The OFFICIAL 2009 NFL Offseason Thread - What else comes in 3's? Firing OC's! - Page 5

JPhillips · 03-02-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

Houshmandzadeh to Seattle for 5 years and $40 million (around $15 million guaranteed). Haven't seen a yearly breakdown yet, but apparently this beat Cincy's deal (5/35) and wasn't quite what I had read he was asking for (4/40). Not sure if I'm excited about this one though. Haven't seen much of him live, but looking at his numbers it looks like the last 2 years were a drop off from his first 5, so hopefully we can get at least 2-3 years of him at his current level before another drop off.

And hopefully they still nab Crabtree if he's there at #4.

He'll be good for a couple of years. Don't worry about YPC, especially last season when Palmer was out. The offense has him constantly running the under routes because he'll catch anything. He's maybe the best third down receiver in the NFL right now. Sorry to lose him, but realistically the Bengals wouldn't be a serious contender even with him.

stevew · 03-02-2009, 10:47 PM

I'm not sad to see him leave the division. Guys a real player and yeah, he will catch everything. Hopefully Matt doesn't try to kill him like Carson often did.

Travis · 03-02-2009, 11:03 PM

Well, fingers crossed that with only $15 million in guaranteed money that there is some back loading here so that it's really more like a 3 year deal that will still leave the team with enough room to consider Crabtree at #4 (if he's still there). Being able to have Burleson as our #4 instead of in the top 3 would give them great options for the return game as well as being able to present some pretty fun personnel groupings for defenses to adjust to. That said, if Carlson goes down for any extended period of time there's really no backup plan currently in place.

Swaggs · 03-02-2009, 11:13 PM

Steelers lose Nate Washington to the Titans. Haven't seen the terms yet.

Probably a good fit for him. He is one of the more athletic receivers in the league, has great size, and seems to be able to get open pretty well. Unfortunately, he has below average hands, but I would expect him to do pretty well and put up decent numbers as a #1 or #2. Would have liked to have kept him, but with Ward, Holmes, and Sweed, there probably was not enough remaining money allocated for him as a #3 with the Steelers.

stevew · 03-02-2009, 11:17 PM

I really hope we can land a vet WR in FA. I'd take Galloway if his physical checks out. Steelers also should be looking corner, safety and both lines in the first 3 rounds.

Swaggs · 03-02-2009, 11:19 PM

Dola...

Looks like Washington gets 6-year/$27M, with $9M guaranteed.

Probably not a ridiculous deal, but after using a #2 on Sweed last season, not worth it for Pittsburgh. I didn't realize that he was just 25-years old, so he probably could continue to improve.

Swaggs · 03-02-2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I really hope we can land a vet WR in FA. I'd take Galloway if his physical checks out. Steelers also should be looking corner, safety and both lines in the first 3 rounds.

Sean Morey?

DeToxRox · 03-02-2009, 11:20 PM

Yah. Seems like Nate was going to come here but he wanted more money to play for an 0-16 team (which makes sense) and when the Lions got Johnson, I held out hope we'd get him still but it wasn't in the cards.

Swaggs · 03-02-2009, 11:31 PM

I'm not sure if he'd consider himself a #3 receiver (or want to be paid more like a starter), but Amani Toomer might be a good 2-year fix for the Steelers. He has good size and is probably still fit enough to beat nickel or dime backs fairly regularly in 3-wide sets.

stevew · 03-02-2009, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Sean Morey?

I was just gonna post how if we can get rid of Lord Tyrone and Kirschke we'll finally be done with the "Cowher Guys". And here you are talking about another.

And maybe it's just me, but the guys that leave never are as good as when they were here. I'd still take Hope and Peezy, but they do a damn good job of sucking the life outta players it seems.

Swaggs · 03-02-2009, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I was just gonna post how if we can get rid of Lord Tyrone and Kirschke we'll finally be done with the "Cowher Guys". And here you are talking about another.

And maybe it's just me, but the guys that leave never are as good as when they were here. I'd still take Hope and Peezy, but they do a damn good job of sucking the life outta players it seems.

