Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over)

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

path, just to confirm are you the bodyguard? I would really like to know more about your role and what has been happening with it. I haven't felt you have done anything bad, and have felt you are good, but I don't actually know anything. Does anyone here know anything about path, his role and his actions?

As I've repeatedly said, I cannot reveal my role under any circumstances. I started neutral as the jailer. I am now good. My hints will have to suffice.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

500 seems about average, which is what I would expect all detectives to make (police officers don't make a lot of money). I don't think the starting income was random. Would it make sense for me to start the game with $200 and Swaggs $1000? No, there's a reason LSG started with that much money.



She's a detective. Law enforcement. That money belonged to someone else and it is her duty to report the money as found. Blade got pissed when Swaggs found some of his money in the trash, so why is it different for a detective?



I don't think you would have been arrested necessarily since there are more important fish in the sea. It is possible that gambling is legal, but if that were the case, why don't you work in a casino? I get the impression that what you do is done in back rooms and under the table. I don't think you're evil, but I don't think what you're doing is legal, either. Which is why it strikes me as odd that LSG bet on a game.



From last night when she was talking to Blade:

Hmm, okay, i can buy some of what you're saying. But my impression is that LSG has been playing her detective role like a job with her game actions, but just being herself with other stuff. Maybe a cop wouldn't fail to report finding money or wouldn't gamble, but LSG, as a normal everyday person who is not normally a cop, would, especially as none of it is real.

If she was a bad cop, wouldn't she be causing more havoc right now? She gave specific details about my search that I have confirmed. It matched exactlky with what happened with me. This was with me teetering on the edge. One bad word from her and I would have been steamrolled (actually I was voted anyway and saved by a duke ability out of my control, but the vote wasn't a heartfelt, screw you, Chief, more like a best candidate thing). Point is, she could have said anything, and sent me up the river, and all the while knowing I'm not mafia (if she were mafia, she would know). But she didn't. She said exactly the truth of what happened.

Everything she has said has rung true with me and with what has come out after. I can see what you're saying, but I just don't buy it. It's not enough. It doesn't pass my instincts.

The last one is the most damning, but Blade ahdn't given prices for the items yet. I think LSG's decision she needed some protection outweighed her good sense there.

[Blade6119]

No, i just assumed lsg had gone through with the deal...apparently she balked when sndvls passed her a gun that apparently chief rum sent him

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

As I've repeatedly said, I cannot reveal my role under any circumstances. I started neutral as the jailer. I am now good. My hints will have to suffice.

Sorry, I must have missed that. My impression was more of a "it would be a bad idea for me to reveal" sorta thing, not that you absolutely could not reveal for game mechanics purposes.

Are you saying you are no longer the jailer? And with others the transition from evil to good involved being approached by the mafia. Were you approached?

And what is your read on the remaining players?

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Blade-- the more everyone else looks solid, the more Blade's "talk crap on everyone" act without actually helping is looking worse. I think my earlier theory on Blade (converted) still holfd, and he hasn't helped us hardly at all since the DT lynch, except muddy up the waters.

First of all, my role wasnt nuetral so i couldnt have been converted. Secondly, LSG scanned me during the game and i showed up good(not nuetral, not evil).

Thirdly, i was the one during the cronin/dt lynch who said i thought bsak was likely the third evil member due to his swap. I let it go over time though to pursue other targets(read: you). How has attacking you for like 3 days straight throwing crap on everyone...ive stated i trust most of the game, and have said i dont trust you. Sndvls is now heavily linked to you, and as such requires a weary eye as well. If your going to slander, get your facts straight

[Blade6119]

So now chief is not only attacking me, who has done a hell of a lot more for our team then he has...hes also attacking our detective...great

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Oh, did lsg not buy anything?

I still think we have our final two mafia lined up, in chief and sndvls...lsg, remember what bsak said? He said sndvls, bought all that shit(gun, armor, ammo, fingerprint stopper). We all thought he was just being pissy as he died...but here is sndvls giving you a gun his role should not have.

If you were evil right now, what would you do? What was our major reason for many of our moves in x-men lsg? To earn trust...Sometimes we gave the village info or actions that helped them more then us to earn trust...dont you think thats what their doing now?

By the way chief, bs on the convert story. There is no reason if that happened to you, that you would keep it secret until now(until i revealed the details of how it happens). Total bs

Why would you not know if LSG bought anything. Aren't you the pawn shop owner?

Bsak tried to set up SnDvls. Bsak is confirmed mafia. Why would he do that to another mafia member? If you're on the hook, you go after good guys to save yourself. I don't buy some elaborate clear SnDvls in dying thing from Bsak. SnDvls got the gun from me, as has been made clear.

