01-29-2019, 08:23 PM | #201 |
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What in the hell has gotten into Jahlil Okafor?
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01-29-2019, 08:26 PM | #202 |
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Short answer yes. Long answer, which max? (Klay isn't good enough for the Designated Player exception & doesn't seem the type to be offended he isn't offered it, KD/Curry have already taken slightly less on a contract to stay in GS so it doesn't seem they'd leave for that reason.) Draymond was looking like the issue, but he's shot so poorly this year maybe he'll agree he's an $18 million a year or whatever player and not a max one.
But yes, I'm pretty sure that while there are weird rules about acquiring players, once they are on your team you can sign all your players to max deals if you are willing to pay the exponentially punitive NBA luxury tax (which also seems like a good thing. The super team problems have different reasons.) Last edited by BishopMVP : 01-29-2019 at 08:48 PM. |
01-30-2019, 01:31 AM | #203 |
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The Cavs are streaking!
Team is not great but if they weren't so damaged with injuries I think they would be mediocre instead of awful. Feel like once Love comes back we'll win just enough to get stuck with another trash level Sexton type draft pick. Zizic is having a respectable month and Osman merely sucks now instead of being one of the worst players in the league. I'm hoping someone will bite on Clarkson. Would be nice to flip him for a trash contract and a low first rounder. |
01-30-2019, 08:27 AM | #204 | |
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There were three hypotheticals in a one sentence post and you chose to ignore all three of them. |
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01-30-2019, 09:50 AM | #205 |
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The Knicks may be really close without AD. If they get the #1, and KP comes back healthy, and they sign a top FA this summer, they could be much better next year.
But that's a lot of ifs. They could also get the #4, get KP back, and sign a good but not great FA and still struggle to make the playoffs.
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01-30-2019, 10:28 AM | #206 |
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01-31-2019, 02:15 PM | #207 | ||||
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I agree with Atocep that the Lakers wouldn't be making a rash deal, the Pelicans would be. If you're New Orleans you want someone under team control for 5+ years who has a chance to be a superstar, and unless you're the biggest Brandon Ingram fan left none of the Lakers assets reach the level that Tatum, healthy KP or Zion would be. (And I like Barrett/Ja Morant/maybe Culver & Langford & Kevin Porter's skillset albeit not his attitude, but they don't move the needle in the same way so it's really a one player draft from that standpoint.) (Also, Ainge is hinting more strongly that he would include Tatum, but Jaylen Brown has also played much better since that ugly first 4-6 weeks, and Rozier is showing again that he's actually good as a starter and just sucks as a backup, so a deal centered around those two and some of the plethora of picks - Sacramento's unless it's #1, Clippers if they make the playoffs, Memphis 1-8 protected this year, 1-6 next year, unprotected 2021 on - is still probably better than the Lakers offer though I know some people disagree on that.) You could include all of Ingram/Ball/Kuzma/Lakers 1st round pick this year that will almost certainly be in the teens, and any combination of future 1st round picks/pick swaps that will probably be late because that would be a team that has LeBron & AD, and not only is there very little path to a superstar there, but that offer will also be there in June unless the Lakers use some of them to trade for a lower tier star like Kemba or Marc Gasol at the deadline. It's why LeBron and Rich Paul are using all their minions like Brian Windhorst to try and spread hilarious Kyrie rumors and get AD traded now before the Celtics can put their offer down. (I also think the Pelicans are pissed at what they perceive to be tampering from LeBron/the Lakers and don't want to send him there at all at this point in time.) Quote:
He's always been able to put up points and rebounds when he plays, and he's still such a bad defender the team has been a net negative with him on the floor even as he has been getting numbers because NO has so many big man injuries he's getting minutes and touches. Btw, somehow he's not even the most surprising resurgence of the last week... Bruno Caboclo showed up in Memphis & is getting 25+ minutes a game and is playing crunch time?!? Technically we are 4 years & change away from that infamous Fran Frischilla comment on draft night Quote:
Sure, but reading NBA twitter there are just so many Lakers or Knicks fans under any Woj/Lowe/Shams/Dunc'ed On tweet it's driving me a little crazy. It's only slightly more likely than if a Celtic fan tried saying we should trade Kyrie+ like Jaylen for AD then re-sign Kyrie this summer. The KP situation is so messed up right now, because it appears from the outside like Porzingis wants to come back and play soon, but the Knicks want to keep sitting him to increase their draft pick value, but then also until he comes back he has fairly unknowable trade value (and also as an RFA this summer he'd have to agree to a sign & trade & I'm not sure he'd want to go to New Orleans in a swap with draft picks for AD.) You'd think with the smoothing out of the lottery odds and the amount of losses the Knicks have already banked they'd just want him to come back and play when he can, but it's the Knicks. Btw, I don't think Kyrie is going to the Knicks or trading KP & pick 2-8 for AD without guarantees of re-signing would make much sense, but I do think they have a very real shot at KD this summer or Jimmy Butler as a fallback. Getting the #1 pick is only a 14% chance for even the worst team now, but yeah if they do that changes a lot of things - although I'm still not sure how much sense it would be to trade KP+ young guys in that scenario instead of going with a KP/Zion/Knox frontline and trying to get some better veteran guards. |
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01-31-2019, 02:55 PM | #208 |
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WOJ BOMB!
