It's the 2011 NBA playoffs! Mavs Win!

[LloydLungs]

Chris Paul put up a 27-15-13 tonight against the Lakers. First triple-double EVER against the Lakers in their 712 lifetime playoff games, and he had it before the end of the third quarter.

Unlike the Hornets' game 1 upset, where a lot of their suspect supporting cast actually stepped up big (Willie Green, Aaron Gray, Jarrett Jack), this game was pretty much all CP3, even if Jack did get the last five points of the night. A masterful, gutty, incredible performance. Will be heartbreaking when he leaves. It's been a privilege to watch him in person the past few years.

Hornets won't actually win the series, but have officially made the Lakers work really hard for it. Glad they're making them expend energy in the first round.

[jbergey22]

Im wondering where this Chris Paul had been since January of this year. Up until these playoffs he probably had the worst 4 month stretch in his life.

[MrBug708]

I dont mind the Hornets winning some games, I have game 7 tickets for the first round and am pleasantly surprised that I might actually be able to go

[whomario]

Dwight Howard has 1 assist to 26 Turnovers for the series which has to be just as historic as his 33/18 average, the Hawks play him excellently by playing him 1:1 a lot and standing in the passing lanes when they do bring an aditional defender. As a result the Magic are also just 21-96 from 3 for the series. But hes also just not a good passer at all, that´s sth that will likely hold him back along with his FT shooting.
That´s not to say he deserves much of the blame really, his teammates are atrocious for the most part this series. Inexplicable that on the one night where Arenas shows up you then have Nelson and Turkoglu go 5-24 ...

Chris Paul was amazing yesterday, controlled everything offensively. The Hornets big men also were great battling the Laker bigs once more. Plus Trevor Ariza was semi-effective !

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont mind the Hornets winning some games, I have game 7 tickets for the first round and am pleasantly surprised that I might actually be able to go

I would start worrying about losing the series. Kobe dinged up not looking good.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by whomario

Dwight Howard has 1 assist to 26 Turnovers for the series which has to be just as historic as his 33/18 average

In all fairness... if you're Dwight Howard, on that team, who are YOU passing the rock to?

[whomario]

i see that and it´s clearly a combination of all 3 factors (bad teammates, great defense, lack of ability to pass out of the post) of which i would blame Howard the least. But that statline really shows how much the Series is going the way the Hawks want it to go. Let Howard score but annoy him with different matchups and make him work for everything, don´t let him off the hook by allowing him to involve and depend on his teammates.


Of course the Magic also simply shoot worse than normal, but they also don´t have the amount of wide open looks they normally have.

Even on offense the Hawks get what they want or rather get away with shooting and hitting ridiculous jumpers. They wouldn´t be winning this if they challenged Howard inside, thus they put all their eggs in the crazy-jumpshot basket.

Weird series altogether.

[Arles]

If you take out Howard, the Magic are shooting 32% as a team. If you look at just guards/SFs (likely kickout targets), they are below 30%. So, even if he makes 10 nice kickouts in a game, only 2 would likely go in. And, given the number of touches he's likely to have in a game, it's not crazy for him to have a really high TO/A number.

I'm just amazed at how terrible Orlando shoots the ball. Given the attention Howard gets, you'd think Hedo, Redick, J-Rich and others could shoot better than 25%.

[whomario]

Have you watched much of the series (not meant negatively, just curious) because imo when watching it than it makes sense, he actually doesn´t get all that much attention from the Hawks perimeter defenders in terms of double teams or sagging off their man.

Again, i´m not even blaming any of that on Howard but meant to have that number showcase what the Hawks do right. He is a poor passer, but that´s not the problem which is more that the other Magic fail to adjust to the Hawks defense.

The Hawks don´t pack it in, they simply defend him hard and ruthless with the main defender (Collins, Zaza, Armstrong) and only ever double if he makes a move (if at all) and unlike most teams in the regular season do don´t sag off the shooters "just in case".
Normally Howard is still a piss poor passer but the space he creates allows others to make easy plays by swinging the ball around.

The Magic shooters are just so used to having space to shoot that they are unable to adjust to having to move to get open.

[Arles]

The Magic have had a lot of open shots in this series and missed - esp Hedo and J-Rich. Plus, Howard is so much better than anyone defending him that he often gets a high percentage chance when he gets the ball deep.

