WW IL - Do Werewolves Dream of Electric Sheep? Game Over, page 36

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I guess I just don't understand why people would rather throw their vote out randomly when instead they could vote for something that is slightly suspicious.

I agree (hence my DT vote) but am confused about what you think is slightly suspicious.

[LoneStarGirl]

Barkeep, sometimes you will post in a werewolf thread and you won't be one of the Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread. It is really weird, do you have some sort of Moderator powers that allows you to do this?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

That is so funny... I didn't realize Hoops wasn't in this game either. We are just so used to him being involved in every game.

I frankly find his non-involvement in this game very wolfish indeed and think it's a shame that the rules state we have to vote for a player. Seems like another wolf advantage

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Barkeep, sometimes you will post in a werewolf thread and you won't be one of the Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread. It is really weird, do you have some sort of Moderator powers that allows you to do this?

Likely comes from the fact that I'm at work so I start composing a post and then have to do work but then come back and finish writing my post.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Well.... It's day 1, and 2 people having the same dream is more first day information than we have in 99% of ww games.

If we had any good reasons to vote for other people, then your post makes sense. It may very well be white noise, but it's a hell of a lot better than just a shot in the dark. Or a vote for someone based on him being a wolf in a previous game or something else like that.

And from what someone else said in the thread, in the book and movie replicants have humans' memories implanted in them. So it seems significant to me.

I guess I just don't understand why people would rather throw their vote out randomly when instead they could vote for something that is slightly suspicious.

Kwhit, any particular reason you only quoted part of my sentence and answered it with stuff that I had already said?

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I agree (hence my DT vote) but am confused about what you think is slightly suspicious.

I find it suspicious that 2 players seem to have had the same dream. It was pointed out that in the short story, replicants have memories implanted in their heads from other humans.

I believe that the dreams mean something and it seems to suggest at least a possibility of one of them being a replicant.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Kwhit, any particular reason you only quoted part of my sentence and answered it with stuff that I had already said?

Because it was the part of your post I wanted to respond to.

It's not like I took anything you said out of context or changed the meaning of your post by quoting part of it.

Your post was basically that you thought it was no big deal. I responded to that by basically saying, it's not much of a deal, but it's better than people blindly throwing their votes away.

Incidently, I was also using your partial post as an example of what a lot of other posters were basically saying. Basically, I quoted you, but was responding to a bunch of stuff in addition to what you were saying.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I find it suspicious that 2 players seem to have had the same dream. It was pointed out that in the short story, replicants have memories implanted in their heads from other humans.

I believe that the dreams mean something and it seems to suggest at least a possibility of one of them being a replicant.

Ok I'm not sure what to think. On the one hand I'd agree, but there does seem to be some other overalp with dreams (NYC is mentioned in two I believe). Taking a look at what is claimed I'm not sure if future stardom (Swaggs) or present stardom (AE) is more suspicious, but I would lean towards future as that seems like a past memory that could be implanted.

However, I also don't see a whole lot of reason to lie about one's dream and think we should be careful about reading too much into it, especially as there seem to be tangential similarities among other dreams.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Here are what people posted about their dreams:

1. Alan T - Dreamt of hot girl that turned into a spider
2. Jonathan Ezarik
3. st. cronin - sex dream
4. Chief Rum
5. Barkeep49
6. LoneStarGirl - Got a bike!
7. Lathum - in San Diego, janice joplin and a giant ping pong ball
8. RendeR - How many cheeses can I fit into my mouth...it was alot...
9. path12
10. Passacaglia - crazy dream of new york city
11. Swaggs - pm mentioned future tennis stardom.
12. Tele - St.cronin's dream sounded like her's
13. DaddyTorgo
14. KWhit
15. bulletsponge - Wolf checking in *starts licking himself* ?
16. ntndeacon - kept dreaming of his dad at the lake. Tried to keep him near but he left anyways
17. twothree
18. ardent enthusiast - tennis star human

I added my dream to this list and bolded 2 that were never stated as dream information. Why are we assuming their dreams were these?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by KWhit

Because it was the part of your post I wanted to respond to.

It's not like I took anything you said out of context or changed the meaning of your post by quoting part of it.

Your post was basically that you thought it was no big deal. I responded to that by basically saying, it's not much of a deal, but it's better than people blindly throwing their votes away.

Incidently, I was also using your partial post as an example of what a lot of other posters were basically saying. Basically, I quoted you, but was responding to a bunch of stuff in addition to what you were saying.

But you left out the part where I said if folks were voting it because it was day 1 and we didn't have much else to go on then I understood. You also left out the part where I brought up that Ardent/Swaggs arent the only ones who had similar dreams and St.Cronin/Telle also did.

