Shooting at Connecticut School

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

Those poor people don't give two fucks about anyone else's bullshit right now. Wtf difference does what anyone else discusses have to do with this beyond your own sense of whats right and proper?

As for the recent bannings:
The moderating needs to get a fucking grip. I understand you're just trying to derail any possible "get out of hand" items but you're killing gnats with a sledgehammer right now. Knock it off.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by molson

The fact that someone would intentionally commit these acts against children adds a level of horror and emotion to things but from a pure safety standpoint, there could be a lot more school shootings and kids would still be safer in school than they are in cars on the way to school, or even at home. I'm seeing some facebook sentiment about homeschooling and other drastic measures and I hope that's just the emotion of the moment.

People are comforted by having the illusion of control and safety. One of my vivid memories of 9/11/2001 was in that regard. I invited many of the teenagers that I knew to gather and just talk shortly after school on that day. A Senior guy asked "do you think we are safe?" I thought for a few seconds and responded that if we were honest, we weren't safe before, and we aren't safe after. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Sure, homeschooling removes the child from one potential mass-killing field, but apart from martial law or living in a compound, there will always be opportunities for these kinds of acts.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by molson

On the journalistic ethics topic:

ABC Reporter Reaches Out to Possible Sandy Hook Victim; Is Told to 'Eat a Dick'

I feel a bit guilty about it, but I LOL'd

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

We all deal with tragedy and grief in different ways. We're not embedded in the Connecticut community so we're going to view things from afar and not in a direct personal nature. We can only relate to how it might happen to us and how we might feel. However, I think you've seen a lot in this thread of people concerned about it happening again and wanting to do something about it. There is some measure of trying to prevent the next tragedy as a way with coping with those feelings of a lack of safety. People want to do something about it to keep it from happening again.

And feel free to ignore this next paragraph if you don't want to look at the politics of it. However, there's an easy argument to be had that one shouldn't make a decision this close to a tragedy as the emotion clouds judgment and I think that's how we ended up with, say, the Patriot Act. But I would argue that converse is that the Dodd-Frank Act is what happens when you wait too long after a crisis to do something about it so you get a watered down bill which will not prevent the future catastrophes it was trying to prevent.

SI

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I fully understand that there has been school violence before, or even deaths in schools.. but this one just hit home the worst for me, the most helpless targets possible. How am I supposed to feel good every day letting my three daughters and virtually all of my family go to a place that seems now a days to be one of the top targets for senseless violence?

This pretty much sums up how I feel.

I am so impressed by those that can discuss the policy/politics rationally at this point. I like to think I could discuss anything rationally at any point. This has taught me that is not the case. This incident just has left me with such sadness. I just have no interest in that type of discussion at this point.

[Grover]

I'm all for more gun control (more criminal background checks, etc), but where is the discussion on this country's care for those who are mentally ill. That is just as big if not a bigger issue than gun control here.

edit: hopefully the crazy moderator folks don't ban me for this one.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

And feel free to ignore this next paragraph if you don't want to look at the politics of it. However, there's an easy argument to be had that one shouldn't make a decision this close to a tragedy as the emotion clouds judgment and I think that's how we ended up with, say, the Patriot Act. But I would argue that converse is that the Dodd-Frank Act is what happens when you wait too long after a crisis to do something about it so you get a watered down bill which will not prevent the future catastrophes it was trying to prevent.

I agree. But if we are to have a rational discussion, we have to look at ALL aspects, not just gun control. These incidents are ramping up in frequency, what has been changing that might explain it? Not advocating for or against any particular position (I'd probably argue against a few of these, and both sides of others), but we have to discuss guns in general, gang culture plus violence in movies and video games (reference a culture desensitized to violence), internet / social media plus media in general (reference to quick spread of the story), past mass killings that have involved a variety of motives and methods (things like the Dallas Bell Tower, Oklahoma City, Atlanta Olympics, etc), and population growth (our society puts more people in contact with more other people constantly). It just seems to me that in the past many suicides have an included an element of "my death will show them and punish those who harmed me!", but for some it's grown to "as part of my death I have a way to punish those who harmed me and get my side of the story out!". Why that change? But it's not just suicides either, as the Colorado Movie Theater showed.

