Sony PS3 to be delayed to 07, and Cost $900 to make?

[Raiders Army]

I got cut off earlier, but wanted to revisit a little:

I see the PS3 going the way of the Turbo Grafix 16 or Sega CD. Both systems were (IMHO) too advanced for their time and were consequently too expensive. If Sony is trying to follow the model for an advanced system at a high price, they would be the first the break the mold. I'm not too optimistic at their chances.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I got cut off earlier, but wanted to revisit a little:

I see the PS3 going the way of the Turbo Grafix 16 or Sega CD. Both systems were (IMHO) too advanced for their time and were consequently too expensive. If Sony is trying to follow the model for an advanced system at a high price, they would be the first the break the mold. I'm not too optimistic at their chances.

I highly doubt the PS3 will be a catastrophic failure like those 2 systems were. Sony may concede significant market share to MS and Nintendo in this console round, but they have a tremendous amount of share to give back given their current dominance. The lineup of games that will be exclusive to the PS3 or debut there first will keep Sony right in the middle of things, as well as their huge foothold in Japan.

[stevew]

At least they've given forewarning of how much it costs, 6 months ahead of time. Most people who planned on or hoped to get one would probably have been budgeting at least 600 bucks for the launch and some accessories. To add an extra 200 or so to that amount, especially this far out, is not impossible to do. It's basically adding an extra 10-15 bucks a week from here on out to the amount you were saving for it.

Although I realize that most people aren't going to budget for this item, as the older gamer will probably have that much spare cash lying around, or just put it on a credit card.

[dawgfan]

The hardcore Sony people are going to buy the PS3 regardless of the $600 price point - that's a given. The question is what the less passionate gamers are going to do.

Personally, that price point makes it highly unlikely I'll buy a PS3 until very, very late in it's lifespan. I'm on board with Peter Moore - I'd rather buy a 360 and a Wii for the money I'd have to spend on a PS3.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The hardcore Sony people are going to buy the PS3 regardless of the $600 price point - that's a given. The question is what the less passionate gamers are going to do.

Personally, that price point makes it highly unlikely I'll buy a PS3 until very, very late in it's lifespan. I'm on board with Peter Moore - I'd rather buy a 360 and a Wii for the money I'd have to spend on a PS3.

yeah, I'm definately pre-ording the Wii and will put the x360 on my Xmas list.

[Daimyo]

I generally only buy consoles when they hit $150 or so. With this announcement I probably won't pick up a PS3 until the PS5 is released.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think Gears of War can be the 'system seller' game you are looking for.

Considering Cliff Bleszinski is the brain behind the game, it definately has the potential.

[General Mike]

If GTA4 has more than 6 months exclusivity on XBOX 360, that could be a system seller for me.

[SunDevil]

GTA4 is coming out at same time on both Xbox360 and PS3

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

GTA4 is coming out at same time on both Xbox360 and PS3

Yeah, I just found out. That faggot from Microsoft confused the shit out of me yesterday on G4's coverage. F him.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Yeah, I just found out. That faggot from Microsoft confused the shit out of me yesterday on G4's coverage. F him.

[General Mike]

sorry Dawgfan.

[ISiddiqui]

Shame on General Mike .

[TroyF]

Here is the thing, the same time release still hurts PS badly.

I kept the PS2 around for three main reasons:

1) The fact the GTA series was out months ahead of any other platform.
2) God of War
3) MLB: The Show

That's it. I think Forza is better than Turismo. I've never been a huge fan of the MGS series. I've been purchasing all of the sports sims on the Xbox or now the 360 because of the advantage the HD gives me.

If GTA4 were coming out on the PS3 months before the Xbox360, that may cause me to have purchased the system a little earlier. God of War has the potential to do that, but I'm not buying a 600 dollar system for one game. There would have to be a ton of other exclusive, must have games.

Sony was really hurt by E3 IMHO. I didn't see a lot of good that came from em. Before the show, my plans were to buy a PS3 on release, forget the Wii and hope the 360 showed me some nice things.

