POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Swaggs]

I would love to hear what Brian's take on the best messaging and policy would be for those five bullet points that he listed.

The one about trans kids in sports is tough one. Do you ban trans from existing? Do you let MtF participate in male sports and FtM participate in female sports? Do you ban trans kids from sports altogether? Sounds like we need some laws and legal challenges to determine these things.

The other four, in my opinion, are not strange to discuss, take positions on, and potentially work on legislation on. If you want to prioritize jobs/profits/stocks (and I don't think those are bad things to prioritize) over the environment, that is a position. I don't think it is a cut and dry position. The same with the rest.

I want to know what he thinks the best messaging is for these things.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

Brian's take on the 'weird' discourse is awfully similar to super weird Matt Walsh's take. That's a logical fallacy of some sort but illustrative of something.

x.com

It’s culture war BS and it’s all they have because once they start discussing policies such as inspecting female high school athletes genitalia they are exposed for just how weird their actual policies are as opposed to someone wanting to live a weird lifestyle that doesn’t effect anyone but them.

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I would love to hear what Brian's take on the best messaging and policy would be for those five bullet points that he listed.

The one about trans kids in sports is tough one. Do you ban trans from existing? Do you let MtF participate in male sports and FtM participate in female sports? Do you ban trans kids from sports altogether? Sounds like we need some laws and legal challenges to determine these things.

The other four, in my opinion, are not strange to discuss, take positions on, and potentially work on legislation on. If you want to prioritize jobs/profits/stocks (and I don't think those are bad things to prioritize) over the environment, that is a position. I don't think it is a cut and dry position. The same with the rest.

I want to know what he thinks the best messaging is for these things.

There was a FtM wrestler that was forced to compete in women's wrestling in Texas a couple years. He dominated. There's some kind of weird misogyny at play in right wing circles where FtM is never considered.

[Passacaglia]

It boggles me that your response to the weirdness of things like this:

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/ne...bound-and-tied

is "Some minorities favor stronger immigration restrictions by strong margins."

[cartman]

Actual quote on air from Jesse Watters, a Fox News host:

And I heard the scientists say the other day that when a man votes for a woman, he actually transitions into a woman.

Can't wait to hear the "both sides" rebuttal to this/

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Lathum

It’s culture war BS and it’s all they have because once they start discussing policies such as inspecting female high school athletes genitalia they are exposed for just how weird their actual policies are as opposed to someone wanting to live a weird lifestyle that doesn’t effect anyone but them.

Not to mention, no democrats are in favor of forcing anyone to DO those things -- it's more of a "live and let live" kind of thing. All the things Republicans are in favor of here involve government intervention. Like ksyrup was saying, so much for the party of personal freedom.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

There was a FtM wrestler that was forced to compete in women's wrestling in Texas a couple years. He dominated. There's some kind of weird misogyny at play in right wing circles where FtM is never considered.

What is FtM?

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

There was a FtM wrestler that was forced to compete in women's wrestling in Texas a couple years. He dominated. There's some kind of weird misogyny at play in right wing circles where FtM is never considered.

I didn't know that, but that is where my thoughts went. It is a complex issue and it is hard for me to come to a conclusion that doesn't lead to someone losing some level of liberty. It either is unfair to allow trans kids to participate or unfair that some physically gifted trans kids are potentially going to dominate which lessens the experience of other kids.

I don't think Dems have done a great job of coming up with any kind of solution or compromise on this. I don't know if there is a good, fair one.

I think most Republicans default to saying that transgender folks should not be able to participate because it is a mental health issue (most mental health experts don't believe this to be the case, but they once did), it isn't fair (it also isn't fair that some kids have personal trainers, dietitians, go to camps, play year round, have better equipment, better coaching, have parents that are willing to drive them and pay money whenever, etc.), or "the Bible says..." or it is morally wrong or "not what God intended" (there are records of transgender folks in nearly every society regardless of culture, even dating back past 2000 years before Christianity existed - plus a lot of folks don't believe in God or don't believe in the same God), or "they can't procreate, so it is wrong" (neither can people above or below a certain age, people with fertility/health issues, etc.).

I truly do think it is a really tough issue and hard to determine what is "fair" with this.

And also, youth sports is not in my top 100 issues to be concerned about since there is inherent inequity with it. Check out high school football fields and coaching salaries in the state of Texas versus those in places like rural WV or Kentucky. In my area, high school sports are almost completely dominated by the kids whose parents had the resources to allow them to play year round sports and go to camps and have private lessons. It is just not something that impacts my life enough to make it a priority, but if we are going to try to make it fair without looking like we are not just picking on trans kids, that could be a slippery slope and traditionally one that conservatives generally don't like (see affirmative action and DEI initiatives).

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Lathum

What is FtM?

