago.

I coach at an inner city High School now and coach kids that come play football to get off the streets, be in a safe environment and if they have the talent, work with an eye to college, putting the classroom, at our insistence always ahead of athletics. We had a shootout less than 100 yards from our practice prior to the 2019 season opener. We were locked down last year right after practice started due to gun fire at a park on the opposite end of the school. It happens and we are always prepared for it and sadly the kids are not all that phased by it.

The difference is, these events are a product of the environment that high School is in, not because parents and coaches have no fucking perspective about what youth sports should be, and the lessons that should be taught, especially at that age.

We should not be preparing our kids and teenagers for how society currently is. We should be building them to make that society better, starting in the home, and continuing with what we do as coaches on the field. I have coached two NFL players in 35 years and quite frankly I have never cared if anyone one of my kids made it there. I want to see them on Facebook or run into them in the community being good parents, husbands and members of the community, and if some of that comes from time on the Football field, then that is a bigger accomplishment than the result of any game.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

This should never be a piece of the that preparation, ever. I have coached since 1987 and there has always been some parents that are douchebags. The difference is, what was once mostly yelling, with a rare instance of physical violence, usually pushing/wrestling, with an occasional swing, has not become this. And lets not even talk about gambling and the pressure parents put on their kids to be a meal ticket, which is much greater than it was 30+ years ago.

I coach at an inner city High School now and coach kids that come play football to get off the streets, be in a safe environment and if they have the talent, work with an eye to college, putting the classroom, at our insistence always ahead of athletics. We had a shootout less than 100 yards from our practice prior to the 2019 season opener. We were locked down last year right after practice started due to gun fire at a park on the opposite end of the school. It happens and we are always prepared for it and sadly the kids are not all that phased by it.

The difference is, these events are a product of the environment that high School is in, not because parents and coaches have no fucking perspective about what youth sports should be, and the lessons that should be taught, especially at that age.

We should not be preparing our kids and teenagers for how society currently is. We should be building them to make that society better, starting in the home, and continuing with what we do as coaches on the field. I have coached two NFL players in 35 years and quite frankly I have never cared if anyone one of my kids made it there. I want to see them on Facebook or run into them in the community being good parents, husbands and members of the community, and if some of that comes from time on the Football field, then that is a bigger accomplishment than the result of any game.

Well said my friend

[miami_fan]

I hear what you are saying BYU and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am just telling you what is being said in the stands while you are on the sidelines.

Another factor that needs to be included in this is the expected return on investment that many parents have. I don't mean to pick on baseball but it is the only one I can speak to intimately today. This is from the below article

How Much Does Travel Baseball Cost? (Complete Overview) – Sports Warrior 365

How Much Does Travel Baseball Cost

The total team cost will range from $3,000 to close to $20,000 not including hotels and other costs associated with the season. Families will pay somewhere between $300 and $4000 for their kid to play travel baseball.

FYI I saw that $4000 number in another article specifically for U9 travel ball in 2011. So I feel like that number may be low. We spent about $1500 between hotels, food and gas just on four tournaments this summer. In three of those tournaments my son was a guest pitcher so he did not pay the team or tournament fees and one of those we were able to drive home in between pitching appearances. Add in private hitting, pitching and catching lessons that are offered all over the place outside of the travel ball setup which I have seen cost from $40-$200 per lesson, and player showcases that players are invited to or in some cases invite themselves to. I have no idea of the cost of the showcases.

When I did the paperwork for my son to be able to play sports in high school, I requested info about college recruiting. Well I checked a box on the screen because why not. Next thing I know, I am on a call with a rep from the recruiting service and I am being offered an opportunity to sign up what I call the recruiting LinkedIn. I have the free account already but for as little as a $1200 one time payment ($1440 if you do a payment plan) I can upgrade to the Champion level membership. For $3700 ($4950 for payment plan) I can upgrade to the MVP level membership. The boy has has not even tried out for the JV team. Why the hell would I do that?

I can't imagine what kind of an asshole I would be if I invested that much money into the my son's youth sports career and have his Perfect Game statistics ruined because of a crappy umpire. #sarcasm

[Ksyrup]

I was easily spending $5-10K a year 6-12 years ago with Caitlin for travel softball. And that was before it got even worse with every tourney being pay to play and costing $1000+ right as she was headed to college.