Arizona would probably consider Morey untouchable. Whisenhut seems to have held on to the tradition of "Cowher Guys." Wouldn't surprise me to see Kordell become their QB coach at some point.

stevew · 03-02-2009, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm not sure if he'd consider himself a #3 receiver (or want to be paid more like a starter), but Amani Toomer might be a good 2-year fix for the Steelers. He has good size and is probably still fit enough to beat nickel or dime backs fairly regularly in 3-wide sets.

I'd prefer we sign someone who got cut, just to get comps for Washington and McFadden. Also I'd seriously consider offer sheeting Lance Moore for a 2nd rounder. Ward won't be here forever. Depends on how much Moore wants.

sabotai · 03-03-2009, 04:54 PM

Derrick Ward signed with the TB Bucs. Hope he does well with them, except if and when they play the Giants.

cartman · 03-03-2009, 07:00 PM

And it is the worst case scenario for the guys on the boat. The Coast Guard called off their search at 6:30pm Eastern.

Qwikshot · 03-03-2009, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cartman

And it is the worst case scenario for the guys on the boat. The Coast Guard called off their search at 6:30pm Eastern.

Those guys were probably goners the moment they left the boat. It's a tragedy.

Buccaneer · 03-03-2009, 07:15 PM

Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution.

I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

Qwikshot · 03-03-2009, 07:39 PM

What are the Eagles doing?

Shawn Springs?

Really?

Swaggs · 03-03-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution.

I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

That sounds like reasonable logic. It would improve the 49ers while weakening the division champs or, at worst, they drive up the price and make the Cards "overpay" for Warner.

Suburban Rhythm · 03-03-2009, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I was just gonna post how if we can get rid of Lord Tyrone and Kirschke we'll finally be done with the "Cowher Guys". And here you are talking about another.

And maybe it's just me, but the guys that leave never are as good as when they were here. I'd still take Hope and Peezy, but they do a damn good job of sucking the life outta players it seems.

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I'd prefer we sign someone who got cut, just to get comps for Washington and McFadden. Also I'd seriously consider offer sheeting Lance Moore for a 2nd rounder. Ward won't be here forever. Depends on how much Moore wants.

Moore, or Shaun McDonald is available. Not great, but nice as a slot guy, still pretty quick. Just won't replace Nate as a deep threat.

sabotai · 03-04-2009, 10:27 PM

Giants signed Safety CC Brown (Houston) today. He'll be replacing James Butler (who I thought was overrated).

Scarecrow · 03-05-2009, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution.

I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

So Damon Huard is a better solution?
San Francisco 49ers bring back LB Takeo Spikes, add Damon Huard to QB mix - ESPN

Julio Riddols · 03-05-2009, 06:52 AM

Looks like Cincy is going to replace Housh with Laveranues Coles. Not a bad replacement. Maybe even a little more of a big play type who can stretch the d and return some kicks.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 03-05-2009, 07:16 AM

The contract they gave Coles is pretty ridiculous.

Butter · 03-05-2009, 08:01 AM

I thought that too, RD2... that's way too much money for him.

JPhillips · 03-05-2009, 08:33 AM

Yeah, 28 over four is a bit much, especially knowing that Brown is very reluctant to release guys. Good to see another wideout in front of our three 2008 draft picks.

Galaxy · 03-05-2009, 01:24 PM

T.O. released by the Cowboys.

MikeVic · 03-05-2009, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

BITE YOUR TONGUE!!

Moore, or Shaun McDonald is available. Not great, but nice as a slot guy, still pretty quick. Just won't replace Nate as a deep threat.

I think they may try Sweed as a deep threat? I know he dropped two open passes in the playoffs, but I liked his blocking hit after one of those drops... and the fact that he actually got open was nice to see.

