The Trump Presidency – 2016

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

At this point he has to be trying to lose? I mean, he is pandering to his shrinking base and doubling down. Not even trying to appeal to a bigger group.

Or you're secure in the knowledge that the only way you're going to win is fixing the ballot boxes so do whatever you want because it doesn't matter anyway

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

More like "Don't like politics we don't agree with", neh?

Let's be fair. It is politics that we don't agree with. But it is also "politics that I am not used to seeing here."

I watch a lot of sports. And American sports have always had a cozy relationship with conservative politics--so much so that you don't even really notice it. So it is a bit jarring to start seeing politics from the left get into sports.

I used to attend a decent amount of live theater. And theater has had a cozy relationship with left-wing politics, so much so that you don't even really notice it. And I am pretty sure that if a theater got a huge sponsorship from the NRA, you would see a lot of theatergoers threaten boycotts, etc. and generally be against "politics getting into theater"--even as they had sat through various programs for "HIV Awareness" and the like over the years without even realizing that they were political (because when you agree with something, it does not feel political).

So even though I agree with the direction the NFL is moving, I have sympathy for people for whom it feel very jarring and wrong and "political" in a way that sports has not seemed in the past.

[SirFozzie]

it's all he knows. I think that's one of the things that made COVID-19 the thing that is dragging Trump down when so many other things could have.

All the other things, he could make about other people.

"Those women are lying"
"The Democrats are persecuting me"
"The Fake News Media is twisting things"

He could create a bubble that people who wanted to believe (that women were lying, that the democrats were just playing politics as usual, that the "Fake news media" just was making up shit to get ratings.) It was comforting to folks to believe the alternative reality Trump made, so they decided to do it

COVID? As the old presidential sign said, "The buck stops here" (and here is the president's desk). As much as he wants to make it about other people, COVID-19 doesn't give a fuck about President Trump. It just wants to spread. So this becomes the moment that people can no longer believe the fantasy.

(It doesn't help that he doesn't have sports or other things to try to distract people with)

[bronconick]

Originally Posted by Lathum

At this point he has to be trying to lose? I mean, he is pandering to his shrinking base and doubling down. Not even trying to appeal to a bigger group.

Outside his 40% base, all he had was the economy being in good shape and he always was trying to repeat his inside straight in the Electoral College. If the economy is down and out for the rest of 2020, he has no backup plan aside from trying to kick off a race war that would draw the suburbs back.

[albionmoonlight]

NASDAQ HITS ALL TIME HIGH!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 6, 2020

[kingfc22]

Would love to see demographics on what percentage of his core base has significant savings, investments, etc that would be benefitting off the stock market in a truly meaningful way.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Would love to see demographics on what percentage of his core base has significant savings, investments, etc that would be benefitting off the stock market in a truly meaningful way.

Honestly, probably a decent amount.

People describe Trump's base as "working class," but that does not really mean "poor."

For all of the image of Trump's voters as out-of-work coal miners, it is really more car salesmen and the like--people who do likely have a personal stake in the market.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 6, 2020

At this point, I think it's even money that he complains that blacks can say the n word while whites can't.

He is angry that the Trump 2020 car got wrecked on pit row in yesterday’s race and finished 39th out of 40. And the Fox did not give the car barely a mention.

[bronconick]

#SCOTUS's last *two* opinions for the day, handed down simultaneously, are in the "faithless elector" cases:

Short version: "A State may enforce an elector’s pledge to support his party’s nominee—and the state voters’ choice—for President."

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by lungs

He is angry that the Trump 2020 car got wrecked on pit row in yesterday’s race and finished 39th out of 40. And the Fox did not give the car barely a mention.

Well, the race was on NBC, so...

That does make a lot of sense as to why he was weighing in on something that happened 2 weeks ago.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by bronconick

#SCOTUS's last *two* opinions for the day, handed down simultaneously, are in the "faithless elector" cases:

Short version: "A State may enforce an elector’s pledge to support his party’s nominee—and the state voters’ choice—for President."

9-0 decision as well.

[henry296]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Would love to see demographics on what percentage of his core base has significant savings, investments, etc that would be benefitting off the stock market in a truly meaningful way.

I wouldn't call them his base, but wealthier Americans tend to be Republican.

This exit poll data shows Trump winning with voters who make over $50K / year and in all buckets from 50-100, 100-200, 200-250 and 250+. For many of these people stock market returns might be an important issue.

• Election 2016 exit polls: votes by income | Statista

[lungs]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well, the race was on NBC, so...

That does make a lot of sense as to why he was weighing in on something that happened 2 weeks ago.

Oops, that’s right! No wonder they didn’t mention the car because NBC is the media wing of the DNC.

