06-28-2009, 07:31 PM | #201 | |
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Found an interesting 2007 report from the CIF. http://www.cifstate.org/about/partic...rtsurvey07.pdf For boys, there's 107,916 playing football, followed by 49,911 track & field, 44,700 for soccer, 44,722 for basketball, and 42,835 for baseball. For girls, soccer has 40,895 to pass track & field's 38,817, volleyball has 36, 499,basketball had 34,991, and softball had 31,306. Of course raw numbers says nothing about the prestige of the various sports but I thought it was interesting to find those numbers. edit to add: Still haven't found a northeast state specific figure, much less one for a region, but here's an interesting link. It's the National Federation of High School Associations database for participation in nearly every HS sport imaginable, boys & girls, by year, nationally. You can sort by sport for all the years or by year for all the sports.
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06-28-2009, 07:33 PM | #202 | |
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It kills me that they seemed to recognize that in the first half, but fucking forgot it at halftime
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06-28-2009, 07:46 PM | #203 | ||
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I don't think they "forgot it" - it takes a LOT out of you to track players and pressure them continually during a match, simple as that. I'd expect that they tired and gave up that little bit of time and space which Brazil needed to make the difference. To be honest the result is still something to be proud of from a USA perspective, heck I'd be dead chuffed if England managed a 2-3 loss against Brazil most days Quote:
Everyone who enters a tournament should want to win it - but they should also imho be realistic about their achievements. Don't nail your coach to the flag post because you didn't win it - appreciate the fact that realistically speaking your team far out-performed reasonable expectations, given time he might take them even further. |
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06-28-2009, 07:51 PM | #204 | |
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I've followed USA soccer at arms length for most of my life. I don't like soccer. I'd like to see the USA do well and cheer for the USA as an American. But the USA soccer base is just about the worst fan base of any sport I've ever seen. Fans are patting the team on the back for making one of its greatest tournament runs ever while trashing the coach for his decisions. So ... the expectation is that the team isn't better than Brazil and when the team loses, fire the coach. That attitude makes George Steinbrenner seem absolutely calm and rational. USA soccer fans remind me a lot of my local Royals fan base. They know the Royals don't have a team to compete then they win a few games and they expect them to win it all. As soon as they start to lose, its the manager's fault because he sucks or it's the GM for signing too many vets or not enough, playing too many rookies or not enough. What I've seen USA soccer do is what any team that doesn't win often does: change coaches, players, management, etc. But this isn't the NFL where parity is king or MLB where you an buy a title. You can't change a country's performance in a sport on a dime. Spain is competitive with the US in basketball but it's taken decades of improvement. There's no magical fix that will make Team USA a winner. Burning down the house and restarting without plan will continue to keep American soccer in neutral. But RPI touches on what I think is our fundamental flaw in soccer. USA soccer fans are generally satisfied with an atta-boy. Look at Brazil and other winners in soccer -- losses hurt and hurt bad. When we got embarrassed in basketball in 1988, when unleashed the pros and punished the world. If Brazil had lost today, there would be nationwide mourning. We lost and ... we don't really care. If that's your mindset, you're not going to win. It's not a jingo-istic American thing -- it's about being a winner. The USA didn't expect to win and Brazil did. When that's the case, the results are usually predictable. Last edited by kcchief19 : 06-28-2009 at 07:54 PM. |
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06-28-2009, 07:56 PM | #205 | |
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Bingo. You tend to see a lot of matches where the underdog has a shot, has a shot, has a shot... but then the better team goes wild and scores a couple goals and takes the game. Reason being because constant pressure of the opposing, more talented, squad, while exceedingly effective is also incredibly hard to keep up for 90 minutes.
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06-28-2009, 08:03 PM | #206 | |
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I can see from a 'money' perspective (locally in America) soccer isn't that popular - however for older people at least in my area of Florida it seems more popular as a sport to play than more 'traditional' American sports*. I play in a very active soccer league (3v3 or 4v4 for adults) with probably around 80-100 odd active players at my age (and around 300 players at youth age). Its great fun and the skill level varies from fairly low (there are a lot of people who've never played soccer before in the rec leagues) to very talented (some of the better players in the competitive divisions are incredibly skillful - particularly some of the people who've played at college level). I think more and more people are attracted to soccer because in its essence its a very simple sport and requires next to no equipment to play a match, indeed I play pick up matches here on a sunday in one of the local parks where we still do the whole 'jumpers for goalposts' type of thing *I say more popular than traditional American sports simply because I have yet to see an American Football or Baseball league advertised for adults in the area, I have seen adult basketball leagues advertised and that is what I'd probably consider the 'most popular' to play sport around this area. I find this interesting as I'd always thought American Football and Baseball were the 'classic' American sports and as such expected to see more of them played when I moved over here. |
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06-28-2009, 08:03 PM | #207 | |
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Unless you don't believe that the team will ever win with said coach, in which case it would seem to make pretty good sense (assuming the object is actually to win eventually).
