Werewolf XXXIV: Tombstone (GAME OVER - Night 13)

[bulletsponge]

are we in a night action time?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

are we in a night action time?

No, today is an extended day 1 since it started in the evening on Sunday. Daytime will run until 9pm EST Monday night. Then we will go to the normal 12/12 clock.

Also you can check the thread title for the current deadline at any time, I will keep that updated throughout the day.

[hoopsguy]

I'll put my vote behind Cronin for now, as long as he does not jail/lynch Fouts for the word "Townsperson".

Spleen, I'll extend sincere apologies to you if at the end of the game you were exactly right on this Day 1 theory. But I like your Barkeep theory a little better.

It raises an interesting question - just how badly do the Cowboys want to be elected Sheriff?

VOTE CRONIN

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I'll put my vote behind Cronin for now, as long as he does not jail/lynch Fouts for the word "Townsperson".

Spleen, I'll extend sincere apologies to you if at the end of the game you were exactly right on this Day 1 theory.

I'm sure it doesn't mean anything at all. I believe I was the first person to pick up on the PM CoT, 'simple survivor', during the Lost game. I doubt it will be that easy again.

[st.cronin]

hoops, I'm actually going to bow out because of something I didn't think of earlier and which I would rather not get into yet.

I don't know who to vote for, though - this is just a guess.

unelect st.cronin

elect Lonestargirl

I urge people not to vote for me.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

I don't think he is lying. I think he has seer-like abilities, while being a cowboy.

I find it very unlikely he is a cowboy. Like Lathum said, it's way too risky of a move to make at this point. A townsperson might be a little rash and do this, because there are many townspeople. A cowboy would not want to attract such attention, because there probably isn't more than 3-4 of them. If his ploy backfires and he is killed, that is a significant blow to the cowboys.

Plus, let's say he is a cowboy and doesn't get protection or the Sheriff's job (which, BTW, he has never campaigned for nor did he vote for himself). Wouldn't it be suspicious if he doesn't get killed within the first couple nights? And without bodyguard protection, Night One?

Personally, I'm not willing to risk losing a seer just to prove he's on our side. I will go with Occam's Razor, figure he's a good townsperson and vote him in to Sheriff to protect him.

[Barkeep49]

spleen I appreciate what you're saying and all. I had the fortune of playing basically my first 3 or 4 games as a wolf. And I saw first hand how the lack of information was the wolf's biggest advantage. When there was a seer or reveal or some such that could even the playing field. Then when I played as a villager I got lynched because I wanted reveals, just like I do now. I am always among the foremost people in trying to form a circle of trust. It is circles of trust that win games. Period. In this game, I just think it makes sense for EVERYBODY to reveal their roles. I mean if the bad guys don't all have roles, which I think is a distinct possiblity, they are forced to make something up. So if somebody made up some role like, say, hotelier, and we probe deeper we might come up with something suspicous. Or if we start killing people and learn the details of their roles we can start to see a pattern amongst the good guy roles. Information = villagers good friend. I was hinting at this strategy even before the game started and I'm trying to implement it now. By my count, including my role, we have three reveals so far. I wish there would be more. Anything that makes the Cowboys scramble seem slike a good deal to me.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I find it very unlikely he is a cowboy. Like Lathum said, it's way too risky of a move to make at this point. A townsperson might be a little rash and do this, because there are many townspeople. A cowboy would not want to attract such attention, because there probably isn't more than 3-4 of them. If his ploy backfires and he is killed, that is a significant blow to the cowboys.

Plus, let's say he is a cowboy and doesn't get protection or the Sheriff's job (which, BTW, he has never campaigned for nor did he vote for himself). Wouldn't it be suspicious if he doesn't get killed within the first couple nights? And without bodyguard protection, Night One?

Personally, I'm not willing to risk losing a seer just to prove he's on our side. I will go with Occam's Razor, figure he's a good townsperson and vote him in to Sheriff to protect him.

you sure are standing up for Barkeep a lot. and yall both voted for me to go to jail. hmmm

[path12]

Does everyone have a vice? And can there be multiple vices for a particular person?

[Barkeep49]

I have to say I'm VERY uncomfortable with all this speculation of me as a seer. I had hoped by ignoring it the meme would drop. Without getting into too much detail, my role clearly, as explained publicly, has to do with information. However, I have no clue about the quality of this information, first of all, and second of all my getting the information is not guarenteed. If I was a traditional seer, I would have changed my gameplan and not pushed for this role reveal. Now beyond that I am simply NOT going to speculate more about my role.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by path12

Does everyone have a vice? And can there be multiple vices for a particular person?

