2013-14 MLB Off Season Thread - Page 5

Arles · 11-18-2013, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Shumaker is a Jockety guy.

Article in our local sports page about the Cards and Orioles. It is just a "what if" type thing I think.
But, JJ Hardy for Sgelby Miller.

The Os young kid coming back from knee surgery and Hardy in his walk year. Miller is a stud. But the Cards go 7 deep in SPs. And there is no SS on the roster to speak of. Could be a developing story. But the Os have stated they arent actively trading Hardy.

I would want more than Hardy for Miller. Hardy is 31 and makes $8 mil in his final year. It's not like he is a great hitter or defender (.306 OBP with 25 HR) and is a 3-3.5 WAR guy. They could take that $8 mil and get a 3 WAR SS like Peralta and keep Miller. They control Miller for 5 years at a dirt cheap price.

Ronnie Dobbs3 · 11-19-2013, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

It's not like he is a great hitter or defender

I would want more than Hardy, but Hardy is a pretty great player - 6th best SS offensively last season, 4th best defensively according to Fangraphs.

Butter · 11-19-2013, 06:41 AM

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

korme · 11-19-2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

For when we trade BP.

Butter · 11-19-2013, 11:31 AM

If he starts at second base for the Reds next season, you might as well pack up the season now.

Arles · 11-19-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs3

I would want more than Hardy, but Hardy is a pretty great player - 6th best SS offensively last season, 4th best defensively according to Fangraphs.

Yeah, I guess it was a pretty weak SS crop last season as Hardy's 3.4 WAR did earn him a tie of 6th. The 8th best was Alexei Ramirez (3.1 WAR) and then it got pretty ugly (the 10th was Brandon Crawford and his 2.2 WAR). What worries me is his age (31), injury history and FA status after the season. If they could get a solid prospect with him I might bite, but Miller is such a bargain and a performer. I would think they could find a capable SS in FA. Don't forget, with Carp, Beltran and Westbrook coming off the books - the Cards will have over $30 mil in available payroll.

JPhillips · 11-19-2013, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

2 years at 2.5 mil per?

The Reds are paying @18 mil next year for:

Ludwick
Broxton
Hannahan
Shumaker
Pena
Ondrusek

rowech · 11-19-2013, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker?

I like his flexibility as a utility guy but if he's a starter, it's trouble.

Vince, Pt. II · 11-19-2013, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

I think you mean Tim Hudson.

Yes, good catch. Too many Timmys.

tarcone · 11-19-2013, 07:02 PM

Schumaker is a clubhouse guy. And he can play all 3 OF spots and 2B. BP gets hurt every year and Schumaker is a nice fill in for a short period of time.
That is a great signing by the Reds.

JPhillips · 11-19-2013, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tarcone

Schumaker is a clubhouse guy. And he can play all 3 OF spots and 2B. BP gets hurt every year and Schumaker is a nice fill in for a short period of time.
That is a great signing by the Reds.

His OPS was .665. Your definition of great isn't the same as mine.

tarcone · 11-19-2013, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

His OPS was .665. Your definition of great isn't the same as mine.

Again, he is a clubhouse guy. That can play defense. He will hit 250 off the bench. Sure, you dont want him playing 150 games. But you need a fill in and you want to spend money other places then on a back up OF AND a back up mid INF, you sign Schumaker for 2.5 mil a year and spend your money elsewhere.
Again, maybe I misspoke saying he is a great player. But he is a great signing and a great player for the Reds.

JPhillips · 11-19-2013, 09:27 PM

The bench consists of Shumaker, Hannahan, Heisey, Pena and one to be named later.

No power. No speed. No +defenders. No youth.

I've been very happy with Walt, but his obsession with two year contracts for replacement level players is maddening.

