Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over)

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I would never make this play as a wolf, the tombstone game already illustrated why it would not work

You'll understand if I don't take your word on that.

And last game was really not a good case to make for metagaming concerns. It was hard to be over the radar with all the nonsense flying around. And if he was UTR as a wolf then being a judge should theoretically reduce his effectiveness as a wolf -- if we're always forcing him to be on his toes, then he should be out of his comfort zone in comparison to previous wolf examples.

[Barkeep49]

I'll tell you now that I'm voting for Anxiety. If Blade is a villager I don't trust him in any role where he can act unilaterally. And if he's a mobster than I shouldn't trust him.

[Tyrith]

I will also be voting for Anxiety, barring any weird circumstances.

[hoopsguy]

There has been a lot of talk from Blade6119 about someone being able to back his version of events. And while that is all well and good, I'm not sure what that would prove at this stage of the game. All it would do is establish linkage between players - not that someone is good or bad.

Unless I'm missing a detail here and there ... might be some kind of fuzzy logic that is escaping me.

While relationships are a good way of looking at people, it is a long way from an honest-to-goodness definitive statement of integrity for either party. And it builds a greater risk for the parties involved when the relationship is as public as the one would be for someone to back Blade on this here point.

So - if someone feels like they can clear Blade6119 right here and now, I guess I'm willing to listen. But I would consider it mighty suspect at this point in time. More risk than reward for both of them, as far as I can tell, if they ain't the actual Mafia trying to pull wool over eyes.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

I'll tell you now that I'm voting for Anxiety. If Blade is a villager I don't trust him in any role where he can act unilaterally. And if he's a mobster than I shouldn't trust him.

Its always nice to know how people really feel about you...im glad i now understand where we stand

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Its always nice to know how people really feel about you...im glad i now understand where we stand

You love your rep

And hey at least I didn't suggest you like sodomy as others have about boht of us.

[Lathum]

I don't understand where the love for anxiety comes from but I hope he has enough money to hire protection because if he is voted judge he will likely be an early target

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

You love your rep

And hey at least I didn't suggest you like sodomy as others have about boht of us.

I must have sat that game out

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't understand where the love for anxiety comes from but I hope he has enough money to hire protection because if he is voted judge he will likely be an early target

I have to think that all of those willing to volunteer know that they have a big target on their backs.

I think Anxiety is a good choice. He is also a good choice to be protected tonight, if anyone is capable.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't understand where the love for anxiety comes from but I hope he has enough money to hire protection because if he is voted judge he will likely be an early target

I don't think anyone loves Anxiety. Everyone just feels the hate for me and Blade.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

There has been a lot of talk from Blade6119 about someone being able to back his version of events. And while that is all well and good, I'm not sure what that would prove at this stage of the game. All it would do is establish linkage between players - not that someone is good or bad.

Unless I'm missing a detail here and there ... might be some kind of fuzzy logic that is escaping me.

While relationships are a good way of looking at people, it is a long way from an honest-to-goodness definitive statement of integrity for either party. And it builds a greater risk for the parties involved when the relationship is as public as the one would be for someone to back Blade on this here point.

So - if someone feels like they can clear Blade6119 right here and now, I guess I'm willing to listen. But I would consider it mighty suspect at this point in time. More risk than reward for both of them, as far as I can tell, if they ain't the actual Mafia trying to pull wool over eyes.

I see...someone who can be cleared, on whatever level, is not to be as trusted as someone who can be in no way cleared. Hoopsguy, is that what your claiming?

[Tyrith]

My main deal with Anxiety is that he's stable and he's shown he's willing to listen to reason, and while he's a good player he's not the ultra upper crest of wolves that have proven their mastermind skills so far. We have to elect SOMEONE, and those are the qualities I'd like to have.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

If you want to be grabbing your ankles asking for another, vote Barkeep or Blade.

Lathum this is what I was talking about.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

You love your rep

No, thats where your mistaken...what i love/loved is not my rep...what i loved was what i believed to be mutual respect with a few players i enjoy playing with.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I see...someone who can be cleared, on whatever level, is not to be as trusted as someone who can be in no way cleared. Hoopsguy, is that what your claiming?