I talked about the mafia action well before you talked about jack squat. I didn't give specifics because of exactly this--I wanted to see if anyone was having the same sort of experience.

Incidentally, you would have that experience whether you accepted it or turned it down. So just admitting you had the experience is bad for you.

[Blade6119]

Dola, what has sndvls role given us lately? I remember him telling us one thing, right when he revealed...what has his role done lately to help the side of good?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Dola, what has sndvls role given us lately? I remember him telling us one thing, right when he revealed...what has his role done lately to help the side of good?

you do realize that LSG cleared me again today right?
I've been scanned/searched three times this game or at least claimed by three people.
Once by you, once by Swaggs and now by LSG.
If I was bad wouldn't one of you have found something? Even if you and LSG were bad...swaggs was confirmed good after his death.

[SnDvls]

dola - you also realize that it was CR 2 king 2 and Bsak 1 when I voted bsak to make it 2 votes for everyone

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Why would you not know if LSG bought anything. Aren't you the pawn shop owner?

Bsak tried to set up SnDvls. Bsak is confirmed mafia. Why would he do that to another mafia member? If you're on the hook, you go after good guys to save yourself. I don't buy some elaborate clear SnDvls in dying thing from Bsak. SnDvls got the gun from me, as has been made clear.

I talked about the mafia action well before you talked about jack squat. I didn't give specifics because of exactly this--I wanted to see if anyone was having the same sort of experience.

Incidentally, you would have that experience whether you accepted it or turned it down. So just admitting you had the experience is bad for you.

No, it is a proven tactic that if your mafia and dying to have other mafia be attacking you or attack them. People tend to trust those people(as we did with sndvls). It works every freaking time...

You didnt even mention you were converted...you said you knew about a mafia action...i see no reason you wouldnt say "hey, they tried to convert me." If you were holding onto details to try and clear someone else if they had a similar experience, you are totally ignoring that.

You know what i just realized...and anxiety can confirm this i hope. Only nuetral roles can be converted...thats the mechanism. No good roles have been converted, only nuetral. bsak was a nuetral, as were you. If they tried to convert you, you would turn evil. Since anxiety and i started off good we couldnt be converted...it all makes sense now.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

If she was a bad cop, wouldn't she be causing more havoc right now? She gave specific details about my search that I have confirmed. It matched exactlky with what happened with me. This was with me teetering on the edge. One bad word from her and I would have been steamrolled (actually I was voted anyway and saved by a duke ability out of my control, but the vote wasn't a heartfelt, screw you, Chief, more like a best candidate thing). Point is, she could have said anything, and sent me up the river, and all the while knowing I'm not mafia (if she were mafia, she would know). But she didn't. She said exactly the truth of what happened.

Remember, she's under the impression that there is another detective out there. She has to at least give the appearance that she's working for good. But let's look at what she said about you yesterday.

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Cheif Rum - I went to his house and found a UPS man leaving with a package. But in his house there was a package addressed to me. I took it. I had a choice of opening it and keeping it, or putting it into evidence. I chose to be an upright citizen and put it into evidence. It was a rare gem. I dont know why he would send it to me though... I dont need a gem, Blade does. Also, he wasn't in the system at all.... but the PM was curious as to maybe he wasn't in there cuz nobody has thought to fingerprint him yet.

Now that I think about it, I think maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to kill Cheif just to see....

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

And as far as trusting Cheif has to go, I trust him more now that I did the search than I did yesterday. The search cleared him, but at the same time the pm implied it was possible that Chief just hasn't gotten caught for his crimes yet, which makes me worry a little.

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I forgot I unvoted Narc so I jumped out of class to vote

cheif rum


I think my pm left too many holes out there.... I would rather double check.

And anxiety, I wish you would have left king alone

So she cleared you and then voted for you. Still sound like a cop on the up and up?

Also, is anyone else bothered by the fact that she's willing to use a gun that was given to her as evidence (and may have been used in a crime) to defend herself?

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Sorry, I must have missed that. My impression was more of a "it would be a bad idea for me to reveal" sorta thing, not that you absolutely could not reveal for game mechanics purposes.

Are you saying you are no longer the jailer? And with others the transition from evil to good involved being approached by the mafia. Were you approached?

Post #1716.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And what is your read on the remaining players?

I trust LSG, which is a big change from normally.

I've been neutral on you, but am now leaning good.

