Werewolf CLXVII - The Wheel of Time - Game Over

[timmae]

That sucked... sorry EF.

[The Jackal]

1) genuinely thought the deadline was at 10, my bad

2) wish EF had said something earlier

[fontisian]

Seriously. One minute before the deadline?

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by timmae

That sucked... sorry EF.

It sucks we lost a seer, but he was tied with you and Grover, dropped Grover to start a very late run on someone, then jumped to you when what he had done was going to backfire.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Good luck village.

Ugh, I live in Central time so I misremembered the deadline and didn't move my meta!!!

[britrock88]

Looking at the Brown description, I think EF was something like a truth seer, as opposed to a typical alignment seer. But I also think he would be the only one of his kind, so... that stinks.

[Autumn]

DEADLINE

[Autumn]

The night seems longer and darker following the loss of one of the Aes Sedai. She was one who knew best how to seek out those who hid in the dark to do evil, and now you are without her presence. It makes for a fitful night all across the land, full of furtive noises and desperate worries.

In the morning the criers spread the news. In the great nation of Tear, in the Stone of Tear itself, someone was found dead, murdered in the night. Worse still, there is hardly a sign of struggle. Was the person caught off guard, surprised by a friend who served the Shadow? Maybe not. For those who knew Fontisian knew that she was a Tinker, one of the nomad people who follow the Way of the Leaf and refuse to do violence. It seems that she did not even resist the killer, but that did not bring her any mercy.

Fontisian was a member of the Tear faction. She was the Tinker. the Tinker had an additional goal of converting all remaining players to the Way of the Leaf. Every night she could choose one player to convert.

[Autumn]

Eagle Fan was the sister of the Brown Ajah. As an expert in the history of the Shadow and its network of Darkfriends, she had the ability to investigate a player every night to determine if they were a Darkfriend.

[Autumn]

Day 2 has begun.

[timmae]

Not a good start... was font an independent player? I don't see mention of Way of the Leaf.

[Vaimes]

Let's try this again.

Vote timmae

[Vaimes]

That super awkward moment when you're catching up and have EF as your first townread.

[britrock88]

(Just a broadcast that I'm traveling over the next few days, so I won't have time for things like voting tables. I'll certainly be reading and posting along, though. )

[britrock88]

Vote Grover

Pushing here to start because of the point others mentioned about the momentum away from him in the late going.

[Glengoyne]

Oops I've been away, and just popped in to check the board. I'll catch up. Gotta get to a PC to check my PMs

[path12]

Shit. That couldn't have been much worse. EF, I like that you play loose but GODDAMNIT YOU WERE THE SEER YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL.

Font too. Now I'm sad. For those who know the books is there significance to the Way of the Leaf?

[path12]

Originally Posted by britrock88

(Just a broadcast that I'm traveling over the next few days, so I won't have time for things like voting tables. I'll certainly be reading and posting along, though. )

I can put one together in the morning. I've had enough beer to not want to do it tonight.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Vote Grover

Pushing here to start because of the point others mentioned about the momentum away from him in the late going.

As I read through the thread, I was thinking this way as well. Then EF turned out to be a good guy, so I guess I'm no longer suspicious that EF and Grover are/were associated to one another.

I'll read those last couple of pages again in the morning when I've got more coffee and less benadryl on board.

[Narcizo]

What's with the "not revealing as seer" business? At least make the shadow use a night kill on you and run the risk of being blocked by a potential bodyguard. But Eagle knows all that so I got nothing.

As far as font's death goes I guess that shows that at least one wolf was paying attention in the last game so it doesn't really tell us anything useful. Of course it could mean that timmae is bad/someone wants us to think timmae is bad but it's always impossible to read that sort of thing. (For me anyway).

[cheekimonk]

This is my 2nd game and my 1st was vanilla so I want to verify. My assumption is that special abilities can only be used as night actions unless otherwise stated ("can be used at any time"). This means EF's "hunch" about Jackal was just a hunch, being Day 1, and not from his Brown Ajah ability.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by path12

Shit. That couldn't have been much worse. EF, I like that you play loose but GODDAMNIT YOU WERE THE SEER YOU NEED TO BE CAREFUL.

Agreed. I was the last vote on him but he did directly put himself in danger, and thus called attention to himself, to start a run on Jackal (who had 1 vote at the time I think?) which was immediately followed by Zinto. Why do that unless he had good reason to think (know?) others would follow his lead? My logic anyway...