DataKing · 03-05-2009, 01:33 PM

The Cowboys have released Roy Williams. He could be a nice replacement for Mike Brown at safety for the Bears, but I'm concerned about the sort of price tag he may have. Still he's only 28, so a bit younger than a lot of the big-name free agents out there.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 03-05-2009, 01:34 PM

Depends on whether you're interesting in your safeties being good, or just blowing coverage after coverage and occasionally putting a big hit on.

DeToxRox · 03-05-2009, 01:34 PM

Roy Williams just needs to gain 10 lbs and play OLB. He still could't cover a TE though.

Galaxy · 03-05-2009, 01:38 PM

Cowboys releasing T.O. and Roy Williams at the same time? Wow.

albionmoonlight · 03-05-2009, 01:39 PM

Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers?

Or is it that his mesurables are such that we assume he is a top five talent regardless of the offensive style?

Edit--just to be clear, I am not saying that he isn't that good. Just that I have not heard anyone question whether a Run and Shoot receiver might be hard to project into the NFL.

DeToxRox · 03-05-2009, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers?

Or is it that his mesurables are such that we assume he is a top five talent regardless of the offensive style?

Crabtree is a monster. He has long arms, which makes up for his being only like 6'1". What he does well is he attacks the ball. He goes up and gets it. Plus he runs good routes, and never gives up on plays. He's like an Anquan Boldin, but faster. This could would've been a stud in any offense.

Danny · 03-05-2009, 02:03 PM

Woot, great news here. Javon Walker restructured his contract, giving lots of money back overall and reducing his cap figure from 10 million to 2 million for this season. The Raiders would have faced a 11 million cap hit this year if they released him under his old contract, so this is great news. At least that horrid contract they gave him last off season is rectified now.

SFGate: Raiders Silver and Black Blog : Breaking news: Javon takes paycut

watravaler · 03-05-2009, 02:14 PM

Respectable move by Walker...

RainMaker · 03-05-2009, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DataKing

The Cowboys have released Roy Williams. He could be a nice replacement for Mike Brown at safety for the Bears, but I'm concerned about the sort of price tag he may have. Still he's only 28, so a bit younger than a lot of the big-name free agents out there.

Interesting option although the Bears biggest problem last year was pass defense. Williams is a huge liability out there. I could see him alongside Brown which would allow him to play the pass and Williams the run. Could also swap him out on passing downs with one of our faster safeties.

RainMaker · 03-05-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Crabtree is a monster. He has long arms, which makes up for his being only like 6'1". What he does well is he attacks the ball. He goes up and gets it. Plus he runs good routes, and never gives up on plays. He's like an Anquan Boldin, but faster. This could would've been a stud in any offense.

That's how I see him too. I don't think he'll ever be an elite WR or considered amongst the best in the NFL, but I think he'll have a real solid career. Probably make a few Pro Bowls and get in the top 10 in receptions/yards in many years.

Travis · 03-05-2009, 05:10 PM

How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver?

I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well.

Lathum · 03-05-2009, 05:15 PM

[quote=albionmoonlight;1961163]Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers?
QUOTE]

One of my best friends, who is also a casual poster here, is the Video editor for a BCS conference team ( I want to respect his privacy) and also used to work on the Redskins staff.

He has seen thousands of hours of tape and been involved in many sessions. He says Crabtree is a product of the system, and while very talented, not nearly as skilled as he is made out to be.

RainMaker · 03-05-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver?

I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well.

When I say elite level, I mean the top few receivers in football. The guys that scare the living daylight out of defensive coordinators. Larry Fitzgerald, Randy Moss, Andre Johnson come to mind. I don't think he'll ever reach that level. I think he'll be in that tier underneath them. Guys like Hines Ward, Laverneus Coles, Joe Horn type careers.

fantom1979 · 03-05-2009, 07:24 PM

Top Receivers the last 3 years... not sure why this is relevant, but the post about the elite receivers made me wonder the difference between those that i perceive as elite compared to who the stats say are elite.

