NFL Week 6 - Page 5

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:35 PM

Play action, deep pass to Lelie. Right now. This play.

Come on Shanny, don't get too conservative here.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:39 PM

Well, if Denver does end up losing this game, you have to look no further than the coach.

Bailey out after the half. You know that. Yet you still get ultra conservative in the third and fourth quarters of a game trying to "hold on" when the other team can't stop you. An absolute joke, even if Denver hangs on to this one. Just inexcuseable coaching by the staff.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:40 PM

Where was the hold? Where, where, where? The DT just got tackled. That's a damned joke. Unbelievable.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:42 PM

THAT IS GROUNDING!!!! CALL IT. About FREAKIN time.

cthomer5000 · 10-16-2005, 07:43 PM

Nice shot on Branch to break up the completion.

Desnudo · 10-16-2005, 07:44 PM

Givens' drop was huge. It looked like Branch got KO'd briefly when he landed.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:44 PM

That was nearly one hell of a catch by Branch. Don't worry Pats fans, I expect the conservative calls will continue here. And if they do, you'll have another shot.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:45 PM

Second down, this MUST be a play action pass.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:47 PM

About freakin time Shanny. If the next run on first down picks up less than five, I think you play action again. And go deep. The Pats secondary can't hold up to the deep ball under normal conditions, not they are going to be playing up to stop the run. You have to try to WIN this game not try to hold on for dear life.

cthomer5000 · 10-16-2005, 07:49 PM

game over.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 07:50 PM

Wasn't deep, but that was one hell of a play call there. Break off one run for ten yards and end this thing, PLEASE.

cthomer5000 · 10-16-2005, 08:15 PM

Time to put down the entire NFC North. Unbelievable that Green Bay and Minnesota are only 1 game out of first.

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 08:23 PM

The NFC is a nightmare. The East and South have 7 of their 8 teams with winning records. The other two divisions have only 1 of 8.

The AFC is also interesting. SD and NE at .500. Pitt 3-2. And then you have Cincy and Denver at 5-1.

Of course, this is Indy's league right now. It's set up for them perfectly to win it all now.

cthomer5000 · 10-16-2005, 08:42 PM

wow, the flags are out of control in this Sunday night game.

miami_fan · 10-16-2005, 08:43 PM

You aren't kidding

Desnudo · 10-16-2005, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

The NFC is a nightmare. The East and South have 7 of their 8 teams with winning records. The other two divisions have only 1 of 8.

The AFC is also interesting. SD and NE at .500. Pitt 3-2. And then you have Cincy and Denver at 5-1.

Of course, this is Indy's league right now. It's set up for them perfectly to win it all now.

I agree. It's hard to point to a game on their schedule that they won't be favored in. Depending on injuries, they might even be favored at NE.

miami_fan · 10-16-2005, 09:21 PM

Thank you Texans for ensuring I won't be up til the end of the Sunday night game

TroyF · 10-16-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

I agree. It's hard to point to a game on their schedule that they won't be favored in. Depending on injuries, they might even be favored at NE.

As of now, they would be. No matter how Belicek gets in Peyton's head, I don't see the talent in that secondary or the pass rush to do that this year. The Colts aren't as good on D as their points against indicates (they've faced some truly horrible offenses), but it is improved.

If NE can't stop Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub on the deep ball, I find it difficult to believe they'll be able to stop Petyon Manning.

Like I said above, NE overcomes all of this, Beli is the best coach of all time. . . there won't even be a debate.

Ksyrup · 10-17-2005, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Well, if Denver does end up losing this game, you have to look no further than the coach.

Bailey out after the half. You know that. Yet you still get ultra conservative in the third and fourth quarters of a game trying to "hold on" when the other team can't stop you. An absolute joke, even if Denver hangs on to this one. Just inexcuseable coaching by the staff.

We should have been throwing deep passes every 5 plays. Plummer could have thrown for 500 yards on that secondary. NE is truly lost right now. I'm glad we got them at a down point.

Desnudo · 10-17-2005, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

As of now, they would be. No matter how Belicek gets in Peyton's head, I don't see the talent in that secondary or the pass rush to do that this year. The Colts aren't as good on D as their points against indicates (they've faced some truly horrible offenses), but it is improved.

If NE can't stop Jake Plummer and Matt Schaub on the deep ball, I find it difficult to believe they'll be able to stop Petyon Manning.