No, I think he's saying that a guy that can be "cleared" as this stage is to be equally trusted as an uncleared person, because of the capacity for deception. And you knew that, too :P

[Lathum]

oh, I guess I am in that game then

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

No, I think he's saying that a guy that can be "cleared" as this stage is to be equally trusted as an uncleared person, because of the capacity for deception. And you knew that, too :P

No, i really didnt...im just feeling out everyone...there seems to be a small circles forming...the same way many of you have no idea how i can seem to have a trusted player, i cant understand hoops' distrust of barkeep and i over anxiety or the fact everyone glossed over LSG wanting to be judge when they had the discussions. Its little things like that, those small details, that im trying to understand.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

No, thats where your mistaken...what i love/loved is not my rep...what i loved was what i believed to be mutual respect with a few players i enjoy playing with.

Blade: No offense was meant at that remark. When you have a duke role you like to go for the big bold play. I'd rather not have that in the judge.

[Tyrith]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

No, i really didnt...im just feeling out everyone...there seems to be a small circles forming...the same way many of you have no idea how i can seem to have a trusted player, i cant understand hoops' distrust of barkeep and i over anxiety or the fact everyone glossed over LSG wanting to be judge when they had the discussions. Its little things like that, those small details, that im trying to understand.

It's not that I don't trust either of you less than him, but his characteristics makes me want to have in the office more than you. Right now I am compeltely even on my trust level for everyone, in terms on if I know they're a wolf or not.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Blade: No offense was meant at that remark. When you have a duke role you like to go for the big bold play. I'd rather not have that in the judge.

Originally Posted by Tyrith

It's not that I don't trust either of you less than him, but his characteristics makes me want to have in the office more than you. Right now I am compeltely even on my trust level for everyone, in terms on if I know they're a wolf or not.

Then i will never agree with you guys..you are picking the judge based on who the player is, im trying to pick a judge we can trust more then others. Difference in theology, one that likely wont be changing.

Anxiety is a nice, calm guy...but no matter what he does, i cant trust him so i see his value as a judge diminished. Thats my viewpoint, and you dont share it. So ill place my vote and drop out of this argument.

[path12]

I still haven't seen this verification Blade keeps talking about. I'd consider him with that, but without it no way.

If we're talking about people who are proven to be decent decision makers, I'd agree with Anxiety, but I'd also toss out JE, Lathum and Swaggs as also being that sort of group.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

I still haven't seen this verification Blade keeps talking about. I'd consider him with that, but without it no way.

If we're talking about people who are proven to be decent decision makers, I'd agree with Anxiety, but I'd also toss out JE, Lathum and Swaggs as also being that sort of group.

Hoops and tyrith, two people im not exactly all trusting of right now, have both said revealing would be useless and they would treat me just as if i didnt reveal. Its interesting, but since i have no support whatsoever(publically at least), im not going to press anything for now

[Tyrith]

I thought about JE for sure. Swaggs doesn't seem to be quite as active as some of them other players mentioned, meaning I don't think I'd prefer him in this role. Lathum, well, Lathum scares me :P

[Barkeep49]

Blade: There's been no verification at this point. Of course I'm willing to change my opinion and vote's not been cast. But while you (and LSG as you point) have hinted that you can be cleared neither of you have been. I'm actually inclined to believe that you are a good guy, but not so much so that I'm willing to change directions at this point though there's still a fair amount of time before the votes are due.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

Lathum, well, Lathum scares me :P

BOO

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Blade: There's been no verification at this point. Of course I'm willing to change my opinion and vote's not been cast. But while you (and LSG as you point) have hinted that you can be cleared neither of you have been. I'm actually inclined to believe that you are a good guy, but not so much so that I'm willing to change directions at this point though there's still a fair amount of time before the votes are due.

It wont harm him at all, so ill go ahead and say that DT is the person who can corroborate i targeted him with my action today and i did him no harm. I did not take anything of his, did not attack him, and cant clear him really. I learned one thing about him, which ill hold onto for now, and he knows what i was doing in regards to him. I dont think he can say im good, like i cant of him, but he can confirm i meant him no harm, i did do what i claimed to do, and was interested in something besides himself.

