Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Noop

How the hell did ESPN find all that money? The ACC is obsolete as a football conference and I hope Florida State leaves it for the SEC.

As long as teenage girls keep buying Jonas Brothers stuff and the 'tweens keeping paying $ to listen to Miley Cyrus/Hannah Montana, the pimp known as Disney will always be ESPN's sugar daddy.

[Swaggs]

For comparison sake, here are some attendance numbers from 2009:

Rank Division I FBS Teams Games Attendance Average In Avg.
1. Southeastern 12 86 6,560,738 76,288 -556
2. Big Ten 11 77 *5,526,237 71,769 1,644
3. Big 12 12 82 5,155,739 62,875 -81
4. Pacific-10 10 64 3,467,899 54,186 -3,164
5. Atlantic Coast 12 81 4,151,171 51,249 -1,488
6. Big East 8 +53 2,374,604 44,804 1,659
7. Mountain West 9 55 1,826,091 33,202 1,181
8. Conference USA 12 73 1,941,825 26,600 -518
9. Western Athletic 9 53 1,205,690 22,749 -1,726
10. Sun Belt # 9 *49 *806,687 16,463 -2,121
11. Mid-American 13 74 1,133,434 15,317 -1,410
12. Independents 3 19 923,915 48,627 -2,175

and some B12 expansion candidates:

Air Force 6 213,937 35,656
BYU 6 385,416 64,236
Colorado St. 6 141,856 23,643
Memphis 6 154,769 25,795
TCU 6 229,121 38,187

Only Washington State and Northwestern averaged less than 30K among BCS teams, so I would think teams like Memphis and Colorado State would be tough to consider.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If Utah or BYU leave, the MWC won't be able to score high enough for a BCS bid. I wonder if Boise St. will be pissed off if both leave?

Well, I think Utah will be gone, I don't think BYU will be since they are looking like the bastard child of the world that no one wants even though they have a great program....

So BYU, BSU and TCU will be the powers that be in the MWC if Utah leaves.

I also think if Utah takes off...their Rivalry with BYU will be screwed...If I am BYU I don't book it as an OOC game, even at the beginning of the season...

[sterlingice]

I'd love BYU and TCU but would they even consider the Big XII at this point?

SI

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I'd love BYU and TCU but would they even consider the Big XII at this point?

SI

BYU would take it if Utah leaves if not, they sit in the MWC

[Swaggs]

BYU deserves to be in a BCS conference more than probably 40% of the current BCS teams.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Noop

How the hell did ESPN find all that money? The ACC is obsolete as a football conference and I hope Florida State leaves it for the SEC.

{shrug} Same place they found it to actually overpay the ACC in the last renegotiation (i.e. pay more than the conference was originally seeking/expecting). Something to be said for making sure Fox doesn't get it I guess.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

BYU deserves to be in a BCS conference more than probably 40% of the current BCS teams.

Like I said, I'd take BYU and TCU with open arms to bring us back up to the Big XII.

SI

[timmynausea]

Interesting tweet by Goeff Ketchum, the other guy from Orangebloods:

Larry Scott's biggest mistake was that he didn't offer Tech or Okie State on Friday to assure that the Big 12 died.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

BYU deserves to be in a BCS conference more than probably 40% of the current BCS teams.

But few conferences are willing to deal with the Sunday play issue among other things.

[Swaggs]

Louisville would make for an interesting option for the Big 12, as well. Arguably, a top 10 basketball program and all the infrastructure is in place for football (and they have obviously had a lot of success in both, recrently).

I'd hate to lose them from the Big East.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

But few conferences are willing to deal with the Sunday play issue among other things.

We hear that all the time, but outside of baseball/softball, would that be a factor for most sports? It would be easy to avoid in football and relatively easy to avoid in basketball.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

We hear that all the time, but outside of baseball/softball, would that be a factor for most sports? It would be easy to avoid in football and relatively easy to avoid in basketball.

Well I did say "among other things". But when you're not someone that people are chomping at the bit to acquire, every little bit adds up, y'know?

[Swaggs]

Just thinking outloud, but New Mexico wouldn't be a terrible school to take a flyer on for the Big 12, either. Albuquerque is one of the fastest growing cities in the U.S and has a top 50 media market.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

We hear that all the time, but outside of baseball/softball, would that be a factor for most sports? It would be easy to avoid in football and relatively easy to avoid in basketball.