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

As I read through the thread, I was thinking this way as well. Then EF turned out to be a good guy, so I guess I'm no longer suspicious that EF and Grover are/were associated to one another.

I'll read those last couple of pages again in the morning when I've got more coffee and less benadryl on board.

I don't think EF being a goodie clears Grover. I didn't see his play as getting votes off Grover but to trigger an "ah, we overlooked him" response on Jackal. His vote just happened to be on Grover. And being Day 1, I don't know that it says anything about Jackal either.

[Narcizo]

Yeah I think it can only have been a hunch. Possibly he planned on scanning Jackal and was signalling the fact for later or laying the groundwork for a drive on him today.

[cheekimonk]

Originally Posted by path12

Font too. Now I'm sad. For those who know the books is there significance to the Way of the Leaf?

All I know is that after my first game with her I find it incredibly ironic that she was tagged with the Way of the Leaf ("people who follow the Way of the Leaf and refuse to do violence.") Would have been interesting with a passive font in the game.

[Narcizo]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Vote Grover

Pushing here to start because of the point others mentioned about the momentum away from him in the late going.

Lazy vote is possibly a wolf vote. Looks like you're slapping your vote onto whomever looks the easiest target without giving it a lot of thought there Brit. Even if we didn't know that Eagle was a good guy I'd be hard pressed to follow the logic of how Grover looks suspicious coz of the shift but with Eagle coming up good it just makes no sense to me.

Vote Britrock

[Narcizo]

22:15 #80 Fontisian votes Vaimes (1)
22:25 #82 timmae votes cheekimonk (1)
22:27 #83 Vaimes votes timmae (1)
20:28 #84 fontisian unvotes Vaimes (0)
20:28 #84 fontisian votes timmae (2)
08:39 #94 Coffee votes Jackal (1)
09:51 #96 Britrock votes Eagle (1)
09:58 #97 Jackal votes Grover (1)

12:02 #106 Zinto votes Grover (2)
12:29 #107 cheekimonk votes Eagle (2)
12:40 #109 Path votes Britrock (1)
12:52 #110 Grover votes Vaimes (1)
13:36 #112 MartinD votes Jackal (2)
14:09 #113 Narcizo votes Eagle (3)
14:37 #114 Eagle votes cheeki (1)

18:00 #135 Chief votes timmae (3)
18:04 #136 cheeki unvotes Eagle (2)
18:04 #136 cheeki votes font (1)
18:17 #138 timmae unvotes cheeki (0)
18:17 #138 timmae votes Glengoyne (1)
18:53 #141 Eagle unvotes cheeki (0)
18:53 #141 Eagle votes Grover (3)
19:01 #143 Path unvotes Britrock (0)
19:01 #143 Path votes Raven (1)
19:18 #147 Path unvotes Raven (0)
19:18 #147 Path votes Grover (4)

19:21 #148 Jackal unvotes Grover (3)
19:21 #148 Jackal votes Eagle (3)
19:26 #150 timmae unvotes glengoyne (0)
19:26 #150 timmae votes Raven (1)
19:27 #151 Martin unvotes Jackal (1)
19:27 #151 Martin votes timmae (4)
19:48 #153 timmae unvotes Raven (0)
19:48 #153 timmae votes Eagle (4)
20:06 #155 cheeki unvotes font (0)
20:06 #155 cheeki votes Grover (4)

20:23 #157 Eagle unvotes Grover (3)
20:23 #157 Eagle votes Jackal (2)
20:37 #160 Zinto unvotes Grover (2)
20:37 #160 Zinto votes Jackal (3)
20:39 #163 cheeki unvotes Grover (1)
20:39 #163 cheeki votes Eagle (5)
20:47 #170 Coffee unvotes Jackal (2)
20:47 #170 Coffee votes Grover (2)
20:52 #182 fonti unvotes timmae (3)
20:52 #182 fonti votes Jackal (3)
20:57 #190 Eagle unvotes Jackal (2)
20:57 #190 Eagle votes timmae (4)


Day 1 Vote

EagleFan [5] - britrock88 (96), Narcizo (113), The Jackal (148), timmae (153), cheekimonk (163)
Timmae [4] - vaimes (83), Chief Rum (135), MartinD (151), EagleFan (190)
The Jackal [2] - Zinto (160), fontisian (182)
Grover [2] - path12 (147), Coffee Warlord (170)
Vaimes [1] - Grover (110)

No Vote: Glengoyne, Raven

[Narcizo]

Hmm ... there is a possible connection between Jackal and Coffee, in that "looking" at a possible connection between Eagle and Grover allowed Coffee to move his vote off of Jackal when momentum was building against him. I don't really think that Coffee is one to put an early wolfmate vote in on day one AND THEN move it later. I think he guts it out if he decides to vote wolf. So I think I'll stick with Britrock for the time being.