I do agree that the Magic offense is pretty awful. I'm surprised they haven't done more PNRs with Hedo/Howard or Arenas/Howard, but the problem is that Orlando can't hit jumpers in this series.

[Young Drachma]

How 'bout those Grizzlies?

[Young Drachma]

Too bad the next round in the west won't be Seattle v. Vancouver. I guess at least they have MLS.

[Noop]

So Memphis is about to eliminate the Spurs? What are the chances of the Spurs deciding to go into full rebuild mode after this debacle.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Noop

So Memphis is about to eliminate the Spurs? What are the chances of the Spurs deciding to go into full rebuild mode after this debacle.

How can they? You are built around 2 older players. You aren't trading TD or Manu, so you just tweak and reload. We don't need to eliminate them yet though. The first two losses were close. They have two of the next three at home and the Grizz are a young team who have never been in this position before.

I honestly have no idea what Westbrook was doing this game for OKC. I think he and Perkins both felt the Nuggets would just tank and were stunned and pissed off they came out and played hard. But what the hell is he doing shooting the ball over 30 times? He flat out cost OKC the sweep with his selfish play. He was terrible defending Lawson and was beyond selfish on offense. Durant needs to sit him down and explain that if he scores 30 points on 20 shots, fine. But if it's going to take you 30 to get 30, he's hurting the team.

Another 13 missed FT for the Nuggets. There are going to be so many woulda, shoulda, coulda's after this series for them. If they make the right call in game one, if Afflalo is healthy for the entire series, if they hit even 4 more FT a game, if, if, if, if and it will be a loss. On the scoreboard this series is essentially over, but the Nuggets SHOULD at least be 2-2 now. (SHOULD meaning a few little things here or there)

The Thunder deserve to win and will win this series. And I'll be cheering for them the rest of the way. I just wish Westbrook weren't acting like such an ass in getting there.

[whomario]

nice bounce back win for the Mavs. No magic for Roy this time and Tyson Chandler decided to show up with 14/20 with 13 offensive boards.

Peja has just been solid, great pick up, happy for him that he gets to contribute again.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Noop

So Memphis is about to eliminate the Spurs? What are the chances of the Spurs deciding to go into full rebuild mode after this debacle.

I think they would be better off if they did. They looked old last night. Plus, outside of their big three, I don't think they are all that old, which is cause for concern.

What impressed me about the Grizzlies last night was the Spurs kept it close until the 3rd. Typically, the Griz will get out to a lead and let the more experienced team chip away at it, similar to games 1 and 3. Last night the Griz upped the defense and extended their lead.

[whomario]

some interesting (albeit in limited sample size) stats showing the impact Joel Anthony and Jason Collins have : StatsCube: The No-Stats Playoff MVPs « NBA.com | Hang Time Blog

In 72 minutes Collins played so far the Magic post an offensive rating of 76.5 for 66 Points per 48, while in 120 minutes he´s on the bench they post a 108 for 100 points per 48 (which is actually respectable), they get only 19 FTA (per 48 minutes, compared to 35 with him on the bench), 20 TOs instead of 10.

Howard scores only 17 per 36 (31 when Collins sits). All those numbers were similar in the regular season meetings while last year Collins never played and the Hawks got owned by the Magic (1-7, multiple blowouts)


Bill Simmons with a lengthy take on the Kings/Maloof situation : Bill Simmons: Breaking down the NBA's small-market woes with a little help from the Maloofs - ESPN

[Galaril]

Ok so two things I took from the Indy-bulls series

Noah is a punk ass and hope somebody shuts him up and the Bulls bench shooting three pointers in the last ten second sup 25 ...stay classy.

[Neuqua]

I admit I find it funny when a fan of a team with Rajon Rondo as their starting PG calls another player a punk ass.

Noah did exactly what he's on the floor to do. Rebound, block shots, and get in the heads of other players. This isn't something new, he's been doing this since college.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Ok so two things I took from the Indy-bulls series

Noah is a punk ass and hope somebody shuts him up and the Bulls bench shooting three pointers in the last ten second sup 25 ...stay classy.

I think you need to visit the MLB thread. These are professionals. Keep on playing man.

[MrBug708]

Wow Kobe

[Neon_Chaos]

Kobe is dialing back the clock. I haven't seen him throw down these many dunks in a long time.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Galaril

Ok so two things I took from the Indy-bulls series

Noah is a punk ass and hope somebody shuts him up and the Bulls bench shooting three pointers in the last ten second sup 25 ...stay classy.