Mavs finalizing deal for Kristaps.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 01-31-2019 at 02:55 PM. |
01-31-2019, 02:58 PM | #209 |
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Knicks locked on to some combo of KD, Kyrie, and Kawhi this summer.
Love Dallas pairing KP and Luka! Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk |
01-31-2019, 03:07 PM | #210 |
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https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/31/s...mavericks.html
To DAL Porzingis T. Hardaway Jr. C. Lee T. Burks To NYK Smith Jr. D. Jordan W. Matthews Two first round picks
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 01-31-2019 at 05:59 PM. Reason: Updated details |
01-31-2019, 03:12 PM | #211 |
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Haha wow, did not expect that. Since Dallas already owes their 1st this year to Atlanta for Luka that's basically KP to Dallas for DSJ + nothing unless Dallas wins a top 4 pick this lottery. I think the Knicks have a shot at KD + Butler this summer and don't think Kyrie is 100% off the table, but don't think that chance is worth trading Kristaps for a middling return. Having KP would probably sell FA's a lot more than DSJ...
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01-31-2019, 03:12 PM | #212 |
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Holy crap. If Porzingis comes back 100% from that injury, look the hell out in Dallas.
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01-31-2019, 06:22 PM | #213 |
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Knicks subreddit is ablaze.
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01-31-2019, 07:05 PM | #214 |
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As it should be. Unless you're a huge Dennis Smith fan (and I've always thought he's an athletic specimen who doesn't have the "it" factor PG's need. I can't find it, but I think even his NC State team had better +/- with him off the court, and he obviously had some attitude issues when he's not The Guy, so idk why you think you can develop him & Ntilikina on the same team) or you think KP will not come back at 100%, this is selling unbelievably low on KP. I get the desire to open 2 max slots, but there were much easier ways than including Porzingis, and wouldn't playing with Porzingis be a bigger selling point to KD/Butler/Kawhi/Kyrie than playing with DSJ?
Even if you do, why the Mavs? It ends up being a 2021 unprotected and 2023 top 10 protected pick, but a Luka/KP pairing seems to indicate they'll be pretty good in 2021... if you were set on trading Porzingis wouldn't like Atlanta have traded you a #1 protected pick in this draft, or at least the Dallas top 4 protected one, plus taken on the bad salary since they're all in on just playing the young guys? You likely could've even gotten Lin & Bazemore or Dedmon out of them to equal Lee/THJ's deals and then flipped those expiring contracts for more assets? If not Atlanta, even a team like Sacramento has enough frisky guys I like more than DSJ. Heck the Hornets probably would've given you 3-4 firsts including this year (assuming MJ has seen Porzingis play in the NBA, since he wouldn't have pre-draft). I assume the Celtics are a no go due to alleged divisional rivalry, but they likely could've beaten this deal too. It's crazy. Last edited by BishopMVP : 01-31-2019 at 07:08 PM. |
01-31-2019, 07:27 PM | #215 | |
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I doubt it. KP doesn't fit the demographic they're looking for any more than Doncic did.