Female to male

[Lathum]

The first and probably last time I agree with Matt Walsh and it is telling that he is trying to convince the GOP how stupid they sound attacking cultural icons while having Hulk Hogan introduce Trump at the RNC.

Apparently, Kid Rock, Kevin Sorbo and Hulk Hogan aren’t getting it done so they may have to try to talk about policy. Bummer. pic.twitter.com/vFl2BURBCO

— Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) July 31, 2024

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by HerRealName

There was a FtM wrestler that was forced to compete in women's wrestling in Texas a couple years. He dominated. There's some kind of weird misogyny at play in right wing circles where FtM is never considered.

Interesting and makes sense

It is pretty amazing how the GOP has convinced huge swaths of people boys are playing in girls sports is some widespread problem while the infant mortality rate skyrockets but everything is fine.

[thesloppy]

Even if there was some group of hypothetical voters that are absolutely fine with the GoP slinging hate at full volume for 7 years, but will be offended by the Dems playing any kind of offense for 3 months (there isn't), those dozens of hypocrites surely shouldn't be who the Dems tailor their campaign towards.

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Lathum

as opposed to someone wanting to live a weird lifestyle that doesn’t effect anyone but them.

My transgender daughter does have a weird lifestyle. I don't really understand it. It seems like it just makes her life harder, when her life was already unusually hard because of her autism. She was already socially isolated to a large degree, and being transgender cost her some of her few friends. Someone explained it to me as you're never going to understand why they want to be a female, but as long as you accept it and support them, then things are fine. She's happier as a girl. We accept and support her as best we can.

As for the former boys competing against girls, that doesn't seem fair to me. There's no great solution. But maybe, at the end of the day, sports aren't all that important. I feel like the "fairest" solution is to compete against boys, but I realize that's not a happy situation for the transgender girl who wants to be regarded like other females. It's tricky for sure.

[larrymcg421]

These AP-NORC Favorable/Unfavorable polls are interesting...

Biden - 42/54
Kamala - 46/47
Trump - 41/57
Vance - 27/40

[thesloppy]

I struggle with the suggestion that savvy male athletes are going to transition to female in order to succeed in the highly lucrative and popular world of women's sports.

[Atocep]

The trans athletes thing is a difficult and complex issue that always ignores the FtM. All trans issues ignore FtM. Bathrooms are the best one because these parents crying over a male being in their daighters restroom would absolutely not want someone with a full beard in that restroom, but thats what theyre asking for.

I don't pretend to have all the answers on sports stuff. IMO at the college, Olympic, and professional levels I get wanting to "get it right" Below that, however, I don't get the obsession. There aren't enough trans athletes and the high school and below level isn't serious enough for bans, legislation, and political interference. West Virginia has a case over middle school tack that's been ongoing. Middle school track in WV isn't that serious.

The counter I always see is someone asking what they're supposed to tell their kid if they don't make the team because of a trans athlete getting a spot. You tell them the same thing if anyone else had that spot. It's not difficult.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Kodos

My transgender daughter does have a weird lifestyle. I don't really understand it. It seems like it just makes her life harder, when her life was already unusually hard because of her autism. She was already socially isolated to a large degree, and being transgender cost her some of her few friends. Someone explained it to me as you're never going to understand why they want to be a female, but as long as you accept it and support them, then things are fine. She's happier as a girl. We accept and support her as best we can.

As for the former boys competing against girls, that doesn't seem fair to me. There's no great solution. But maybe, at the end of the day, sports aren't all that important. I feel like the "fairest" solution is to compete against boys, but I realize that's not a happy situation for the transgender girl who wants to be regarded like other females. It's tricky for sure.

Just to clarify when I say weird I don’t mean I personally judge them as weird. I’m very much a live and let live.

[dubb93]

Not weird at all to say.

Trump - “If you’re Jewish, if you vote for a Democrat, you’re a fool. An absolute fool.”

[Kodos]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Just to clarify when I say weird I don’t mean I personally judge them as weird. I’m very much a live and let live.

Don't worry. I wasn't offended.

My feeling for a long time has been if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, have at it.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Kodos

My feeling for a long time has been if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, have at it.

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept. What is a rational mindset against this mindset?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Rainmaker referenced obsession with your kids genitals, but who is really obsessed with that? From a certain point of view, that would be the people who think it's perfectly fine and even something to be encouraged for those under the age of consent to have medical procedures of a gender transition nature.

It's been arguably the single biggest issue for Republican politicians over the last half decade. Laws have been passed in a number of states and it's a core position of the party. There are politicians and pundits that have made it their entire life's work.

To me, that's weird. I've never given much thought to my trips to a public restroom. Mostly just avoid eye contact, do my business, and get out as quick as I can. I'm not terribly concerned with the genitalia of the person taking a dump in the stall next to mine. I also don't obsess over other people's body choices or what medical decisions they make for their own children.