After it, the PS3 has been put off until Spring '07 at the earliest, Wii has jumped to an instant buy and I'm more happy than ever with the 360 and my LIVE subscription. I should be thanking Sony here. I'll likely put the 500 bucks I had earmarked for a PS3 to use on a high powered desktop this fall. I think I'll be happier with the purchase.

[ISiddiqui]

I also think E3 killed Sony. The high price was bad enough, but the Wii looked utterly amazing. And I think a lot of people will think on the Microsoft VP's comments and say, you know I'd like to get a Wii as well as a next gen console... maybe I'll get the 360 and Wii for the same price as a PS3.

[kingnebwsu]

Great strategery by M$ because (to them) they're competing with Sony for the #1 spot, not Nintendo. Anyone who buys a 360 and Wii instead of a PS3 will be diluting Sony's share of the marketplace. This previous generation was pretty unexciting from a competitive perspective (PS2 blew everything out and the Dreamcast died pretty early in the cycle). I think this generation will be much more entertaining to watch. We'll see what happens.

I still think it will be ranked Sony, M$, Nintendo in the next generation, but it will be a lot closer than the previous one.

[Deattribution]

I actually think Nintendo could come out with the biggest gain (not the lead) compared to previous gen systems. It is honestly the only system that I feel like I *have* to try, just to try the new interaction out - throw in the price and it's a no brainer if they release a few top notch titles.

[Bee]

I think this is a case where people are giving the average consumer way too much credit. I don't think the average consumer knows what E3 even is, let alone cares. I also don't think the average consumer will do a bunch of research to determine game release dates or what games are exclusives for the various systems. IMO, the average consumer will buy whatever is getting hyped in the mainstream media.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

I actually think Nintendo could come out with the biggest gain (not the lead) compared to previous gen systems. It is honestly the only system that I feel like I *have* to try, just to try the new interaction out - throw in the price and it's a no brainer if they release a few top notch titles.

Nintendo will make huge gains. They won't take the lead, but they will increase their market share by a large amount IMO.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Bee

I think this is a case where people are giving the average consumer way too much credit. I don't think the average consumer knows what E3 even is, let alone cares. I also don't think the average consumer will do a bunch of research to determine game release dates or what games are exclusives for the various systems. IMO, the average consumer will buy whatever is getting hyped in the mainstream media.

Both the PS3 and 360 will be more or less equally hyped. One will cost $200 less.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Bee

I think this is a case where people are giving the average consumer way too much credit. I don't think the average consumer knows what E3 even is, let alone cares. I also don't think the average consumer will do a bunch of research to determine game release dates or what games are exclusives for the various systems. IMO, the average consumer will buy whatever is getting hyped in the mainstream media.

Here is the problem with that Bee. . .

E3 is ALL about hype. These events are all had with getting a media buzz. It's not just me or the people on here who are saying Sony did horrific. Read Sack Attack's review of it and his replies in this thread.

While MS and Nintendo had people standing up and applauding, Sony had the press people sitting on their hands and shaking their heads. That means less stories hyping how good the system is and more negative press.

Now, you are right, the average joe doesn't give a damn about E3. My friend who purchased the 360 the other day didn't know E3 from Adam. He did know about a press release that talked about the price point of $600 and instantly decided his next gen console would be the 360. The average Joe will see the price point.

Sony has time to recover from this. They could surprise me down the road. Yet this show was horrible for them and that will impact their press.

[Bee]

Well the only non-internet coverage I've seen about E3 so far was on ABC and basically it said that Nintendo and Sony introduced their new consoles that should be out by the end of the year. Price wasn't mentioned and neither was any negative/positive reactions of the crowd.

[jeff061]

Price was mentioned, and if it's not mainstream now it certainly will when people go to the store.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

Well the only non-internet coverage I've seen about E3 so far was on ABC and basically it said that Nintendo and Sony introduced their new consoles that should be out by the end of the year. Price wasn't mentioned and neither was any negative/positive reactions of the crowd.

