The Trump Presidency – 2016

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I showed this to a guy I work with who hates Trump but his family love him, and he sent it to them and the comments back were that it looked staged and that Daily Show and Klepper are Marxists.

So they have never been to a rally I take it

[sterlingice]

So very symbolic: "You commoners, zealots, and peons can gather and risk your lives while we testify (no, not here of course) from afar about how safe things are"

The Texas GOP is moving forward with its in-person convention in Houston next week with one adjustment: Texas Republican leaders, including Gov. Greg Abbott, will give their speeches virtually.Texas Republicans' in-person Houston convention will have video speeches | The Texas Tribune
— Texas Tribune (@TexasTribune) July 7, 2020

SI

[cartman]

Virtual for me but not for thee

[Ksyrup]

Japan’s theme parks have banned screaming on roller coasters because it spreads coronavirus. “Please scream inside your heart.”

[QuikSand]

prols

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Japan’s theme parks have banned screaming on roller coasters because it spreads coronavirus. “Please scream inside your heart.”

I have been since November 2016, so I guess I'm ahead of the game...

[cartman]

Houston mayor canceled the contract for the Texas GOP convention.

Coronavirus in Texas: Houston cancels contract GOP convention - News - Austin American-Statesman - Austin, TX

[Jstraub]

Originally Posted by Noop

Lol. These people are pure nutter butters.

I pretty much agree which is why I almost crapped myself when I saw one of the people interviewed was my FULL BLOOD aunt.

[QuikSand]

Strong insinuations from the VP today that if/when the feds get around to doing a next thing to respond to covid, there will be strings attached to "encourage" states to fully open schools.

I hope this tempers over time (likely?) but... I know this thread is full of outrage and all, but WTAF

[QuikSand]

(the best assembly of this, I guess, is that they're realizing there's an impossible conundrum of child care looming, and shoving kids back into schools, safe or not, is the only hope for "the economy" to help win the election)

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by cartman

Houston mayor canceled the contract for the Texas GOP convention.

Coronavirus in Texas: Houston cancels contract GOP convention - News - Austin American-Statesman - Austin, TX

You know, as much as I shit on Republicans in this thread, here are local party leaders putting health ahead of optics. Good for them.

[ISiddiqui]

The Mayor of Houston is a Democrat though.

[JPhillips]

Most days I can go through things and not let it get me angry. Today, though, after reading a college friend's long Facebook post on not wearing masks, and chipped vaccines, and forced abortions, etc. and then the evening news showing the overwhelmed medical professionals in TX and AZ, I just got blind with rage.

Where the fuck is the federal government? I would have never imagined that a President would just let people die.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Most days I can go through things and not let it get me angry. Today, though, after reading a college friend's long Facebook post on not wearing masks, and chipped vaccines, and forced abortions, etc. and then the evening news showing the overwhelmed medical professionals in TX and AZ, I just got blind with rage.

Where the fuck is the federal government? I would have never imagined that a President would just let people die.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Most days I can go through things and not let it get me angry. Today, though, after reading a college friend's long Facebook post on not wearing masks, and chipped vaccines, and forced abortions, etc. and then the evening news showing the overwhelmed medical professionals in TX and AZ, I just got blind with rage.

Despite the fact that I've devoted most of my professional life to it, I think I've decided at this point that the internet was a mistake.

Or maybe it was just social media.

In any event, when we removed the internal content editor (necessarily required by the amount of work it took to formulate, develop the technical skills to execute and publish, thus winnowing down our communications to those we deemed the most important) we essentially turned our culture into a bar room brawl where any drunk asshole was empowered to say whatever they wanted and imagine there were no consequences.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Drake

Despite the fact that I've devoted most of my professional life to it, I think I've decided at this point that the internet was a mistake.

Or maybe it was just social media.

In any event, when we removed the internal content editor (necessarily required by the amount of work it took to formulate, develop the technical skills to execute and publish, thus winnowing down our communications to those we deemed the most important) we essentially turned our culture into a bar room brawl where any drunk asshole was empowered to say whatever they wanted and imagine there were no consequences.

Yup, this is certainly something I'm not qualified or smart enough to really speak on, but I'm pretty sure the way our brains and societies have evolved are really not meant for us to be able to instantly communicate with and get the opinions of the loudest and most opinionated members of our species from all over the world. It's like we've always been tribal and territorial assholes, but now instead of being an asshole with some of the 50 people you might come in contact with in your average week, you can do it instantly to try to reach millions and almost always zero consequences.