BishopMVP · 11-19-2013, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arles

Yeah, I guess it was a pretty weak SS crop last season as Hardy's 3.4 WAR did earn him a tie of 6th. The 8th best was Alexei Ramirez (3.1 WAR) and then it got pretty ugly (the 10th was Brandon Crawford and his 2.2 WAR). What worries me is his age (31), injury history and FA status after the season. If they could get a solid prospect with him I might bite, but Miller is such a bargain and a performer. I would think they could find a capable SS in FA. Don't forget, with Carp, Beltran and Westbrook coming off the books - the Cards will have over $30 mil in available payroll.

FA's gross this year. Stephen Drew and Johnny Peralta are pretty much the two clear upgrades available, and Drew costs a 1st round pick (not that every one hits, but that's how the Cards got Miller 2 years ago). After that, it's taking a chance on a name like Rafa Furcal or Clint Barmes.

Overall, I wouldn't do Miller for Hardy straight up, but it's basically another Wil Myers for James Shields trade. A wash (or even a "win" for the Cards if Miller was going to come out of the bullpen) in year one-two, and the potential for a huge Orioles win down the road if Miller stays healthy and develops into a top 2-3 starter.

JetsIn06 · 11-20-2013, 07:03 PM

So...

Texas and Detroit are talking about a trade involving Fielder and Kinsler....

JetsIn06 · 11-20-2013, 07:27 PM

dola

Tigers To Acquire Prince Fielder For Ian Kinsler: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

Deal is done. WOW.

Edit: The headline is backward, but the post is correct.

oykib · 11-20-2013, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetsIn06

So...

Texas and Detroit are talking about a trade involving Fielder and Kinsler....

Heyman has it as a done deal.

RomaGoth · 11-20-2013, 07:49 PM

Good deal for Detroit. Upgrades 2nd base, at least defensively, and clears a ton of payroll. Perhaps this means Dombrowski will try to re-sign Scherzer now. They also have Miggy to think about after next year.

Izulde · 11-20-2013, 07:56 PM

I think it's a trade that works for both teams TBH.

RomaGoth · 11-20-2013, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Izulde

I think it's a trade that works for both teams TBH.

True.

I am somewhat surprised that Detroit was able to unload that massive contract though. I am sure there is money included in this deal to help offset Fielder's contract.

Vince, Pt. II · 11-20-2013, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RomaGoth

True.

I am somewhat surprised that Detroit was able to unload that massive contract though. I am sure there is money included in this deal to help offset Fielder's contract.

Yeah, I can't see this as anything but a clear win for Detroit unless there is a ton more going back Texas's way. That Fielder contract is going to be terrible sooner rather than later.

MrBug708 · 11-20-2013, 09:05 PM

Dombroksi won Exec of the Year

Atocep · 11-20-2013, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

Yeah, I can't see this as anything but a clear win for Detroit unless there is a ton more going back Texas's way. That Fielder contract is going to be terrible sooner rather than later.

$30 million

IMO, it's a win for the Rangers.

ISiddiqui · 11-20-2013, 10:25 PM

Whoa... what a deal! I do think its a win-win, but Texas gets a bit of a better deal on it.

jbergey22 · 11-20-2013, 10:46 PM

Detroit can move Miggy back to first base now and can get a decent fielder to play the hot corner. This was a perfect trade for Detroit. Kinsler may not look the best in traditional categories but he puts up a nice OBP and is known as a great baserunner.

He also was injured the early part of last season which I believe zapped his power production for the season. Shoulder injury if I remember correctly.

Texas is probably getting a guy that will hit 40 homers in that stadium and needed to find a home for Profar.

I cant think of a more perfect trade where both sides accomplished a lot.

korme · 11-20-2013, 11:27 PM

Love trades like this

jbergey22 · 11-20-2013, 11:31 PM

Detroit gives Texas 30 million in cash. Essentially paying Prince 138 million over 7 years. With getting Kinsler and his 64 million off the payroll the financials in this arent as bad as one might think.

With the Rangers in win now mode I am guessing they would have gladly paid a bat of Prince's caliber 138 million over 7 years if he were a Free Agent this year.

