MLB 2021 Season Thread

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Vince, Pt. II

So does Bumgarner's no hitter count?

When the official MLB account tweeted it out, it called it an unofficial no hitter.

On the one hand, 7 inning no hitters have never counted.

On the other hand, pitching a no hitter for the designated full length of the game has always counted.

IMO, I am in the latter camp. If the game is not artificially shortened by weather, darkness, etc., then you have pitched a "full" game, and you should get official credit.

I do not, however, think that is the official MLB stance.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

On the other hand, pitching a no hitter for the designated full length of the game has always counted.

.

That's not actually true. It was prior but MLB changed the definition back in 1991 that it had to be at least a 9 inning game and the expunged anything shorter from the books. ( ie. See Melido Perez).

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, an official game of any length is a full game. This is just MLB being stupid for the "back in my day" crowd (which, TBF, is 75% or more of their audience).

Is he credited with a CG? Did he give up no hits? Then it's a no-hitter.

[PilotMan]

Did he get 27 outs? It minimizes the accomplishments of guys who did. I don't care at all about a 7 inning no-no. How many guys went into the 9th and lost it? None of those counted.

[Ksyrup]

That's because they didn't finish the game with a no-hitter.

[Ksyrup]

Rain-shortened no-hitters should count, too.

We don't give teams 5/9ths of a win in those situations, do we? Even though it minimizes the accomplishments of teams who win 9 inning games.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, an official game of any length is a full game. This is just MLB being stupid for the "back in my day" crowd (which, TBF, is 75% or more of their audience).

Don't blame us. A lot of us feel like he got jobbed too.

Under the current "leadership" MLB doesn't require any help to be stupid, they're more than capable of doing that on their own.

[cuervo72]

Howabout we just play 9 inning games?

[Ksyrup]

Baseball people love to talk about asterisks. Here's a perfect opportunity to use it. It's still a no-hitter, but the asterisks denotes that it was less than a 9 inning no-hitter. Problem solved.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Howabout we just play 9 inning games?

so crazy it just might work, etc.

[Lathum]

MadBum is such a dickbag I'm glad he doesn't get credit for it.

[Ksyrup]

I'm a traditionalist in the sense that I would prefer late 70s/early 80s style baseball - starting pitchers completed games, more action, more SBs, less emphasis on HRs and Ks. But the game is hard to watch right now. They've created a monster and are looking for the easiest way to "fix it" to try to appeal to a younger audience. Things like the length of games is much easier to control than making all sorts of mechanical changes to the game to force a certain quicker style of play with more action.

I don't necessarily want 7 inning games, but I understand it, because the game kinda sucks to watch right now.

[Ksyrup]

College baseball is the worst. When we show up for my daughter's college softball games, the guys are warming up. We play 2 7 inning games, and as we're leaving the guys are like in the 8th inning of game 1 of a DH. It's insane. I could not fathom an 8-10 hour day of watching college baseball.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I'm a traditionalist in the sense that I would prefer late 70s/early 80s style baseball - starting pitchers completed games, more action, more SBs, less emphasis on HRs and Ks. But the game is hard to watch right now. They've created a monster and are looking for the easiest way to "fix it" to try to appeal to a younger audience. Things like the length of games is much easier to control than making all sorts of mechanical changes to the game to force a certain quicker style of play with more action.

I think that sports was more fun when we knew less. Back in the 70s/80s, we could argue about the best way to build a baseball, basketball, football, etc. team. Which led to contrasting styles, which (IMO) is more entertaining to watch.

But analytics has "proven" that HRs and Ks are the way to go. That 3pt shots are overpowered. That star running backs are overrated. Etc.

Which has led to games (IMO) getting a bit more boring because most teams all play the same way.

Not sure how to fix that, though.

[Ksyrup]

That's exactly right. And that's why they are looking at easier alternative ways to make the games more palatable. Hence, if games are going to be long and boring, the quickest fix is to shorten them a bit.

[cuervo72]

Deaden the ball. But oh right, chicks dig the long ball.

[Ksyrup]

I'm curious what the outcome of the mound change in the 2nd half of the Atlantic League is going to be. If the result is just going to be increasing DO/HR output and decreasing strikeouts, then I'm not sure that's the answer. But at least they are looking at other things.