Reggie Wayne	3	30	272	3965	25
Larry Fitzgerald	3	25	265	3786	28
Steve Smith	3	29	248	3589	21
Terrell Owens	3	35	235	3587	38
Andre Johnson	3	27	278	3573	21
Donald Driver	3	33	248	3355	15
Chad Johnson	3	30	233	3349	19
Torry Holt	3	32	250	3173	20
Lee Evans	3	27	200	3158	16
Tony Gonzalez	3	32	268	3130	20
T.J. Houshmandzadeh	3	31	294	3128	25
Anquan Boldin	3	28	243	3094	24
Roddy White	3	27	201	3090	13
Randy Moss	3	31	209	3054	37
Braylon Edwards	3	25	196	3046	25
Wes Welker	3	27	290	3027	12
Marques Colston	3	25	215	3000	24
Jerricho Cotchery	3	26	235	2949	13
Brandon Marshall	3	24	226	2899	15
Derrick Mason	3	34	251	2874	12

Edit... Accidentally combined the two Steve Smith's before.

sterlingice · 03-05-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

That's how I see him too. I don't think he'll ever be an elite WR or considered amongst the best in the NFL, but I think he'll have a real solid career. Probably make a few Pro Bowls and get in the top 10 in receptions/yards in many years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travis

How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver?

I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well.

How about something like the career path of Rod Smith? Never the best in the league, but you could definitely use him as a #1, was on the top 10 quite a few times in his career and made the Pro Bowl 3 times.

If you drafted Crabtree and knew you would be getting Rod Smith, would that be ok?

SI

Galaxy · 03-05-2009, 08:22 PM

Do you feel that receivers can be overvalued? If you got a quality offense with a quarterback who can make those throws, is an "elite" receiver going to be that much of an upgrade over a "good" receiver?

DeToxRox · 03-05-2009, 08:23 PM

An elite WR is quite an upgrade over a good WR.

Few in the NFL can do what Larry Fitz, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson can do. Have a 6'5 WR who can jump out of the stadium makes an okay QB good, a good QB great, and in some instances, a great QB elite.

fantom1979 · 03-05-2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

How about something like the career path of Rod Smith? Never the best in the league, but you could definitely use him as a #1, was on the top 10 quite a few times in his career and made the Pro Bowl 3 times.

If you drafted Crabtree and knew you would be getting Rod Smith, would that be ok?

SI

If I thought I was getting Rod Smith, I would be thrilled. Rod Smith had a 6 year run where he was very good. The year he had 1600 yards he had Brian Griese and Gus Frerotte throwing to him (who both actually had a pretty good year).

You could always flip the coin and end up with David Terrell or Charles Rogers

sterlingice · 03-05-2009, 10:21 PM

That's why I thought he was a good name to throw out there. I think some people would be disappointed if they took a WR in the top 5 and he was "only" Rod Smith and not Moss or Fitz or Steve Smith or TO in terms of overall talent. I certainly would not be among them

SI

JPhillips · 03-05-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That's why I thought he was a good name to throw out there. I think some people would be disappointed if they took a WR in the top 5 and he was "only" Rod Smith and not Moss or Fitz or Steve Smith or TO in terms of overall talent. I certainly would not be among them

SI

I'd sure as hell take Smith over Peter Warrick.

tucker rocky · 03-06-2009, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

T.O. released by the Cowboys.

He'll end up just like Joe Horn.
Retired, and out of work.

No team wants an ego trip player like him.
He's 35, and on the backside of his career.

Not even a deep-pocketed team like the Redskins will take him.

fantom1979 · 03-06-2009, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

He'll end up just like Joe Horn.
Retired, and out of work.

No team wants an ego trip player like him.
He's 35, and on the backside of his career.

Not even a deep-pocketed team like the Redskins will take him.

I am going to bet against you here. I really believe that someone will take a chance on him.

gstelmack · 03-06-2009, 09:43 AM

Patriots trade a 5th round pick to the Eagles for Greg Lewis and a 7th rounder in 2010. Gives them some depth at receiver.

They also sign CB Shawn Springs in FA.