Yes, the Bulls are the team that has had multiple flagrant fouls called on them and taken shots at players heads throughout the series.

Pacers played like bullies all series long. Fouled hard, took cheap shots. Finally someone stepped up and fought back and they ran crying to their Mom.

[MrBug708]

So it's ok to do the little things to get into the other teams head, except when it's against the Bulls?

Ok

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

So it's ok to do the little things to get into the other teams head, except when it's against the Bulls?

Ok

You have it backwards. I'm not the one complaining, just finding it funny that the Pacers of all teams are the ones upset about it. Their playoff strategy was to foul hard, take cheap shots, get in players heads. Their coach has even come out and said as much. Noah punked them and they cried.

Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

[SirFozzie]

The funny thing is that Neuq was badmouthing Rondo on twitter, and I told him that any team with Noah has no room to bitch about it. He was like "Noah's not a dirty player, I don't know anyone who considers him dirty.."

Then this happened.

And that's a sad sad way to go out by San Antonio. a Toe is on the line, a three pointer becomes a two, and the Spurs will lose by an inch.

EDIT: HOLY SHIT FUCK DAMN!

[stevew]

Memphis fail. Foul you fucking morons

[Noop]

So Miami puts away Philly with a strong performance from D.Wade and Mario Chalmers. I look forward to the Miami vs. Boston Series hopefully LeBron comes to play and doesn't quit on us.

[Noop]

This is what I had for San Antonio before they won by some miracle.

San Antonio has to go ahead and start their rebuilding project. They were the number 1 seed all year and only managed to win 1 game in the playoffs. I think its time for them to start the youth movement and hopefully get back in 3-4 years. As I see it the lottery (David Stern) has always been kind to them so it is likely they may win again.

Glad I didn't post that before the game was over.

[TroyF]

Durant with a sensational close to the game, but it was amazing how the Nuggets thoroughly outplayed them from the beginning to the end. 42-21 on FT. Durant and Westbrook combine for more FTA than the entire Nuggets roster, despite the fact Denver was attacking the basket all night long and those two were firing up jumper after jumper.

Pathetic.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Durant with a sensational close to the game, but it was amazing how the Nuggets thoroughly outplayed them from the beginning to the end. 42-21 on FT. Durant and Westbrook combine for more FTA than the entire Nuggets roster, despite the fact Denver was attacking the basket all night long and those two were firing up jumper after jumper.

Pathetic.

Just stop watching NBA basketball Troy. I don't know whether you're trolling now or still harping on the same point legitimately.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Just stop watching NBA basketball Troy. I don't know whether you're trolling now or still harping on the same point legitimately.

Think what you want to think. Seriously. You think I'm a troll, ignore the post. You have the option.

I say what I say based on what I watch. Somehow the three refs watching the game thought OKC deserved to go to the FT line 42 times tonight. I don't agree. At all. If you do agree, more power to you. (I'm sure the OKC fans will say I'm an idiot and I'm good with that)

[Cuckoo]

Nuggets played about the best game they could play, and OKC still won. Legitimately. Congrats to Denver on a great, hard-fought series. That's a team that never quit, despite plenty of reason to do so, and is very talented and deep.

Excited to see what the Thunder can do against the Spurs or Grizzlies.

[Arles]

I think the Thunder were better, but a 42-21 difference when the Nuggets had more paint scoring seems dubious. Same with Memphis' 21 to 9 fouls called discrepancy down the stretch in the SA game.

NBA referees play such a major role in deciding these games and that's what frustrates a lot of fans. In no other sport do referees consistently make the impact they do in the NBA. You can count on one hand the games a year seriously impacted by refs in football and few ever in the postseason. Outside of a couple questionable strike calls, same goes for baseball. In hockey, refs almost go out of their way to even power plays (esp in the playoffs).

Yet, just tonight, the three home teams (all very close games) combined to shoot 100 free throws and commit 49 fouls. The visiting teams combined to shoot 60 free throws and commit 75 fouls. And what's crazy is that the Heat were just +8 on free throws and -5 on fouls. SA+OKC were +32 on FTAs and -21 on fouls called against.

Just look at the Spurs series to see this. In 3 home games, SA is +38 for FTAs (one without Manu). In 2 road games, SA is -4 (both with Manu). I guess the Spurs just significantly go to the basket better when they're at home and forget how to do so on the road.