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06-28-2009, 08:04 PM | #208 |
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I don't think a coach is immune from criticism just because the team overperforms. The team can surpass expectations for reasons other than the coach, and it is possible for the coach to prevent them from taking full advantage of that.
A case in point is the Orlando Magic this year. Van Gundy certainly did some good things in helping them get where they ended up, but there's no doubt that his terrible decisions cost the Magic at least 4 or 5 playoff games, and definitely cost them THE key game of the Finals. So eventhough the Magic got further than anyone expected, Van Gundy still deserves every bit of criticism for his horrible decision making. I don't know enough about soccer to judge the tactics that Bradley employed, but just because the US squeaked in to the semis based on lucky circumstances and pulled off a big upset doesn't validate all of his decisions.
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06-28-2009, 08:06 PM | #209 | |
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Though one of the problems may be that the coach that some of the fanbase seems to want doesn't seem to exist (or at least doesn't seem to want the US job or would ask for a wheelbarrow-load of money).
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06-28-2009, 08:07 PM | #210 | |
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Bet you'd have no problem finding a great deal more than 100 or so adult male softball players though. The physical demands of baseball tend to put an end to most competitive play by adulthood except for real extreme diehards, and they gravitate to softball. Sometimes ultra-competitive, more often beer league caliber and a good bit that are in between. Full blown full contact football for adults pretty much ceases to exist outside of a relative few semi-pro teams & leagues, there's a little bit of organized flag football out there afaik but the injury risk plus the high cost tend to end pads & helmet play for most folks.
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06-28-2009, 08:11 PM | #211 | |
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Scouting and the different style of play also do contribute. The top players get seen internationally, or at showcase youth tournaments, but if you're going for a squad player why would a European team bother coming across the ocean to scout in America than going to a nearby country? Also it takes almost any player time to adjust to a new league, but there's such little track record of players going from MLS to Europe, or vice versa that it's hard to know how a player will translate. (That can also work against foreigners coming into MLS - there have been many, many busts and players that couldn't handle the physicality/athleticism of MLS.) Mexican teams play a more continental style, and the Superliga matches almost always end up being intense because of the clash of styles. What's called a foul in Mexico, or Spain, or what's a red card internationally, isn't in MLS, and players that think they've been fouled with no call start hacking and bitching. |
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06-28-2009, 08:13 PM | #212 | |
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good points. i guess i just would have wished that Bradley would have substituted accordingly (bring on fresh legs that might have helped), but there again i guess the lack of depth hurt.
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06-28-2009, 08:15 PM | #213 |
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Jurgen Klinsmann turned down the job not over money but over US Soccer refusing to give him control of the Youth Development Teams. The politics and good ole boy network is very much alive and well.
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06-28-2009, 08:16 PM | #214 | |
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yeah. but i think they could have done better..seemed like they just had nothing in the second half, which, as a fan, is disappointing.
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06-28-2009, 08:20 PM | #215 | |
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Fair point, but a different point IMO. They could be still right that the current guy isn't "the guy" but in denial that he doesn't exist/isn't obtainable under acceptable terms.
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06-28-2009, 08:30 PM | #216 | |
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I'm not sure blaming US Soccer for not giving Klinsmann the keys to the entire house is all that fair. NFL experiments should show us that GM-Coach deals don't always tend to work that well... for obvious reasons.
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06-28-2009, 08:31 PM | #217 | ||
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Without trying to be mean, most people will agree that both the Brazilian and Spanish teams are technically and physically head and shoulders above the USA team - both contain what are considered to be World Class players playing at the peak of their games and performing consistently within the best soccer leagues in the world. The USA team by contrast has some very competant players but few players who could be considered on a level with their opposing players. From what I could see the tactics that the USA coach employed were intended to emphasise superior work-rate, cohesion and tactical organisation to nullify the differential in skill between the teams. This very nearly came off and imho is a sign of a very good coach, one who should be praised rather than criticised. The team USA reminded me of most were the Greek side who won't the European Championships a while back - that side also was lacking in stand out 'World Class' players but made up for it through work rate and organisation. |
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06-28-2009, 08:35 PM | #218 | |
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To be honest I don't know what the level of coaching is like at university levels etc. here because I haven't attended - BUT I have been hugely impressed with the skill level of older teenagers I've played against here, heck the technical control of most of them surpasses most similar aged English players (the problem is more however imho that they know the 'control' and especially the 'cool' tricks but lack positional intelligence defensively - that being said the little buggers can still run me into the ground without any hassle after which positionally I've got my hands on my knee's gasping and it doesn't disadvantage them at all ). Last edited by Marc Vaughan : 06-28-2009 at 08:36 PM. |
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06-28-2009, 08:40 PM | #219 | |
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how'd my name get attached to that quote?