I will admit, I had a smile when the nose of that car got crumpled up. Karma paid me back later when Newman hit the wall and screwed me in my pool.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Lathum

At this point he has to be trying to lose? I mean, he is pandering to his shrinking base and doubling down. Not even trying to appeal to a bigger group.

The only thing I can figure is that he's trying to rile up his fan base to revolt against NASCAR and force them to pull back on what they've done. I think he's sensing some shrugged shoulders and apathy from the NASCAR crowd as this "controversy" has faded away. I wonder if this is telling sign that he's concerned about keeping his biggest supporters engaged (through outrage), nevermind trying to pull new supporters.

I still think the best chance the GOP in general has to get some momentum back (outside of Biden screwing up) is the monuments/American heroes thing. McConnell has gone all-in on that, running ads here in KY that don't even talk about McGrath or the Senate race, just the movement to wipe out history of Jefferson, Washington, etc. If anything could possibly play in the suburbs, that's the issue. But I don't know how or why that would offset the rest of the dumpster fire.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Would love to see demographics on what percentage of his core base has significant savings, investments, etc that would be benefitting off the stock market in a truly meaningful way.

[albionmoonlight]

The problem is the term "working class" is vague and broad to the point of being unhelpful.

Is a guy who started his own landscaping business from scratch, and now makes $250,000 a year and has multiple employees and owns a lot of equipment and spends most of his time managing and marketing, but will still get out there and shovel dirt a "working class" guy?

Is the paralegal at a corporate law firm who makes $35,000 a year "working class"?

How high to you have to rise up at Burger King to no longer be working class? Assistant manager? Manager? Regional manager?

It's this kind of economic/cultural thing that we all sort of understand what it is. But when you think about it, it is also pretty hard to pin down just what it is--even as we all agree that the "working class" vote is important.

[Edward64]

Admittedly this is dated as its from 2016, but the gist is

The Mythology Of Trump’s ‘Working Class’ Support | FiveThirtyEight

It’s been extremely common for news accounts to portray Donald Trump’s candidacy as a “working-class” rebellion against Republican elites. There are elements of truth in this perspective: Republican voters, especially Trump supporters, are unhappy about the direction of the economy. Trump voters have lower incomes than supporters of John Kasich or Marco Rubio. And things have gone so badly for the Republican “establishment” that the party may be facing an existential crisis.

But the definition of “working class” and similar terms is fuzzy, and narratives like these risk obscuring an important and perhaps counterintuitive fact about Trump’s voters: As compared with most Americans, Trump’s voters are better off. The median household income of a Trump voter so far in the primaries is about $72,000, based on estimates derived from exit polls and Census Bureau data. That’s lower than the $91,000 median for Kasich voters. But it’s well above the national median household income of about $56,000. It’s also higher than the median income for Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders supporters, which is around $61,000 for both.

My guess is many (not sure about majority) have benefited from the stock market rise.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by lungs

Oops, that’s right! No wonder they didn’t mention the car because NBC is the media wing of the DNC.

I will admit, I had a smile when the nose of that car got crumpled up. Karma paid me back later when Newman hit the wall and screwed me in my pool.

Oh, and here is Tyler Reddick's (odds on favorite for Rookie of the Year) response:

https://twitter.com/tylerreddick/sta...40451652272128

[Thomkal]

::: sighs at the Supreme Court::: I know that the decisions are important to some people, but people on both sides want the Trump Tax Returns verdicts already, stop making us wait

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

::: sighs at the Supreme Court::: I know that the decisions are important to some people, but people on both sides want the Trump Tax Returns verdicts already, stop making us wait

They'll likely issue that on the last day of the term and then skedaddle, as they sometimes tend to with hot button issues.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, and here is Tyler Reddick's (odds on favorite for Rookie of the Year) response:

https://twitter.com/tylerreddick/sta...40451652272128

That's stellar, I am still not a huge racing fan, but I am watching NASCAR now just to support it and I am finding myself enjoying it more than I thought.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Sure, most countries have X years requirement to be citizen but being a permanent resident (or equivalent) is easier.

Canada is merit based immigration. It actually is one of the easier countries to emigrate to. Admittedly it may have changed but I looked into it back in the 00's, answered the questions, and scored enough points.

FWIW, most countries would not accept illegals and making them legal en masse. They rather have the skills or $.

Canada already takes in more immigrants than the US per year, and has about 8% of the population. So it is likely far easier to immigrate to Canada.
I think they are planning another increase from about 330,000 immigrants per year to 400,000 per year. The largest portion is the merit based immigration, but there also is a small family reunification program and a refugee program which have different rules.