[Atocep]

Ohio wanted to inspect the genitals of any child athlete accused of being trangender. It was removed from their bill after backlash. In Kansas the trangender sports ban leaves the door open to genital inspections.

This isn't just made up hysteria. It's things GOP states are trying and want to pass.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Kodos

As for the former boys competing against girls, that doesn't seem fair to me. There's no great solution. But maybe, at the end of the day, sports aren't all that important. I feel like the "fairest" solution is to compete against boys, but I realize that's not a happy situation for the transgender girl who wants to be regarded like other females. It's tricky for sure.

This is where I land. I don't think there's a good solution. But I think the tricky thing for Dems is they shoved the "just trust the science!" stuff down conservatives' throats for the Covid (and all anti-vaxx) responses, yet seem to ignore the obvious physiological differences between males and females. This isn't some sort of "anti-empowerment" take, it's just a scientific fact - males are physically the more dominant of the two sexes.

I feel like the liberal position on trans in sports is their version of the conservative position on religion in school. You force the 10 Commandments and Christmas trees on a school and suddenly you've invited Satanists and other pagan religions you'd never want to expose your kids to, to put up their own displays. Likewise, you blur the lines between the sexes for school sports, and suddenly a court rules there's no gender differences any more and you've obliterated the principal reason for separating boys and girls sports.

[whomario]

Don't really want to disrupt the ongoing discussion but ...

Trump currently being interviewed by Rachel Scott at the National Association of Black Journalists and let's just say is that this isn't an environment where his vague collection of buzzwords, instinctual disdain and non-answers swirled about in washing machine routine is going over well.

Trump: I did not know she was Black until a number of years ago, when she happened to turn Black, and now she wants to be known as Black. Is she Indian or is she Black? pic.twitter.com/DIVy0mQL3I

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 31, 2024

[RainMaker]

The funniest part is they are asking him tough questions and then when it gets to the Fox News lady, she's like "What makes you so great?".

[Mota]

He sounds like the racist grandma.
"Oh, did you see the colored person on TV? They still call them colored, right?"

[Lathum]

Holy shit trump is bombing this so hard and giving the Harris campaign the best gift they could get.

Just saw a clip where moderator basically asks Trump why he is hostile and critical towards blacks and his response was to insult her and the question.

His zealots won’t admit it but this is Biden debate level dysfunction.

[Lathum]

x.com

[HerRealName]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is where I land. I don't think there's a good solution. But I think the tricky thing for Dems is they shoved the "just trust the science!" stuff down conservatives' throats for the Covid (and all anti-vaxx) responses, yet seem to ignore the obvious physiological differences between males and females. This isn't some sort of "anti-empowerment" take, it's just a scientific fact - males are physically the more dominant of the two sexes.

I feel like the liberal position on trans in sports is their version of the conservative position on religion in school. You force the 10 Commandments and Christmas trees on a school and suddenly you've invited Satanists and other pagan religions you'd never want to expose your kids to, to put up their own displays. Likewise, you blur the lines between the sexes for school sports, and suddenly a court rules there's no gender differences any more and you've obliterated the principal reason for separating boys and girls sports.

There is likely 100x less of a physiological disadvantage between the average woman basketball player and the average trans girl than there was between LeBron James and my cousin when they played in High School.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by whomario

Don't really want to disrupt the ongoing discussion but ...

Trump currently being interviewed by Rachel Scott at the National Association of Black Journalists and let's just say is that this isn't an environment where his vague collection of buzzwords, instinctual disdain and non-answers swirled about in washing machine routine is going over well.

Trump: I did not know she was Black until a number of years ago, when she happened to turn Black, and now she wants to be known as Black. Is she Indian or is she Black? pic.twitter.com/DIVy0mQL3I

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 31, 2024

AHAHAHAHA

[Lathum]

Trump just told a room of black journalists migrants are going to take their jobs. Apparently that was the straw and the Trump team called off the interview. Absolute implosion.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept. What is a rational mindset against this mindset?

"The children! Won't some one think of the children!"



The fear they play on is that if their snowflake knows someone that is trans, then their snowflake will want to be trans. That the reason for the "don't say gay" bill as well. If no one says gay, then their children will never be gay. They consider it a contagious disease.
Of course the other factor that make it such a violently hot subject is that too many of those straight he-men see a trans-woman, it she makes his little pee-pee feel funny. That in his mind makes him gay, and big he-man can't be gay, so he must bash her to stop the gayness.

[Ksyrup]

I wish to personally express my sincerest gratitude to whomever it is on the Trump campaign who convinced Trump it was a good idea to have him appear before the @NABJ. Whoever you are, you are a true patriot, and your country is in your debt.

