WW Small Game: The Tudors (Day4 EARLY START! deadline - Friday 5pm ET)

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Unvote Path
vote Eaglesfan

Pssst.. your vote was on me, not path.

[Telle]

Votes as of post 201, assuming that Lathum corrects his unvote:

4 - path12 - Telle (149), henry296 (150), EagleFan (165), laxjunkie62 177
4 - EagleFan - path12 (175), st.cronin (184), Barkeep (193), Lathum (199)

[Telle]

Yet to vote: DaddyTorgo

[st.cronin]

I tend to believe path12 but I don't think its a slamdunk either way. My reasons are: I don't think the wolves would have targeted BK; I think generally the bodyguard protects himself night 1. Putting those two together path's story is more plausible to me.

[path12]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I tend to believe path12 but I don't think its a slamdunk either way. My reasons are: I don't think the wolves would have targeted BK; I think generally the bodyguard protects himself night 1. Putting those two together path's story is more plausible to me.

One thing that's pretty clear to me is that I'm likely dead tonight even if not lynched since I can't protect myself two nights straight.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by path12

One thing that's pretty clear to me is that I'm likely dead tonight even if not lynched since I can't protect myself two nights straight.

Why would you announce that? That's not necessarily the rule in every game. If you are the bodyguard now you've let the wolves know that they can just kill you off tonight.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Telle

Why would you announce that? That's not necessarily the rule in every game. If you are the bodyguard now you've let the wolves know that they can just kill you off tonight.

I would rather have it be unclear. Which you've helped me now do. Thanks!

[Telle]

Originally Posted by path12

I would rather have it be unclear. Which you've helped me now do. Thanks!

Well if you are the body guard then I would much prefer it to be unclear. But personally I'm not convinced by your story and instead think mentioning it is just an attempt to further plant into people's heads the idea that you're the body guard.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Telle

Well if you are the body guard then I would much prefer it to be unclear. But personally I'm not convinced by your story and instead think mentioning it is just an attempt to further plant into people's heads the idea that you're the body guard.

I'm curious. What about my story doesn't jive for you? Just because I wasn't first in thread with it?

Because if that's the case then there's not much I can do. I don't get online mornings until I get to work, which is usually around 11AM Eastern.....

[Telle]

Originally Posted by path12

I'm curious. What about my story doesn't jive for you? Just because I wasn't first in thread with it?

Because if that's the case then there's not much I can do. I don't get online mornings until I get to work, which is usually around 11AM Eastern.....

It's mostly a gut feeling. For every point you make I can see a logical counter-point. Then again, the same can probably be said for EagleFan. I just don't feel as much trust for your story.

[DaddyTorgo]

i didn't realize that it would be 4-4 after my unvote necessarily, but i'm not afraid to make the call if it stays like this and take the burden on myself to tip the scales.

one thing i'd like to point out, without trying to be elitest or whatever:

of the 8 players who have voted, all 4 "grizzled WW-vets" if you want to call them that (path, cronin, barkeep, lathum), all voted for EagleFan. Versus the "newer players" who have voted for path.

Something to keep in mind for later - especially if the votes stay where they are. We know Barkeep is the duke and is good, and i tend to believe Lathum is good (as i said earlier, i assume he would be the N1 scan with barkeep cleared and thus we'd know if he was a wolf b/c the seer would out him. he could still be the traitor though).

where am i going with this: we know path voted for EagleFan out of self-preservation. Which means that if eaglefan turns up a wolf, cronin could very well be the other wolf or the traitor looking to spread out his vote (regardless of whether he moves his vote or not - maybe they choose to play with fire and keep the vote there).

If EagleFan turns out to be a good guy, then clearly Path is the wolf or the traitor. In that instance I think we look then at people who voted for Path, and i would look more strongly at laxjunkie (who voted 2 after path), or at henry who jumped right after Telle (wolf afraid to put down the first vote and wanted to wait and be 2nd?)

hey look - one of my longest WW-posts ever!

[path12]

Originally Posted by Telle

It's mostly a gut feeling. For every point you make I can see a logical counter-point. Then again, the same can probably be said for EagleFan. I just don't feel as much trust for your story.

I guess I don't know what the counter-points would be, but fair enough.

I ask because there's a traitor and another reformer out there, and arguments against my story will lead to some increased scrutiny down the road, as will be shown after lynch.

Though if I were the other wolf, I'd be tossing Eaglefan under the bus right about now.

[DaddyTorgo]

dola

okay maybe not one of my longest EVER, but it sure seemed that way typing it out. think it might be one of my best ever, at least since i returned from my WW-exile.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i didn't realize that it would be 4-4 after my unvote necessarily, but i'm not afraid to make the call if it stays like this and take the burden on myself to tip the scales.

one thing i'd like to point out, without trying to be elitest or whatever:

of the 8 players who have voted, all 4 "grizzled WW-vets" if you want to call them that (path, cronin, barkeep, lathum), all voted for EagleFan. Versus the "newer players" who have voted for path.