I've been leaning good on Anxiety, Blade and JE, but now am having doubts about each. I still think there is a distinct possibility that DT was telling the truth about the Mafia boss role passing on to Blade, and I wish wish wish that he could be checked out. Anxiety's move last night and his eagerness to get a gun now both raise hackles. JE's move against LSG I don't necessarily agree with, but it's a lot easier to imagine him taking a stand like that while being good than putting a target on himself when bad.

I have been distrusting SnDvls because of two reasons: there is no reporter role listed, and he hasn't been cleared by anyone as far as I know. You could say that his passing the item to LSG moves him up the trust list, but I don't know if I buy that yet. Evil is trying to show good right now.

All in all, it's a mess. I think evil has played very well. But there are my thoughts.

Are we voting LSG for judge? (I think I did already but will check). We can put anyone in there except Anxiety and JE.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

dola - you also realize that it was CR 2 king 2 and Bsak 1 when I voted bsak to make it 2 votes for everyone

Ya, you put them into a tie that could easily be broken if you needed to...

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

First of all, my role wasnt nuetral so i couldnt have been converted. Secondly, LSG scanned me during the game and i showed up good(not nuetral, not evil).

Thirdly, i was the one during the cronin/dt lynch who said i thought bsak was likely the third evil member due to his swap. I let it go over time though to pursue other targets(read: you). How has attacking you for like 3 days straight throwing crap on everyone...ive stated i trust most of the game, and have said i dont trust you. Sndvls is now heavily linked to you, and as such requires a weary eye as well. If your going to slander, get your facts straight

I don't recall it being stated in the roles that good couldn't be converted. Just that neutral could end up with a choice to go either way. LSG cleared you early on, on the very first day IIRC. I believe you were converted after the fact, likely after DT was killed, perhaps even in the same way he himself described before getting lynched.

You have sent out crap about just about everyone. It is something you do so you can point to it later as if you're all good. Look, I can predict each and every team is going to win the World Series, too, right now, and in eight months, I will come back to the post that says "X Team will win the World Series!" Never mind the 29 other wrong predictions. Your "bsak is evil" claim means nothing.

What facts have I missed? Please, tell me. I only see interpretations. While you're looking up "fact" in the dictionary, you might also look up "wary" and "weary".

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I don't recall it being stated in the roles that good couldn't be converted. Just that neutral could end up with a choice to go either way. LSG cleared you early on, on the very first day IIRC. I believe you were converted after the fact, likely after DT was killed, perhaps even in the same way he himself described before getting lynched.

Exactly...if you are telling the truth about your encounter with mafia you would know they gave us a choice. All 3 of us had the choice of being evil..thats what the rules talk about

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

So now chief is not only attacking me, who has done a hell of a lot more for our team then he has...hes also attacking our detective...great

You have done nothing but confuse things for most of the game now. Bravo.

And re-read my posts. I am standing up for LSG.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

You know what i just realized...and anxiety can confirm this i hope. Only nuetral roles can be converted...thats the mechanism. No good roles have been converted, only nuetral. bsak was a nuetral, as were you. If they tried to convert you, you would turn evil. Since anxiety and i started off good we couldnt be converted...it all makes sense now.

I don't know that I buy that at all. What is your reasoning for believing this?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

And i would not give anxiety the gun no matter what blade

Okay, so you don;t like the king thing, I get that. I totally understand, and vote me out of office, as I am doing as well.

But to think that I;m a mafia? That's just silly. I'm triple cleared (hoops, narc, and lathum), and there was a failed conversion. Why would they try a second conversion when the first failed? And when would they have been able to? We have a solid account of their activity. Convert attempts on CR, Blade, and Bsak, deaths on other days. So when would this mysterious conversion have taken place?

There's a differene between saying you think I made a bad call to thinking that I'm mafia. Even if you disagree with me, I should still have protection, right? I bought bullets a long time ago, we have two guns out here, only one is in use, why not give me, the current judge, the gun?

[Blade6119]

VOTE CHIEF RUM

Another day, another reason..they just keep piling up(and he wont avoid the lynch today with some power)

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

No, it is a proven tactic that if your mafia and dying to have other mafia be attacking you or attack them. People tend to trust those people(as we did with sndvls). It works every freaking time...

You didnt even mention you were converted...you said you knew about a mafia action...i see no reason you wouldnt say "hey, they tried to convert me." If you were holding onto details to try and clear someone else if they had a similar experience, you are totally ignoring that.

You know what i just realized...and anxiety can confirm this i hope. Only nuetral roles can be converted...thats the mechanism. No good roles have been converted, only nuetral. bsak was a nuetral, as were you. If they tried to convert you, you would turn evil. Since anxiety and i started off good we couldnt be converted...it all makes sense now.