[Atocep]

We were paying about $3.5 for offseason training, league play, and local tournaments plus I don't even know how much for travel to play PG and PBR events in various states. That doesn't include individual catcher training which is expensive, difficult to find, and absolutely necessary for catchers.

Now that's he's in college we're paying $5k for a full year of training at the driveline facility in Kent which includes hitting, catching, along with strength and agility. He started that as soon as his season ended this year and will probably go nearly every day until September when his school starts their offseason program.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

[b]We should not be preparing our kids and teenagers for how society currently is.

\

I'll say it plain: If you DON'T prepare them for it, you're going to end up burying a lot more of them than you would otherwise.

Reality and hope for improvement are NOT mutually exclusive

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

\

I'll say it plain: If you DON'T prepare them for it, you're going to end up burying a lot more of them than you would otherwise.

Reality and hope for improvement are NOT mutually exclusive

The kids I coach right now are a lot more prepared for this society than the average teenager, that's not the issue. I would also say reality and hope for improvement are mutually inclusive. Don't mistake my mindset of positivity for naivety or blind optimism. I know what the fuck I am doing with these kids and it goes way beyond just Football.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

The kids I coach right now are a lot more prepared for this society than the average teenager, that's not the issue. I would also say reality and hope for improvement are mutually inclusive. Don't mistake my mindset of positivity for naivety or blind optimism. I know what the fuck I am doing with these kids and it goes way beyond just Football.

You made a blanket statement, you even bolded it. I replied to that statement. You did not qualify it (as you subsequently did replying to me) with anything about the current level of preparation they possess.

We should not be preparing our kids and teenagers for how society currently is.

As a general statement, that's as far from anything agreeable as I've ever seen posted on this forum, which is a pretty big fucking field. It's a flat earth caliber statement, except it's too dangerous to be anywhere near as humorous.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I hear what you are saying BYU and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I am just telling you what is being said in the stands while you are on the sidelines.

Another factor that needs to be included in this is the expected return on investment that many parents have. I don't mean to pick on baseball but it is the only one I can speak to intimately today. This is from the below article

How Much Does Travel Baseball Cost? (Complete Overview) – Sports Warrior 365



FYI I saw that $4000 number in another article specifically for U9 travel ball in 2011. So I feel like that number may be low. We spent about $1500 between hotels, food and gas just on four tournaments this summer. In three of those tournaments my son was a guest pitcher so he did not pay the team or tournament fees and one of those we were able to drive home in between pitching appearances. Add in private hitting, pitching and catching lessons that are offered all over the place outside of the travel ball setup which I have seen cost from $40-$200 per lesson, and player showcases that players are invited to or in some cases invite themselves to. I have no idea of the cost of the showcases.

When I did the paperwork for my son to be able to play sports in high school, I requested info about college recruiting. Well I checked a box on the screen because why not. Next thing I know, I am on a call with a rep from the recruiting service and I am being offered an opportunity to sign up what I call the recruiting LinkedIn. I have the free account already but for as little as a $1200 one time payment ($1440 if you do a payment plan) I can upgrade to the Champion level membership. For $3700 ($4950 for payment plan) I can upgrade to the MVP level membership. The boy has has not even tried out for the JV team. Why the hell would I do that?

I can't imagine what kind of an asshole I would be if I invested that much money into the my son's youth sports career and have his Perfect Game statistics ruined because of a crappy umpire. #sarcasm

Oh I get this too and sadly there are a lot of vultures out there that quite honestly offer little to no return on investment and it is a BIG part of the problem. I remember when Nike started the air it out 7on7 tournament, 20 odd years ago. It was a once a year thing, that was competitive, but also fun and it was all age groups. Well, about the third year I took my son and some of his Football buddies to do it, a team from LA showed up and I found out talking to the coach, that they literally followed the tournaments all over the west coast.

I knew then were it was headed and sure enough, 7's is a huge money making thing for national travel teams now and many of the tournaments now charge spectators for admission. There are guys out there getting a nice side hustle off of kids and parents and I can see how that affects a parents mindset.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You made a blanket statement, you even bolded it. I replied to that statement. You did not qualify it (as you subsequently did replying to me) with anything about the current level of preparation they possess.



As a general statement, that's as far from anything agreeable as I've ever seen posted on this forum, which is a pretty big fucking field. It's a flat earth caliber statement, except it's too dangerous to be anywhere near as humorous.

Because it was in context with a prior statement and it was not intended as a 'flat earth' statement, which is why I took offense to your reply.