My fear would be a kneejerk reaction that doesn't actually address the problem, but I also agree that waiting until everything cools down may lead to a minimalist reaction that does nothing to address the problem. We have to find that middle ground and work towards something that has a shot at improving the situation.

[Buccaneer]

I also think people have different perspectives, thus a diversity of reactions/posts. There is the tendency among a lot of people to forget even the near distant past (tragedies, sports, wars, disasters, politics, etc.) that it puts the sole spotlight on the latest event. This was truly a bad one and I can't imagine what it was like to be there. But in my lifetime, I knew of wars that killed 60,000 (not 4,000 like the recent ones) and race/protest riots where there were dozens killed daily. I also remember most of the school killings (like the one a kid came in and shot up a bible study). Newtown is probably the worst so far in my view, but it will not get better no matter what laws, regulations or rules were enact.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Grover

I'm all for more gun control (more criminal background checks, etc), but where is the discussion on this country's care for those who are mentally ill. That is just as big if not a bigger issue than gun control here.

I missed that one, it should get added to my list of discussion points. I'm sure there are others.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by molson

The fact that someone would intentionally commit these acts against children adds a level of horror and emotion to things but from a pure safety standpoint, there could be a lot more school shootings and kids would still be safer in school than they are in cars on the way to school, or even at home. I'm seeing some facebook sentiment about homeschooling and other drastic measures and I hope that's just the emotion of the moment.

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

People are comforted by having the illusion of control and safety. One of my vivid memories of 9/11/2001 was in that regard. I invited many of the teenagers that I knew to gather and just talk shortly after school on that day. A Senior guy asked "do you think we are safe?" I thought for a few seconds and responded that if we were honest, we weren't safe before, and we aren't safe after. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Sure, homeschooling removes the child from one potential mass-killing field, but apart from martial law or living in a compound, there will always be opportunities for these kinds of acts.

That's kind of where I am with this (and most random large-scale attacks like this). As abhorrent as this is, and as much as it (re-)rips away the illusion of safety, things like this have happened before ( Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), will happen again, and there isn't a solution. I just rely on this being such an unlikely event that it's not worth worrying about, and instead focus on the things that are much more likely to kill children and that we can control.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Grover

I'm all for more gun control (more criminal background checks, etc), but where is the discussion on this country's care for those who are mentally ill. That is just as big if not a bigger issue than gun control here.

edit: hopefully the crazy moderator folks don't ban me for this one.

This this this. We continue to defund mental health programs across the country, when we actually should have been doubling and tripling up on funding. Even now, mental health has a negative stigma to it, yet it is a part of the root causes of many of our social ills (crime, poverty, homelessness).

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

That's kind of where I am with this (and most random large-scale attacks like this). As abhorrent as this is, and as much as it (re-)rips away the illusion of safety, things like this have happened before ( Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), will happen again, and there isn't a solution. I just rely on this being such an unlikely event that it's not worth worrying about, and instead focus on the things that are much more likely to kill children and that we can control.

The Bath school bombing is one that most people don't know about, but is still the deadliest school mass murder.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

People are comforted by having the illusion of control and safety. One of my vivid memories of 9/11/2001 was in that regard. I invited many of the teenagers that I knew to gather and just talk shortly after school on that day. A Senior guy asked "do you think we are safe?" I thought for a few seconds and responded that if we were honest, we weren't safe before, and we aren't safe after. If someone wants to take you out, they can. Sure, homeschooling removes the child from one potential mass-killing field, but apart from martial law or living in a compound, there will always be opportunities for these kinds of acts.

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I also think people have different perspectives, thus a diversity of reactions/posts. There is the tendency among a lot of people to forget even the near distant past (tragedies, sports, wars, disasters, politics, etc.) that it puts the sole spotlight on the latest event. This was truly a bad one and I can't imagine what it was like to be there. But in my lifetime, I knew of wars that killed 60,000 (not 4,000 like the recent ones) and race/protest riots where there were dozens killed daily. I also remember most of the school killings (like the one a kid came in and shot up a bible study). Newtown is probably the worst so far in my view, but it will not get better no matter what laws, regulations or rules were enact.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

That's kind of where I am with this (and most random large-scale attacks like this). As abhorrent as this is, and as much as it (re-)rips away the illusion of safety, things like this have happened before ( Bath School disaster - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ), will happen again, and there isn't a solution. I just rely on this being such an unlikely event that it's not worth worrying about, and instead focus on the things that are much more likely to kill children and that we can control.