You're exactly right. Most look at three things: name recognition, price and games. With Sony's extensive lead in the market, I'd be shocked if the 'doom and gloom' comes to pass. Sony may lose some of its lead in the form of less market share, but comparing the PS3 to Sega CD as someone did above is foolhardy at best. There's no denying that PS3 is an excellent system. It's just being sold at a high price point and there's no denying that will turn some people off.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Some concerning information involving the Wii. There are concerns amongst the gaming community that this allows an open connection that you may not necessarily want. Also, privately they are suggesting that Nintendo may use this to fight piracy by being able to disable certain portions of your system if they find any mods or illegal software. While I'm certainly not an endorser of piracy by any means, this appears to be a bad situation for the consumer in that they have no control over what is and is not brought into their gaming system. Wii gamers may have to literally unplug their gaming system to turn it 'off'.

From the official 'Wii' website:

Communication: Wii can communicate with the Internet even when the power is turned off. This WiiConnect24 service delivers a new surprise or game update, even if users do not play with Wii. Users can connect wirelessly using IEEE 802.11b/g, or with a USB 2.0 LAN adaptor. Wii also can communicate wirelessly with Nintendo DS.

[dixieflatline]

I just wanted to add a the latest data on game software in Japan. Check out Nintendo's dominance:

sys title - week [total]
NDS Tetris DS - 160,148 [378,247]
NDS Brain Training 2 - 112,392 [2,164,256]
PS2 World Soccer: Winning Eleven 10 - 100,860 [561,409]
NDS Brain Training - 84,075 [2,136,857]
NDS Animal Crossing: Wild World - 83,564 [2,645,481]
NDS Pokemon Ranger - 69,415 [496,834]
NDS English Training DS - 59,614 [998,343]
NDS Mario Kart DS - 37,037 [1,353,596]
GBA Mother 3 - 34,591 [291,428]
PS2 Dragon Quest: Yangus - 33,279 [215,237]

This would include PSP games but none made the top 10. The DS sales, specifically the DS lite, are also top of the list. I am sure that the PS3 will sell very well in Japan but Nintendo is far from dead.

[jeff061]

Yeah, I'm pretty happy with all the DS love. It's a great little handheld.

[oykib]

Speaking of Nintendo News:

Check out the Trump they pulled on Sony with Super Smash Bros. for the Wii:

SOLID

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by oykib

Speaking of Nintendo News:

Check out the Trump they pulled on Sony with Super Smash Bros. for the Wii:

SOLID

I don't get it...

[stevew]

Solid Snake is in the new Super Smash Brothers Brawl game.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Definitely a good idea for Nintendo to use this type of a strategy to try to get more switchovers in the Japanese market from Sony to Nintendo. MS is not a competitor in Japan although they do have a very small piece of the market.

I'm not sure where Microsoft is coming from at this point. Sony has a large advantage over them in current-gen systems. As far as next gen, Microsoft was right to release early, but due to the lack of many 'system selling' titles, they haven't really taken advantage of the early start. If PS3 has similar problems with their early titles, they MS does have an advantage. But at this point, MS probably needs to look in the mirror and quit worrying about other consoles. If they would have put out better titles up to this point, they would most likely be in a position to dominate the market after the E3 developments. Instead, they will be lucky to increase their presence in the US market to 30%. Probably not what they had in mind I would guess given their head start. It certainly is a increase in market share, but will still most likely allow Sony to maintain at least a 50% share in the US market.

To be fair, it wasn't Nintendo taking the swipes at Sony. That was all Moore trying to piggyback them.

As for Nintendo's strategy- this is what they've been preaching for over 2 years since talking about the DS. They've been talking up "blue ocean" business strategy- the idea that rather than squabbling over the same 25% of the market who buys video games now, try to attract the other 75%. Even if you steal 10% from a competitor in the video game market, that's just 2.5% of the overall market but if you go after a new audience, you can pull a lot more in general.

Nintendo's goal this gen is to become everyone's "second console" at a low price because if that happens, they've outsold either of the other two.

SI

[SackAttack]

What's funny is that Sony apparently responded by saying "What do you mean, people will buy a 360 and a Wii for the price of a PS3? They're going to buy a PS3 and Wii because they're made of money!"