I'm a massive pessimist, but this gets me more down than most topics.

[thesloppy]

Yeah, similarly, I remember when the early promise of the 'information highway' was kind of built around the idea of all of the best and most creative people being able to suddenly share their best ideas, and we'd have like this smorgasbord of incredible unique cultures to choose from at any time...but instead it turned out to be a massive echo chamber that actively stifles unique cultures & thinking in favor of recycling whatever appeals to the lowest common denominator.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Drake

Despite the fact that I've devoted most of my professional life to it, I think I've decided at this point that the internet was a mistake.

Or maybe it was just social media.

In any event, when we removed the internal content editor (necessarily required by the amount of work it took to formulate, develop the technical skills to execute and publish, thus winnowing down our communications to those we deemed the most important) we essentially turned our culture into a bar room brawl where any drunk asshole was empowered to say whatever they wanted and imagine there were no consequences.

Agreed, although I do distinguish between the internet and social media. Facebook, Twitter (especially Twitter) are the root of current toxic and aggressive politics and society IMHO

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

but I'm pretty sure the way our brains and societies have evolved are really not meant for us to be able to instantly communicate with and get the opinions of the loudest and most opinionated members of our species from all over the world. It's like we've always been tribal and territorial assholes, but now instead of being an asshole with some of the 50 people you might come in contact with in your average week, you can do it instantly to try to reach millions and almost always zero consequences.

This is just one of the many ways in which the world is drastically changing. I disagree with Drake that it means the internet was a mistake. I don't think social media changed us; I think it revealed who we already were more clearly. It's basically a magnifier, but it magnifies not just the assholes but also those who are not. There's a lot of good that gets done and learning that happens that just couldn't be done without it. Imagine how much more fragmented we'd be, how much more insane people would be going, during this time dealing with the pandemic if they didn't have the internet as an outlet, a way to communicate, etc.

[JPhillips]

For the 1/100th time, the reason we show so many Cases, compared to other countries that haven’t done nearly as well as we have, is that our TESTING is much bigger and better. We have tested 40,000,000 people. If we did 20,000,000 instead, Cases would be half, etc. NOT REPORTED!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 9, 2020

The 1/100th time.

[PilotMan]

[Brian Swartz]

I'll take Literal Impossibilities for $600, Alex.

[Brian Swartz]

Oh, and of course dead wrong about the testing claim as well. We have comparable testing to Spain, less than the UK, etc. We're roughly average in terms of testing volume, and we aren't contact tracing to limit spread.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by panerd

that both the non-mask wearers and the protesters were components of both politics and right and left leaning mass media encouragement. These are by far our two biggest problems leading to the huge number of cases.

What evidence backs up this claim that those are the biggest contributors? Why are other countries who have a lot more people out and about than they did during the shutdowns still not seeing nearly the rise in fatalities?

[ISiddiqui]

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...61056261767168

Wow. Lincoln Project now going after Republican Senators who voted to exonerate Trump.

[Thomkal]

Trump loses against Manhattan DA in Trump vs Vance.A subpoena to a sitting Pres does not have to meet a heightened standard 7-2 against Trump

Edit: gets sent back to lower courts if Trump wants to try another argument

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/s...61056261767168

Wow. Lincoln Project now going after Republican Senators who voted to exonerate Trump.

That is prettyawesome to see them go after their own party like that.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Trump loses against Manhattan DA in Trump vs Vance.A subpoena to a sitting Pres does not have to meet a heightened standard 7-2 against Trump

There are going to be some epic tweets...

[Brian Swartz]

A little more detail for perspective on the virus comparison:












Look at how flat the curves are in other countries compared to the US. Less so in the UK because they've been more aggressively foolish relative to the others, but at no point have the deaths here gotten nearly as flat as they are in the other nations.

[PilotMan]

The only number that really matters, since there is no plan with any effectiveness for knowing who is really sick, is deaths. That's it. Just deaths. The only sure way to know the direction and severity is deaths. Having to wait a few weeks to see the outcome of a behavior or decision today offers no consequence for the terrible decisions and leadership we see now.