So you think we should suspect CR?

That does resonate with me.... Let me catch up in other areas.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by path12

I don't know that I buy that at all. What is your reasoning for believing this?

Like chief pointed out, the rules state the nuetral roles will have a choice of being good or evil. In all 3 of our evil encounters, they offer us a choice. Anxiety and i both got into fights then and there, while chief didnt. Chief didnt have violence against him when he supposedly refused(i was shot at, and i think anxiety was too...i know he was attacked in some way).

Dont you see...he accepted the offer, or at least decided later on that day. He didnt balk right away

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by path12

We can put anyone in there except Anxiety and JE.

This is two days in a row that you've said this. And while I don't want to be judge (I could only really perform the duties today because of work), what's the reasoning behind this?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

No, it is a proven tactic that if your mafia and dying to have other mafia be attacking you or attack them. People tend to trust those people(as we did with sndvls). It works every freaking time...

You didnt even mention you were converted...you said you knew about a mafia action...i see no reason you wouldnt say "hey, they tried to convert me." If you were holding onto details to try and clear someone else if they had a similar experience, you are totally ignoring that.

You know what i just realized...and anxiety can confirm this i hope. Only nuetral roles can be converted...thats the mechanism. No good roles have been converted, only nuetral. bsak was a nuetral, as were you. If they tried to convert you, you would turn evil. Since anxiety and i started off good we couldnt be converted...it all makes sense now.

I was holding to the details, and it made me feel better about you and Anxiety. I have been rethinkign that with you, though, because of your obstinateness.

Show me where it says only neutral roles can be converted. I think it says neutral roles can go either way. I don't believe good is immune from mafia influence.

Attempts to convert neutral does not automatically mean you go evil. You're talking out of your ass and don't know a thing about it. You get teh choice to be good or bad. If you choose bad, you go to the mafia, if you choose good, you are good and your goals change. You can also choose not to respond and remain neutral. I chose to become good.

[Blade6119]

By the by chief, i was just looking for something and noticed this...swaggs also cleared me. So both Swaggs(our semi-seer) and lsg(our detective) have both cleared me.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

This is two days in a row that you've said this. And while I don't want to be judge (I could only really perform the duties today because of work), what's the reasoning behind this?

Let's imagine I can help in some way. Then let's imagine I can only do that once for any particular individual. That might be a reason for speculating that anyone except you and Anxiety might be a good choice for judge.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I was holding to the details, and it made me feel better about you and Anxiety. I have been rethinkign that with you, though, because of your obstinateness.

Show me where it says only neutral roles can be converted. I think it says neutral roles can go either way. I don't believe good is immune from mafia influence.

Attempts to convert neutral does not automatically mean you go evil. You're talking out of your ass and don't know a thing about it. You get teh choice to be good or bad. If you choose bad, you go to the mafia, if you choose good, you are good and your goals change. You can also choose not to respond and remain neutral. I chose to become good.

I know now becuase my new role(pawn shop owner) is nuetral. Ill be frank with that, since im now nuetral new information has been revealed to me about the mechanic

[path12]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Like chief pointed out, the rules state the nuetral roles will have a choice of being good or evil. In all 3 of our evil encounters, they offer us a choice. Anxiety and i both got into fights then and there, while chief didnt. Chief didnt have violence against him when he supposedly refused(i was shot at, and i think anxiety was too...i know he was attacked in some way).

Dont you see...he accepted the offer, or at least decided later on that day. He didnt balk right away

Interesting.

Leads me to a question: Does anyone who started out as good have the ability to change jobs?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Exactly...if you are telling the truth about your encounter with mafia you would know they gave us a choice. All 3 of us had the choice of being evil..thats what the rules talk about

Hey look everyone, I have the power to undelrine too!

As for your point, that doesn't make any sense. I stated there was a choice, as did you and Anxiety. That stuff is already out there. We none of us can determine truth from that at this point.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by path12

Let's imagine I can help in some way. Then let's imagine I can only do that once for any particular individual. That might be a reason for speculating that anyone except you and Anxiety might be a good choice for judge.

Gotcha.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by path12

Interesting.

Leads me to a question: Does anyone who started out as good have the ability to change jobs?

Apparently Blade does.

[Abe Sargent]

LSG, with all due respect, and I haven't caught up that much,so maybe you make a statement here somewhere, but you can't choose to Arrest king instead of searching CR and then get upset at me making a decision, in part, on trust of a detective.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by path12

Interesting.

Leads me to a question: Does anyone who started out as good have the ability to change jobs?

I can.