[timmae]

Reading back through the roleset... not sure about "Way of the Leaf" and what that may mean. Maybe just a subset/further descriptor of Tear.

It appears there are now 4 (4+) Aes Sedai. The remaining Ajah's and possible Warders. I am in this group but don't want to say more at this point.

Aiels - Unknown number. Are these the typical "villager" roles?

Illian - Unknown number... hunters for the horn.

Tear - Unknown roles, numbers.

That's at least 6... possibly more if Warders and additional Tear/Illian/Aiel members are present.

Possibly 3 or 4 evil with some neutrals/aux thrown in?

Not sure this helps us at this point but wanted to start discussing for future use. I will post some reads after my morning meeting.

[timmae]

Need to hear more from Glen today. And where is Raven? Want to hear from both today.

[Grover]

Morning guys! Going back through last night's results and post-vote.

Disappointed to see votes lining up against me because a bunch of people jumped off me. I don't like it, but I do understand your reasoning.

[Grover]

Poor reading comprehension! I was looking at yesterday's votes... so disregard that last post I made!

Anyway...

Britrock, we know that EF was the Seer. Yes, he started the 'jump' away from voting for me and several others followed suit. I want to know why that makes you think I am a wolf?

On the other hand, are you trying to protect yourself here? You did vote for EF after all...

vote britrock

[The Jackal]

vote zinto

[The Jackal]

Still found his piggybacking on EF's "hunch" a bit weird. I wanted to see what would happen putting pressure on one of the other voters to encourage movement - at least we've got some moves to look at. Of course my vote is going to look poor in the scheme of things, wish he'd revealed.

[The Jackal]

Originally Posted by path12

For those who know the books is there significance to the Way of the Leaf?

Essentially the Way of the Leaf is all about peace and non-violence. The characters you meet in the books are basically gypsy folk searching for a song that will return the origins of their society (that's boiled down and my memory is a little hazy). I'd guess it was just a side quest for font.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

Still found his piggybacking on EF's "hunch" a bit weird. I wanted to see what would happen putting pressure on one of the other voters to encourage movement - at least we've got some moves to look at. Of course my vote is going to look poor in the scheme of things, wish he'd revealed.

I figured I could move to you and move somewhere else depending on what happened. Grover was essentially out of the race at that point so keeping my vote on him would have been pointless. (I also thought we still has another hour at that point)

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

This is my 2nd game and my 1st was vanilla so I want to verify. My assumption is that special abilities can only be used as night actions unless otherwise stated ("can be used at any time"). This means EF's "hunch" about Jackal was just a hunch, being Day 1, and not from his Brown Ajah ability.

Some sites will give seers random reads on N0 (that is, as the game starts), but they're always negative, from what I've seen.

[Zinto]

Glen has checked in now but no sign of Raven still

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Lazy vote is possibly a wolf vote. Looks like you're slapping your vote onto whomever looks the easiest target without giving it a lot of thought there Brit. Even if we didn't know that Eagle was a good guy I'd be hard pressed to follow the logic of how Grover looks suspicious coz of the shift but with Eagle coming up good it just makes no sense to me.

Vote Britrock

I'm time limited, hence the laziness. But I'll reread and see how I feel.

[britrock88]

Totally biased gut feeling at this moment is that there's evil among Grover, Jackal, and Narc. I might recant that in 15 minutes, though.

[Zinto]

Originally Posted by britrock88

Some sites will give seers random reads on N0 (that is, as the game starts), but they're always negative, from what I've seen.

That is usually stated in the rules right?(I guess not a lot of information is stated in the rules. It is mostly implied stuff)

[cheekimonk]

I don't think there was anything to this, but I'll start here:

vote Jackal

[Zinto]

I don't really think that a wolf moves off Grover if he is also a wolf yesterday. He had no momentum at the point when votes started moving and it really did not look like he was going to be lynched. It makes more sense to stay put at that point.