But you can understand why these sort of responses aren't all that comforting to people. In a time of disbelief, even moreso than grief, a dispassionate and calculated (and probably correct): "It's going to happen again and there's nothing we can do about it" is not going to satisfy those whose world views were changed by this event. And I'm not necessarily talking about those who live in Connecticut, but, again, those among us who have a reasonable expectation of safety and security at school shattered by an event such as this. It's understandable that people want an answer and want to be told it won't happen again and there's no way to convince them of "it's happened before and will happen again" will suffice.

Also, I think (and as I've argued in other threads after similar tragedies), these are times for reflection in society as to whether we think particular actions or decisions we make as a society are prudent ones, whether they would have affected this particular incident or not. This way you can make changes for the better on the margins and feel that you're improving things even if it wouldn't have necessarily have done anything about this particular incident.

SI

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Whatever your view is, tragedy strengthens it. If you believe in gun control, something like this enforces your belief that there are too many guns available to too many people. If you're pro-gun you want to arm teachers, faculty and maybe even the students.

I'm of the belief that guns don't kill people. People kill people. But people with guns kill a lot more people more efficiently than people without guns.

So fucking ban me.

[molson]

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by molson

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year

Good stuff.

[SegRat]

Originally Posted by molson

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year

They need to show more of this on CNN

[King of New York]

So the mother, Nancy Lanza, has an emotionally disturbed son, but she is also an avid gun collector who, at least according to one person who claims to have known her, takes her sons to a shooting range.

That's a really, really bad combination, and not just in hindsight.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

So who's up for a cheesy internet compilation of 26 moments that restored our faith in humanity this year?! I was.

26 Moments That Restored Our Faith In Humanity This Year

Can never get enough of stuff like this

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Can these poor people at least bury their children before the political arguments take over ?

It started up on my FB less than than two hours after I first saw the story (which was well into the afternoon). All of the initial stuff came from one side, which seemed to prompt a response. And, honestly, it doesn't seem to be something where it's wise to allow the opposing viewpoint to dictate the tone of the conversation that is likely to follow.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by King of New York

So the mother, Nancy Lanza, has an emotionally disturbed son, but she is also an avid gun collector who, at least according to one person who claims to have known her, takes her sons to a shooting range.

That's a really, really bad combination, and not just in hindsight.

This is the aspect of the story that seems really tragic to me. Just seems like a combination of poor decision making, mental illness, and opportunity created a worst possible scenario. She'll probably get a pass from criticism since she was killed, but you do have to wonder wtf was going on in that house.

[IlliniCub]

Anything said about possible motive yet if there was one? I wonder if it was planned or if after killing his mom he just chose a location at random?

[SirFozzie]

Mourn the heroes involved. No greater love, as the saying goes.

Victoria Soto, who had taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School for five years and was described by one distraught 10-year-old as “really nice and funny”, offered the ultimate sacrifice, throwing herself between the gunman and her pupils.

One first-grade pupil described how Miss Soto moved all the children towards the back of the classroom when it became apparent that there was a gunman in the school. He said Lanza then came in and shot Miss Soto in front of the children. The boy, who spoke to CNN, said he was then able to run away past the gunman.

Jim Wiltsie, Miss Soto’s cousin, said: “She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed. I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm. It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero.

Connecticut school shooting: Teachers tell how they hid with children to escape gunman - Telegraph

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Mourn the heroes involved. No greater love, as the saying goes.

Victoria Soto, who had taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School for five years and was described by one distraught 10-year-old as “really nice and funny”, offered the ultimate sacrifice, throwing herself between the gunman and her pupils.

One first-grade pupil described how Miss Soto moved all the children towards the back of the classroom when it became apparent that there was a gunman in the school. He said Lanza then came in and shot Miss Soto in front of the children. The boy, who spoke to CNN, said he was then able to run away past the gunman.

Jim Wiltsie, Miss Soto’s cousin, said: “She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed. I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm. It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero.

Connecticut school shooting: Teachers tell how they hid with children to escape gunman - Telegraph

Great article--thanks for the link. I am awestruck at the courage and quick-thinking of the teachers and staff.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Wow. Looks like he telegraphed his act anonymously on a message board.

