NFL Week 12 Thread

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

I don't get this post at all.

Fox & Co. were criticized when Tebow was put in his first game (the Miami game) because they weren't running an offense suited to Tebow's skills. Too many 7 yard drops, too many passes, etc.

So what do they do? They go with a run-first, conservative offense that tries to best use Tebow's skills (scrambling, runs, etc.) and not his (sub-par) passing mechanics and you're going to criticize them for it? It's that kind of "it's never Tebow's fault" sentiment that drives me nuts. Simply put, Fox IS putting Tebow in the best position to utilize his talents.

---

Simply put, it's not Tebow that's winning the games for Denver. What Fox is showing - whether it be accidentally or on purpose - is that a strong running game combined with a lack of turnovers and good defense still wins in the NFL.

Denver has racked up the following rushing yards since Tebow was named the starter: 177, 195, 299, 244 and 125. Part of that is due to Tebow, but a great part of that is improved blocking on the OL and a commitment to the running game even when opposing teams are loading up the box with 8 guys.

Net Defensive Points Allowed: 15, 31 (other 14 were offensive turnovers), 24, 10 and 6 (13 - 7 for Den defensive TD). That's about 18 points per game, which is pretty damn good.

Denver hasn't had a turnover in 4 weeks (since the Detroit game). That's outstanding ball control.

The whole Denver offense is doing a great job by not turning the ball over, they're running it down people's throats (limiting the number of opponent's offensive possessions) and their defense is keeping people out of the endzone. When it gets down to the 4th quarter, the opposing defenses are out of gas and it shows. That's why they're winning games late. It goes to show that even in today's NFL, a ball control offense can still be a winning formula.

Simply put BA, the Broncos need to find out what they have in Tebow. This last series of downs shows just how stupid they are. The best time to throw the ball for a young QB? First down. That's the down Tebow never gets to throw the ball from unless it's a 2 minute drill.

The two best Broncos drives of the game happened when they opened the offense up. One was the end of the first half. It resulted in a TD. The second time they really let loose was with 5 minutes left and trailing. That resulted in three points.

In OT they have had the ball twice. Tebow is 1/2 for 10 yards, getting a chance to throw on 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 11. I'm sorry, but that's bad judgement, especially when Tebow has thrown the ball very well today.

Oh, and the running game? That's about 70% Tebow and 30% offensive line play. Nobody is going to mistake Willis McGahee and Lance Ball for all pro NFL running backs. The read option, as screwed up as seeing it in the NFL has been, has kept defenses from gearing up 100% on the running backs.

At the end of the day, if the Chargers do go on to win this game, I think it can be attributed to horrific coaching at the end.

[Julio Riddols]

A tie where San Diego wins it appears.

[mauchow]

Unreal call there......... time to set yourself up for a 53 yarder, good job Norv.

[Danny]

Yep, kicker might save him, but Turner is a loser

[kingfc22]

LOL!

[TroyF]

Damnit. Unbelievable.

[Julio Riddols]

HAHAHAHAHA.. Crazy like a Fox.

[RedKingGold]

Norv has to be tanking...

[TroyF]

Thank you. OK, 2:31 Fox, let the kid play and win this game.

[kingfc22]

Okay... NOW it is Tebow Time.

[Julio Riddols]

He still misses it.. This shit is awesome.

[SirFozzie]

Tebow Time Part 2.

[mauchow]

Holy balls Tebow just got crushed.

[mauchow]

Let's see if Norv does the right thing and uses his timeouts instead of letting the clock run

[mauchow]

Nope - Norv - if they miss the field goal, you get the ball back, you know..?

[mauchow]

My goodness, this guy in my pick em picked Washington and Denver to win - this was my chance at getting into first place and he's running away with it after getting those two picks right today - DAMN IT! lol

[SirFozzie]

Did San Diego just call a time out where Denver would have had to take a delay of game penalty? (they weren't ready at all to snap and there was 02 on the 40 second clock)

[kingfc22]

Tebow = 5-1.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Tebow Magic strikes again!