Not everyone has a vice, if my interpretation of the rules is correct (as it mentions people being immune to vices).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

you sure are standing up for Barkeep a lot. and yall both voted for me to go to jail. hmmm

bullet, I am standing up for Barkeep because I strongly believe he has seer-like qualities and he will die on Night One if he isn't protected. I know you know the value of seers, so I would question why you're not standing up with me to protect him.

Also, if Barkeep and I were in cahoots (as in cowboys), why would we vote for each other? One would vote for himself, and the other for that same person to get two votes on one person. Neither Barkeep nor I have even advocated for being Sheriff, and I have actively said I do not want the position.

Also, I disagree with him on his particular reveal, even if I understand and somewhat support his general stance on revealing helping us townsfolk.

I think about the only thing Barkeep and I agree on right now is that we both believe the other is not a cowboy.

[hoopsguy]

Chief Rum, my biggest problem with Barkeep is that I do not understand why he would reveal in the first 30 minutes as either a seer or as a role with the potential to be a seer. Guess that is part of what makes the game fun - that someone I've played 10+ games with can still surprise the heck out of me from time to time.

I get what he is saying about Circle of Trust - I'm a big fan. But the way I see it the risk/reward isn't there if he is what I believe him to be. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I have to say I'm VERY uncomfortable with all this speculation of me as a seer. I had hoped by ignoring it the meme would drop. Without getting into too much detail, my role clearly, as explained publicly, has to do with information. However, I have no clue about the quality of this information, first of all, and second of all my getting the information is not guarenteed. If I was a traditional seer, I would have changed my gameplan and not pushed for this role reveal. Now beyond that I am simply NOT going to speculate more about my role.

Well, that makes your move a little more understandable then, if you did not believe you were a seer (and I'm sure you have a better idea of that than I).

That said, I think it's perception. Even if the bartender is not the seer, his description sounds like a seer. So whether you are or not is irrelevant--if the wolves think you are a seer, they will kill you. And only a complete newbie group of wolves would miss the implications of your role reveal, even without the following discussion which targeted it.

Honestly, I fear you may have put yourself on the cowboys' chopping block (and I will admit, I may be after that, with my support of you).

[path12]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I have to say I'm VERY uncomfortable with all this speculation of me as a seer. I had hoped by ignoring it the meme would drop. Without getting into too much detail, my role clearly, as explained publicly, has to do with information. However, I have no clue about the quality of this information, first of all, and second of all my getting the information is not guarenteed. If I was a traditional seer, I would have changed my gameplan and not pushed for this role reveal. Now beyond that I am simply NOT going to speculate more about my role.

Well, that's a little bit like cracking the barn door open and then being pissed when the horse escapes, but for what it's worth I agree with you that this is a line of speculation that only helps the cowboys.

After considering more, I see no way that revealing my role hurts the townspeople whatsoever. I am the baker, kids -- get your bread here!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Chief Rum, my biggest problem with Barkeep is that I do not understand why he would reveal in the first 30 minutes as either a seer or as a role with the potential to be a seer. Guess that is part of what makes the game fun - that someone I've played 10+ games with can still surprise the heck out of me from time to time.

I get what he is saying about Circle of Trust - I'm a big fan. But the way I see it the risk/reward isn't there if he is what I believe him to be. I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here.

hoops, I think you and I are seeign this exactly the same way. I was stunned by the move, as much as was it RealDeal's similar type of move a couple games back (I believe it was the Mutant game).

[bulletsponge]

as i read it, Barkeep isnt a seer. he cant scan peoples posts i bet. but might get some info from drinkers, but even then it wont be ironclad info. i doubt any villagers role is very powerful, but everyone has some power

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, that's a little bit like cracking the barn door open and then being pissed when the horse escapes, but for what it's worth I agree with you that this is a line of speculation that only helps the cowboys.

After considering more, I see no way that revealing my role hurts the townspeople whatsoever. I am the baker, kids -- get your bread here!

wtf does the baker do???

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

After considering more, I see no way that revealing my role hurts the townspeople whatsoever. I am the baker, kids -- get your bread here!

Gotta any of that special peyote wheat yeast? I want to hot box my little shack on the outskirts of town.

[path12]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

wtf does the baker do???

Bakes bread, apparently. You might need to soak up that alcohol one of these days.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

wtf does the baker do???

That's the thing. I think we should name our role and no more. Sure we can speculate to ourselves what the roles do, but that should be it for the time being. Giving out the specifics of roles DOES help the cowboys more than the villagers I feel.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Gotta any of that special peyote wheat yeast? I want to hot box my little shack on the outskirts of town.