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, as pointed out, it isn't like the X360 has been able to stay on the shelves until relatively recently (even then its mostly Core machines). Even without a system seller, they are doing very well. I'm sure they are disappointed that Halo 3 slipped to 2007, because it would have been quite a shot if released in November. Though Gears of War and other very impressive games are coming out for X360 soon. I think Gears of War can be the 'system seller' game you are looking for.

I think this is a fact that people who are really taking the 500/600 price to heart are missing. Like the 360, no matter what price the PS3 came out at, it was going to sell all of the stock out in the first 6-9 months. Sony just has to make sure too many people aren't scared over to the X360 by the initial price and they figure they can steal them all back in the long run with superior hardware. Not only that but the dev cost for Blu Ray is going to come down significantly over the next year so they'll be losing significantly less per unit and be able to drop the price quite a bit or quite quickly when the time comes.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Also, in regards to marketing, Nintendo should take full advantage of the situation and market it system as a family/kids system at a low price point. Sony has put its price point at a position to allow someone to develop a low cost system (like Wii) as an alternative. If Wii makes sure to stick with its roots with games based on franchises like Mario, Donkey Kong, Zelda, etc., it would put Microsoft in an extreme bind. Microsoft would then be too expensive as a low-cost alternative, losing customers to Nintendo. MS would also be stuck in a position where it is working with older technology to the point where the tech geeks and adult gamers would go with the better technology. Obviously, Sony needs to get some excellent games to show that technology off, but if they do, MS is in quite a pickle being neither a tech savvy or low cost alternative.

This really does encapsulate what baffles me about Microsoft this generation- they're the system without an identity. Last gen, they were the FPS/Sports/American RPG console which pulled in the overcompensation crow-- err... those folks who felt the need to have the biggest, baddest technical system even if the differences were not all that great. This gen, Sony took that away from them.

There is a market in the middle to be had, especially at the PS3's price, but it's going to be interesting to see how Microsoft tries to go after it.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I got cut off earlier, but wanted to revisit a little:

I see the PS3 going the way of the Turbo Grafix 16 or Sega CD. Both systems were (IMHO) too advanced for their time and were consequently too expensive. If Sony is trying to follow the model for an advanced system at a high price, they would be the first the break the mold. I'm not too optimistic at their chances.

It's an interesting analogy. However, I think the gaming population has "grown up" so to speak and the median age of gamers at that time was much lower than it is now. With age comes spending power and I'd venture to say the average gamer has a lot more to spend these days, hence the emergence of a third system, for good or ill (that's another argument for another day). It's not that there are more gamers but there are more gamers buying 2nd and 3rd systems- there's more money per consumer to spread around (which sucks for those of us in the "poor gamer" category who can't afford to spread out our gaming dollars across multiple systems, but, again, I digress). So, there is the money out there to buy up lots of PS3's- but it's making gamers make harder choices about where to put their gaming dollars and there will likely be less 2 and 3 console owners this generation because of the higher prices, at least until later in the generation.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Nintendo will make huge gains. They won't take the lead, but they will increase their market share by a large amount IMO.

I'm not quite sure how that works, tho. I have heard a lot of people with favorable impressions of Nintendo saying they'll do better this generation but sounding like they'll still be 3rd but not as distant a third.

So many people have this misconception about the number of Gamecubes sold versus Xboxes this generation. The number of XBoxes and Gamecubes worldwide are within a couple of million: last I checked, LTD numbers were something like 25M to 23M. It's not like the Xbox blew it away- just because the 19-35 demo preferred the Xbox doesn't mean Nintendo didn't do very well in markets like youngsters, parents, and Japan. I think people are blinded by NIMBY in this case- just because you and all your buddies didn't buy one doesn't mean they didn't sell.

SI

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'm not quite sure how that works, tho. I have heard a lot of people with favorable impressions of Nintendo saying they'll do better this generation but sounding like they'll still be 3rd but not as distant a third.