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01-31-2019, 08:03 PM | #216 |
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Loved the Tree Young story where he was basically like "both sides won on that trade"
I'm pretty sure Luka will win between 1-3 of the next 12 MvPs...Young might make an all star team via injury replacement some day |
01-31-2019, 08:06 PM | #217 |
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Someone getting Jordan for vet min is going to screw up the playoffs a bit.
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01-31-2019, 08:48 PM | #218 |
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01-31-2019, 10:09 PM | #219 |
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It's easy to infer what you're implying - and maybe it did slightly contribute to the Young + pick over Doncic decision - but I'm pretty sure they're smart enough to understand talent and winning games is the best PR. It's not like Kevin Huerter fits the mold you're talking about (or Trae Young has crazy street cred like an Allen Iverson.) At least part of the reason they picked Young is that he fits their "Warriors esque" vision where they can create a ton of spacing & a 7'3 guy who can play the 5 defensively and loves to shoot 3's would seem to fit that part of their vision.
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01-31-2019, 10:25 PM | #220 | |
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Huerter isn't going to be the face of the franchise, anywhere, ever. Porzingis would immediately be that in ATL (though largely by default) The entire marketing of the franchise, or even just the fan experience (hip hop barbershop & all) made their reason for making such an absurd deal obvious.
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01-31-2019, 11:39 PM | #221 | |
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If not, either they really love DSJ, really hate something they've seen in KP's rehab, or they made a rash decision without doing their due diligence because Porzingis is (rightfully) frustrated with the organization's continuing circus atmosphere. I don't know if they even could trade his restricted rights in June/July or if he'd have to agree to a sign & trade, but you think Dallas was pulling this offer and the chance at pairing Dirk 2.0 with Doncic in the next week before the deadline? |
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01-31-2019, 11:46 PM | #222 |
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Nice California trip for the Sixers so far.
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02-01-2019, 12:15 AM | #223 | |
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In Atlanta, that's kind of a question. I'm gonna hxxp this article because I've lost track of what sites screw up threads here at this point, but the gist of it is that winning doesn't really draw in Atlanta. hxxp://soaringdownsouth.com/2018/04/19/attendance-bad-atlanta-hawks-games/
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02-01-2019, 05:01 AM | #224 | |
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I am going to try to read that article again later. I immediately closed the tab after reading the first sentence.
Quote:
How can I take the writer seriously after that line. Based on everything I have read and heard about Porzingis's way of life, I would argue he would fit in much better culturally in Atlanta than he would in Dallas.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 02-01-2019 at 05:02 AM. |
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02-01-2019, 08:42 AM | #225 |
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02-01-2019, 09:05 AM | #226 |
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Is it possible the Knicks front office has become competent?
As I look at the trade half a day later, I actually like what the Knicks did.Yes I would have preferred to match KP with another max guy. I did not realize that KP had made the decision that he was done with the Knicks. Yes, they could have forced him to stay. But once they decision was made, I like the move to clean the slate completely and starting over. Very good first step IMO.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
02-01-2019, 09:25 AM | #227 | |
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I agree. They were going to struggle to keep KP and decided to use him to clear bad salaries which gives them about 70 mil for free agency. The New York market will attract players. This was probably the best move out of several bad options. |
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02-01-2019, 09:43 AM | #228 |
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Way, way, WAY too much faith being put in Knicks management.
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02-01-2019, 10:00 AM | #229 |
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They seem to be going all in on a mediocre hand. They might have the #1 and two top free agents to put with their young players. But they also might have a #3-5 pick and one or none top free agents or worse, one or two overpaid good but not great players. At this point, option 1 seems the least likely outcome.