[RendeR]

Personally I find NTNDeacon's dream to be a bit condemning. The grasping/holding on to the father figure dream is very powerful in teh sense of self preservation and welf understanding, two things a rogue replicant is sure to be dealing with emotionally.

UNVOTE ALAN T
VOTE NTNDEACON

[RendeR]

my god my typing skills suck today...

[KWhit]

By the way, my dream was of a macaroni bus.

Don't ask me what that means. I have no idea.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

I added my dream to this list and bolded 2 that were never stated as dream information. Why are we assuming their dreams were these?

I really don't know what to make of bullet coming out saying he was a wolf if its not a dream. As for Ardent, I don't think he became a tennis player in real life, so to out of the blue mention it here first thing before anyone else mentioned their dreams or PMs it doesnt seem to be much of a reach that it would have been his dream.

Unless you know something about Ardent's budding professional tennis career that I don't.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok I'm not sure what to think. On the one hand I'd agree, but there does seem to be some other overalp with dreams (NYC is mentioned in two I believe). Taking a look at what is claimed I'm not sure if future stardom (Swaggs) or present stardom (AE) is more suspicious, but I would lean towards future as that seems like a past memory that could be implanted.

However, I also don't see a whole lot of reason to lie about one's dream and think we should be careful about reading too much into it, especially as there seem to be tangential similarities among other dreams.

Who else had a dream involving NYC besides me?

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

wolf checking in *starts licking himself*

Boy how did I miss that one? Sure don't like DT's actions but this seems even more blatant. I'm willing to take a person at his word.

Unvote DT
Vote Render

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I really don't know what to make of bullet coming out saying he was a wolf if its not a dream. As for Ardent, I don't think he became a tennis player in real life, so to out of the blue mention it here first thing before anyone else mentioned their dreams or PMs it doesnt seem to be much of a reach that it would have been his dream.

Unless you know something about Ardent's budding professional tennis career that I don't.

Alan anyway you can add post #s to that list?

[st.cronin]

Barkeep, that's bulletsponge, not Render.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Barkeep, that's bulletsponge, not Render.

Thanks.

Unvote Render
Vote Bulletsponge

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Alan T

But you left out the part where I said if folks were voting it because it was day 1 and we didn't have much else to go on then I understood.

So? Like I said, I was responding to your point about it not mattering much and using that as a jumping off point to say to everyone that the dream thing is something and better than people just throwing their vote away. That's all. I wasn't calling you out or anything. I just wanted to voice my disagreement with your thought: "That it speaks no less or more of Ardent or Swaggs's wolfishness."

Originally Posted by Alan T

You also left out the part where I brought up that Ardent/Swaggs arent the only ones who had similar dreams and St.Cronin/Telle also did.

Ardent/Swaggs both dreaming about tennis stardom is much more odd and significant to me that St.Cronin/Telle both having dreams somehow related to sex. Also, st.cronin's comment about his dream was kind of cryptic and unspecific. So to me, the Ardent/Swaggs dream 'coincidence' (or whatever it is) is much more interesting than the other similar dream situation.

I think the St.Cronin/Telle situation is one to keep an eye on, but less likely to be significant than the Ardent/Swaggs situation.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I frankly find his non-involvement in this game very wolfish indeed and think it's a shame that the rules state we have to vote for a player. Seems like another wolf advantage

Yes, the wolves should enjoy that I'm not a villager hunting them down this game

Deadline issues this week, so I figured it was a good time to take a break. Don't mind me reading along ...

[tanglewood]

Day 1 Votecount

DaddyTorgo - 2 Jonathan Ezarik, Swaggs
Passacaglia - 1 bulletsponge
ardent enthusiast - 1 KWhit
Lathum - 1 ntndeacon
KWhit - 1 twothree
ntndeacon - 1 RendeR
RendeR - 1 st.cronin
bulletsponge - 1 Barkeep49

Yet to vote: Alan T, Chief Rum, LoneStarGirl, Lathum, path12, Passacaglia, Telle, DaddyTorgo, ardent enthusiast

T-minus 4 hours and 45 minutes.

[st.cronin]

3 way tie by my reckoning:

2 - ntndeacon - Lathum (193), RendeR (211)
2 - RendeR - st.cronin (117), LoneStarGirl (183)
2 - DaddyTorgo - Jonathan Ezarik (134), Swaggs (161)
1 - Passacaglia - bulletsponge (151)
1 - ardent enthusiast - KWhit (154)
1 - Lathum - ntndeacon (172)
1 - KWhit - twothree (194)
1 - bulletsponge - Barkeep49 (219)

not voted:

1. Alan T
4. Chief Rum
9. path12
10. Passacaglia
12. Tele
13. DaddyTorgo
18. ardent enthusiast

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Boy how did I miss that one? Sure don't like DT's actions but this seems even more blatant. I'm willing to take a person at his word.