So many people have this misconception about the number of Gamecubes sold versus Xboxes this generation. The number of XBoxes and Gamecubes worldwide are within a couple of million: last I checked, LTD numbers were something like 25M to 23M. It's not like the Xbox blew it away- just because the 19-35 demo preferred the Xbox doesn't mean Nintendo didn't do very well in markets like youngsters, parents, and Japan. I think people are blinded by NIMBY in this case- just because you and all your buddies didn't buy one doesn't mean they didn't sell.

SI

I know Gameboys sold a lot. But an MS victory (any type of victory) worldwide says something. Nintendo had name recognition and a better price point and MS sweeped in with try one and beat them. That says something.

I'm stunned more people can't see it. Sony is going to have problems with this generation, at least in the US and Europe. They may sell out the first shipment or two, but I'm not even fully convinced of that if the price point doesn't drop.

Even if they do, they are 8 million units or so behind MS by the end of the year. This at a time MS can make its first price drop and will be coming out with its second generations of games.

Sony will see their market share lead erode on this round of console wars, if it even keeps the lead after it's all said and done.

[SackAttack]

Troy, that also assumes they can ship 4 million worldwide by 12/31/06.

And that premise is bullshit so deep Godzilla's knee-high in it.

[dixieflatline]

So apparently my new thing is going to be posting monthly sales figures since now that we know how much the PS3 is going to cost I have to move on from that. Anyway, WTF is the american public thinking?

sys: April [total]
Xbox 360: 295,381 [1,504,724]
PlayStation 2: 206,995 [39,458,926]
Game Boy Advance: 169,115 [37,455,961]
PlayStation Portable: 162,438 [4,332,872]
Nintendo DS: 138,427 [4,447,092]
Xbox: 38,987 [15,737,984]
GameCube: 38,028 [12,046,319]

Ok so obviously the best selling system should be the Xbox 360 and that tops the list for April. From what I understand shortages of the Xbox 360 are basically finally over so this should represent the real demand for the system. Anyway, the real surprises here are the huge numbers for the PS2 and the GBA. The PS2 is less than half a year from being replaced and the GBA was already supposed to be replaced by the DS. Why are americans so willing to throw money at these old systems? Anyway, the PSP and the DS are basically neck and neck in total sales now which I also find interesting. This really makes me wonder if it would actually be in Sony's best interest in delaying the PS3 even further until the manufacturing price comes down.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dixieflatline

Ok so obviously the best selling system should be the Xbox 360 and that tops the list for April. From what I understand shortages of the Xbox 360 are basically finally over so this should represent the real demand for the system.

The real seasonal demand, certainly. That isn't necessarily the demand we saw this past Christmas, nor what I'd expect to see when Gears of War and the other holiday titles come out this year.

Anyway, the real surprises here are the huge numbers for the PS2 and the GBA. The PS2 is less than half a year from being replaced and the GBA was already supposed to be replaced by the DS.

1) Were you paying attention at E3? PlayStation 2 had several AAA titles on display, including God of War II. It's a cheaper system, with cheaper games, and people can rationalize it by saying "I can play these games on my PS3 once the price drops." Between still-strong developer support and the cost factor, I'm not at all surprised that it continues to sell well. Moreover, while the PSone's support all but dried up within a year or two, I would expect the PS2 to continue to have strong software support well into the PS3 lifecycle, just because it's cheaper to develop for and at $499/$599 for the PS3, there will remain a sizeable portion of the market who won't have upgraded but will still want to play games.

2) The DS was never intended as the replacement for the GBA. That will be its own product line. The DS, I think, was intended more as a separate precursor to the Wii way of thinking, and had GBA cartridge support mostly because they realized that a significant portion of the DS early adopters would be GBA owners who didn't want to lug around two portable machines.

I don't think it's intended to be a long-term replacement (even though the development dollars have largely shifted to DS).

Why are americans so willing to throw money at these old systems? Anyway, the PSP and the DS are basically neck and neck in total sales now which I also find interesting. This really makes me wonder if it would actually be in Sony's best interest in delaying the PS3 even further until the manufacturing price comes down.

Because there's stuff they want to play, or the kids are pestering them for something, anything, now now now, and $129 sounds more attractive than $399 if it will shut the kids up.