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02-01-2019, 10:39 AM | #230 |
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@SBondyNYDN
Kyrie Irving has shifted from his commitment to re-signing with the Celtics: “I don’t owe anybody shit.” |
02-01-2019, 11:06 AM | #231 | |
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Quote:
We can debate how much the bad salaries would've cost to get rid of - I really don't think Lee's $12m next year would've been hard, so it's basically THJ's $18m for the next two seasons, and while he's being overpaid he's still a competent low end starter or great bench scorer in his 20's so it's not like it's completely dead money. This just seems like a whole lot to give up (literally the best player the Knicks have drafted in 30 years since Patrick Ewing/Mark Jackson/Rod Strickland) for the hope that 1-2 max guys will sign with you this summer. (And if you actually got that commitment it'd then be pretty easy to attach your 2020/21 1st and some young guys at the positions the big name FA's play to rid yourselves of THJ's deal during the moratorium.) Especially when we've heard almost every big name FA linked to "the Mecca" for years, and they always end up with 2nd tier guys like Amar'e, Allan Houston, Tyson Chandler, Robin Lopez, and most recently in 2016 Joakim Noah (who was stretched and is taking up $6.5m of their cap for 3 more seasons) and THJ (who they just had to give up a huge asset to get rid of.) Kyrie had to go and feed the media ammo, but just think logically about that part - would he rather play with one of the best pick and roll big men in the league, or a 20 year old PG who has shown no indication he can play winning basketball or co-exist next to other ballhandlers? |
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02-01-2019, 11:09 AM | #232 |
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Woah! This is a step too far. The market should attract players. I feel like in previous years, the Knicks would have traded two first round picks and KP to get Smith Jr. and Deandre to team with Hardaway Jr. I am not saying that I believe that the Knicks will make the right decisions moving forward. This just provides them an empty lot on which to begin the rebuild. Can I at least give them credit coming to their senses about the Hardaway Jr contract? I am trying to dish out more credit in 2019.
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02-01-2019, 12:02 PM | #233 |
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Btw, with all the attention on the Lakers & Knicks right now I feel it's also worth noting that Brooklyn & the Clippers will also have 2 max slots available this summer... someone who is giving their fans the promise of KD & Kawhi & Kyrie & Klay will be selling their fanbase 6 months from now on Tobias Harris or Khris Middleton or an older player like Kemba or Marc Gasol whose contract has a lot of downside risk.
Also, per usual, the Kyrie stuff wasn't as inflammatory as people want to make it out to be. In full context he basically said he sees what the Knicks are doing, Boston is still in the lead, and he's sick of the media talking about his motivations and demanding he explain himself to them. So basically classic Kyrie where he gives a full quote instead of being reticent, and people can choose to spin it anyway they want if they cut up individual sentences. Last edited by BishopMVP : 02-01-2019 at 12:04 PM. |
02-01-2019, 12:49 PM | #234 |
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So the Pelicans had no interest in Porzingis?
Interesting. Also, I wonder if Porzingis was throwing one high and inside when he told the Knicks he intended to sign the qualifying offer over the summer.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
02-01-2019, 12:52 PM | #235 |
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Dirk and Wade added to the AS game. Good move.
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02-01-2019, 01:47 PM | #236 | |
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Did the Knicks talk to the Pelicans? Or the Kings? Or the Celtics? (Maybe they wouldn't have done that anyways, though KP for the #1 overall pick was pretty close to happening before the 2016 draft.) Or the plethora of other teams who could've been interested? It is funny that it's getting lost that both Toronto (to Milwaukee) and Golden State (to Philly) lost pretty big at home last night at full strength vs other top teams. NBA truly is more about off court drama, at least in the regular season. |
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02-01-2019, 01:58 PM | #237 | ||
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Quote:
from today Quote:
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02-01-2019, 02:29 PM | #238 |
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I don’t know how you can have a league where the best players only want to play for 5 or 6 teams. The NBA really should consider contraction. If you are a small market the chance of competing is basically zero.
AD has basically come out and said he’s only going to resign with the Lakers, tanking his trade value even further. And they are basically limited to trading for young players who will be stuck there for a while anyway. What’s the point having a team |
02-01-2019, 02:40 PM | #239 | |
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I'm not sure if contraction fixes it, unless you contract half the league. Failing that then the trick, I guess, is to be the next GSW. 7.5 seasons ago they were a franchise that had a high water mark of 36 wins and 3 sub-30 win seasons in the most recent four.