[Zinto]

Actually I guess I am wrong about that. Disregard. I should have looked at the vote count again not how just going off how I remember the votes falling.

[britrock88]

Just grouping a few thoughts about the rules...

Originally Posted by Narcizo

In fact rereading the rules makes me think that there are 4 factions and the shadows are lurking within these factions rather than being a faction of their own.

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Reiterating a Very Important thing to know from the rules - No Conversions.

Originally Posted by timmae

This game is a bit more difficult than I thought as it seems like evil is spaced throughout. It also seems as though the 4 groups may not be weighted equally with all of the ajah's listed. My spreadsheets just got more complicated!

Another thought I had on my drive from Chicago to Milwaukee... If anyone has any items it is probably best to transfer them to someone else if you will not be around between dusk and dawn. Per the game set the items can be transferred as a night order but if there is a nk and the item is not transferred then it is lost. Correct me if I am wrong on this.. That is not to say that all items are necessarily in good hands at the beginning but I would think so. Thoughts? Just want to make sure we try to maximize our abilities.

Originally Posted by Zinto

Yeah I would be shocked if there wasn't a dragon role. There will probably be some conditions that need to be met for the dragon to be announced to the world/game.

I think that, at this point, we're of the common understanding that shadow exists within faction(s). No conversions is helpful to know--our reads from D1 posts and votes will be useful throughout the game.

I'm not totally sold on timmae's suggestion to pass off items whenever AFK because of the potential for items to fall into the Shadow's hands. That said, certain good players need items, and the group needs to facilitate that somehow.

And I'm betting on the dragon being in the game, too. Don't know what specific conditions or consequences might apply to its presence, but I bet it's here.

[britrock88]

My curated post of interesting votes from D1...

First off, the vote-and-stick votes on EF belonged to me and Narcizo. Mine was the first, at 9:51am, and Narc's was the third (! ), at 2:09pm. (It did put EF ahead of Timmae, Grover, and Jackal with 2 votes each.)

Originally Posted by path12

OK, that was met with resounding silence and I've got to run, so will make the vote count at least.

UNVOTE RAVEN
VOTE GROVER

I think that ties it up. Maybe we get one!

This vote follows EF's move onto Grover and actually puts Grover ahead of Timmae and EF, 4-3-2. But I think this is an honest mistake in computing the tally.

Originally Posted by The Jackal

unvote grover
vote eaglefan

Immediately follows Path's vote and ties Grover, EF, and Timmae at 3.

Originally Posted by timmae

Well, that confuses things...

unvote raven
Vote eaglefan

Follows Martin's vote of Timmae into the lead to tie Timmae and EF at 4.

Originally Posted by cheekimonk

I've heard this tune before...

unvote Grover
vote EagleFan

This one's peculiar. EF had switched from Grover to Jackal based on his hunch 15 minutes before. That vote had broken a 3-way tie among Timmae, EF, and Grover at 4.

Cheeki sees this and... decides to bury EF? I'm confused by this. Someone who endangers himself to advance another lynch candidate is acting pretty towny, I'd have to say. This reaction causes me to look askance at Cheeki, for the vote; at Timmae, who was benefited most directly by the switch; and marginally at Grover, whom Cheeki took out of the running with the switch.

[britrock88]

Re: EF as seer...

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Down goes a seer...

I'm wondering if EF assumed we'd have more than one seer due to some ambiguity in the rules. Unfortunately, I'd bet that he was the only one we have...

(Claim sooner!)

Originally Posted by Zinto

That is usually stated in the rules right?(I guess not a lot of information is stated in the rules. It is mostly implied stuff)

I would expect that it would be stated in the rules. That said, not necessarily so... and this WW forum doesn't typically deal with N0 actions.

[britrock88]

Based on the above...

unvote Grover
vote Cheekimonk

[Coffee Warlord]

Given there are items in this game, I actually assumed the seer power was going to be item based. Looks like I was off base there.

[cheekimonk]

I moved to EagleFan because it was an odd move to put himself in more danger - eliminating Grover...one of the 2 tied w/ him at the time - to try to jumpstart a run on someone w/ 1 vote (Jackal).

He either knew something about Jackal (not likely on Day 1) or was luring votes off of him and possibly timmae, too. A risky, and peculiar, move.