[Ksyrup]

The argument against 7 inning no-hitters fails completely when you recognize that MLB does not consider 9 inning no-hitters to be no-hitters if the game goes into extra innings. Why? Because the game is not complete. If 9 innings is what matters, then Rich Hill had a no-hitter. If completing the game as a no-hitter matters, then a 5 inning or 7 inning no-hitter counts. You can't have it both ways - as the rules are currently set up.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Yeah, I think I'm in the "it counts" camp, but I actually enjoy the asterisk idea. Which, well, is semi-comical given my stance on Barry Bonds.

[PilotMan]

I don't really care about 5 or 7 inning no hitters. Whether it's a completed game or not. It should be 27 outs at least, a game 9 innings, minimum. A guy who gets 26 outs did better than a goy who got 21. The analytics bear out that it's a better game score. I can't accept the cheaper version as legit.

[Ksyrup]

You can still think about one is being better than another. This isn't a thought control experiment!

Even in 9 inning no-hitters, they are not all the same except for the number of hits allowed. It's just a fact that if someone completes a game with no hits allowed, it's a no-hitter. It doesn't make it any more equal to a 9 inning no-hitter than a 9 walk no-hitter to a no walk no-hitter.

[Ghost Econ]

I'm just waiting for the first double header perfect game that goes to the 9th 0-0 and the runner on 2nd scores, but the guy keeps the perfect game, but his team never scores.

[cartman]

I didn't get any kind of special memento for being at Yu Darvish's 8 2/3 inning perfect game against Houston

[Lathum]

The Bryce Harper HBP was horrifying. Then the next batter gets hit also and the shit hits the fan. The pitcher was clearly rattled.

The interesting thing is the St. Louis manager said he would have taken the pitcher out after he hit Harper, but the three batter rule prevented him from doing so. Something needs to be done about that.

[Lathum]

Some of the stats on DeGrom and the Mets ineptitude to score are amazing.

Since the beginning of 2018 he has a 1.99 ERA and the Mets are under 5 games under .500 in those starts. He has given un 2 ER this year and the Mets have a losing record in his starts.

21 starts in his career going 6 innings and 1 run or less and didn't win.

Yes, wins for a pitcher don't matter, but cmon.

[Lathum]

Pujols being released today

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pujols being released today

Sometimes stars just burn themselves out. He was such a beast in St. Louis.

[cartman]

The yin and yang of baseball. The Angels got Trout in the draft, but dropped nearly $400 million on Pujols and Josh Hamilton in FA.

[Swaggs]

It is always hard for me to believe that he played for the Angels almost as many seasons as he did for the Cardinals. 11 for the Cards and 10 for the Angels.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Some of the stats on DeGrom and the Mets ineptitude to score are amazing.

Since the beginning of 2018 he has a 1.99 ERA and the Mets are under 5 games under .500 in those starts. He has given un 2 ER this year and the Mets have a losing record in his starts.

21 starts in his career going 6 innings and 1 run or less and didn't win.

Yes, wins for a pitcher don't matter, but cmon.

He should try pitching to the score like Jack Morris.

[Ghost Econ]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pujols being released today

Chris Davis and Miggy are slowly looking over their backs.

My batting average is only .061 worse than Cabrera's right now.

[tarcone]

Bring Albert home! Now I kind of wish the NL had the DH.

[jbergey22]

I wish Pujols would have retired 5 years ago. It was awful to watch him become such a poor player late in his career where he was actually below replacement level. AND keeping Trout out of the playoffs.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Pujols being released today

As a Cardinals fan, I'm of two minds about this:

1-I remember being pissed when the Cards didn't keep him and somewhat pissed at Pujols for leaving. So there's a part of me that's glad the Angels never won a playoff game with him on the team.

2-Recognization of how great a player he was for baseball, and glad we got him for so long in St. Louis. I hope he now retires/enters the Hall of Fame as a Cardinal.

2 wins out most of the time

[Swaggs]

Really, everything worked out really well for all parties but the Angels.

The Cardinals got 11 unprecedented years out of Pujols, including World Series wins, but were smart and didn’t use the past for future expected performance and didn’t really look bad not signing him because the offer was so obscene.

Pujols had a HoF career before he even left for Anaheim. He won rings, became an icon, got paid and didn’t look bad for leaving to get paid - he’d checked just about every box you can I imagine.

The Angels did what poorly run teams do, by basing that contract on the past rather than what one would reasonably expect over the next ten years. As mentioned above, Cabrera and Davis as other 1B/DH types are pretty similar in that regard. If OTTP has taught me anything (besides that my “look too good to be true” pitchers will invariably have multiple season ending injuries), it is to not trust hitters past the age of 31-32ish. There are exceptions, but more times than not, they become albatrosses.