My hope is he believes this role is a villager role, and my early use of it will lead him to trust me. I cant clear him, and what i learned about him is somewhat useless to me at the current time. I hope that changes, but i think today was pretty bad for me. I dont expect to have many successes really, as i know my limit.

[path12]

Judge is going to be a pretty thankless job anyway. I remember being Pharaoh......people are gonna bitch no matter what you do.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

Judge is going to be a pretty thankless job anyway. I remember being Pharaoh......people are gonna bitch no matter what you do.

oh great. Blade is in a bad mood and you're gonna go and bring up that game.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Lathum

oh great. Blade is in a bad mood and you're gonna go and bring up that game.

BLOOD FOE@!!!!!!!

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by path12

Judge is going to be a pretty thankless job anyway. I remember being Pharaoh......people are gonna bitch no matter what you do.

Agreed.

As soon as a judge makes a bad decision, he is going to big subjected to a lot of accusations and will probably be a lynch target. And, if he does a good job, the mafia will want to knock him out.

I am at a bit of a loss as to why Blade would want a role like this, since he seemingly has another type of role already.

[Blade6119]

I expect to be dead quite soon anyways...my role is one that will look awfully like a seer to anyone i target. Its simply a matter of time before i hit a wolf and they worry about what my role is. Since i expect to die soon anyways, the threat of death from either side by being judge doesnt bother me.

[hoopsguy]

Blade6119, let's make sure we are talking the same language here. Someone clearing you at this point in the game seems a bit unlikely to me without you holding certain special privleges that I don't expect folks would be talking about right here and now. That is why I consider the clearing aspects of your story to be on the dubious side at the moment.

Now, as you have gone forward and named DaddyTorgo to be the "clearer" I will certainly be fair minded towards him and hear what he has to say for himself and about you.

[hoopsguy]

Have a general question for the folks of this fair city - is there any reason to suspect that someone in our company may not have one of the listed professions?

I seem to have a distant memory of being accused of representing myself in a false light in times past, and I would hate to be guilty of casting similar aspersions towards others in the here and now if they would like to comment on this matter sooner rather than later.

[Tyrith]

The role post says there might be roles in the game not on the list. I have no reason to suspect this isn't true.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Blade6119, let's make sure we are talking the same language here. Someone clearing you at this point in the game seems a bit unlikely to me without you holding certain special privleges that I don't expect folks would be talking about right here and now. That is why I consider the clearing aspects of your story to be on the dubious side at the moment.

Now, as you have gone forward and named DaddyTorgo to be the "clearer" I will certainly be fair minded towards him and hear what he has to say for himself and about you.

Im currently working under the assumption, which may be right or wrong, that the mafia arent starting out with professions(besides the mafia boss). I could be wrong, but i dont think the role i possess would be one the mafia would hold based on how alan described them. Maybe they do have professions, but im working under the profession they dont have any yet and will gain them through the underground.

Remember, we have good, evil, and nuetral players...there are people out there who dont care who wins, just that their individual conditions are met. Thats why even more so then usual im watching everyone...even if they may not be a wolf, they may not want a villager victory.

So me using my profession, one that did no harm to DT and he should be able to confirm that, to me would help him clear me. I might be wrong, as i will no doubt find out when he replies.

I will be dead soon, since this is a daily power....it presents no threat to the wolves that i can tell, but i dont expect them to take any chances with believing me

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Tyrith

The role post says there might be roles in the game not on the list. I have no reason to suspect this isn't true.

I have 100% reason to suspect roles not listed are in the game

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

It wont harm him at all, so ill go ahead and say that DT is the person who can corroborate i targeted him with my action today and i did him no harm. I did not take anything of his, did not attack him, and cant clear him really. I learned one thing about him, which ill hold onto for now, and he knows what i was doing in regards to him. I dont think he can say im good, like i cant of him, but he can confirm i meant him no harm, i did do what i claimed to do, and was interested in something besides himself.

My hope is he believes this role is a villager role, and my early use of it will lead him to trust me. I cant clear him, and what i learned about him is somewhat useless to me at the current time. I hope that changes, but i think today was pretty bad for me. I dont expect to have many successes really, as i know my limit.