» Real Or Fake? “I’m Going to Kill Myself on Friday and it Will Make the News” Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Wow. Looks like he telegraphed his act anonymously on a message board.

» Real Or Fake? “I’m Going to Kill Myself on Friday and it Will Make the News” Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

The story says he posted on 4chan. He may have, but there are lots of sites out there that "fued" with 4chan, with either side setting up fake photoshopped screen shots to make the other look bad after a tragedy.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Mourn the heroes involved. No greater love, as the saying goes.

Victoria Soto, who had taught at Sandy Hook Elementary School for five years and was described by one distraught 10-year-old as “really nice and funny”, offered the ultimate sacrifice, throwing herself between the gunman and her pupils.

One first-grade pupil described how Miss Soto moved all the children towards the back of the classroom when it became apparent that there was a gunman in the school. He said Lanza then came in and shot Miss Soto in front of the children. The boy, who spoke to CNN, said he was then able to run away past the gunman.

Jim Wiltsie, Miss Soto’s cousin, said: “She put herself between the gunman and the children and that’s when she was tragically shot and killed. I’m just proud that Vicki had the instincts to protect her kids from harm. It brings peace to know that Vicki was doing what she loved, protecting the children and in our eyes she’s a hero.

Connecticut school shooting: Teachers tell how they hid with children to escape gunman - Telegraph

Of course my cynical side is saying Soto is the one who's image is being passed around on FB since she attractive.

[whomario]

Just a tragedy ... Dunno how, but this has to be stopped. At least people in power ought to make a concerted effort to try.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by whomario

Just a tragedy ... Dunno how, but this has to be stopped. At least people in power ought to make a concerted effort to try.

The people in power made drugs illegal but I don't think that made a difference either. Just like in medicine, you have to attack the root causes and the people in power have tried for millineums to stop people from killing each other. What they can do is to beef up security at schools, as they do in places of businesses. But that will likely take resources away from other areas, esp. when school districts have to pay for it.

[molson]

I wonder if violent movies/video games will soon be a target again.

'Family Guy,' 'American Dad' Pulled After Rampage : NPR

[chinaski]

Originally Posted by molson

I wonder if violent movies/video games will soon be a target again.

'Family Guy,' 'American Dad' Pulled After Rampage : NPR

So stupid.

Fox pulled new episodes of "Family Guy" and "American Dad" that were to air Sunday to avoid potentially sensitive content. The originally scheduled episode of "Family Guy" had Peter telling his own version of the nativity story. The "American Dad" episode told the story of a demon who punished naughty children at Christmas. Both series plan to substitute reruns.

[chadritt]

Either of those shows could have actually had a scene where a kid gets shot. American Dads christmas episodes especially can get DARK and weird. Theyll be shown one day, then well know if it was stupid or not.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

The people in power made drugs illegal but I don't think that made a difference either. Just like in medicine, you have to attack the root causes and the people in power have tried for millineums to stop people from killing each other. What they can do is to beef up security at schools, as they do in places of businesses. But that will likely take resources away from other areas, esp. when school districts have to pay for it.

There´s a ton of industrialized countries with way lower murder rates than the US (Britain is a prime example). Sure it´s nothing that can be changed overnight and it might be too late by now, but that doesn´t mean it shouldn´t be given a try.

@ chinaski : I don´t find this stupid at all. What´s the downside here ? It´s not like theese shows (or any other) are essential for anyones standard of living.

I am a big proponent of freedom of press/speech/whatever, but if there´s no harm in not publishing/speaking/airing i don´t see why it´s a bad thing to be safe in such a situation.

[molson]

Originally Posted by whomario

@ chinaski : I don´t find this stupid at all. What´s the downside here ? It´s not like theese shows (or any other) are essential for anyones standard of living.

"Essential for anyone's standard of living" is a pretty high standard.

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by molson

I wonder if violent movies/video games will soon be a target again.

'Family Guy,' 'American Dad' Pulled After Rampage : NPR

As if they'd ever stopped being and weren't already?

'Mass Effect' Facebook Page Attacked Because Misidentified Shooting Suspect Liked It

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think there's probably some reasonable level of sensitivity that can be exercised short of the level of outright unreasonable censorship.