[whomario]

does anybody know of a site that does extended stats/boxscores for the playoffs ? I love hoopdata.com, but aparently they don´t do their work in the postseason.

One key for the Thunder also was their 16 offensive rebounds tonight (just 4 for the Nuggets), for the series also Durant´s ability to not turn the ball over. I was very surprised how seldomly the Nuggets try to trap him given that that has been one of his few weaknesses his first couple of years. He had just 7 TOs in 5 games.

Also, how about Ibaka struggling mightily on offense (1 point, 5 TOs) but blocking 9 shots ? So fun to watch him on defense.

[RainMaker]

I didn't watch the game, but I don't know how anyone can deny that there are major issues with officiating and preferential treatment. Lebron has now played 77 straight minutes without a defensive foul. Rather remarkable for the playoffs when you're one of the most aggressive perimeter defenders in the league. Doesn't quite compare to the 240 minute stretch he had a couple years ago.

The league average is 1 foul for 11 minutes.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by whomario

One key for the Thunder also was their 16 offensive rebounds tonight (just 4 for the Nuggets)

The Thunder shot 36% and made just 6/24 3s (compared to the Nuggets shooting 46% and 44% from 3). Pretty amazing that you hit the boards hard enough to get 16 off rebounds, miss that many shots and are playing catchup most of the night, yet you still get 45% fewer fouls called.

Here's the most amazing line of the night to me. K-Mart and Nene were constantly getting to the rim and shot 10-23 from the field. Yet, the 2 combined to get 3 total free throw attempts. Westbrook and Harden were jacking jumpers all game to the tone of 5-22 shooting. Yet, they combined to get 18 free throws.

I'm just glad I don't really root for a team in the NBA anymore. I enjoy the basketball and will casually watch the playoffs, but if I was vested in a team I'd go crazy given how slanted the officials can be (esp towards home teams and favorites). Imagine being a fan of the New Orleans Saints and you are going on the road to face the Bears in the wild card round. Going into the game, you pretty much know that you will have 10-15 more penalties called than the Bears, plus the opposing home crowd to deal with. Winning that game would be almost impossible. Yet, that's a normal occurrence in the NBA playoffs.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Arles

I think the Thunder were better, but a 42-21 difference when the Nuggets had more paint scoring seems dubious. Same with Memphis' 21 to 9 fouls called discrepancy down the stretch in the SA game.

NBA referees play such a major role in deciding these games and that's what frustrates a lot of fans. In no other sport do referees consistently make the impact they do in the NBA. You can count on one hand the games a year seriously impacted by refs in football and few ever in the postseason. Outside of a couple questionable strike calls, same goes for baseball. In hockey, refs almost go out of their way to even power plays (esp in the playoffs).

Yet, just tonight, the three home teams (all very close games) combined to shoot 100 free throws and commit 49 fouls. The visiting teams combined to shoot 60 free throws and commit 75 fouls. And what's crazy is that the Heat were just +8 on free throws and -5 on fouls. SA+OKC were +32 on FTAs and -21 on fouls called against.

Just look at the Spurs series to see this. In 3 home games, SA is +38 for FTAs (one without Manu). In 2 road games, SA is -4 (both with Manu). I guess the Spurs just significantly go to the basket better when they're at home and forget how to do so on the road.

There is a lot to this. I had drifted away from the NBA during the Jordan years for precisely this reason. Plus, the other gripe I have is that if a foul is called for X action two minutes into a game, it should be called with :30 seconds left in the game as well. This year, the officiating seemed better and I watched more NBA regular season ball than I had in years.

I watched the game Monday night between SA and Mem and was amazed at the officiating. It was a non-issue. Last night you wondered what was game they were officiating because it certainly wasn't the one I was watching. Both teams played hard and rough, yet Memphis got called for 12 more fouls down the stretch in a game they were leading at that point?

Heck, I'm a Laker fan and having the game tainted by the officials makes me sick. I was super fired up after Monday night, now I am not so sure. I can see the city getting fed up with the league after crap like this. We're not going to be one of the major markets, but we can certainly support the team. But Memphis is not a city to support a team they don't think can or will win something (that's why the support died for the later Pau led teams, everyone felt those teams had no heart outside of Battier).