Like I said above, NE overcomes all of this, Beli is the best coach of all time. . . there won't even be a debate.

If Seymour comes back healthy, they have a chance. If he's out, it will be tough. They beat them last year with Gay, Samuel, and Troy Brown at CB. Their linebackers aren't as good this year, so that may be a weak spot. The weather may play a factor too.

Edit: and I'd never bet against Brady in a Manning vs. Brady match-up, especially if Dillon is available.

TroyF · 10-17-2005, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

If Seymour comes back healthy, they have a chance. If he's out, it will be tough. They beat them last year with Gay, Samuel, and Troy Brown at CB. Their linebackers aren't as good this year, so that may be a weak spot. The weather may play a factor too.

Edit: and I'd never bet against Brady in a Manning vs. Brady match-up, especially if Dillon is available.

Yeah, but something is missing this year des. I know they miss Harrison heavily. . . but they simply can't cover the deep ball right now. This is against teams like Atlanta and Denver who aren't exactly terrific at throwing the deep ball. And even if Seymour comes back, where is the pass rush? He can't do it by himself.

If Denver doesn't get conservative in that game, they could have almost picked the score. When Denver was mixing the playcalling up and not just trying to run the ball up the middle play in/play out, NE looked ridiculously bad.

Even at their worst last year, I can't remember the NE defense being this bad.

Desnudo · 10-17-2005, 01:20 AM

Seymour is the kind of player that changes the way teams prepare. If he's out, there's no need to double team him, etc.. He's a special player, like Harrison or Bruschi, just not as much of a leader.

True, they've been rotating so many different players in and out, there's no cohesion at all. Even their back-ups to the back-ups are getting hurt. Eventually you hit the wall. Although I think the main difference right now is their linebackers not being able to cover up the secondary's weakness' anymore. Monty Biesel is not a good player. Who got faked out of his pants on the game killing first down by Denver? I'm not sure that buying ex-Chiefs defenders is the way to improve your D. McGinnest is playing with one hand. Maybe Roman Phifer is tired of playing golf.

I think the bye week couldn't have come any sooner. Bruschi's return would hopefully put Biesel on the bench, which I think would be an enormous boost and they can at least start getting some bodies back.

Edit: all that said, this season has 9-7 written all over it. Which thankfully may be enough to win the AFC East this year.

TroyF · 10-17-2005, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Seymour is the kind of player that changes the way teams prepare. If he's out, there's no need to double team him, etc.. He's a special player, like Harrison or Bruschi, just not as much of a leader.

True, they've been rotating so many different players in and out, there's no cohesion at all. Even their back-ups to the back-ups are getting hurt. Eventually you hit the wall. Although I think the main difference right now is their linebackers not being able to cover up the secondary's weakness' anymore. Monty Biesel is not a good player. Who got faked out of his pants on the game killing first down by Denver? I'm not sure that buying ex-Chiefs defenders is the way to improve your D. McGinnest is playing with one hand. Maybe Roman Phifer is tired of playing golf.

I think the bye week couldn't have come any sooner. Bruschi's return would hopefully put Biesel on the bench, which I think would be an enormous boost and they can at least start getting some bodies back.

Edit: all that said, this season has 9-7 written all over it. Which thankfully may be enough to win the AFC East this year.

I understand how good Seymour is. A very underrated player. I just don't think he's going to turn a team who has sacked the QB like 12 times in 6 weeks into a team that gets consistent pressure on the QB. The NE defense has looked truly dominant for about one half of football this year. The second half of the Pitt game, even with Harrison out.

I'm especially bothered by the play calling. On Denvers first long pass, they sent seven. Against Pitt with the game on the line, they sent seven.

Look, that secondary is horrible, they can't hold up if you are sending seven guys and in both situations they didn't need to make that call. (against Pitt the front four was just fine, Denver had yet to move the ball at all today)

That's just not good coaching. Far be it from me to criticize a guy who has won three titles, but I simply don't understand those calls. (and what the hell, Shanahan has won two titles as a head coach and I've criticized him)

Two more things. . .

1) Brady isn't lasting the year if he's taking this sort of pounding every week. He's a special, special, special QB, but he isn't invincible. He's taking a pounding.

2) I would never count NE out. You saw me today say that the game wasn't over, even at 28-3, because of Brady. I think they have some MAJOR problems right now, but I wouldn't discount them.