A lot of the Olympic type sports championships in most of the other conferences are played on Sunday...

BYU Womens rugby team forfeited their game quarter final game because it fell on Sunday and the USA Rugby organizers would not shift it.

I don't see it as much as a problem in the Big XII with having Baylor there as well...

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well I did say "among other things". But when you're not someone that people are chomping at the bit to acquire, every little bit adds up, y'know?

True. It just seems like BYU could be like a mini-Notre Dame (obviously with Mormons rather than Catholics) and their attendance figures are better than most of the current B12 schools already. They would be a desirable bowl team and would seemingly have large pockets of viewers in certain areas of the U.S. Plus, their programs are BCS-ready, already.

[Abe Sargent]

Am I the only one disappointed that we may not have Conference Armageddon now. I was all excited for the musical chairs to really start

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Am I the only one disappointed that we may not have Conference Armageddon now. I was all excited for the musical chairs to really start

I'm a little disappointed because it feels like it is inevitable now. Us have-nots are still left in limbo while the big fish go back to planning.

[timmynausea]

Another rumor surfacing today about Big East commish Marinatto actually working with Delaney to destroy the Big East and force ND to the Big Ten. I assume this would only be done if the members all knew where they were going to land. Still seems a little far-fetched to me, but who knows. If the FB schools have better options, it would make sense to get it over with.

Marinatto is now busy packaging Rutgers & Syracuse to the Big Ten before the end of the month.

As soon as 2 Big East FB schools are announced to the Big Ten, per the Big East 2003 agreement (in the event that 2 football members leave the conference, the football and non-football members can split the league without any penalty), the Basketball schools will exercise their option to dissolve the Big East FB Conference and remove them from the BEBBC.

They will take the $10m ($5m x 2) from Rutgers and Syracuse and wave the 27 month notice.

The 6 remaining FB schools won't have to pay a dime, but will be IMMEDIATELY FREE to look for a new home or start a new conference for all sports.

So now you have the Big 14. Looking to get to 16.

The Big East FB conference is dissolved.
Syracuse, Rutgers, WVU, Pitt, Louisville, USF, Cincinnati, UConn, removing about 5 annual top 25 teams from the Big East BB Conference.
The BB side is still a decent BB conference, but not great with 8 schools, and adding Xavier to get to 9.

This would be ND's conference mates:

Villanova
Georgetown
Seton Hall
Providence
St Johns
Marquette
Depaul
Xavier

This is a really weak conference for most sports, isn't it?

The problem for ND is the quality of Olympic Sports in the weakened Big East. The Domers invest a ton of money and are BIG on Olympic sports and that will be a consideration for joining the Big Ten as well. Adding to that is the still changing landscape in conferences expanding and the future BCS arrangements.

So at this point the Big East as we know it, on BOTH SIDES,IS NO MORE.

Next Big Ten move is to add Missouri to get to 15.

PAUSE.

Notre Dame can then say it's PROVEN that the landscape has changed and not theory, and can then say they have NO CHOICE but to join a SOLID conference for ALL SPORTS that are on a high level, and locked in to a guaranteed tie in to the BCS for FB.

What ND will finally do is anyone's guess. But if ND says no, then I guess eventually Pitt could get ND's spot.

[Abe Sargent]

The speculation never stops, eh?

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Interesting tweet by Goeff Ketchum, the other guy from Orangebloods:

Larry Scott's biggest mistake was that he didn't offer Tech or Okie State on Friday to assure that the Big 12 died.

Perhaps. Not sure if this passes the smell test though - would Oklahoma State have jumped without assurances Oklahoma would too? It's easy to say in hindsight that Scott should've done more to ensure that the Big-12 collapsed, but there were a lot of moving parts and some risk on his part by trying to force the proceedings.

In any event, I'm guessing we'll be back to this whole discussion again in probably 5-7 years when the Big-"12" is on the verge of imploding again...

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'm a little disappointed because it feels like it is inevitable now. Us have-nots are still left in limbo while the big fish go back to planning.

That's basically what it amounts to in the end. They'll settle on a middle ground for a couple of years until they're ready to make the bigger moves with a bit more planning. It partially depends on who the Big 12 adds as well. Louisville and Memphis are the primary candidates to add to the North. If the Big 10 raids Rutgers and Syracuse to try to destablize the Big East so they can take ND and the B12 takes Louisville, the Big East then becomes the next possible implosion and we see another set of dominoes ready to fall.