[TroyF]

BANG

[stevew]

Noticed the possible delay penalty as well. I'm guessing they snapped at 1 though

[Buccaneer]

Woo hoo! Unbelievable.

[Julio Riddols]

TEBOW!!!!!! heh.

[mauchow]

Enjoy NEVER getting another job in the NFL Norv. LOL

Now if only the VIkings didn't suck this year.

[rowech]

I would literally walk down and tell turner he's fired right in front of the entire team. Dude doesn't have the balls to try and win games.

[SirFozzie]

Tebowmania is running wild... and Merril Hoge is the worst Bobby Heenan ever.

[Antmeister]

Yeah, I wonder where all those people are that was saying that Norv Turner was a better hire than Marty. We have progressively gotten worse each year he has been here. Norv was playing not to lose and that is why Denver was still in this game. Dammit!!!!!!!

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Pumpy, while waiting for this thread to get more posts (gametracker is borked), I checked out your bowling scores. Very nice games, esp. the 279 last month.

Hey, thanks. Much appreciated.

[Dodgerchick]

I'm disgusted, wtf

[EagleFan]

I think I have just converted to Tebowism...

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Leinart is out for the year.

*sigh* That's just horrible luck. Looked like he had good numbers too before he got knocked out of the game. Was really pulling for him.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Simply put BA, the Broncos need to find out what they have in Tebow. This last series of downs shows just how stupid they are. The best time to throw the ball for a young QB? First down. That's the down Tebow never gets to throw the ball from unless it's a 2 minute drill.

The two best Broncos drives of the game happened when they opened the offense up. One was the end of the first half. It resulted in a TD. The second time they really let loose was with 5 minutes left and trailing. That resulted in three points.

In OT they have had the ball twice. Tebow is 1/2 for 10 yards, getting a chance to throw on 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 11. I'm sorry, but that's bad judgement, especially when Tebow has thrown the ball very well today.

Oh, and the running game? That's about 70% Tebow and 30% offensive line play. Nobody is going to mistake Willis McGahee and Lance Ball for all pro NFL running backs. The read option, as screwed up as seeing it in the NFL has been, has kept defenses from gearing up 100% on the running backs.

At the end of the day, if the Chargers do go on to win this game, I think it can be attributed to horrific coaching at the end.

Tebow still hasn't completed more than 50% of his passes in any game this year. He hasn't thrown the ball well in any game, including this one. 9/18 against a porous SD defense (giving up a whopping 5.8 yards per play) isn't what I consider a sterling passing day. However, if I'm a coach, I'll take the 208 yards on the ground. I don't need to throw with that kind of ground game.

Did you just watch that game? Fox did *exactly* what you wanted in OT. He had Tim throw it on 1st down. Incomplete. But when Fox goes back to the run, we see a tired SD defense miss Tebow on a 12 yard scramble and then try to arm tackle McGahee when he rumbled for close to 20 yards. That's exactly what I just explained not 10 minutes prior.

FYI, McGahee was an All-Pro NFL running back.

I think we all know what they have in Tebow. They have a guy who can't throw the ball very well at this juncture. But he presents a match-up challenge with his size and his legs and that's what Fox is using to drive his play calling. It's not unlike the Kordell Stewart era from the Steelers. The only question is can they guy develop (not unlike Stewart, who never really did)?

Again, if they had Tebow throwing it on 1st down, there would be a lot more 3 and outs, the Denver defense would be on the field longer and they'd be losing games. People would be screaming that Fox wasn't playing up to Tebow's abilities and so on and so forth. It's exactly what we saw the first couple weeks with Tebow. Now that Fox has designed a game plan that seems to work (at least against teams with mediocre defenses) by running the ball and controlling the clock, you have some of the same fans who want to watch Tebow wing it. Not only is that recipe for losing, but you can't have it both ways.

Credit for this winning streak goes to (in order):

1. The Denver defense, for simply not allowing teams to put a lot of points on the board. This allows Fox to continue to run his game plan and keeps Tebow from having to put the ball up. We saw what happens when he's forced to do that...it was a 35 point loss. They're playing good, hard, smart defense. I'm impressed with that group.