[Thomkal]

Good couple of days for environmentalists:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/enviro...rcing-shutdown

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I know that the decisions are important to some people, but people on both sides want the Trump Tax Returns verdicts already, stop making us wait

Dunno, I care about SCOTUS far more than the average person and I couldn't care less what the say about Trump's tax returns. I also don't know a single person off these forums, including the politically-minded ones, who does. I just don't see the relevance at this point.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, and here is Tyler Reddick's (odds on favorite for Rookie of the Year) response:

https://twitter.com/tylerreddick/sta...40451652272128

That page doesn't exist (Tweet deleted?)

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Dunno, I care about SCOTUS far more than the average person and I couldn't care less what the say about Trump's tax returns. I also don't know a single person off these forums, including the politically-minded ones, who does. I just don't see the relevance at this point.

My sarcasm meter is malfunctioning this morning, so I'm not sure if you meant this or were being sarcastic

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Radii

That page doesn't exist (Tweet deleted?)

Huh, I guess so (maybe Childress talked to him), though he retweeted the following:

https://twitter.com/bobpockrass/stat...32782421925891

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by Mota

Canada already takes in more immigrants than the US per year, and has about 8% of the population. So it is likely far easier to immigrate to Canada.
I think they are planning another increase from about 330,000 immigrants per year to 400,000 per year. The largest portion is the merit based immigration, but there also is a small family reunification program and a refugee program which have different rules.

I think Canada does it better than the US and have the luxury of geography. Merit based is the way to go with some allocations to family/refugee. I suspect if Canada had a porous border with an illegal immigration challenge, there would be a backlash also.

Douglas Todd: Canada vs U.S. on immigration: Five differences, five similarities | Vancouver Sun

Contrary to conventional thinking, it could be argued the U.S. system is more “compassionate” than Canada’s. Almost seven in 10 of those who settle lawfully in the U.S. are close relatives of previous immigrants. Each U.S. immigrant on average sponsors 3.5 family members.

Canada, meanwhile, restricts “family reunification” immigrants to about one in five. Canada mostly picks immigrants to boost economic expansion. Two of three immigrants are brought in because of their skills and education. Trump’s plan, created by son-in-law Jared Kushner, copies Canada’s reasoning.

[Coffee Warlord]

Gotta generate that new outrage when they discover that gasp, people with money hire an army of tax people to minimize their tax bills. Amazing!

Yet there will be a subset of people who think this is somehow new.

I often wonder how many of the ultra-rich actually pay more to tax accountants than they'd actually owe in taxes.

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Dunno, I care about SCOTUS far more than the average person and I couldn't care less what the say about Trump's tax returns. I also don't know a single person off these forums, including the politically-minded ones, who does. I just don't see the relevance at this point.

I do because I want to find out if he’s a bigger fucking fraud than I already know he is.

[Brian Swartz]

Not being sarcastic at all. I can't imagine anything being found in there that convinces someone to vote or not vote from Trump, or even that should arguably do so, compared to what we already know.

[albionmoonlight]

The tax returns could have done two things

(1) Convince some Trump voters to move from Trump.
(2) Give GOP politicians cover to break from Trump based on "new information."

It is pretty clear now that both Trump's voters and GOP politicians are with him for the long haul.

It reminds me of the Dennis Leary bit about making the warnings on the cigarette packages bigger. What smoker is going to pick up a pack with a bigger warning and say "Wait, these things are bad for you?" What voter is going to see the tax returns and say, "Wait, you mean Trump is shady and in lots of debt?" We all know already.

At this point, people have decided that Trump is corrupt or that he is not corrupt or that they don't care whether he is corrupt.

Finding out that he took out a bunch of loans from Russian mobsters (or whatever will be in there) isn't going to change anyone's mind or vote.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Radii

That page doesn't exist (Tweet deleted?)

Must have been, probably at NASCAR's request. I looked at right before I posted on it.

[Comey]

I don't think the tax findings are about the vote at all, but purely from a standpoint of finding any illegal activity. People made up their minds about his tax stuff long ago (myself included). At this stage, though, it's more for authorities than any voters.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Comey

I don't think the tax findings are about the vote at all, but purely from a standpoint of finding any illegal activity. People made up their minds about his tax stuff long ago (myself included). At this stage, though, it's more for authorities than any voters.

Not just that, but solidifying that Congress has the right to investigate and subpoena these things. That's a bigger principle at play here.

[molson]

I never believed Trump would include evidence of his crimes on his tax returns.

I think he's probably just embarrassed not to be as rich as he claims.

[NobodyHere]

Isn't he done being audited yet? Wasn't that his reason for not releasing his tax returns?

In regards to crimes, wouldn't the IRS have caught any illegal activity?