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02-01-2019, 02:56 PM | #240 | |
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And even there, you have to hit on the picks you get in those lean years. Drafting for the NBA is tough, think of how many lottery pick players even pan out. Compare that to the NFL. Yes, there are busts in the NFL, but you I would argue you do not have as many complete flame outs like the NBA. |
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02-01-2019, 03:38 PM | #241 | |
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But you don't have to hit that often, you just have to hit big 2007 - Belinelli 1st, Jermareo Davidson 2nd, Stephane Lasmae 2nd 2008 - Anthony Randolph 1st, Richard Hendrix 2nd 2009 - Curry 1st 2010 - Udoh 1st 2011 - Klay 1st, Charles Thompson 2nd 2012 - Barnes 1st, Ezeli 1st, Green 2nd, Kuzmic 2nd 2013 - none 2014 - none 2015 - Looney 1st 2016 - Damian Jones 1st 2017 - none 2018 - Jacob Evans 1st And no pick higher than 6th overall.
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"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 02-01-2019 at 03:39 PM. |
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02-01-2019, 04:21 PM | #242 | |
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There's issues here with superteams, but blaming it on market size seems very questionable. |
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02-01-2019, 05:12 PM | #243 |
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Doing away with a max contract limit (but using a lower agreed upon figure for cap purposes) after X years of service with a team would be a good start.
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02-01-2019, 05:25 PM | #244 | |
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Getting rid of max contracts fixes it. Keep the salary cap but make it like football where teams can sign players for what they want. Kevin Durant and Steph Curry would never end up on the same team because both would command so much money in a real market. This also fixes the problem of mediocre players who sell no tickets getting paid huge money. |
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02-01-2019, 05:48 PM | #245 | |
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That's probably fair - more about chasing that ring than going to a big market, although there's still an element of the latter, otherwise you wouldn't have the putrid Knicks giving away a young all-star for essentially nothing and being lauded as sensible for doing so. The problem is still the same though, nearly half the league (if not more) have absolutely no path to even dreaming about a championship in the next 5-7 years. Some have brought it on themselves, but I just don't think I could emotionally invest in being a fan of a team knowing that. Outside of Boston and a small chance that Milwaukee might get a superstar who wants to play with Giannis, is there anyone else on your list who is an actual threat to win a title in the next 3 years? Toronto maybe if they can get Kawhi to stay? |
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02-01-2019, 06:29 PM | #246 | |
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I like this idea. Keep the salary cap and luxury tax. Definitely hits the medium/lower tier guys so I could see it being difficult to get the player's union on board.
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02-01-2019, 07:27 PM | #247 |
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I do really like the suggestion that the max you can give a player over the salary max scales with years of service with a single team and doesn't count towards the luxury tax. An extra x million a year you are with a team, and then if you trade the player that goes onto the receiving teams luxury bill.
That would encourage players to stay where they are and while counting towards the cap wouldn't penalize small market teams who are trying to stay out of the luxury tax. With that said AD is eligible for the SuperMax and is turning it down to go and chase a ring in LA, so not really sure what else you can do here. Is it really realistic to expect the Pelicans to pay him close to 40% of the cap or more in a situation where they can offer him unlimited, and even if they do that isn't that making it more unlikely that they can surround him with quality teammates and keep him happy? I'm not sure what the solution is, the NBA is so skewed towards superteams with such small rosters and the impact that star players have on the game. The only thing like it is the need to have all-pro QB in the NFL and even then it's not too long ago that teams could win without one with a great defense. |
02-01-2019, 07:30 PM | #248 |
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Might be an urban legend but Kobe was the only guy who voted against the max salary back in the day. There's no way rank and file falls in. Guys like hardaway jr would get 5-9million.
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02-01-2019, 07:36 PM | #249 | |
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You have a point. The Dolphins have had no path to of even dreaming of a championship and I am no longer emotionally invested in them. I don't know what the NFL can do to help them though.
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"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 |
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02-01-2019, 07:39 PM | #250 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: the yo'
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I'd prefer something like slots like the old old CBA kinda had. Like you can pay 2 guys 30 million but any other player earning more than the league average gets taxed at 5x rate or something. Or hard cap any team who has 2 guys combining for more than 60% of the cap, something like that. If GS has to choose between having Klay -or- Iggy/Cousins/Livingston
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