I'll be upfront and say that you're confusing the hell out of me. First you say that someone can clear you, but now you're saying that they can't? You can't clear him and he can't clear you?

[Swaggs]

I would be surprised if he had put that disclaimer in without adding a non-described role.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Alan, i ask again: Is there any way to earn money outside of what your role PM told you?

Yes, there are other ways money might enter the game.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I'll be upfront and say that you're confusing the hell out of me. First you say that someone can clear you, but now you're saying that they can't? You can't clear him and he can't clear you?

Ive said he can clear me, which i believe he can. Its up to him how he interprets my visit. Knowing what i know, if i were him it would clear me...but i dont know what alan chose to tell him..i just know hes aware of what i did with him. How he chooses to interpret whatever he was told could have him coming out clearing me, damning me, or nothing at all. He was around after i made my early claims, and made no reference to them negatively so id imagine even if he cant clear me i earned some measure of trust with him.

Basically, im saying i believe he can clear me, and if he cant its still more proof im good then ive seen anyone else present(unless he chooses to say im evil and am lying, which is possible i suppose)

[Swaggs]

Well, I'd like to know if anyone else wants to share who they will be voting for as judge tomorrow.

I think I'll vote for Anxiety.

I think it would be a good idea to get a decent headcount, so we don't get surprised by the anonymous vote.

[hoopsguy]

Going back to Lonestargirl, as I missed her judge claim earlier when I mentioned people putting their hat in the ring.

I remain suspicious of people who would claim that they can clear themselves on Day 1. Blade6119's explanation is that he demonstrated a role on DaddyTorgo - since it was not malicious then he must be pro-city. This in no way, shape, or form relates to Lonestargirl, so any presumed linkage between those two is off the table.

I didn't push Blade6119 to publish his information earlier - in fact, I said that I would view it with suspicion. And I'm not pushing Lonestargirl to reveal her information now; not that I would necessarily believe it anyways ...

Blade6119, do you think there is a chance that Lonestargirl has the same role/profession as you in this game? Based on your comments up to this point, it sounds like your role may be unique. Which I would expect to put you on edge. Am I making bad assumptions here in regards to your role and feelings on Lonestargirl, who you seem to have publicly trusted for most of the day?

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Have a general question for the folks of this fair city - is there any reason to suspect that someone in our company may not have one of the listed professions?

I seem to have a distant memory of being accused of representing myself in a false light in times past, and I would hate to be guilty of casting similar aspersions towards others in the here and now if they would like to comment on this matter sooner rather than later.

Are you asking if any of the listed roles might not be in the game? I assume that they are plus some that aren't listed.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Ive said he can clear me, which i believe he can. Its up to him how he interprets my visit. Knowing what i know, if i were him it would clear me...but i dont know what alan chose to tell him..i just know hes aware of what i did with him. How he chooses to interpret whatever he was told could have him coming out clearing me, damning me, or nothing at all. He was around after i made my early claims, and made no reference to them negatively so id imagine even if he cant clear me i earned some measure of trust with him.

Basically, im saying i believe he can clear me, and if he cant its still more proof im good then ive seen anyone else present(unless he chooses to say im evil and am lying, which is possible i suppose)

If you can do something useful, what was the motivation of outing yourself on day one? I generally don't think you are a wolf, as I don't think a wolf would want to be the first to nominate themselves for judge (although it would be an interesting play for an experienced wolf), but I don't see any benefit to your action today. If you have a useful ability, I don't see why you would telegraph it so soon. If you thought it would clear you, I think it is early but could understand, but you are saying that DT can't really clear you, but he should because it makes sense for him to clear you based on your action.

Also, I respect your "I'll be dead soon..." attitude, but anyone that doesn't feel that way is probably a wolf that knows that he has the (wolf) numbers to survive a vote for a few days, so there is little use using that as a justification on day 1. Everyone feels like they could die soon.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Going back to Lonestargirl, as I missed her judge claim earlier when I mentioned people putting their hat in the ring.

I remain suspicious of people who would claim that they can clear themselves on Day 1. Blade6119's explanation is that he demonstrated a role on DaddyTorgo - since it was not malicious then he must be pro-city. This in no way, shape, or form relates to Lonestargirl, so any presumed linkage between those two is off the table.