Not saying they wont regret it in 3-4 years but I doubt they are looking that far ahead.

EDIT
Actually the monetary value of this trade is pretty fair as well.

Kinsler is 31 years old and will be paid 16.5 million per year(including buyout) until he is 35 years old. Prince is 29 years old and will be paid appx 19.8 million per year(what the rangers are paying) until he is 36 years old. If you consider that you are getting the 2 years of Prince playing at closer to peak years I dont think this is really all that unfair at all.

Should be one of them rare trades where both teams improve from it the following year.

sterlingice · 11-21-2013, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Dombroksi won Exec of the Year

To be fair, he did sign Fielder to begin with

That said, I have this general impression that Dombrowski is somewhat underrated. But I want to see his transaction and payroll history. He doesn't work in the uber rich area but he's always had a pretty good payroll, especially since Illitch has been wanting to buy a World Series before he dies.

SI

Mizzou B-ball fan · 11-21-2013, 02:52 PM

Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

Logan · 11-21-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

Or a 4 year, $32 million deal for Jason Vargas.

Scarecrow · 11-21-2013, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Or a 4 year, $32 million deal for Jason Vargas.

JPhillips · 11-21-2013, 03:19 PM

4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward.

Logan · 11-21-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward.

Don't worry, the eventual Beltran signing will make it all worth it.

molson · 11-21-2013, 03:33 PM

Somebody before talked about all the money out there this off-season, but even last season, I felt like pretty much every signing was greeted with the "that's too much money" criticism. But if almost every free agent contract is for too much money, then we probably need to re-evaluate how much "too much" is, and just accept that this is what these guys cost. Unless my perception on that criticism is off.

lungs · 11-21-2013, 03:42 PM

I'd say that's fair value in terms of annual payout for Jason Vargas... but why go four years on him?

sterlingice · 11-21-2013, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

YOU! THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!

SI

cuervo72 · 11-21-2013, 08:13 PM

I blame DeLoss Dodds.

cartman · 11-21-2013, 08:43 PM

I heard Beltran was going to do the coin flip at the next Chiefs game.

Atocep · 11-21-2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

Somebody before talked about all the money out there this off-season, but even last season, I felt like pretty much every signing was greeted with the "that's too much money" criticism. But if almost every free agent contract is for too much money, then we probably need to re-evaluate how much "too much" is, and just accept that this is what these guys cost. Unless my perception on that criticism is off.

What I'm wondering is when did we start having press conferences for signing #5 starters?

Suicane75 · 11-21-2013, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lungs

I'd say that's fair value in terms of annual payout for Jason Vargas... but why go four years on him?

Because everyone else was offering him 3, and when you can win the war for Vargas, you effing do it.

BishopMVP · 11-22-2013, 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPhillips

4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward.

If he had pitched in any playoff game over the last 4 years, he probably would have gotten $12 million/year.

jbergey22 · 11-22-2013, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

If he had pitched in any playoff game over the last 4 years, he probably would have gotten $12 million/year.

Imagine if one of them games would have been a shutout. Add another 3k/per.

BishopMVP · 11-22-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Imagine if one of them games would have been a shutout. Add another 3k/per.

Yeah, I was kinda being facetious, but I was actually pretty shocked at how respectable his stats are over the last 4 years. An ERA slightly under 4.00, but 200 IP each year and doing it in the AL? That's better than a #5 starter, or his complete lack of name recognition. That's Bronson Arroyo, except Arroyo's been doing it on a contending team and Vargas has done so in complete anonymity.

Chris Young, 1-yr $7.5m from the Mets. That's actually a pretty good deal for both sides.

lungs · 11-22-2013, 01:12 PM

Breaking news, Red Sox acquire Burke Badenhop from the Brewers. I think this one will eclipse the Fielder/Kinsler deal as the offseason blockbuster.

sterlingice · 11-22-2013, 01:20 PM

Maybe in ESPN coverage

SI

Chief Rum · 11-22-2013, 01:23 PM

I meant to bring this up the other day and forgot.