[whomario]

as for the FT advantage for OKC, one should also point out that Ibaka alone had 9 blocks and the Thunder as a team had 14 and if you review them i think you´ll be hard stretched to find many that were debatable. A couple were on jump shots, but that´s still 9 or 10 attempts inside that you can take out of the equation. Just because a team goes inside it doesn´t mean they get fouled so or so often.

the one bad thing about the Grizz-Spurs ending was that this Ginobili shot wasn´t a 3 and sent it into overtime. What a ridiculous shot, holy shit ...

Joel Anthony finishes the series with a +72 in plus/minus in a series with 4 tight games.

[Cuckoo]

Originally Posted by whomario

as for the FT advantage for OKC, one should also point out that Ibaka alone had 9 blocks and the Thunder as a team had 14 and if you review them i think you´ll be hard stretched to find many that were debatable. A couple were on jump shots, but that´s still 9 or 10 attempts inside that you can take out of the equation. Just because a team goes inside it doesn´t mean they get fouled so or so often.

Agreed. Look, I don't disagree with most of the above comments about NBA officiating, but last night's Thunder game, or even the series, is not a good example.

If I remember correctly, last night was the first time that OKC had an advantage in fouls called this series. Denver has had the advantage in every other game. And though the Thunder shot a ton more free throws, the foul advantage was something like 25-19, not all that crazy. Goal tending in game 1? Terrible call. Not calling Nene for a foul in game 4 when he throws Perkins down? Bad call, based on reputation. But I'd be surprised if someone can come up with many examples of fouls that should have been on OKC last night.

[whomario]

also, Zach Randolph was brilliant again yesterday, what a career-turnaround he´s had theese last 2 seasons.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by whomario

also, Zach Randolph was brilliant again yesterday, what a career-turnaround he´s had theese last 2 seasons.

Not you, too. If the announcers in NBA 2k11 tell me this one more time, I'm going to strangle something...

(I'm a SG drafted by the Grizzlies, and at least once a game I get to hear about the fights he got into in Portland and how he's really shaped up since heading to Memphis...)

[whomario]

I´ll try my best not to go there again

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Not you, too. If the announcers in NBA 2k11 tell me this one more time, I'm going to strangle something...

(I'm a SG drafted by the Grizzlies, and at least once a game I get to hear about the fights he got into in Portland and how he's really shaped up since heading to Memphis...)

I'm playing as the Grizzlies in association mode, and I know exactly what you mean. Gets tiring hearing Clark Kellogg say that Zach Randolph has "kept his name out of the papers for the wrong reasons." Fortunately (I guess), Randolph broke his wrist in my game and has missed several games. Unfortunately, Rudy Gay and Marc Gasol did the same thing, so my entire frontcourt is shot. At least I don't have to listen to the announcers talk every game about Marc Gasol getting traded for his brother.

Not to get too off the thread topic, but I do wish they had something in NBA 2K11 to keep us from hearing those comments every single game. I could live with hearing them once every three or four games, but not every game. Oh well.

Pretend I said something about free throws here, so I'm on topic about something.

[RainMaker]

You guys should try playing My Player with Memphis. Not only do you get the same things, but you get to watch O.J. Mayo take 30 shitty shots a game and refuse to ever pass the ball.

[Groundhog]

Yup, I was drafted by the Grizzlies too, and it was the O.J. Mayo show, and Randolph never passes the ball once he gets it either.

I think the best solution would be that for the team you are controlling, you don't hear the colour commentary about your guys at all during the season, if they can't limit it to every few games. I don't mind hearing it about the teams I play, but not my frigging players every game.

Whoops, forgot this wasn't the NBA 2K11 thread...

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

The funny thing is that Neuq was badmouthing Rondo on twitter, and I told him that any team with Noah has no room to bitch about it. He was like "Noah's not a dirty player, I don't know anyone who considers him dirty.."

Then this happened.

What happened? Nothing Noah did was unique. Watch Kedrick Perkins on any given night. Joel Anthony was throwing elbows everytime a shot went up.

Those weren't dirty plays, they were just how big men play the game now. The only difference is, well, Noah is annoying about it. He mouths off and gets in other people's heads. Rodmanesque.

[Big Fo]

What an embarrassment.

[Groundhog]

Should be an interesting (and probably extended...) summer for Orlando and Dwight Howard.

[Big Fo]

Maybe the owners will try to force some kind of franchise player rule on the union.