As to the PSP and DS being neck-and-neck, those look like domestic numbers to me. It's not nearly as close on a global scale, but yeah, the American market has been swifter to embrace the PSP than the Japanese market has. Kinda like the 360, actually.

Also, remember that the DS Lite has yet to launch here. I'd be extremely interested to revisit the sales comparison between PSP and DS closer to Christmas and see if the DSL has enjoyed the same sales success domestically that it has in Japan, and whether the PSP is able to keep up.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'm stunned more people can't see it. Sony is going to have problems with this generation, at least in the US and Europe. They may sell out the first shipment or two, but I'm not even fully convinced of that if the price point doesn't drop.

Even if they do, they are 8 million units or so behind MS by the end of the year. This at a time MS can make its first price drop and will be coming out with its second generations of games.

Sony will see their market share lead erode on this round of console wars, if it even keeps the lead after it's all said and done.

Spot on. I can't believe people can't see this either. Sony screwed the pooch this go around. They may indeed keep the lead, but it's going to be eroded significantly. Microsoft seems to have a long term plan for this. The XBox 1 was just to get their foot in the door, with no expectations of profitability. It only existed because of the XBox 360, which was released at the exact right time and at the exact right price point. 2nd gen games and a price drop are going to be released as the PS3 comes out.

Quite likely they already have gameplaned the release of their next console. They've taken away plenty of 'dominant' companies' marketshare in the past, so they are basically experts at this sort of thing.

[dixieflatline]

Clearly you know a lot more about this than I do. And when I say a lot that is being generous to me. Even with some nice titles out there I still am surprised by the PS2 sales. But I will go along with what you say about the price and shutting the kids up. I do have a question about one point though.

Originally Posted by SackAttack

2) The DS was never intended as the replacement for the GBA. That will be its own product line. The DS, I think, was intended more as a separate precursor to the Wii way of thinking, and had GBA cartridge support mostly because they realized that a significant portion of the DS early adopters would be GBA owners who didn't want to lug around two portable machines.

I don't think it's intended to be a long-term replacement (even though the development dollars have largely shifted to DS).

It was my understanding that the DS was intended to be a replacement and that basically no new GBA games will be coming out. Add in the fact the the DS will play GBA games and I would think that most people would be going there with their money if they were going to go with Nintendo.

You are correct that those were only the US numbers as the DSlite is kicking butt right now Japan. I am not so sure how well it will do in the US but that will be something to watch as you pointed out.

[Daimyo]

I'm not surprised by the PS2 numbers at all. Didn't they just recently drop the price to $130? Not everyone buys consoles at release and I'm sure every price drop comes with some bump to sales.

I never purchased a PS2 (I bought GameCube and then Xbox when they each hit $150), but briefly considered it last week to try out the Square games I missed on and the karaoke games for my wife. I decided against it though when i thought a bit more and realized the Square games would probably just piss me off more than anything.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by dixieflatline

It was my understanding that the DS was intended to be a replacement and that basically no new GBA games will be coming out. Add in the fact the the DS will play GBA games and I would think that most people would be going there with their money if they were going to go with Nintendo.

You are correct that those were only the US numbers as the DSlite is kicking butt right now Japan. I am not so sure how well it will do in the US but that will be something to watch as you pointed out.

Originally, the DS was launched as a third tier for Nintendo to go alongside the Gamecube and GBA. As it is, GBA games have slowed to a trickle recently- there are some games, even some good quality ones in the GBA pipeline, but not much bulk as the majority of developers seem to have moved onto the DS. Reggie admitted at one point in the past few months that it has basically become two tiers again and that's led to speculation that the "three tier" thing they pushed really hard was just to keep people buying the GBA SP and later on the Micro. That said, there's also speculation that Nintendo is already hard at work developing the successor to the GBA. That said, it's all rumor and innuendo at this point.

The DSLite numbers out of Japan are positively insane. They're selling 150K-200K per week still and they just can't keep up with the demand despite it being out over 2 months.

SI

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by dixieflatline

It was my understanding that the DS was intended to be a replacement and that basically no new GBA games will be coming out. Add in the fact the the DS will play GBA games and I would think that most people would be going there with their money if they were going to go with Nintendo.