03-02-2009, 11:03 PM	#203
Travis Pro Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada eh	Well, fingers crossed that with only $15 million in guaranteed money that there is some back loading here so that it's really more like a 3 year deal that will still leave the team with enough room to consider Crabtree at #4 (if he's still there). Being able to have Burleson as our #4 instead of in the top 3 would give them great options for the return game as well as being able to present some pretty fun personnel groupings for defenses to adjust to. That said, if Carlson goes down for any extended period of time there's really no backup plan currently in place. __________________ "I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." - Rogers Hornsby

03-02-2009, 11:13 PM	#204
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Steelers lose Nate Washington to the Titans. Haven't seen the terms yet. Probably a good fit for him. He is one of the more athletic receivers in the league, has great size, and seems to be able to get open pretty well. Unfortunately, he has below average hands, but I would expect him to do pretty well and put up decent numbers as a #1 or #2. Would have liked to have kept him, but with Ward, Holmes, and Sweed, there probably was not enough remaining money allocated for him as a #3 with the Steelers. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

03-02-2009, 11:19 PM	#206
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Dola... Looks like Washington gets 6-year/$27M, with $9M guaranteed. Probably not a ridiculous deal, but after using a #2 on Sweed last season, not worth it for Pittsburgh. I didn't realize that he was just 25-years old, so he probably could continue to improve. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

03-02-2009, 11:31 PM	#209
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I'm not sure if he'd consider himself a #3 receiver (or want to be paid more like a starter), but Amani Toomer might be a good 2-year fix for the Steelers. He has good size and is probably still fit enough to beat nickel or dime backs fairly regularly in 3-wide sets. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

03-03-2009, 07:00 PM	#214
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	And it is the worst case scenario for the guys on the boat. The Coast Guard called off their search at 6:30pm Eastern. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

03-02-2009, 10:47 PM	#202
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I'm not sad to see him leave the division. Guys a real player and yeah, he will catch everything. Hopefully Matt doesn't try to kill him like Carson often did.

03-02-2009, 11:17 PM	#205
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I really hope we can land a vet WR in FA. I'd take Galloway if his physical checks out. Steelers also should be looking corner, safety and both lines in the first 3 rounds.

03-02-2009, 11:20 PM	#208
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Yah. Seems like Nate was going to come here but he wanted more money to play for an 0-16 team (which makes sense) and when the Lions got Johnson, I held out hope we'd get him still but it wasn't in the cards.

03-03-2009, 04:54 PM	#213
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Derrick Ward signed with the TB Bucs. Hope he does well with them, except if and when they play the Giants.

03-03-2009, 07:15 PM	#216
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Word on the street in SF is that the fan base and the media (sfgate) doesn't want the Niners to persue Kurt Warner. It's not a knock against Kurt but against implemented yet another short-term solution. I countered that the Niners perhaps see an opportunity to challenge a Warner-less Cards for the division.

03-03-2009, 07:39 PM	#217
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	What are the Eagles doing? Shawn Springs? Really? __________________ "General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams

03-04-2009, 10:27 PM	#220
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Giants signed Safety CC Brown (Houston) today. He'll be replacing James Butler (who I thought was overrated).

03-05-2009, 06:52 AM	#222
Julio Riddols College Prospect Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Bryson Shitty, NC	Looks like Cincy is going to replace Housh with Laveranues Coles. Not a bad replacement. Maybe even a little more of a big play type who can stretch the d and return some kicks. __________________ Recklessly enthused, stubbornly amused. FUCK EA

03-05-2009, 07:16 AM	#223
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	The contract they gave Coles is pretty ridiculous. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

03-05-2009, 08:01 AM	#224
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I thought that too, RD2... that's way too much money for him. __________________ My listening habits

03-05-2009, 08:33 AM	#225
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Yeah, 28 over four is a bit much, especially knowing that Brown is very reluctant to release guys. Good to see another wideout in front of our three 2008 draft picks. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-05-2009, 01:24 PM	#226
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	T.O. released by the Cowboys.