Desnudo · 10-17-2005, 01:58 AM

Yeah, I don't understand the play calling on those long balls either. It's obvious they were not expecting Denver to throw deep at all because both safeties were nowhere to be found on both big passing plays. I definitely don't feel the Patriots have the mystical "he knows what we're doing before we do" vibe anymore, but that may be down to the talent on the field.

Interestingly, with all the problems on defense, the offense is in good shape, except for Dillon and Light. And despite all the problems, the only game they've really been out of was SD. Looking at the crud that comprises the AFC East right now, I definitely see them in the playoffs. What the injury list looks like in January will probably determine their success.

As for Denver, yes, the coach getting tight-assed on play calling is definitely something to worry about. Rod Smith could have single-handledly ended the game if they'd let him.

TroyF · 10-17-2005, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Yeah, I don't understand the play calling on those long balls either. It's obvious they were not expecting Denver to throw deep at all because both safeties were nowhere to be found on both big passing plays. I definitely don't feel the Patriots have the mystical "he knows what we're doing before we do" vibe anymore, but that may be down to the talent on the field.

Interestingly, with all the problems on defense, the offense is in good shape, except for Dillon and Light. And despite all the problems, the only game they've really been out of was SD. Looking at the crud that comprises the AFC East right now, I definitely see them in the playoffs. What the injury list looks like in January will probably determine their success.

As for Denver, yes, the coach getting tight-assed on play calling is definitely something to worry about. Rod Smith could have single-handledly ended the game if they'd let him.

Your first line is what really bothers me about this team desnudo. Matt Schaub threw deep on you, did the Pats really believe that just because Denver hasn't been able to connect deep this year that they'd watch that game film and go "Oh God, we just can't throw deep middle with coverage like that, we'll stick to the underneath stuff"

You didn't have to be a defensive genius like Belicek to figure Denver was going to try to gash them with big passes deep. Oh well, we'll see how the season plays out.

Desnudo · 10-17-2005, 03:42 PM

Well Belichek's strategy is always to take away the one thing a team does best and force them to beat them using another way. I'm sure the strategy going in was to take away the run and force Denver to beat them deep, which they did. At some point, given that the Steelers also beat them deep, you really have to consider what kind of plays you're calling.

Of course it's hard to tell how much is down to play calling, and how much is down to blown reads by the secondary.

rkmsuf · 10-17-2005, 03:49 PM

Quote:

2) I would never count NE out. You saw me today say that the game wasn't over, even at 28-3, because of Brady. I think they have some MAJOR problems right now, but I wouldn't discount them.

Had Givens caught the ball I think they had an excellent chance at getting the game even.

Bottom line is that Beisel, Chad Brown and Starks suck. It's that simple. Starks can't run at all and the linebackers can't shed blocks. These guys are 4th string for a reason and no gameplan makes up for that.

Combine that with no Dillon, Mankins and Brown and it's a tribute to the Pats they didn't pack it in at 28-3.

If they don't get healthier though it won't matter.

WSUCougar · 10-17-2005, 03:56 PM

That initial few minutes (in game time) of the Seahawks/Texans game was perhaps the ugliest NFL "action" I've ever seen. Penalties on literally every play, mainly on the Texans, but three on Seahawks DE Bryce Fisher for lining up in the neutral zone. I thought Holmgren was going to burst into flames.

And man, what is with Shaun Alexander and Sunday Night Football?!? I mean...damn!

Butter · 10-17-2005, 04:02 PM

You guys need to seriously start up a thread just for the Broncos games. Seriously.

RendeR · 10-17-2005, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

You guys need to seriously start up a thread just for the Broncos games. Seriously.

Now now, don't let those pats fans off the hook either. if ew removed both broncos and pats commentary from this thread it would only be 10 posts long.....

10-17-2005, 01:20 AM	#222
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Seymour is the kind of player that changes the way teams prepare. If he's out, there's no need to double team him, etc.. He's a special player, like Harrison or Bruschi, just not as much of a leader. True, they've been rotating so many different players in and out, there's no cohesion at all. Even their back-ups to the back-ups are getting hurt. Eventually you hit the wall. Although I think the main difference right now is their linebackers not being able to cover up the secondary's weakness' anymore. Monty Biesel is not a good player. Who got faked out of his pants on the game killing first down by Denver? I'm not sure that buying ex-Chiefs defenders is the way to improve your D. McGinnest is playing with one hand. Maybe Roman Phifer is tired of playing golf. I think the bye week couldn't have come any sooner. Bruschi's return would hopefully put Biesel on the bench, which I think would be an enormous boost and they can at least start getting some bodies back. Edit: all that said, this season has 9-7 written all over it. Which thankfully may be enough to win the AFC East this year. Last edited by Desnudo : 10-17-2005 at 01:23 AM.