You mean Granny's Talkin' Cow Wheat? Should have some for you this week.

[Glengoyne]

OK, so Barkeep deals with a shady set of characters who are willing to trade information.

However, he really doesn't know if the information he is securing is anywhere near correct. So he has a weak type of seer role.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

hoops, I think you and I are seeign this exactly the same way. I was stunned by the move, as much as was it RealDeal's similar type of move a couple games back (I believe it was the Mutant game).

RealDeal was a villager in that game, ftr.

[Barkeep49]

I must have missed that game. What did RealDeal do?

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

wtf does the baker do???

My thoughts surrounding the Baker and the Butcher involve the wielding of knives.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

RealDeal was a villager in that game, ftr.

Yup, but he still ended up just as dead. Ironically, it is because people questioned why he would reveal so soon, and he was actually lynched before Chaos could get to him.

Basically, Barkeep, he made a revelation that sounded a lot like a seer role, and then disappeared for the day. People were stunned by his reveal, thought he was up to something funny and lynched him for it.

I think he would have been dead that night anyway if he wasn't voted, because Chaos wouldn't have known what to do with him either.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I must have missed that game. What did RealDeal do?

He said on day 1 that he could not be killed by badguys - only by a lynch. So, of course, he immediately got lynched.

[Barkeep49]

That's pretty funny actually. I only wish I were so invincible.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yup, but he still ended up just as dead. Ironically, it is because people questioned why he would reveal so soon, and he was actually lynched before Chaos could get to him.

Basically, Barkeep, he made a revelation that sounded a lot like a seer role, and then disappeared for the day. People were stunned by his reveal, thought he was up to something funny and lynched him for it.

I think he would have been dead that night anyway if he wasn't voted, because Chaos wouldn't have known what to do with him either.

Oh, he did it on Day 1, when none of us had a clue what was going on and were grasping for a legit reason to hang someone (or execute, as it were, in that game).

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Yup, but he still ended up just as dead. Ironically, it is because people questioned why he would reveal so soon, and he was actually lynched before Chaos could get to him.

Basically, Barkeep, he made a revelation that sounded a lot like a seer role, and then disappeared for the day. People were stunned by his reveal, thought he was up to something funny and lynched him for it.

I think he would have been dead that night anyway if he wasn't voted, because Chaos wouldn't have known what to do with him either.

He did not disappear, he presented what actually would have been a fairly solid plan. But got lynched anyway.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

He said on day 1 that he could not be killed by badguys - only by a lynch. So, of course, he immediately got lynched.

Yup, that's it. Not a seer thing, but more of a "surprising revelation" similarity.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

He did not disappear, he presented what actually would have been a fairly solid plan. But got lynched anyway.

My memory may be fuzzy. I thought he made the revelation, talked a little bit about it, but then disappeared most of the rest of the day. I thought he wasn't around much when the votes turned on him, and everyone was practically begging for him to expand more on what he said (IIRC).

[Swaggs]

I'm going to go with st. cronin as sheriff. I actually like the fact that he voted for himself, because it seems like it would be easy for one cowboy to subtly nominate another cowboy and have everyone else pile on.

Hopefully he is willing to accept the job.

Elect st. cronin

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm going to go with st. cronin as sheriff. I actually like the fact that he voted for himself, because it seems like it would be easy for one cowboy to subtly nominate another cowboy and have everyone else pile on.

Hopefully he is willing to accept the job.

Elect st. cronin

no please don't - I think it's important that I NOT be sherriff

[Glengoyne]

I think I'm going to be away from the computer tomorrow when the polls close, so I'll vote for the one person asking for the job currently.

Elect LSG

The Barkeep strategy sounds fair as well. I'll check in tomorrow around noon pacific.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I'll throw my name in the ring for sheriff. if people are looking for more people to vote on. I think this is a role we need to have filled ASAP though...even if it's not someone we fully trust to start off with.

I'm a town folk BTW checking in.

I vote to

ELECT SnDvls

[Grammaticus]

I probably won't have access until late Monday as I'm hitting the road for a long drive Monday, so I want to slip a vote in while I can.

I don't think BK is a seer or he would likely not have started a push for role reveals right away. Not saying he is a cowboy, just don't see the move as a "feel good" thing right now. Cronin says he does not want the job, so I say don't elect him based on that. Don't know what to think of LSG, so I didn't go that route.