2. The Denver OL for excellent blocking. You don't average over 200 yards per game rushing the ball without one hell of an OL. Even Barry Sanders couldn't do that. So to say that it's 70% Tebow is an absolute joke. Give these guys credit. There are holes open for all the backs (including Tebow) and they're wearing opposing defenses down.

3. The entire offense for not turning the ball over. This includes Tebow, McGahee and everyone else. 4 games in a row without a turnover is a winning formula for any team.

4. Fox for his excellent game plans. It won't work against elite teams, but it will work against many teams. They'll be in most games with this kind of low-risk offense.

5. Britton Colquitt. Who? The Denver punter. Averaging 48.3 yards per punt, 17 inside the 20 and only 4 touchbacks. Field position, field position, field position.

P.S. How does Norv Turner still have a job? Does he have naked pics of someone? Because with the talent that's been on the SD team, they should have done far better over the last few years. Hell, they were some folks Super Bowl pick this year. But they look like a bunch of guys just going through the motions and have for the last couple of seasons. And when he does post a great regular season, his teams are one-and-done in the playoffs.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Tebowmania is running wild... and Merril Hoge is the worst Bobby Heenan ever.

John Fox and John Elway are the evil assistant principal and superintendent of a bad sitcom. No matter how diabolical their shenigans are, it's always Tebow, the kid with a bad reputation but a heart of gold, who spoils their plans by being one step ahead.

[Matthean]

Pulling this from week 11...

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Tebowmania is like Hulkamania.. you spend most of the match griping about all the things they cant do... and then the opponent starts punching and then the finger point.. punch punch punch big boot.. leg drop... 1 2 3

There are those matches where Hogan waves his finger and his opponent breaks the comeback and they wrestle for a bit. It's during that part where you go, "Well maybe they can beat Hogan." The moment when Fox calls the TO on the blocked kick had to feel like that moment.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Tebowmania is running wild... and Merril Hoge is the worst Bobby Heenan ever.

goddamn that's funny. +1 to you sir.

[larrymcg421]

For all the talk of Denver's super duper awesome ball control offense, they have lost the time of possession battle in both of their last two wins and their defense has been on the field for more total plays.

[cuervo72]

BS PI.

[kingfc22]

That was a BS PI call.

[Julio Riddols]

How was that defensive PI?

[Thomkal]

Oh and my beloved Cards win over the Rams very sweet today even with the putrid Skelton having to start again-Beanie Wells ran for 228 yards and rookie Patrick Peterson had his fourth punt return for a TD. Sounds like Kolb might be back next week, which is a good thing as they play the Cowboys.

[Dr. Sak]

From the one angle it looked like DPI but from the behind angle I agree that it wasn't DPI.

[hoopsguy]

Boy, Collinsworth is just KILLED Palko for the decisions on each of his last two interceptions. I'm not used to hearing that kind of brutal criticism on NFL broadcasts ... normal MO is almost always to shy away from those kinds of direct/harsh comments on bad plays/players.

[RainMaker]

Just not allowed to play defense against some teams.

[RainMaker]

Just the rules and a huge bias toward certain teams and styles.

[Julio Riddols]

Time for us to see what Stanzi can do.

[Scarecrow]

So there is bad officiating - I just thought it was my bias as a Chiefs fan.

Never heard of a hold by a safety at the line of scrimmage after the sack was made.

Also, can a Steeler receiver not throw up their hands wanting a PI after EVERY throw to them?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Boy, Collinsworth is just KILLED Palko for the decisions on each of his last two interceptions. I'm not used to hearing that kind of brutal criticism on NFL broadcasts ... normal MO is almost always to shy away from those kinds of direct/harsh comments on bad plays/players.

Palko isn't a star.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Boy, Collinsworth is just KILLED Palko for the decisions on each of his last two interceptions. I'm not used to hearing that kind of brutal criticism on NFL broadcasts ... normal MO is almost always to shy away from those kinds of direct/harsh comments on bad plays/players.

he's been getting more bold in his criticisms lately and I enjoy how candid he is. He killed Desean Jackson last week also when he took that taunting penalty.