I've been doing this shit since 1987, trust me, I understand the reality Jon. Point is our job as coaches goes way beyond just the reality of life, that is coaching 101 and quite frankly it's lazy if we stop there and I'll let it go at that. Its the end of another 14 hour day for me after practice in 108 degrees for 2.5 hours and probably not the best time or way for me to defend my value as a coach at a school most people would run from because it's too hard to 'win' there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Its the end of another 14 hour day for me after practice in 108 degrees for 2.5 hours ...

And I'm surrounded (socially AND geographically, two incredibly different & distinct groups) by an overwhelming majority of people who are so disconnected from reality that it's a persistent source of vexation for me.

Hence that element of your statement triggering me so strongly.

Maybe it was simply bad timing for those paths to intersect, stuff happens.

[Flasch186]

RE Travel ball I've had to go a weird way if you've read my other thread about it. Due to a late start and my son's late blooming emotional control I've had to avoid exposing him to anyone of long term import. That’s been greatly improved.

Then it just so coincided with a not challenging public school nearby combined with a very good baseball private school about :30 minutes away that we would pay $20K+ per year for education AND baseball. You could argue that it sucks and is the most expensive way to allow your child to play a sport competitively and potentially grow but if we left him at the Public school, education wise, I feel like he was led down a primrose path to mediocrity academically. I was even more worried as well that the public school's bend towards "no homework" AND my son's ability to get 100's on tests & report cards without studying was setting him up for a very hard HS and college stint. Thus we're knee deep in it and I don't even know if we would've considered any of this without his baseball stuff. We didn't even know the school existed (st johns country day school) until his hitting coach had him out there a few times for lessons. It sucks because we're not rich by any stretch and $20K/yr for this was not budgeted for at all. I've given up the idea of a new car and next years vacation due to this crap LOL

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And I'm surrounded (socially AND geographically, two incredibly different & distinct groups) by an overwhelming majority of people who are so disconnected from reality that it's a persistent source of vexation for me.

Hence that element of your statement triggering me so strongly.

Maybe it was simply bad timing for those paths to intersect, stuff happens.

I think so for both of us bro, all good and I get it because I have some of that in my life too. I think we have clarity now LOL

[flere-imsaho]

I got my USSF certification over the summer so I can now ref competitive youth club leagues as well as high school. This has led to a veritable flood of emails from assignors (and even texts) looking for refs, with increasing levels of desperation. The last two club games for my 11-year-old the ref didn't even show up. I would have reffed, but I've been out of town for both. The second one my wife quick grabbed my 14-year-old from home (he also got his USSF certification, mostly to be a linesman for his club team's younger games - clubs in that league must provide the ARs) and he reffed the game.


I had an email conversation with an assignor who mostly works the western burbs (which I can't do because too much travel). He said pre-pandemic there were ~roughly 6000 soccer refs in IL. Mid-pandemic that dropped to about 2000, and it's only recovered to about 3000. Which explains a lot.


The big drop was a lot of the older guys deciding it was time to retire. Now the issue is that no one wants to do it and of those who start, like 70% drop out after one season. The stated primary rationale is almost 100% abuse.


Did a U14 girls game last weekend where at one point there was an obvious handball in the penalty area. Before I even got the whistle to my lips I was inundated by angry calls for a penalty. I whipped around and had some pointed words with the spectators which happily stopped that for the rest of the game.


The thing that kills me is that the girl in question (who certainly committed a handball offense, even if raising her hands was instinctive they were still away from the body) basically almost took a hard shot at point blank distance to her face. But the spectators' first reaction was to scream for a penalty. In a recreational league.

[miked]

My son is playing U10 academy and we have mostly teenage refs. I don't mind them as much, but the parents really get on them. Granted, most miss about 50% of the calls because there is one ref so he/she really can't see offsides behind the play and other things when there are players bunched up. My biggest beef is that a lot of the kids get away with really dangerous kicks and tackles. I understand you don't want to whistle all the time, but if you let the 9 year olds get away with dangerous plays, it really only encourages it.

[miami_fan]

CW: long post including race talk.

We had a situation this weekend. I don't mind any advice or thoughts, this is more about getting the events out of my head, as a way to think about how to move forward, a general view of this sort of thing in general.