SnDvl seemed to be on target with his statement to fill ASAP. I agree and the Sheriff needs to commit to jailing someone and supporting a lynch vote, too.

[Grammaticus]

Also, if BK really is the seer, he is not immune to night kills if he uses his powers, so making him sheriff for the sole purpose of protecting the seer is really a fairly useless motive. That is, if I read the rules and AlanT's posts correctly.

[Chief Rum]

Well, this will no doubt be my last post until maybe an hour before deadline, if that. Going to bed, then wake up and go to work all day.

But I should be back to check in by 5 p.m. PDT (8 p.m. EST). For now, I will stick with my Barkeep vote, but we'll see if it holds up to the deadline tomorrow.

See y'all tomorrow.

[Fouts]

Well, I guess I better reveal before spleen gets me jailed and lynched. I am the school teacher. If you want your kids to grow up dumb, then go ahead and lynch me.

[Thomkal]

:::deals another hand of blackjack to Bullet and congratulates him on hitting 21:::

Elect Fouts

[spleen1015]

Revealing roles does nothing to convince me which side you are on.

[Alan T]

Good morning fine citizens of Tombstone. Just a hair under 13 hours until deadline. Current vote totals for today are:

Sheriff election:

(5) Lonestargirl - Bulletsponge (109), Fouts (121), Lathum (180), St.cronin (205), Glengoyne (236)
(3) St.cronin - Spleen (174), hoopsguy (203), Swaggs (234)
(2) Barkeep - Chief Rum (168), Racer (175)
(1) hoopsguy - ntndeacon (104)
(1) Chiefrum - Barkeep (149)
(1) Saldana - Anxiety (176)
(1) SnDvls - Grammaticus (237)
(1) Fouts - Thomkal (242)

Lynch votes:

No elgible candidates for lynch vote today.

[spleen1015]

UNELECT st. cronin

Since he is asking that we not vote for him, I won't vote for him. I don't know who I want to vote for at this point, though.

[hoopsguy]

Basically I'm in the same place that Spleen is - I'll move my vote from Cronin but at the moment there doesn't appear to be a viable alternate candidate for LoneStarGirl. No issues with LSG, but I'm not sure a runaway really helps us out either if we need to look at voting patterns later in the game.

Upon further reflection, I'll put a vote out there for Saldana. This should help him avoid being an early night kill - something that has plagued him in recent games.

UNELECT ST. CRONIN
ELECT SALDANA

[Racer]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, that's a little bit like cracking the barn door open and then being pissed when the horse escapes, but for what it's worth I agree with you that this is a line of speculation that only helps the cowboys.

After considering more, I see no way that revealing my role hurts the townspeople whatsoever. I am the baker, kids -- get your bread here!

Okay, I have given this some thought. The problem with revealing roles like the baker is that if night actions are tied to specific roles, then a role like the baker that appears to have no night actions probably has no night actions. This would not be bad except for the fact that it helps the Cowboys narrow the list of villagers that may have important night roles.

Someone also said that if someone performs a night action, then being sheriff does not prevent them from being killed at night. However, performing night actions to many nights in a row also causes the player to appear tired. By making Barkeep sheriff, it will at least help protect him on nights that he rests. If Barkeep chooses to rest some nights to avoid appearing tired, then it becomes a crapshoot for the Cowboys on what night to try to kill Barkeep. This is all under the assumption that Barkeep is not Cowboy.

[path12]

First day back to work in two weeks, about 300 emails to go through means that I'll be very in and out today.

Nothing against LSG, but I think I'd prefer a more experienced player in the sheriff role, like a Swaggs, Saldana, Lathum. My choice will likely come from one of those.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Racer

Okay, I have given this some thought. The problem with revealing roles like the baker is that if night actions are tied to specific roles, then a role like the baker that appears to have no night actions probably has no night actions. This would not be bad except for the fact that it helps the Cowboys narrow the list of villagers that may have important night roles.

Someone also said that if someone performs a night action, then being sheriff does not prevent them from being killed at night. However, performing night actions to many nights in a row also causes the player to appear tired. By making Barkeep sheriff, it will at least help protect him on nights that he rests. If Barkeep chooses to rest some nights to avoid appearing tired, then it becomes a crapshoot for the Cowboys on what night to try to kill Barkeep. This is all under the assumption that Barkeep is not Cowboy.

This is only a problem IF we assume that night actions can be tied to specific roles. For now, I see no basis whatsoever for this assumption.

[ntndeacon]

I am of the opinion that giving up all of our roles is a mistake. At least this early. I think that as the game goes along more info will be available and maybe then it will be a better time to put that info out there.