Something to keep in mind for later - especially if the votes stay where they are. We know Barkeep is the duke and is good, and i tend to believe Lathum is good (as i said earlier, i assume he would be the N1 scan with barkeep cleared and thus we'd know if he was a wolf b/c the seer would out him. he could still be the traitor though).

where am i going with this: we know path voted for EagleFan out of self-preservation. Which means that if eaglefan turns up a wolf, cronin could very well be the other wolf or the traitor looking to spread out his vote (regardless of whether he moves his vote or not - maybe they choose to play with fire and keep the vote there).

If EagleFan turns out to be a good guy, then clearly Path is the wolf or the traitor. In that instance I think we look then at people who voted for Path, and i would look more strongly at laxjunkie (who voted 2 after path), or at henry who jumped right after Telle (wolf afraid to put down the first vote and wanted to wait and be 2nd?)

hey look - one of my longest WW-posts ever!

I just want to point out that if the seer had busted a wolf (Lathum or somebody else) last night, he may well not come forward today, not with EagleFan coming out with his story so early.

[DaddyTorgo]

path - see my post re: tossing EF under the bus. If you are the bodyguard then i think cronin is likely the other wolf or the traitor.

[DaddyTorgo]

well if not today then he'll likely come out tomorrow if he did find a wolf on either of the first 2 days, and then we'd know for sure on lathum

[Telle]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well if not today then he'll likely come out tomorrow if he did find a wolf on either of the first 2 days, and then we'd know for sure on lathum

But we won't be able to tell if he's the traitor.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Telle

But we won't be able to tell if he's the traitor.

very true. but i'm less worried about that eventuality, because the traitor can't actually eat us.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Telle

But we won't be able to tell if he's the traitor.

I think Telle is actually the traitor. The wolves don't know who the traitor is, so the traitor has to broadcast to them some hints.

[Barkeep49]

As DaddyTorgo has pointed out those of us who might be called old, yes that includes the Royal Person, have seen the fact that there are certain traditions (and traditions do make us who we are as Brits).

It is traditional for the bodyguard to protect himself Night 1. Now we, as the Sovereign, would be a legitimate choice so perhaps that unusual aspect could be overlooked.

And it is also tradition for the reformists to seek the Cardinal of York. Killing the Royal Person does not accomplish that or remove a danger. Perhaps they wished to ignore the threat of the Cardinal. That too would be unusual.

But two unusual aspects? This is why the story of path makes more sense to us and to those who, like us, have seen England rise to glory for many years.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

I think Telle is actually the traitor. The wolves don't know who the traitor is, so the traitor has to broadcast to them some hints.

Don't you think that would be a little TOO obvious?

[DaddyTorgo]

how old are you boss-man?

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Telle

Don't you think that would be a little TOO obvious?

Perhaps, but perhaps not. Sometimes the obvious is the best as it is simple and direct. And in fact my argument today is based off of doing the obvious (or not).

[path12]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

path - see my post re: tossing EF under the bus. If you are the bodyguard then i think cronin is likely the other wolf or the traitor.

I guess it's possible, though I think that it would come from a switch from me to Eaglefan rather than a straight up vote on EF.

One thing I want to clarify about your post though: my vote is not self-preservation at all. My vote is because Eaglefan attacked me last night. I've got no problem with taking a 1-1 trade early in a small game if I get lynched......though of course I'd like the chance for them to try and attack me again tonight.

[DaddyTorgo]

clarification understood.

however i was looking at it from a point of view of "no matter whether he is right or wrong." -- that is to say that if you are in fact the wolf then your vote is self-preservation.

like i have said, i don't necessarily believe this is true, i just view my ww-analysis posts like debates, and i want to be careful to frame everything in as "airtight" a way as possible, at least when the mood strikes.

[st.cronin]

Assuming path is the bodyguard, I think the other wolf would vote for path.

Assuming path is a wolf, I think the other wolf would vote EagleFan.

I think Telle is the traitor, path the bodyguard, and the other wolf is one of henry, lax, or DaddyTorgo. I welcome a seer scan if the seer is suspicious of me.

[Lathum]

I agree with Cronin, I have felt Telle was the traitor all day

[DaddyTorgo]

so you think if path is the bodyguard that both wolves would vote for the same person? so you think the wolves would be who: EF and lax/henry?

if path is a wolf you think the wolves would be: path+you?

we know it's not barkeep, i think we will know if it's lathum (as someone else has said, he'd be a logical choice for a scan and the seer may be sitting on the result today), although I believe it's not. And I know it's not me.

or maybe by leaving telle out of the equation cronin you are actually the traitor and you are trying to hide telle (who also has voted for path)

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I agree with Cronin, I have felt Telle was the traitor all day

For what reason? Anything more than gut reaction?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so you think if path is the bodyguard that both wolves would vote for the same person? so you think the wolves would be who: EF and lax/henry?

Yes, although I wouldn't bet a lot of money on it. I'm just saying who I would want to look at if I were the seer.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

if path is a wolf you think the wolves would be: path+you?