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06-28-2009, 08:42 PM | #220 |
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lack positional intelligence defensively - that's a nice bit of analysis MV - thanks for that. I guess I was under the wrong impression as far as lacking the close-control bit.
but i still contend as far as "seeing the larger game" that I was correct and we're talking about the same thing -- defensive positional intelligence, the ability to move into space and play the ball into space and make your teammates better is what most US players are lacking (on a "world class" level)
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06-28-2009, 09:02 PM | #221 | |
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Game time - 3 points Dynamo.
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06-28-2009, 09:36 PM | #222 |
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06-28-2009, 09:43 PM | #223 |
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Don't know if it's been mentioned, but does the loss of Bradley today from the lineup have an effect on the outcome? Do they hang on with him out there?
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06-28-2009, 09:49 PM | #224 | |
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no worries - just found it curious. like you put my name on his quote but the point you responded to was mine
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06-28-2009, 09:50 PM | #225 | |
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maybe. it might have given them some more midfield depth. but idk because then he would have likely started and we'd have been missing benny F
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06-28-2009, 10:06 PM | #226 | |
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Either way, it would have given a better option later in the game then Sacha. Since Beasley has been benched, Sach is my new target of venom.
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06-28-2009, 11:17 PM | #227 |
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06-29-2009, 01:04 AM | #228 | |
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Not saying those people supporting Scioscia's moves are wrong. There's certainly logic to support that he knows what he's doing. But when every single year your team suffers from offensive issues, and in particular, power issues, and your statistically least productive players are playing at the same position as your best offensive prospect who is tearing it up in AAA, it's a little hard to just swallow that and go with it. As for the numbers, really? You're going to toss out what Wood's done in 192 at bats in sporadic time, mostly September or spot injury call ups, over three seasons to make a vast generalization on him? Come on, not everyone is a star in the bigs from the first moment they step on a major league field.
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06-29-2009, 01:38 AM | #229 |
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Whoever is slagging on MIJB needs to take a time out and reevaluate. MIJB has been nothing but supportive of USA Football. Yeah, he gives a neutral take on things. He's not a USA!!USA!! Moronic patriot. He's a supportive outsider from a country that has a richer football tradition than we could even dream of having.
He's on our side, but he's not blind to the truth. MIJB, I always have, and always will continue to appreciate your contributions. Don't let buttheads deter you, please.
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06-29-2009, 01:46 AM | #230 |
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btw, that second goal from our side was one of the most beautiful plays I have ever witnessed in any sport. If I had been more sober while watching it, the hairs on the back of my neck would have not only stood, but leapt from my skin.
That counter-attack and goal was a prime example of why people call it "The Beautiful Game". I could watch the replay forever.
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06-29-2009, 02:03 AM | #231 | |
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Yeah, its one of those times you realize that Donovan is a genuine skill player - and the US doesn't have many of those to waste. Yeah he's frustrating as hell, but the talent is still there. |
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06-29-2009, 02:32 AM | #232 | |
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Word. Flawed he may be, but he's pretty much the best we got, and we should appreciate him.
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06-29-2009, 07:31 AM | #233 |
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YouTube - Landon Donovan goal vs Brazil - Confederations Cup Final (USA v Brazil)
(for some reason my video-embedding fu has left the building)
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06-29-2009, 09:33 AM | #234 | |
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Many feel he is the best player for the US, so yes I would say it had an affect. Maybe Bob would have went to his bench sooner if Feilhaber would have been available. I think one of the announcers said that Brazil had played everyone on its roster, except for its two backup goalkeepers. They were more fresh down the stretch, and that is probably why. Many of the US players would probably not be considered match fit coming into this tournament. (Spector, Bocanegra, Altidore, etc.) I also agree that MIJB did nothing wrong. I use to think he was Eurosnot, but that was probably the more immature GE that though that.
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06-29-2009, 09:34 AM | #235 | |
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Donovan would tear it up in LaLiga, where he would be given time and space on the ball. He really needs to get out of MLS.
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06-29-2009, 09:36 AM | #236 | |
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Totally.