I didn't push Blade6119 to publish his information earlier - in fact, I said that I would view it with suspicion. And I'm not pushing Lonestargirl to reveal her information now; not that I would necessarily believe it anyways ...

Blade6119, do you think there is a chance that Lonestargirl has the same role/profession as you in this game? Based on your comments up to this point, it sounds like your role may be unique. Which I would expect to put you on edge. Am I making bad assumptions here in regards to your role and feelings on Lonestargirl, who you seem to have publicly trusted for most of the day?

I was of the opinion my role was unique, mostly due to alan saying i was "the blank," not "a blank."

I did get the impression that what my role's personal victory condition is in regards to may not be unique.

I am well aware my team victory condition is not unique.

So no, i dont believe we have the same role...i dont trust her, not at all. I tend to trust DT and thats it, besides myself.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If you can do something useful, what was the motivation of outing yourself on day one? I generally don't think you are a wolf, as I don't think a wolf would want to be the first to nominate themselves for judge (although it would be an interesting play for an experienced wolf), but I don't see any benefit to your action today. If you have a useful ability, I don't see why you would telegraph it so soon. If you thought it would clear you, I think it is early but could understand, but you are saying that DT can't really clear you, but he should because it makes sense for him to clear you based on your action.

Also, I respect your "I'll be dead soon..." attitude, but anyone that doesn't feel that way is probably a wolf that knows that he has the (wolf) numbers to survive a vote for a few days, so there is little use using that as a justification on day 1. Everyone feels like they could die soon.

My role is of no use to anyone but myself and my personal victory conditions from what i understand of it. Or at least it was designed to be...ive taken the side feature, that of the person knowing what i did with them, and have tried to find any way to build a COT.

I am not important swaggs, and if they target me then it is a victory for the villagers in the sense good roles will live on. My role is of no threat to the wolves, so me telegraphing my role has both created doubt for the wolves and given you villagers information. I have no illusion that my role is important enough to try and keep secret. If anything, im worried how people react when i show up and deal with them in coming days if i didnt reveal this now

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Ive said he can clear me, which i believe he can.

That's not what you said.

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I dont think he can say im good, like i cant of him, but he can confirm i meant him no harm, i did do what i claimed to do, and was interested in something besides himself.

You can't clear him and he can't clear you. He can confirm that you didn't attack him, but that's all. That doesn't clear you as a good guy.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

That's not what you said.



You can't clear him and he can't clear you. He can confirm that you didn't attack him, but that's all. That doesn't clear you as a good guy.

If i was evil, my action(specifically what i was after) would have ended very differently. I cant clear him, i just learned about what he had in the area i was looking at...if he sees things the way i do, he can clear me. If he doesnt, he cant.

What i was after was something a bad guy would react differently to, and we shall see how alan conveyed that message to DT

[hoopsguy]

Blade6119 Post #182, 9:02PM CST:

id vote either LSG or i judge because we can prove our goodness(well, someone else can corroborate my story at least).

Blade6119 Post #245 10:54PM CST:

So no, i dont believe we [Blade6119 and Lonestargirl] have the same role...i dont trust her, not at all. I tend to trust DT and thats it, besides myself.

OK, so here is what I'm trying to put together. Two hours earlier LSG is the other one you would vote Sheriff because she stated that she could "prove her goodness". However, you also believe that your role is unique and now do not trust her.

So, were you lying then (you would vote for her as judge) or are you lying now (you don't trust her)? Because I am pretty sure that I won't be voting for someone I don't trust and least a little more than the average bear.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

If i was evil, my action(specifically what i was after) would have ended very differently. I cant clear him, i just learned about what he had in the area i was looking at...if he sees things the way i do, he can clear me. If he doesnt, he cant.

What i was after was something a bad guy would react differently to, and we shall see how alan conveyed that message to DT

Here's the problem I have with all of this. You claimed that someone could clear you, and you made it sound like there was no doubt about it. But now you're saying you don't know what DT was told or how he'll interpret what happened. To me, those two statements are worlds apart, and it causes me to question everything you've said.