Um, actually I'd probably go with path+DT.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

or maybe by leaving telle out of the equation cronin you are actually the traitor and you are trying to hide telle (who also has voted for path)

Well, again, if the seer wants to scan Telle, that's fine. I actually don't really think it matters who the traitor is, I think its mostly a distraction.

[DaddyTorgo]

the traitor is a distraction.

but DT is definately not the other wolf (or the traitor), i can tell you that with 100% certainty.

[EagleFan]

It looks like I'm victime of the elitists.

I'm not going to try to beg to defend myself like wolfy path is. This will be my last post on the matter actually. I told everyone what happened last night. You can either believed me and lynch a wolf in path or lynch your body guard by lynching me. With the way this king rewards loyalty I don;t really care what the decision is at this point.

My choices last night:

Protect myself, why would the wolves come after me night one as I'm not a high profile player?

Protect BK, he is a known member in the CoT now and the only publicly known role. Known CoT members are valuable, why leave one out to dry?

Protect a random person, why protect someone whom I have no idea if they are a wolf, the seer or just vanilla?


With the goal of winning the game the only smart play there is to protect a known CoT when there is no heat on me at that time.


I'll be online and may post about other things but nothing about the vote at this point as the elitists seem to have their little clique. The only time I start to beg and plead when I'm on the chopping block is when I am actually a wolf. When I'm not my take is the hell with them if they want to lose the game by lynching a villager.

[Barkeep49]

Eagle if you are who you say you are, we will not forget your sacrifice or our error.

[DaddyTorgo]

i think as i outlined, either way, this has provided us with a lot of information as to potentially who the other reformists are.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

It looks like I'm victime of the elitists.

Dropping character for a moment I think this is unfair. In the last two games alone we've had:

My arguing hard for Lathum to be lynched Day 1 (successfully enough that Lathum was forced to reveal)
Alan arguing hard for me to be lynched Day 2 (successfully)
Alan openly thinking of duking hoops AFTER hoops has been seer scanned

And that's just off the top of my head from the last two games. I think the charge of elitism isn't really fair.

[DaddyTorgo]

i agree. and i'm sorry that my post was maybe what spurred it. i was simply pointing out where the votes currently were at and happened to notice that pattern.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Dropping character for a moment I think this is unfair. In the last two games alone we've had:

My arguing hard for Lathum to be lynched Day 1 (successfully enough that Lathum was forced to reveal)
Alan arguing hard for me to be lynched Day 2 (successfully)
Alan openly thinking of duking hoops AFTER hoops has been seer scanned

And that's just off the top of my head from the last two games. I think the charge of elitism isn't really fair.

and you forgot the fustercluck that was lathum and me both on the block on d1 in that game and having to reveal as seer and bodyguard.

we bite the hand that feeds us just as often as we "clique" together I'd say. There's no rhyme, reason, or pattern. Everyone wants to win every game.

This may just be a desperate attempt by EagleFan to try to curry some sympathy-votes and sway things...

[DaddyTorgo]

headed home in a minute. will be around by like 8pm at the latest (hopefully closer to 7:30) and will vote then.

wonder if there will be any movement in the interim

[EagleFan]

If it matters, here's a wuick take so far:

1) DaddyTorgo - no real read yet
2) Lathum - He could be playing a wolf right in our face, or just having fun f'ing with people with his vote shifts yesterday
3) Henry296 - something is saying wolf to me here but nothing concrete yet
4) St.Cronin - he is always in my suspect list since he fooled me in my initial WW game, I haven't gotten any read off his play yet
5) Eaglefan - CoT, but of course I would say that no matter what
6) Telle - I don't remember ever being in a game where she was a wolf, except one ercent game because of conversion, she usually hase a good role in the games I am in so she gets the benefit of the doubt so far
7) laxjunkie62 - I know nothing of the external issues here and don't really care to judge anything I have no past experience with, in relation to the game he has not shown anything wolfish as of yet
8) Path12 - wolf, don't turn your back on him
9) Barkeep49 - CoT, not much else to say here as it's a proven fact and is something to be protected

Actually I guess that wasn't a lot of help but it's not like we have much to go on yet.

[henry296]

I don't see a vote from DT? Where is it?

[path12]

Originally Posted by henry296

I don't see a vote from DT? Where is it?

He hasn't voted yet.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by henry296

I don't see a vote from DT? Where is it?

He hath not yet decided how to vote.

[EagleFan]

Anyone watch the game last night?

[DaddyTorgo]

DT is here now and intends to vote. Wanted to see if my lack of voting caused any motion.

[DaddyTorgo]

clearly it did not.

[EagleFan]

Anyone watching this game? I don't think I've ever seen a WW game so quiet.

[EagleFan]

As of 247

4 - path12 - Telle (149), henry296 (150), EagleFan (165), laxjunkie62 (177)
4 - EagleFan - path12 (175), st.cronin (184), Barkeep (193), Lathum (199)

[EagleFan]

It looks like the call is yours DT.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Anyone watching this game? I don't think I've ever seen a WW game so quiet.

We are paying close attention to this game. You are right that there has not been much said, but there has been plenty of going ons. A more relaxing pace is just the sort of thing we feel an intimate setting such as this is great for.