The Angels have hired for two new positions which I will be very curious to see how they work out. They hired Rick Eckstein (David's brother and former hitting coach for the Nats) as their player information coach and Nick Francona (Terry;s son) as their coordinator of MLB intelligence.

These are new positions that will devise scouting plans against upcoming teams, among other things.

This tells me the organization is leaning more toward Dipoto's way, rather than Scioscia.

Atocep · 11-22-2013, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Yeah, I was kinda being facetious, but I was actually pretty shocked at how respectable his stats are over the last 4 years. An ERA slightly under 4.00, but 200 IP each year and doing it in the AL? That's better than a #5 starter, or his complete lack of name recognition. That's Bronson Arroyo, except Arroyo's been doing it on a contending team and Vargas has done so in complete anonymity.

He's pitched in some great ballparks for a flyball pitcher that doesn't strike out a lot hitters. His ERA on the road over that span is over 5.

cartman · 11-22-2013, 01:30 PM

I hate to see Kinsler go, but from all accounts he didn't want to move from 2B to make room for Profar. This also should allow Andrus to move to the lead-off spot. That makes for an interesting top of the order, which likely will be:

Andrus
Rios
Fielder
Adrian Beltre

oykib · 11-22-2013, 01:43 PM

There's rumor out that the Cards are trading Freese to the Angels for Bourjos.

Chief Rum · 11-22-2013, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oykib

There's rumor out that the Cards are trading Freese to the Angels for Bourjos.

Per MLB Trade Rumors, the two teams have been talking about Freese and OF depth. I must admit, though, I was hoping it would not be Bourjos shipped out.

11-19-2013, 06:41 AM	#203
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	What is the point of signing Skip Schumaker? __________________ My listening habits

11-19-2013, 11:31 AM	#205
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	If he starts at second base for the Reds next season, you might as well pack up the season now. __________________ My listening habits

11-19-2013, 07:02 PM	#210
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	Schumaker is a clubhouse guy. And he can play all 3 OF spots and 2B. BP gets hurt every year and Schumaker is a nice fill in for a short period of time. That is a great signing by the Reds. __________________ Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15

11-19-2013, 09:27 PM	#213
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	The bench consists of Shumaker, Hannahan, Heisey, Pena and one to be named later. No power. No speed. No +defenders. No youth. I've been very happy with Walt, but his obsession with two year contracts for replacement level players is maddening. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

11-20-2013, 07:27 PM	#216
JetsIn06 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rahway, NJ	dola Tigers To Acquire Prince Fielder For Ian Kinsler: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com Deal is done. WOW. Edit: The headline is backward, but the post is correct. Last edited by JetsIn06 : 11-20-2013 at 07:27 PM.

11-20-2013, 07:03 PM	#215
JetsIn06 Pro Rookie Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Rahway, NJ	So... Texas and Detroit are talking about a trade involving Fielder and Kinsler....

11-20-2013, 07:56 PM	#219
Izulde Head Coach Join Date: Sep 2004	I think it's a trade that works for both teams TBH. __________________ 2006 Golden Scribe Nominee 2006 Golden Scribe Winner Best Non-Sport Dynasty: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty) Rookie Writer of the Year Dynasty of the Year: May Our Reign Be Green and Golden (CK Dynasty)

11-20-2013, 09:05 PM	#222
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	Dombroksi won Exec of the Year

11-20-2013, 10:25 PM	#224
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Whoa... what a deal! I do think its a win-win, but Texas gets a bit of a better deal on it. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

11-20-2013, 10:46 PM	#225
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Detroit can move Miggy back to first base now and can get a decent fielder to play the hot corner. This was a perfect trade for Detroit. Kinsler may not look the best in traditional categories but he puts up a nice OBP and is known as a great baserunner. He also was injured the early part of last season which I believe zapped his power production for the season. Shoulder injury if I remember correctly. Texas is probably getting a guy that will hit 40 homers in that stadium and needed to find a home for Profar. I cant think of a more perfect trade where both sides accomplished a lot. Last edited by jbergey22 : 11-20-2013 at 10:46 PM.