— George Conway (@gtconway3d) July 31, 2024

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Trump just told a room of black journalists migrants are going to take their jobs. Apparently that was the straw and the Trump team called off the interview. Absolute implosion.

I'm watching it now...this is amazing. Just a weird pathetic man.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

"The children! Won't some one think of the children!"



.

💯 this while they send their kids off to get molested by the Catholic Church.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Qwikshot

I'm watching it now...this is amazing. Just a weird pathetic man.

It was a weird decision by his team to do it, but it was also a very weird decision to invite him. The same people that brought him there wouldn't work out a way for the Vice President to do a video chat with the group since her schedule didn't allow her to go. There was a number of members of the board of the organization that stepped down over it, and really does seem like someone in the upper levels of that group was trying to help Trump out. Of course it backfired tremendously. It won't surprise me that we later learn there was some kind of inducement that the Trump people gave someone in the group for this opportunity, and that will make it all the more funny.

[Atocep]

I was reading some of the Q&A and it's an unmitigated disaster. Compared himself to Lincoln, said Kamala turned black a few years ago, said the VP isn't important when asked if JD Vance would be ready on day one to potentially step in as President, said he would pardon J6 rioters, and doubled down on migrants stealing black jobs.

Trump, at the last minute refused to take the stage if he was live fact checked. That caused a delay getting it started which he then went out and blamed on NABJ audio issues. Then the Q&A was cut short, reportedly by his campaign
And of course after it was over he went on truth social and called the questions rude and nasty.

[GrantDawg]

The number of people that are just totally befuddled by the idea that Kamala Harris can be black AND Indian is just amazing. Or at least it would be if it just wasn't just clearly racist.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Trump just told a room of black journalists migrants are going to take their jobs. Apparently that was the straw and the Trump team called off the interview. Absolute implosion.

i totally think they should just move on to the planned parenthood/abortion rights convention and strike while the iron is hot!

[Atocep]

Trump is so out of his element any time he has to speak in a situation he can't control.

Of course Fox News is calling this a set up.

[Atocep]

I'm old enough to remember when Trump was all about unity.

[larrymcg421]

Harris has overtaken Trump on PredictIt. Exactly two weeks ago he was at 68%. First time Trump has trailed since June 7.

[cuervo72]

.@cnn .@msnbc .@nbc .@cbs .@abc .@maddow

Here is the story you need to run!

Trump just childishly tightened a black female journalist's water due to her hard questions!

Please don't let this not be covered! pic.twitter.com/pa37a5wQZX

— ����Repost/Like/Comment (@remy2cents) July 31, 2024

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is where I land. I don't think there's a good solution. But I think the tricky thing for Dems is they shoved the "just trust the science!" stuff down conservatives' throats for the Covid (and all anti-vaxx) responses, yet seem to ignore the obvious physiological differences between males and females. This isn't some sort of "anti-empowerment" take, it's just a scientific fact - males are physically the more dominant of the two sexes.

I feel like the liberal position on trans in sports is their version of the conservative position on religion in school. You force the 10 Commandments and Christmas trees on a school and suddenly you've invited Satanists and other pagan religions you'd never want to expose your kids to, to put up their own displays. Likewise, you blur the lines between the sexes for school sports, and suddenly a court rules there's no gender differences any more and you've obliterated the principal reason for separating boys and girls sports.

I understand the argument about competitiveness, but I guess I'm wondering how big of an issue this really is. It seems like a major political party is building their platform around something that is maybe like 20 high school students around the country. I'm not seeing some influx of transgender women dominating sports around the country.

And it's fair to wonder just how concerned they really are. These are people who have just bashed women's sports for decades and tried to defund. I'm supposed to believe they are suddenly concerned about a competitive advantage at some local high school volleyball game?

It just seems like an excuse to fetishize hate against people who are different and act out their own sexual and gender insecurities.

[RainMaker]

Good lord he is shook.

The Trump campaign is projecting this on the screen above the stage at his rally in Harrisburg PA: pic.twitter.com/ZsGHAZaruk

— Olivia Nuzzi (@Olivianuzzi) July 31, 2024

[Lathum]

Stuff like this is just stupid and reinforces the weirdness. Every single person in that arena is voting for him already.

[Passacaglia]

I'm going to have to start wearing my "Make Racism Wrong Again" hat...again.

[RainMaker]

Trying to shake the weird label by shifting the campaign to discussing race science.

[RainMaker]

Uhhhhh...maybe they are just going to run on the race stuff.

Habba: Unlike you Kamala, I know who my roots are and where I come from pic.twitter.com/DMpdu2h861

— Acyn (@Acyn) July 31, 2024

[Swaggs]

Such an odd choice to have your personal lawyer (of several lost cases) giving a stump speech for you when you are running for the president of the United States. I wonder if his realtor and therapist declined.