Everything Nintendo has said publicly points to GBA getting its own successor later on. The biggest thing to point to is the fact that the DS (at least, the American version) was deliberately engineered such that it doesn't have GBC and GB compatibility. You have to actually modify that cartridge slot in order to play those games.

If it were the true GBA successor, why would they have built those ridges in to prevent players from playing those old games? They never have before.

[Raiders Army]

Not to beat the dead horse, but it occurred to me just now the type of people who were waiting in line to buy the PS2 and Xbox 360. I was definitely in the minority since I was buying it for myself. I would say that 75% of the people waiting in El Paso for the PS2 and in upstate NY for the 360 were buying it for their son or nephew. Just my documented evidence that the people who will buy the PS3 will buy it for their kids instead of themselves.

There was some wacky stuff too. This lady was waiting outside of Sam's Club to buy it for her sister so she could give it to her sister's son. That was pretty nice. There was also a dad who brought a portable DVD player and watched The Munsters. Ah, the good ole days...

[WVUFAN]

This whole PS3/XBox 360 thing reminds me of the Dreamcast/PS2 battle a number of years back. Dreamcast has a inferior system in terms of hardware, but many people were quoting the fact that the PS2 was more expensive and that the Dreamcast had nearly a years worth of titles available for it when the PS2 came out. This is very close to being just like that, and we all know who ultimately won that war.

People are gonna buy the PS3 is droves. Like the PS2, which was considered a high priced console for it's time, pundits are underestimating the Sony fans out there.

Personally, I wasn't enthralled with the X-Box, and I'm not planning on picking up the 360 -- there's no games I'm interested in, and the idea of the Blu-Ray having quite a bit more storage space for games tells me that in the long run longer and more complete games will be made for the PS3.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Dreamcast has a inferior system in terms of hardware, but many people were quoting the fact that the PS2 was more expensive and that the Dreamcast had nearly a years worth of titles available for it when the PS2 came out. This is very close to being just like that, and we all know who ultimately won that war.

Sorry, doesn't work. PS2 wasn't almost twice as expensive as the Dreamcast. Secondly, the Dreamcast did not sell as many systems in a year as the X360 will (and IIRC, there was never a shortage of Dreamcast systems out there). Third, the 'inferior system' may not be all that 'inferior' at all. E3 reports say that PS3 games don't look much better than X360 games at all. And Romero has said the Cell architechture of the PS3 chip is FAR harder to program for. Finally, no one expected Sega to be much of a player when the Dreamcast was released. Their last offerings were unimpressive. On the other hand, no one is saying Microsoft will go away or won't be a player in the market.

The PS3 is going to be Sony's Nintendo 64, IMO. It's their overreach and they'll pay for it.

[Raiders Army]

The other thing the PS2 had going for it was backwards compatibility which the Dreamcast did not.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Sorry, doesn't work. PS2 wasn't almost twice as expensive as the Dreamcast. Secondly, the Dreamcast did not sell as many systems in a year as the X360 will (and IIRC, there was never a shortage of Dreamcast systems out there). Third, the 'inferior system' may not be all that 'inferior' at all. E3 reports say that PS3 games don't look much better than X360 games at all. And Romero has said the Cell architechture of the PS3 chip is FAR harder to program for. Finally, no one expected Sega to be much of a player when the Dreamcast was released. Their last offerings were unimpressive. On the other hand, no one is saying Microsoft will go away or won't be a player in the market.

The PS3 is going to be Sony's Nintendo 64, IMO. It's their overreach and they'll pay for it.

There were also rumors and anecdotal reports of Sony strongarming their retail partners. "We want those Dreamcast displays taken down. By the way, we aren't sure when we can provide your next allocation." How true? I don't know. But there was a definite difference in demand for the two machines, and I wouldn't be surprised if Sony flexed their muscles at least a little bit.

Plus, Sega used to have the best advertising crew in the business before they had money problems, and I can't remember seeing but maybe one DC ad in the life of the console. Somehow, I don't think that'll be an issue for Microsoft.