I saw an example of what I mean last night on my FB. Hard rockers Nonpoint mentioned that they initially decided not to perform their biggest hit "Bullet With A Name On It" at their concert last night in Baltimore. Ultimately they put the question to the audience,which made it clear they wanted it to be played. But there's a backstory here, as two members of the group have children under the age of 2 (one only 9 months or so). The discussion of their thought process is consistent with other things they've said on other subjects in the past, I completely believed it was a personal choice but one that they wrestled with professionally, leading them to take a different route. I could understand them choosing not to perform it last night for their own reasons, I can understand them choosing to perform it for ticket buying fans from a sense of professional obligation.

Those kinds of things aren't always a case of censorship=bad.

[chadritt]

Also, to be fair, nobodys being censored. The network decided for various reasons not to air it. Ive actually been on a show where this happened. We had something that due to a news event couldve been considered horribly insensitive so we worked overtime to remove it. Nobody told us to, we just all looked at it and went "yeah, thats bad."

ETA: just saw it was the network and not technically the creative team doing it. Still doesnt feel like censorship, just a VERY late network note.

[molson]

Originally Posted by mckerney

As if they'd ever stopped being and weren't already?

'Mass Effect' Facebook Page Attacked Because Misidentified Shooting Suspect Liked It

Sure, it just seems they were bigger targets in the past, and that it was a discussion that Hollywood and video game industry ultimately "won" in American culture. The balance between freedom and security is always going to be touchy when it comes not just to guns, but in terms of all this other stuff too - censorship (and non-government pressure on entertainment content), TSA, criminal sentencing, mental health.

[Matthean]

Via FB so who knows if Morgan Freeman said it or not.

Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

"You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.

It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."

[Buccaneer]

Regarding pulling shows, as long as it's not the government that is making that happen. Private companies can decide what product to sell or not for whatever reasons and be responsible for any successes, failures or consequences as the result.

[molson]

Morgan Freeman's just not quite the same in printed word form.

[RainMaker]

I think it's fair to show compassion and not jump on things politically or remove things that might be insensitive. At the same time, there seems to be a mass shooting of some kind every few weeks so when is the right time to talk about it?

If this was a terrorist attack of say someone blowing up a building, would we all be saying lets shelve any discussion on preventing terrorist attacks for a couple weeks? I feel like everyone would be on board trying to figure out how to prevent them as quickly as possible.

I don't know what the answer is. Whether it's guns, violent video games, mental health, whatever. But I do know we have a lot more of these than most civilized countries and perhaps we should figure out why before more people die.

[RainMaker]

I don't understand why people blame the sensationalist media. A person walked into an elementary school and slaughtered little kids. Are they supposed to do a 30 second bit on it and move on to the weather?

Don't like defending the media too much, but they do seem to fall into this no-win situation. If they cover the big event too much they are sensationalizing, if they cover garbage like Lindsay Lohan they are ignoring real news.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think it's fair to show compassion and not jump on things politically or remove things that might be insensitive. At the same time, there seems to be a mass shooting of some kind every few weeks so when is the right time to talk about it?

If this was a terrorist attack of say someone blowing up a building, would we all be saying lets shelve any discussion on preventing terrorist attacks for a couple weeks? I feel like everyone would be on board trying to figure out how to prevent them as quickly as possible.

I don't know what the answer is. Whether it's guns, violent video games, mental health, whatever. But I do know we have a lot more of these than most civilized countries and perhaps we should figure out why before more people die.

Freedom!

'Murika!

Don't question the Constitution - it's an infallible document!!

[molson]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I think it's fair to show compassion and not jump on things politically or remove things that might be insensitive. At the same time, there seems to be a mass shooting of some kind every few weeks so when is the right time to talk about it?

If this was a terrorist attack of say someone blowing up a building, would we all be saying lets shelve any discussion on preventing terrorist attacks for a couple weeks? I feel like everyone would be on board trying to figure out how to prevent them as quickly as possible.

I don't know what the answer is. Whether it's guns, violent video games, mental health, whatever. But I do know we have a lot more of these than most civilized countries and perhaps we should figure out why before more people die.