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06-29-2009, 05:05 PM | #237 | |||
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Take Charlie Davies as an example. He graduated HS from this area a year after me and I have many friends that played with/against him either ISL or club teams. There were a number that had technical ability in the same range, but Davies was also a fantastic athlete (All American wrestler). That meant he would get put at forward, served long balls and get the attention (another example for US fans is Sheanon Williams, who was the 2nd best player on the Bolts to a kid who lost 5 games in 3 years combined between HS and Club and just quit college soccer because he played possession CM/AM and his team is all long ball). Even in college at BC it was much the same thing for 3 years. Then he left to go to Sweden, where he's quite possibly the best athlete in the league, but he has poor finishing so it takes him until the last game of his 1st season to score his 1st goal. Then this past season he did very well and is being looked at by clubs in France, Holland, Germany. But he did that at a later age than comparative European players (he just turned 23). If you removed the 3 years he effectively spent stagnating at BC, he'd be 20 and a very bright prospect. Instead he's looked at as a finished project by many teams solely due to age, even though he's still developing, and won't get nearly the attention of a player like Theo Walcott or Jozy Altidore. Meanwhile of the other players who were as good or better technically, they played D3 ball, or a couple D1, and now all but 1 or 2 have gotten college degrees and are working in higher paying jobs than anything MLS will pay, and playing the weekend mens leagues. Now, some players have come through college and turned into good players (Dempsey, Davies, Marcus Tracy, Vedad Ibisevic from TSG Hoffenheim, Shalrie Joseph, GK's it doesn't affect much) but those guys all were late bloomers because of the 3-4 years of limited development. Of course while it hampers our production of world-class players (and more and more young players like Altidore, Bradley and Adu are going pro instead of college) the flip side of the coin is that many of our "failed" football players are getting an education and are able to find a good job after college, while in most other countries the ones that don't make it professionally are usually left with less than a high school education. You can see why parents in this country like the current system. |
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06-29-2009, 07:16 PM | #238 | |
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I enjoy your wide eyed optimism Big Fo and I saw the ESPN.com poll put most people in your camp, but I can't see it as anything other then delusional. |
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06-29-2009, 08:07 PM | #239 | |
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I dunno - Germany's a pretty high-scoring league (though admittedly more Premier League like than Spain), and he certainly wasn't a big hit there. I think Donovan's running away from Germany twice probably scars him in European eyes; I do think he has the talent to play at that level (not a Real Madrid / Barca of course, but still). |
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06-29-2009, 09:30 PM | #240 | |
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06-29-2009, 11:18 PM | #241 | |
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Well it's hardly delusional considering they've made it out of the group stage two of the last four times. Maybe they will, maybe they won't but they'll have a decent chance. Qualifiers could change, most confederations are still in progress, but here is what the draw could look like as of today (it's unlikely the US would be in pot 1 even with a Gold Cup victory): (stats from www.football-rankings.info) Pot 1: Argentina, Brazil, England, France, Germany, Italy, South Africa, Spain Pot 2: Croatia, Czech Republic, Greece, Netherlands, Portugal, Russia, Switzerland, Turkey Pot 3: Australia, Honduras, Iran, Japan, Korea Republic, Mexico, Saudi Arabia, USA Pot 4: Cameroon, Chile, Cote d'Ivoire, Egypt, Ghana, Nigeria, Paraguay, Uruguay Obviously, a Spain/Netherlands/USA/Cote d'Ivoire group would likely see us coming home early. Even assuming we won't luck out and get South Africa's group, something like Germany/Greece/USA/Nigeria would be something the US would have a good chance of qualifying from. |
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06-30-2009, 05:51 PM | #242 | |
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Those teams were better then this team. I rewatched much of the Championship game. Howard kept that from being 5 or 6 to 2. Haven't seen it many places but he was brilliant for much of that game. Teams that are going to go to the World Cup and play well aren't blowing 2-0 halftime leads like that. Even at 2-0 Brazil knew they were coming back, they dominated that game, it was just the rare occasion the US converted their few chances and it made the score much closer then the game. |
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06-30-2009, 06:18 PM | #243 | |
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It should have been 4-2 regardless as the refs missed a Brazil goal. |
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06-30-2009, 07:57 PM | #244 | |
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Based on the book coming out, Donovan isn't coming back to an MLS team after what happened with Beckham |
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06-30-2009, 07:58 PM | #245 |
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06-30-2009, 10:12 PM | #246 | |
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And if Donovan was the leader/captain he thinks he is in his mind and actually cared about team success, he wouldn't be publicly airing it out with his team's most important player for the 2nd half of the season. |
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06-30-2009, 10:16 PM | #247 |
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Wait... you came away with Donovan coming off like a spoiled brat?! Donovan?!
Wow. If anything, I came away with far more respect for LD than I've had in the past.
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06-30-2009, 11:53 PM | #248 | |
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What? |
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07-01-2009, 12:59 AM | #249 |
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Wow, that article is an eye opener. And as a Galaxy fan, it makes a lot of things about the team the past couple seasons--failing in spite of their talent--make a ton of sense.
I'm in the camp with Issidiqui, BTW, have no idea how it's Donovan that comes off looking bad there. I'm not sure it's a good idea for Becks to come back to LA with what's in this article.
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07-01-2009, 01:28 AM | #250 | |||||||||||
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B) any athlete, let alone a professional, who needs a rah-rah team meeting when they're losing is a joke. Quote:
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