But the "wolves" aren't even wolves in this game, so I don't understand. What do you think BS was trying to do with his wolf post?

[st.cronin]

unvote RendeR
vote bulletsponge

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by KWhit

But the "wolves" aren't even wolves in this game, so I don't understand. What do you think BS was trying to do with his wolf post?

I don't know. I know that very rarely do I use the game specific terms for the good guys and bad guys. I almost always use wolves and villagers. I would really like to hear BS's explanation as it just seems too easy. But it's frustrating because even if we vote out BS we won't know if it was a genuine slip or not since we don't get results.

Which brings me back: Anyone remember a game where we had no reveals? I'd be happy to go back and read the game but can't remember which game(s) used that mechanic.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I think I've only played one game, I believe, where there was no reveal on death and I don't remember that game at all (can't even think of what game it was). Anyone remember that game? I would love to see what we learned since the no reveal policy seems to be a HUGE villager handicap.

My Animal Farm game didn't have any role reveal. Proved to be very tough. There was another one I can't place ATM.

[st.cronin]

BK, I think I have only played one game where there were no reveals. I don't remember which game it was, but I remember it being a frustrating experience, and I think that game was heavily slanted to the wolves.

There have been other games where there were reveals, but not public reveals - my Rome game, for example.

[path12]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Personally I find NTNDeacon's dream to be a bit condemning. The grasping/holding on to the father figure dream is very powerful in teh sense of self preservation and welf understanding, two things a rogue replicant is sure to be dealing with emotionally.

I have one problem with the whole dream theory, and in trying to interpret them to figure out a vote today. That's the fact that a wolf likely didn't mention that right away and there's nothing to prevent them from just making up stuff. Especially in a game like this where we wouldn't find out who the lynch victim actually is.

[path12]

Originally Posted by KWhit

I think the St.Cronin/Telle situation is one to keep an eye on, but less likely to be significant than the Ardent/Swaggs situation.

I think the st.cronin/Telle situation is one that RendeR would like to keep an eye on.......

[path12]

Originally Posted by KWhit

But the "wolves" aren't even wolves in this game, so I don't understand. What do you think BS was trying to do with his wolf post?

It's weird, but it strikes me as bullet just being bullet offhand. Though I've voted for less on day 1.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by path12

I have one problem with the whole dream theory, and in trying to interpret them to figure out a vote today. That's the fact that a wolf likely didn't mention that right away and there's nothing to prevent them from just making up stuff. Especially in a game like this where we wouldn't find out who the lynch victim actually is.

Agree, and note that ardent and Swaggs were among the first to come out with pm info (still not sure if ardent was talking about a dream or not). My instincts tell me they're both villager.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by path12

My Animal Farm game didn't have any role reveal. Proved to be very tough. There was another one I can't place ATM.

Originally Posted by st.cronin

BK, I think I have only played one game where there were no reveals. I don't remember which game it was, but I remember it being a frustrating experience, and I think that game was heavily slanted to the wolves.

There have been other games where there were reveals, but not public reveals - my Rome game, for example.

Cronin I was a wolf in your Rome game and don't remember the non-reveals being a big advantage for us. And I didn't play in Animal Farm.

So to both of you: Having had perfect information in those situations what do you think would have been the right way for the villagers to approach the game?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Cronin I was a wolf in your Rome game and don't remember the non-reveals being a big advantage for us. And I didn't play in Animal Farm.

So to both of you: Having had perfect information in those situations what do you think would have been the right way for the villagers to approach the game?

Well, my game was a bit different in that roles were revealed - but only to one or two players, whose allegiance was not fixed. Still, in that game the village was probably best served to just assume the information they got was valid.

In this game, it appears from the rules that one of the Blade Runners will get a night kill - which will include a role reveal, presumably. There may also be some unlisted roles.

For day 1, I think we're pretty much hosed. But I would be pretty surprised if a bunch of information wasn't on its way.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Cronin I was a wolf in your Rome game and don't remember the non-reveals being a big advantage for us. And I didn't play in Animal Farm.

So to both of you: Having had perfect information in those situations what do you think would have been the right way for the villagers to approach the game?