I think there'd be a little more tolerance for the policy discussion earlier if the tone was like it (usually) is here - pretty rational. People love to say "in before the lock" and all that but I think there's been plenty of rational gun control debates here. But some people on my facebook wall seem almost excited this happened. The grandstanding and the "blood is on your hands" stuff, ya, I'd rather they calm down and keep it to themselves for a few weeks. The vibe of the rhetoric is that if you have these certain political leanings than you care more about children than if you have these other political leanings (I say vibe but that's actually outright stated when the conversations get heated.) There's no rational discussion that can take place when that kind of emotion is involved. The freedom and security balance is really tricky, and the issues are complicated, and nobody has all the answers. If you can start a discussion where people agree with that, then there's no reason you can't have rational policy discussion any time.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

'Murika!

What's the point of this kind of stuff? This is where I can see the "too soon for policy discussion" argument. Where you see huge swaths of the the country as uneducated cartoon characters, it's tough to have a rational discussion. Edit: Maybe I'm just being sensitive, I just find that kind of stuff really off-putting, maybe because I've had about a million jokey conversations with people back home about living around "backwards" people now.

[JPhillips]

But the pro-gun people do the same thing. On my Facebook last night I had a college friend respond to a completely politics free post by saying that teachers should be armed and if they were these children wouldn't have died.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

But the pro-gun people do the same thing. On my Facebook last night I had a college friend respond to a completely politics free post by saying that teachers should be armed and if they were these children wouldn't have died.

That's my point. I'd say that a debate between that person and the "blood on your hands" people wouldn't be particularly productive, and would probably get really heated in a hurry. They wouldn't even really be discussing policy, they'd just be expressing their disdain for each other using this as a backdrop. That what makes it feel opportunistic and scummy, (to me), not the fact that someone wants to talk about policy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I hope that you'll indulge me what I'm about to post.

I'm also going to do something I don't think I've done here quite so blatantly as I'm about do: I'm going to ask that something I post be given, I dunno, some gentle treatment. If you hate it, or want to hate on some part of it ... try to exercise some restraint. If it seems more appropriate that I move this to another thread, I'm open to that.

What I'm posting is what I just saw on Facebook as my 14 y/o son's status update. It's probably more words than he's posted there in a month, almost certainly the longest thing I've ever seen him write outside of a school assignment.

I don't think I'm so much looking for approval here or even trying to maybe brag on my kid (maybe some of that, not for content so much as because of the honesty). I'm just kind of stunned by it, I haven't seen anything like this from his age group on the subject, maybe that's where the value lies. He's one of a bazillion teens out there, I reckon they have a stake in this thing too. And, judging from this, I don't know that a lot of them are really in much different a place than most of us.

Today and yesterday I have really been speechless. That's not really something that I have happen to me that much. The shooting in Connecticut really struck me. I started to think when I was that age. I found it hard to figure out what I would have done. I don't think I would have cried, but I don't think I would have been Mr. Hero either. But if there is any heroes in this type of situation it is always going to be the teachers and administration and other adults at the school. Those were the heroes yesterday. The principal gave her life to try and stop the gunman. A first grade teacher named Victoria Soto saved at least 15 lives by giving up hers. The other people that I think are heroes are the parents of the surviving children. They have comforted their surely shaken children. They have been deeply affected as well. But they are also helping the grieving parents of the children who were swiped away from them. I also think that the emergenc
y services have done a marvelous job so far. They have one of the toughest jobs. I can't imagine being one of the officers that stepped into that school and seeing all that destruction. I really want to express my condolences to everyone affected by this shooting. The politics of all this is really getting to me though. While we all have our own thoughts on gun laws and such, can we let this pass first begore we start debating? It has got to be hard to be a grieving family and the news networks are already starting to debate gun laws and the such. I certainly have my feelings on them and will start talking about it next week, but at the moment we all should focus on helping those families ( which people have done an amazing job of so far) affected. I am still processing this and at the moment I feel bad for the Lanza family. They have been fully cooperative and they have lost 2 family members as well They are getting a lot of heat for things that they couldn't control. I think that they made a mistake of not having treatment for Adam Lanza but they thought they were doing what is best. I just can't quite get over the fact of the children though. Those were 5-7 year old kids. They were so innocent. Think back to when you were about 6 and what you would have done. I have found this troubling. I couldn't imagine being that age and having a total of 26 people, including 20 friends, being murdered within about 100 feet of you. It is just heartbreaking.That is the word that I keep finding that describes the situation best.

Keep the whole town of Newtown Connecticut in your thoughts and prayers and keep up all the support.

[Buccaneer]

Hate all of it or some of it?? A great post, imo.