[JPhillips]

Alito's dissent seems to say that Trump is going to lose Mazars as well.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by PilotMan

The only number that really matters, since there is no plan with any effectiveness for knowing who is really sick, is deaths. That's it. Just deaths. The only sure way to know the direction and severity is deaths. Having to wait a few weeks to see the outcome of a behavior or decision today offers no consequence for the terrible decisions and leadership we see now.

Hospitalizations also works.

[ISiddiqui]

Looks like Congressional subpoenas were remanded for lower courts to determine separation of powers issues - 7-2

[bronconick]

7-2 to Congress, but it's a virtual punt because the Congressional subpoena was overbroad

[Thomkal]

Trump vs Mazars also comes in at 7-2. But seems a win for both sides from what I can understand. Rejects the "demanding standards" proposed by the President and that House failed to "take into account the significant seperations of powers raised by Congressional subpoenas for the President's information". Gets sent back to lower court.

[albionmoonlight]

Legally, the opinion curtails the power of the President.

Practically, it punts disclosure of Trump's financial records until after the election.

[Lathum]

Even CNN is calling this a win for Trump

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Even CNN is calling this a win for Trump

Mazers is, slightly, but Vance is a major loss.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Mazers is, slightly, but Vance is a major loss.

How?

I know you are a lawyer so I would be curious to hear. Seems to me nothing will happen before the election. So while it is a potentially a loss down the road, it will have no effect on the election.

[JPhillips]

Trump's legal problems won't end after the election.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Lathum

How?

I know you are a lawyer so I would be curious to hear. Seems to me nothing will happen before the election. So while it is a potentially a loss down the road, it will have no effect on the election.

Oh, did you assume something would have come out before the election? The vast majority of SCOTUS cases get remanded to decide based on the ruling.

Vance said that heightened scrutiny is not required for NY State to demand tax info - meaning that NY State can receive those documents when it goes back down. They weren't going to publically share them anyways.

[Lathum]

My understanding was that there was a path for him to have to release them prior to the election

[bob]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

They weren't going to publically share them anyways.

I suspect these will get leaked pretty damn quickly.

[Thomkal]

I know many of us would have loved it if the Court said "stop the nonsense Trump" and release this info, but that was a longshot at best to happen. Both cases are not dead and in the Mazars case the Chief Justice left guidelines or tests that both sides must follow in sending it back to the lower courts.

Correct me I'm wrong but the Supremes did not buy most (all?) of Trump's arguments in these cases, INCLUDING the two justices he just appointed. The Chief Justice himself said no one including the highest office in the land is above the law. Trump's lawyers are going to have to fight that now and everything else. The only thing they criticized the House lawyers was not going far enough in their arguments against separation of Powers.

Again correct me if I'm wrong but the lower courts all rules against Trump, and would be very likely to do so again in any re-hearing of these cases going forward.

So yeah sucks that it wasn't a complete "win" in both cases, and these records likely won't be revealed before the election, but truly by now is there anyone here who was waiting to see how the Supreme's ruled on these cases before deciding who to vote for this year?

I'm pretty sure Trump hopes that everyone will lose interest in these cases when/if he loses the election and it will all go away. Nothing to me seems further from the truth with these decisions.

[Thomkal]

I would look at Neal Katyal's Twitter feed on this, as he has argues something like 40 cases to the Supreme Court-he doesn't see it as a victory for Trump at all, and it may even spur the Vance case to be expedited before the election.

[Thomkal]

Michael Cohen about to switch from a furlough to home confinement, is instead back in jail because he refused to sign papers that restricted him from doing any media or publishing a book

[GrantDawg]

What makes anybody think that Trump is not going to pardon himself before he leaves office?

[Thomkal]

I recently started following SCOTUSBlog on Twitter to get more information on the decisions made by the Supreme Court. What I did not expect was today they tweeted a ton of responses to people who obviously thought this was an official twitter account of the Supreme Court. Wow what craziness.

Edit: Finished reading those and sadly there's stupidity on both sides of the aisle.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

What makes anybody think that Trump is not going to pardon himself before he leaves office?

I'm sure he will try, he and his family but he can't pardon whatever the state of NY finds as a result of today's Vance decision. Can't pardon state crimes

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

What makes anybody think that Trump is not going to pardon himself before he leaves office?

DoJ has traditionally (since Nixon times) held the position that a President cannot pardon himself. Even if Barr says he can, I wonder if SCOTUS will take the previous position.

In addition, that's not going to shield him from state prosecution and I'm sure New York State is going to throw the book at him for any tax fraud they find.