My son plays on a 16U travel baseball team for an organization that has multiple teams in each age group. He has just joined the organization for the fall season. He is one of three non white players on his team. This is not unusual given where we live and has pretty much been the case on every baseball team he has played since he began playing five years ago. Outside of having questions about one of his Little League coaches then having him be arrested and finding out he was a member of the Aryan Brotherhood, he has not had not had any issues regarding his race nor have I seen anything that would lead me in the direction.

Because of homecoming at different schools last weekend, they combined teams to make one 16U team for the tournament. My son was one of two non white players on the team and one of only three players from his regular team in the combined team. In between our two pool play games on Saturday, the mother of the other non white player told my wife that two of the players on the team had used the N-word in the dugout and may have directed it towards my son. I find out what had happened when my wife very loudly asked my son in front of the other players if anyone on the team called him the N-word. He said no. Once I talked to my wife, I called him over away from the team and asked the same question also asked if he heard them say it to someone else. He said and said if he did he would have said something. I was satisfied with his answers and he went back to warming up. By this time, word has gotten around and of course parents were adamant that not only would their child not say such a thing, they would not tolerate anyone else saying it. Parents asked their players and all denied hearing anyone use the N-word.

I decided to ask the kid who was making the accusations to tell me what happened. I asked his mother if she would allow me to talk to him away from her. She was okay with that. Here is what he said happened. A conversation happened that centered on what race the opposing pitcher was. This conversation was occurring while my son was out of the dugout either hitting, on the bases or coaching first base. There was only one coach coaching the team this weekend and he was coaching at third base. One of the players who is not on my son's regular team said there is no way the pitcher was black because black people can't pitch. Of course that is interesting to me because besides playing first base and outfield, he is also a pretty good lefty pitcher. Someone else said black people can't really play baseball that well. Somewhere along the line, a player allegedly said something and said he almost said it with an "-er" Someone else said something similar about my son. At that point the kid spoke up and said he did not appreciate what was being said and I guess things stopped at that point. I asked the kid why he was not warming up with the rest of the team and he said he did. I brought him over to warm up and instead of sitting next to my wife, I sat next to the dugout for the second game. There was not race talk in the dugout and we ended up winning the game with my son pitching two innings. I did notice a significant uptick in cheering for the kid who had made the accusations.

On the ride home, my wife received a text from one of the parents who said they talked with their child and reiterated that no one in the dugout had said the N-word. He did confirm that the other kid did say he was offended by something that was said in the dugout. He could not remember what it was nor could he remember what they were talking about. It was only when my wife ask my son for everyone to hear that they realized what the kid was offended by and said he must of misheard what they were saying. The mother chalked it up to teenage boys trash talking. At this point, I know the accuser did not make up the story. Something happened. It is just a matter of how much of what he said is true. We go to the games on Sunday. Many of the players who were unavailable on Saturday were able to play on Sunday. We won one game and lost in the semifinals. There were no issues on Sunday. Once we got back home, my wife received a phone call from a different parent asking if we were okay and if we would be coming back to the team. My wife said we were fine. We have had some issues with how the organization had been handling off the field and was considering leaving but changes have been made so we had said we would give it time. The other mother said she talked with her son and he said that he also did not hear anyone use the N word but he confirmed that the conversation about black people and pitching and black people and baseball did happen. Her son said he knew what they were saying was wrong but he did not think it was bothering anyone until the other player said something. My wife told her we were fine and we would be a practice this week. Last night my wife had different conversations with three other mothers. Their sons had played with my son on different teams in the past and came to the new team because we had joined. They were prepared to leave if we were leaving the team. All of the boys are pretty good players and would have guest player options for the rest of the fall season if they wanted.

So that is where we are. You may have noticed I have not said anything about the team's coaches or management role in any of this. One of the issues I had was the coaching of my son's team and the old coach was replaced and we met the new coach for the first time on Saturday. I did not see a need to involved the coach or the management because well what are they supposed to do? This morning, there was a message in the team chat that there will be a meeting for parents and players before practice on Thursday to address team culture. At this point, I am not going to the meeting nor will my son. I don't really see a need for either one of us to attend a meeting about the team culture if the conversation will be about what happened this weekend. I am not comfortable saying for sure that anyone involved is racist. I am also not comfortable saying for sure that anyone is not racist. As we have always done, we asked my son is he is comfortable playing on this team. He told us he likes his teammates and his first impressions of his new coach who is also the varsity coach of a local high school is favorable. So for now, he will be on the field once the meeting is over and we will move forward from there.

Youth sports can be exhausting sometimes.

[Lathum]

Jesus. Sorry you guys are dealing with that.