03-05-2009, 01:33 PM	#228
DataKing Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Chicago	The Cowboys have released Roy Williams. He could be a nice replacement for Mike Brown at safety for the Bears, but I'm concerned about the sort of price tag he may have. Still he's only 28, so a bit younger than a lot of the big-name free agents out there. __________________ Current Games Diablo III (BattleTag: DataKing#1685) Allegiances: Chicago Bears - Detroit Red Wings - Kansas Jayhawks Awards: 2011 Golden Scribe - Other Sports Category (The Straight(away) and Narrow - A Forza Motorsport 3 Dynasty)

03-05-2009, 01:34 PM	#229
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Depends on whether you're interesting in your safeties being good, or just blowing coverage after coverage and occasionally putting a big hit on. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

03-05-2009, 01:34 PM	#230
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Roy Williams just needs to gain 10 lbs and play OLB. He still could't cover a TE though.

03-05-2009, 01:38 PM	#231
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	Cowboys releasing T.O. and Roy Williams at the same time? Wow.

03-05-2009, 01:39 PM	#232
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers? Or is it that his mesurables are such that we assume he is a top five talent regardless of the offensive style? Edit--just to be clear, I am not saying that he isn't that good. Just that I have not heard anyone question whether a Run and Shoot receiver might be hard to project into the NFL. Last edited by albionmoonlight : 03-05-2009 at 01:40 PM.

03-05-2009, 02:03 PM	#234
Danny Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	Woot, great news here. Javon Walker restructured his contract, giving lots of money back overall and reducing his cap figure from 10 million to 2 million for this season. The Raiders would have faced a 11 million cap hit this year if they released him under his old contract, so this is great news. At least that horrid contract they gave him last off season is rectified now. SFGate: Raiders Silver and Black Blog : Breaking news: Javon takes paycut

03-05-2009, 02:14 PM	#235
watravaler High School JV Join Date: Jun 2005	Respectable move by Walker...

03-05-2009, 05:10 PM	#238
Travis Pro Rookie Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Canada eh	How are a few pro bowls and top 10 in receptions/yards numerous times (and likely TD's given his skill set) not the same as being an elite level receiver? I'm a bit biased on how I think he'll produce at the next level, but if you're giving me that sort of resume, I'd give him the elite sticker to go with it as well. __________________ "I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." - Rogers Hornsby

03-05-2009, 05:15 PM	#239
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	[quote=albionmoonlight;1961163]Is Crabtree really that good? The only thing I have seen of him is the highlight of the catch against Texas. We seem to have all decided that the Run and Shoot makes QBs hard to evaluate. Why is that not also true of receivers? QUOTE] One of my best friends, who is also a casual poster here, is the Video editor for a BCS conference team ( I want to respect his privacy) and also used to work on the Redskins staff. He has seen thousands of hours of tape and been involved in many sessions. He says Crabtree is a product of the system, and while very talented, not nearly as skilled as he is made out to be.

03-05-2009, 08:22 PM	#243
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	Do you feel that receivers can be overvalued? If you got a quality offense with a quarterback who can make those throws, is an "elite" receiver going to be that much of an upgrade over a "good" receiver?

03-05-2009, 08:23 PM	#244
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	An elite WR is quite an upgrade over a good WR. Few in the NFL can do what Larry Fitz, Andre Johnson and Calvin Johnson can do. Have a 6'5 WR who can jump out of the stadium makes an okay QB good, a good QB great, and in some instances, a great QB elite.

03-05-2009, 10:21 PM	#246
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	That's why I thought he was a good name to throw out there. I think some people would be disappointed if they took a WR in the top 5 and he was "only" Rod Smith and not Moss or Fitz or Steve Smith or TO in terms of overall talent. I certainly would not be among them SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 03-05-2009 at 10:22 PM.

03-06-2009, 09:43 AM	#250
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	Patriots trade a 5th round pick to the Eagles for Greg Lewis and a 7th rounder in 2010. Gives them some depth at receiver. They also sign CB Shawn Springs in FA. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

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