I know that in mine the lack of information caused the villagers to misread flavor for hints. For example, as the game went on I had the rules painted on the barn alter as the game went on like it did in the book. This caused a lot of confusion, as changes didn't happen every day and the villagers started to try and correlate kills with these descriptions in order to try and determine who had been killed. Also I had descriptions of the deaths with words written in blood that were taken to mean something.

It's very easy to get lost when there are no or limited reveals. Voting records become harder to read. You really depend much more on your seers.

That's another reason I'm wondering if the whole dream thing is just flavor and we've got a red herring here.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Thanks.

Unvote Render
Vote Bulletsponge

thats not nice. if i was a wolf would i say i was a wolf?

[Poli]

This should be interesting. WW doesn't hold a candle to the time I'm goign to spend on NCAA '08. This is going to be a hard game to follow.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

thats not nice. if i was a wolf would i say i was a wolf?

Seems like a dumb thing to say if you're a wolf but not too much smarter if you're a villager.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by path12

I know that in mine the lack of information caused the villagers to misread flavor for hints. For example, as the game went on I had the rules painted on the barn alter as the game went on like it did in the book. This caused a lot of confusion, as changes didn't happen every day and the villagers started to try and correlate kills with these descriptions in order to try and determine who had been killed. Also I had descriptions of the deaths with words written in blood that were taken to mean something.

It's very easy to get lost when there are no or limited reveals. Voting records become harder to read. You really depend much more on your seers.

That's another reason I'm wondering if the whole dream thing is just flavor and we've got a red herring here.

Ok I think that's a great lesson, if a tad depressing. In fact I'm not sure how we avoid falling into that trap.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Ok I think that's a great lesson, if a tad depressing. In fact I'm not sure how we avoid falling into that trap.

It certainly makes day 1 (which most know I hate anyway) even more dreadful than normal. I agree with Cronin in the hope that we'll get some information as we go along. One of the big problems in my game was that the seer died day 1.

[ntndeacon]

hasnt bulletclaimed to be a wolf early before and wasn't? I seem to remember something about that. If I remember correctly it is a pretty frequent occurance.

NOte I am not saying he isnt, but his behaivor does not lead me to believe he is.

[path12]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

hasnt bulletclaimed to be a wolf early before and wasn't? I seem to remember something about that. If I remember correctly it is a pretty frequent occurance.

NOte I am not saying he isnt, but his behaivor does not lead me to believe he is.

I remember him posting the wolf smileys a lot.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by path12

It certainly makes day 1 (which most know I hate anyway) even more dreadful than normal. I agree with Cronin in the hope that we'll get some information as we go along. One of the big problems in my game was that the seer died day 1.

I've actually found that this has been a somewhat non-annoying d1 because of all the dream info. I actually think that future days will be much worse.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

hasnt bulletclaimed to be a wolf early before and wasn't? I seem to remember something about that. If I remember correctly it is a pretty frequent occurance.

NOte I am not saying he isnt, but his behaivor does not lead me to believe he is.

Well it seems like the sort of behavior we'd want to not encourage. I mean if he IS a wolf this time it seems like the perfect way of hiding in plain sight.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by path12

I think the st.cronin/Telle situation is one that RendeR would like to keep an eye on.......

Shhhhh!!!!

[Telle]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

thats not nice. if i was a wolf would i say i was a wolf?

I'm gonna go with the "hiding in plain sight" theory.

Vote Bulletsponge

[LoneStarGirl]

Tanglewood, I voted for Render a ways back... looks like you missed it.

[ntndeacon]

well I am out till after the lynch. and will be gone at lynch most days. (I have play practice for a performance in two weeks ) So hopefully whomever we get, may they be a replicant.

[st.cronin]

updated

3 - bulletsponge - Barkeep49 (219), st.cronin (225), Telle (246)
2 - ntndeacon - Lathum (193), RendeR (211)
2 - DaddyTorgo - Jonathan Ezarik (134), Swaggs (161)
1 - RendeR - LoneStarGirl (183)
1 - Passacaglia - bulletsponge (151)
1 - ardent enthusiast - KWhit (154)
1 - Lathum - ntndeacon (172)
1 - KWhit - twothree (194)

not voted:

1. Alan T
4. Chief Rum
9. path12
10. Passacaglia
13. DaddyTorgo
18. ardent enthusiast

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

One thing that just occured to me is this cuts the other way too. Suppose you're ardent, and you're a wolf. Are you going to come right out and say what's in your pm? I'm thinking no, not unless somebody else does first. I actually think its equally likely that Swaggs is a wolf.

I would agree with you that either of us could be an android.

I'm not sure either of us would know it. I know that I was told I am a human in the PM, though.