[Toddzilla]

A few notes about Albert Pujols:

1. Over the last 6 years of his career he's been paid $165,000,000 and contributed a total of -0.5 WAR

2. Of his 21 seasons in the majors, his 10 worst seasons are all since joining the Angels. That is to say his worst year ever in St. Louis was still better than his best year ever in Los Angeles.

3. On 2 occasions (at least, maybe 3) Pujols was measurably the worst regular player in all of Major League Baseball.

[Toddzilla]

and I wonder how much of that decline is age (there was always the rumor that Pujols was 3-5 years older than advertised), how much was due to the move to Los Angeles, and how much was pressure from the mega-contract.

I'd be willing to bet he'd have had 2 or 3 more great seasons had he stayed in St. Louis, which puts him in the Mt. Rushmore of hitters conversation.

[tarcone]

I do not begrudge Pujols for leaving or the Cards for not re-signbing him. The Cards are penny pinchers and letting Pujols go allowed them to keep and get other players.

Pujols is probably 52 right now, who knows? He would have sunk the Cardinals worse than the Angels because the Cards wouldnt have been able to re-sign Wainwright or Yadi, for example.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

and I wonder how much of that decline is age (there was always the rumor that Pujols was 3-5 years older than advertised), how much was due to the move to Los Angeles, and how much was pressure from the mega-contract.

I'd be willing to bet he'd have had 2 or 3 more great seasons had he stayed in St. Louis, which puts him in the Mt. Rushmore of hitters conversation.

I dont think it was anything other than age and injuries for Pujols. Pressure never seemed to bother him a bit in the playoffs with the Cardinals. Reports are that Pujols is one(if not the most) of the most professional personalities in baseball and just loves the game so I doubt a move to another franchise would have caused that type of decline either.

He was on the decline his last couple of seasons with the Cardinals and I believe they recognized it by not making a huge effort to re-sign the best hitter in their franchises history.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by tarcone

I do not begrudge Pujols for leaving or the Cards for not re-signbing him. The Cards are penny pinchers and letting Pujols go allowed them to keep and get other players.

Pujols is probably 52 right now, who knows? He would have sunk the Cardinals worse than the Angels because the Cards wouldnt have been able to re-sign Wainwright or Yadi, for example.

Are they penny pinchers or a financially responsible organization that knows how to win? They dont seem to be setting money aside while losing a bunch of games. They are one of the most consistent winners in baseball.

[JPhillips]

Yasmani Grandal has 7 hits and 26 walks so far this season.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Yasmani Grandal has 7 hits and 26 walks so far this season.

He is an interesting player. Touted as one of the 2 or 3 best catchers in baseball despite a few liabilities. Your new school 3 outcome player.

[cuervo72]

I must have been away too long...there are MID-INNING commercials now?

[JPhillips]

Hard not to stand up and salute, Dick Mountain.

[Bobble]

No-hitter by Detroit Tiger, Spencer Turnbull. The 8th in Tigers history. Fun watch. I wouldn't have put my money on Turnbull to get one but there you go. Per usual, I was intrigued in about the 6th and thought I'd just watch until someone gets a hit. Then, no one did. Went to bed about 1:30AM.

[Ksyrup]

When a Tigers pitcher is throwing a no-hitter, you know you have a problem in your sport. I think I saw that the Mariners are hitting .199 as a team. The major league batting average is .236. It was .237 in 1968. It was .239 in 1908. Those are the only 2 other years under .240.

The sport has eaten itself. Something's got to give.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

When a Tigers pitcher is throwing a no-hitter, you know you have a problem in your sport.

Buzzkill.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

When a Tigers pitcher is throwing a no-hitter, you know you have a problem in your sport. I think I saw that the Mariners are hitting .199 as a team. The major league batting average is .236. It was .237 in 1968. It was .239 in 1908. Those are the only 2 other years under .240.

The sport has eaten itself. Something's got to give.

At this point I would be all in for lowering the pitchers mound and enforcing rules for placing substance on the ball with a hefty fine and lengthy suspension.

Todays game of K, K, W, K HR, K is about as enjoyable as test cricket, when it should be trying to emulate T20 cricket.

[tarcone]

I believe this is a result of the rabbit ball era. Dudes that hit HRs gets the love. When they changed the ball this season, they changed the game as it has developed.

Personally, I would love to see baseball go back to the 80s Whitey Ball style.

[cuervo72]

Turf infields!