11-20-2013, 11:27 PM	#226
korme Go Reds Join Date: May 2001 Location: Bloodbuzz Ohio	Love trades like this

11-20-2013, 11:31 PM	#227
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Detroit gives Texas 30 million in cash. Essentially paying Prince 138 million over 7 years. With getting Kinsler and his 64 million off the payroll the financials in this arent as bad as one might think. With the Rangers in win now mode I am guessing they would have gladly paid a bat of Prince's caliber 138 million over 7 years if he were a Free Agent this year. Not saying they wont regret it in 3-4 years but I doubt they are looking that far ahead. EDIT Actually the monetary value of this trade is pretty fair as well. Kinsler is 31 years old and will be paid 16.5 million per year(including buyout) until he is 35 years old. Prince is 29 years old and will be paid appx 19.8 million per year(what the rangers are paying) until he is 36 years old. If you consider that you are getting the 2 years of Prince playing at closer to peak years I dont think this is really all that unfair at all. Should be one of them rare trades where both teams improve from it the following year. Last edited by jbergey22 : 11-21-2013 at 12:55 AM.

11-21-2013, 02:52 PM	#229
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	Local radio here in KC reporting that the Royals will have an announcement at 4:00 PM CST. Rumor is that they've signed Carlos Beltran to come back to the Royals.

11-21-2013, 03:19 PM	#232
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	4 years for a guy that's past thirty and has a career high year ERA+ of 104. Wow. I hope this turns out to be another stupid Royals decision and not a marker of what new TV money is going to do to contracts going forward. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

11-21-2013, 03:33 PM	#234
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Somebody before talked about all the money out there this off-season, but even last season, I felt like pretty much every signing was greeted with the "that's too much money" criticism. But if almost every free agent contract is for too much money, then we probably need to re-evaluate how much "too much" is, and just accept that this is what these guys cost. Unless my perception on that criticism is off. Last edited by molson : 11-21-2013 at 03:34 PM.

11-21-2013, 03:42 PM	#235
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	I'd say that's fair value in terms of annual payout for Jason Vargas... but why go four years on him?

11-21-2013, 08:13 PM	#237
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	I blame DeLoss Dodds. __________________ null

11-21-2013, 08:43 PM	#238
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I heard Beltran was going to do the coin flip at the next Chiefs game. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

11-22-2013, 01:12 PM	#244
lungs Pro Rookie Join Date: May 2002 Location: Prairie du Sac, WI	Breaking news, Red Sox acquire Burke Badenhop from the Brewers. I think this one will eclipse the Fielder/Kinsler deal as the offseason blockbuster.

11-22-2013, 01:20 PM	#245
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Maybe in ESPN coverage SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

11-22-2013, 01:23 PM	#246
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I meant to bring this up the other day and forgot. The Angels have hired for two new positions which I will be very curious to see how they work out. They hired Rick Eckstein (David's brother and former hitting coach for the Nats) as their *player information coach* and Nick Francona (Terry;s son) as their *coordinator of MLB intelligence. These are new positions that will devise scouting plans against upcoming teams, among other things. This tells me the organization is leaning more toward Dipoto's way, rather than Scioscia. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.* Last edited by Chief Rum : 11-22-2013 at 01:23 PM.

11-22-2013, 01:30 PM	#248
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I hate to see Kinsler go, but from all accounts he didn't want to move from 2B to make room for Profar. This also should allow Andrus to move to the lead-off spot. That makes for an interesting top of the order, which likely will be: Andrus Rios Fielder Adrian Beltre __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

11-22-2013, 01:43 PM	#249
oykib College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	There's rumor out that the Cards are trading Freese to the Angels for Bourjos.

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