10-17-2005, 03:56 PM	#228
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	That initial few minutes (in game time) of the Seahawks/Texans game was perhaps the ugliest NFL "action" I've ever seen. Penalties on literally every play, mainly on the Texans, but three on Seahawks DE Bryce Fisher for lining up in the neutral zone. I thought Holmgren was going to burst into flames. And man, what is with Shaun Alexander and Sunday Night Football?!? I mean...damn! __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

10-17-2005, 04:02 PM	#229
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	You guys need to seriously start up a thread just for the Broncos games. Seriously. __________________ My listening habits

10-16-2005, 07:35 PM	#201
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Play action, deep pass to Lelie. Right now. This play. Come on Shanny, don't get too conservative here.

10-16-2005, 07:39 PM	#202
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Well, if Denver does end up losing this game, you have to look no further than the coach. Bailey out after the half. You know that. Yet you still get ultra conservative in the third and fourth quarters of a game trying to "hold on" when the other team can't stop you. An absolute joke, even if Denver hangs on to this one. Just inexcuseable coaching by the staff.

10-16-2005, 07:40 PM	#203
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Where was the hold? Where, where, where? The DT just got tackled. That's a damned joke. Unbelievable.

10-16-2005, 07:42 PM	#204
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	THAT IS GROUNDING!!!! CALL IT. About FREAKIN time.

10-16-2005, 07:44 PM	#206
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Givens' drop was huge. It looked like Branch got KO'd briefly when he landed.

10-16-2005, 07:44 PM	#207
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	That was nearly one hell of a catch by Branch. Don't worry Pats fans, I expect the conservative calls will continue here. And if they do, you'll have another shot.

10-16-2005, 07:45 PM	#208
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Second down, this MUST be a play action pass.

10-16-2005, 07:47 PM	#209
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	About freakin time Shanny. If the next run on first down picks up less than five, I think you play action again. And go deep. The Pats secondary can't hold up to the deep ball under normal conditions, not they are going to be playing up to stop the run. You have to try to WIN this game not try to hold on for dear life.

10-16-2005, 07:50 PM	#211
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Wasn't deep, but that was one hell of a play call there. Break off one run for ten yards and end this thing, PLEASE.

10-16-2005, 08:23 PM	#213
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	The NFC is a nightmare. The East and South have 7 of their 8 teams with winning records. The other two divisions have only 1 of 8. The AFC is also interesting. SD and NE at .500. Pitt 3-2. And then you have Cincy and Denver at 5-1. Of course, this is Indy's league right now. It's set up for them perfectly to win it all now.

10-16-2005, 08:43 PM	#215
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	You aren't kidding

10-16-2005, 09:21 PM	#217
miami_fan Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Land O Lakes FL	Thank you Texans for ensuring I won't be up til the end of the Sunday night game

10-17-2005, 01:58 AM	#224
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Yeah, I don't understand the play calling on those long balls either. It's obvious they were not expecting Denver to throw deep at all because both safeties were nowhere to be found on both big passing plays. I definitely don't feel the Patriots have the mystical "he knows what we're doing before we do" vibe anymore, but that may be down to the talent on the field. Interestingly, with all the problems on defense, the offense is in good shape, except for Dillon and Light. And despite all the problems, the only game they've really been out of was SD. Looking at the crud that comprises the AFC East right now, I definitely see them in the playoffs. What the injury list looks like in January will probably determine their success. As for Denver, yes, the coach getting tight-assed on play calling is definitely something to worry about. Rod Smith could have single-handledly ended the game if they'd let him.

10-17-2005, 03:42 PM	#226
Desnudo Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Here and There	Well Belichek's strategy is always to take away the one thing a team does best and force them to beat them using another way. I'm sure the strategy going in was to take away the run and force Denver to beat them deep, which they did. At some point, given that the Steelers also beat them deep, you really have to consider what kind of plays you're calling. Of course it's hard to tell how much is down to play calling, and how much is down to blown reads by the secondary.

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