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by molson

I never believed Trump would include evidence of his crimes on his tax returns.

I think he's probably just embarrassed not to be as rich as he claims.

Knowing his fragile ego I agree this is likely his biggest reason for pushback.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Would love to see demographics on what percentage of his core base has significant savings, investments, etc that would be benefitting off the stock market in a truly meaningful way.

My parents are a perfect example. Older, retired, and scared to death their 401K will plummet with a Dem in power and thrilled (up until Covid) with the performance of the stock market under Trump. That's all I hear is how great he is for the stock market. If the market tanks and stays down, I could be forced to bail my parents out in 5 years because that's their retirement.

I'm sure they are not alone.

[Jas_lov]

Not that the President has much to do with it but I wonder where the perception comes from that a Dem will crash the market. Both Clinton and Obama presided over a recovering economy. The market tanked under Bush and now Trump.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

Not that the President has much to do with it but I wonder where the perception comes from that a Dem will crash the market. Both Clinton and Obama presided over a recovering economy. The market tanked under Bush and now Trump.

Fox News

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Not just that, but solidifying that Congress has the right to investigate and subpoena these things. That's a bigger principle at play here.

This and what others said. By now everyone's mind pretty much made up on who they are going to vote for in 2020. He's held his tax returns, Mueller Grand Jury reports, etc hostage for four years now. He needs to be shown no is above the law. And then if Biden is elected, a federal law created so no one can do this again.

[Lathum]

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...008303616?s=21

[JPhillips]

His sister resigned her judge position so that she wouldn't have to explain possible tax fraud and Trump has been shown to overvalue his. assets for loans and undervalue them for tax assessments. He's almost certainly guilty of tax fraud, though I would be shocked if he's ever charged.

His tax documents might also show how much of his money is connected to organized crime figures.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Knowing his fragile ego I agree this is likely his biggest reason for pushback.

Yeah, there has long been speculation that he isn't close to being a billionaire. He's been trying to blunt that for a while.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

His sister resigned her judge position so that she wouldn't have to explain possible tax fraud and Trump has been shown to overvalue his. assets for loans and undervalue them for tax assessments. He's almost certainly guilty of tax fraud, though I would be shocked if he's ever charged.

His tax documents might also show how much of his money is connected to organized crime figures.

This. A IRS audit wouldn't pull up fraud, because they would not look at loan applications. It would be up to a local or federal prosecutor to make that connection. Which is why they want his tax returns.

[PilotMan]

No shocker, but his hard right turn down the alley of deep south/culture war/full on kkk, probably isn't going to get him where he needs to be come November. I still can't believe that Republicans of all people are the ones that are carrying the litter for this fucking asshole. I think it's plainly obvious that circumstantial evidence available to the public shows that he's not only committed blatant tax fraud, but also used NY real estate to launder money. In fact, I'd bet that the Kushners are also heavily involved in that. He's the king of accusing people of the very things that he does regularly. He's a horrible human being, a useless sack of shit, and deserves to spend the rest of his life in misery.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

No shocker, but his hard right turn down the alley of deep south/culture war/full on kkk, probably isn't going to get him where he needs to be come November.

It's still nuts that Trump is doubling down on this. Not even trying to expand his base in the slightest. Even in the face of terrible polling for him.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

No shocker, but his hard right turn down the alley of deep south/culture war/full on kkk, probably isn't going to get him where he needs to be come November. I still can't believe that Republicans of all people are the ones that are carrying the litter for this fucking asshole. I think it's plainly obvious that circumstantial evidence available to the public shows that he's not only committed blatant tax fraud, but also used NY real estate to launder money. In fact, I'd bet that the Kushners are also heavily involved in that. He's the king of accusing people of the very things that he does regularly. He's a horrible human being, a useless sack of shit, and deserves to spend the rest of his life in misery.

But other than that, what do you really think of him?

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Lathum

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/...008303616?s=21

Has @BubbaWallace apologized to all of those great NASCAR drivers & officials who came to his aid, stood by his side, & were willing to sacrifice everything for him, only to find out that the whole thing was just another HOAX? That & Flag decision has caused lowest ratings EVER!

Imagine the President of the United States personally attacking and trying to bully a private citizen of his country. That alone should be enough to be utterly despicable, never mind the fucking loaded circumstances he is utterly ignoring to make a play for personal gain.
Future historians will argue if those were genuine or if there was a mixup a couple hundred years ago when transferring the Internet data to whatever else came next.

(Never mind that even the lowest Ratings (EVER!!!) bit is ridiculous, considering all sports i looked at that have restarted are struggling with that, german cup final f.e. had 30% less than any in recent years despite pretty shitty weather even and no public viewing)