[flere-imsaho]

Holy shit.

[PilotMan]

Breathe and then breathe again. This is one where time will expose the ture nature of it. One way, or the other. Good luck!

[albionmoonlight]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...ol-basketball/

[Young Drachma]

As a HS coach, I'd been pretty fortunate to have parents who were super supportive or left me alone. I had an experience this summer where I went to coach a team somewhere else and it was all of the worst sport parent stories, except I don't coach a sport anybody really cares about, so it wasn't nearly as bad as what basketball or football coaches get. Still, I hadn't experienced it before.

I read a lot of articles about coaches who had won state titles in other states who were quitting because of the parents, it was illuminating and made me appreciate what I had normally because I had no idea how insane it could be.

The professionalization of youth sports is so nuts, dunno where we went wrong but things are completely unhinged now and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle. It's not all parents, obviously, some coaches are also to blame and administrators but...it's astounding how toxic it all is now.

I realized how high the stakes might be for someone who does this stuff for a living and how parents try to exert control in ways that I just hadn't considered. Luckily for me, it's extremely a hobby and I don't care about the money...but I think a lot about the people who do and how difficult it must be to deal with this stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

obviously, some coaches are also to blame and administrators

You mean like the JV assistant coach that dressed out & pretended she was a 14 year player?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

You mean like the JV assistant coach that dressed out & pretended she was a 14 year player?

When I saw the headline that a coach was fired for impersonating a player, I thought that it was, like, a special needs player and the coach did a mocking dance or something.

When I realized that she actually went out there to play ball dressed as a high schooler . . .

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

The professionalization of youth sports is so nuts, dunno where we went wrong but things are completely unhinged now and there's no putting the genie back in the bottle.

This. So much this.

I've run a pretty tight ship as a soccer referee, but have resolved for the Spring season to not avoid yellow cards for coaches and I'd say there's a 30% chance I toss all the spectators from at least one game.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Young Drachma

The professionalization of youth sports is so nuts

I have an ex-coworker who's kids were perfectly fine basketball players. Her son ended up starting D3, and her daughter got a scholarship to go D2.

But she sincerely and honestly thinks that the universe has conspired against her family. Both kids would be professionals if only coaches, etc. hadn't gotten in the way and stunted their growth, etc.

The girl in still in college, and I am pretty sure that her mom still thinks that the WNBA is a possibility if only people saw how great she was.

At some point, the idea that kids should just play for fun and exercise and teamwork and all that went out the window and everyone became a sportsmom or sportsdad.

[flere-imsaho]

The other thing that bugs me is that if your kids want to do well in a sport, they pretty much have to play it year-round now.

Take my 14-year-old. He really wanted to make the HS soccer team (and did). But the competition is tight enough that you really need to be playing club in the winter & spring, and do camps all summer.

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I was in HS, you did a different sport each season and that seemed better.

Now, excuse me for a sec as I go yell at some kids on my lawn.

[albionmoonlight]

It's all part of the same deal. It used to be for fun. At some point, it got super competitive. Which I just don't get for the 99%+ of kids that aren't going to be within sniffing distance of a scholarship or a pro career.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I don't know about the rest of you, but when I was in HS, you did a different sport each season and that seemed better.

I don't know how different it actually was though.

I went to a pretty small HS (and we fielded rellatively few sports compared to today) so it's easier for me to recall who did what, even after all these years.

B'ball roster usually had 12 players, 2-3 footballers among them.
Football roster was somewhere in the 40s or 50s in number, maybe 4-5 of those played baseball.

Tennis / golf teams usually had 1-2 b'ball players each.

But for every one of those guys, there was a nearly equal number of football players who lived in the weight room year round, golfers around who played almost year round, b'ball players who were gym rats and in there about 48 weeks a year.

[flere-imsaho]

Huh, completely different for me. Most anyone who was doing sports at all was doing 3 a year. Common combinations (we didn't have a football team, but this was Maine so the big sports were actually hockey & skiing):

soccer - basketball - baseball
soccer - hockey - lacrosse
XC running - skiing - track
soccer - skiing - lacrosse

Although maybe, now that I think about it, it was just a super small school (enrollment for 4 grades under 400).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Although maybe, now that I think about it, it was just a super small school (enrollment for 4 grades under 400).

We were a little larger I guess, around 500-550 for 9 thru 12. (My grad class was just over a hundred, lower grades were incrementally larger, so that figure seems about right)