[Blade6119]

Anxiety, can you check..your role is a lot like mine, and it was about 2/3 of the way down my role PM

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I can.

Thanks JE....see chief, i can use smilies too

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

I know now becuase my new role(pawn shop owner) is nuetral. Ill be frank with that, since im now nuetral new information has been revealed to me about the mechanic

You're just making this stuff up as you go along, aren't you? Just come out with anything, huh?

I have had enough. I have to go.

VOTE BLADE

I'm sorry, the stink is just too much. I have good reasons to beleive everyone left except this guy. I think he was converted. And he's likely been mafia for some time.

I hope LSG and SnDvls will go along wiht me on this, but I understand if you don't. The rest of you will just have to decide which way you lean.

See you all tonight.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You're just making this stuff up as you go along, aren't you? Just come out with anything, huh?

I have had enough. I have to go.

VOTE BLADE

I'm sorry, the stink is just too much. I have good reasons to beleive everyone left except this guy. I think he was converted. And he's likely been mafia for some time.

I hope LSG and SnDvls will go along wiht me on this, but I understand if you don't. The rest of you will just have to decide which way you lean.

See you all tonight.

both lsg and swaggs cleared me...so your argument is moot

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Like chief pointed out, the rules state the nuetral roles will have a choice of being good or evil. In all 3 of our evil encounters, they offer us a choice. Anxiety and i both got into fights then and there, while chief didnt. Chief didnt have violence against him when he supposedly refused(i was shot at, and i think anxiety was too...i know he was attacked in some way).

Dont you see...he accepted the offer, or at least decided later on that day. He didnt balk right away

You realize I wasn't right there to refuse the offer right? That I was at my job. I didn't even see it until 2 a.m. And you can understand if I was thinking about the offer--at the time, all of good was being stupid and not listening to a word I said and ready to kill me. Why would I want to join them? Despite that, I listened to my heart instead of my head and went with good.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Thanks JE....see chief, i can use smilies too

Your powers are beyond my comprehension.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You realize I wasn't right there to refuse the offer right? That I was at my job. I didn't even see it until 2 a.m. And you can understand if I was thinking about the offer--at the time, all of good was being stupid and not listening to a word I said and ready to kill me. Why would I want to join them? Despite that, I listened to my heart instead of my head and went with good.

You can try to lie about it how you will, but its clear to me what happened...you got converted then and there. You have to leave, and im not budging on this point.

There is a search warrant out for me, and if they suspect me so much they can check me out. I dont care.

BUT LSG, if you trust me...arrent chief. Then our judge can put him away whether or not we lynch him

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Your powers are beyond my comprehension.

Apparently my arguments are too, but that hasnt stopped this little "debate" that is getting us nowhere

[LoneStarGirl]

blade i never recieved any of the stuff you said you sent me.... I am more than happy to still transfer over the 400 for the bullets and armor, but i wanted to see if you would send them first before i sent money.

also why would bsak rat out his own mafia in sndvls? and sndvls gave me the gun cuz that is what cheif had... the only way i dont believe sndvls is if i dont believe chief... and i tend to believe them the most right now

[LoneStarGirl]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

LSG, with all due respect, and I haven't caught up that much,so maybe you make a statement here somewhere, but you can't choose to Arrest king instead of searching CR and then get upset at me making a decision, in part, on trust of a detective.

but i told you i trusted king. When you arrest somebody or search somebody they automatically get checked through the computer. He came back cleaner than anybody besides JE and you still execute him.

I don't trust you as far as i can through you buddy.

vote anxiety

[LoneStarGirl]

i already used my day action on sndvls...i am through for the day

[LoneStarGirl]

and it was supposed to read 'throw you buddy'

not through

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Anxiety, can you check..your role is a lot like mine, and it was about 2/3 of the way down my role PM

What am I checking for?

[Abe Sargent]

Blade - I'm still interrested in teh gun if LSG didn;t buy it. Did you sell it to someone else?

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

and it was supposed to read 'throw you buddy'

not through

I knew.

Basic rule: don; attack someone's grammar in a WW post where they can;t edit

[Blade6119]

lsg, your making a fatal mistake here...dont blow this.

Chief got saved by the head of the lynch mob, and i promise you he wont again today. Dont be foolish.

As for the items, you were supposed to PM alan asking to buy the items at the prices i listed. I had to, and did, send a PM to alan confirming those prices. When both were sent, he would transfer the funds and items simultaneously...i dont know why you thought i would give you items with no cash, but your misplacing your trust due to sndvls giving you a gun. Dont let it happen.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

What am I checking for?

If you can switch jobs too, although JE already said he could as well so it doesnt mean as much