[RedKingGold]

Turn out the lights, the party's over methinks.

[panerd]

Not an easy road game in Big 12-2 basketball. What a conference this will be for basketball!

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm disappointed that the Pac-10 didn't get Texas and company. The Pac-16 would have challenged the SEC for dominance in football.

[kingfc22]

It looks like Texas and Oklahoma chose the easy road to the BCS each and every year.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

It looks like Texas and Oklahoma chose the easy road to the BCS each and every year.

Really gonna look like the old Big 2, Little 8 Big Ten of old, but probably worse. A&M, Mizzou, OSU and Texas Tech can be solid and do some damage but Texas is literally on another level as of late with recruiting. I just don't see how UT doesn't demolish the rest of the conference save every few years when OU makes a run.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Really gonna look like the old Big 2, Little 8 Big Ten of old, but probably worse. A&M, Mizzou, OSU and Texas Tech can be solid and do some damage but Texas is literally on another level as of late with recruiting. I just don't see how UT doesn't demolish the rest of the conference save every few years when OU makes a run.

I don't understand why the OU fans aren't as pissed as they should be about this reasoning that seems to be going on everywhere about Texas and its football dominance. OU has been to 7 title games and won 6 of them. Texas has been to 5 and won 3. OU has been in 4 of the last 6 title games. Why it is UT's conference to win and not OU's?

[Swaggs]

Saw this on the Big East board:

PeteThamelNYT Source confirms that Texas asked to be able to keep own local TV and wanted "extra sweetner" financially from revenue sharing at 11th hour.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by panerd

I don't understand why the OU fans aren't as pissed as they should be about this reasoning that seems to be going on everywhere about Texas and its football dominance. OU has been to 7 title games and won 6 of them. Texas has been to 5 and won 3. OU has been in 4 of the last 6 title games. Why it is UT's conference to win and not OU's?

I truly believe the last three years or so of recruiting UT has easily been the best in the Nation. They are sick, flat out sick. A lot of those kids are already contributing as well. OU just lost a ton. They will be fine but UT is truly set up to do a lot of special things.

[DeToxRox]

Utah's Rivals guy is tweeting that sources are telling him Utah told the MWC it's intentions to leave the conference earlier. Not a big surprise but most likely this is the final domino for now.

[MrBug708]

Effin Fox Sports. They had to overpay otherwise they'd be stuck with the MWC next tv cycle. Larry Scott needs to make a deal with NBC/Versus next contract cycle

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

Utah's Rivals guy is tweeting that sources are telling him Utah told the MWC it's intentions to leave the conference earlier. Not a big surprise but most likely this is the final domino for now.

Yeah. Not sure if the Big Ten will have the stones to try to collapse the Big East and force Notre Dame's hand - seems like with the Big-"12" staying alive and the Pac-10 stopping at 12, the momentum for massive realignment has been stymied.

[MrBug708]

A few of the A&M posters on their boards have really good points. I mean, there aren't exactly compelling academic/research reasons to join the SEC, but A&M's decision vis-a-vis Texas is pretty puzzling for a school with ambitions (and a past) to compete on an equal footing.

-Losing an estimated $3M of the base TV deal to UT
-Allowing UT their own network without one of their own (recruiting and financial implications of this are difficult to overstate)
-Huge loss of image as they get viewed as followers of Texas
-Games against ISU, KSU will not be on the same plane in ticket sales to what Florida, Tennessee, LSU, etc. would bring.

I just don't understand the A&M decision. Really, where is it coming from? I can't see any long-term benefits.

[Kodos]

DO IT! DO IT! DO IT!

[duckman]

Apparently, a group of ADs outside the Big XII and high ranking television execs were part of the conversation to keep the league intact. I'm not exactly sure why the ADs were involved.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by duckman

Apparently, a group of ADs outside the Big XII and high ranking television execs were part of the conversation to keep the league intact. I'm not exactly sure why the ADs were involved.

Rumors I saw about that was the Big East officials

[MrBug708]

vote - TAMU

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

A few of the A&M posters on their boards have really good points. I mean, there aren't exactly compelling academic/research reasons to join the SEC, but A&M's decision vis-a-vis Texas is pretty puzzling for a school with ambitions (and a past) to compete on an equal footing.

-Losing an estimated $3M of the base TV deal to UT
-Allowing UT their own network without one of their own (recruiting and financial implications of this are difficult to overstate)
-Huge loss of image as they get viewed as followers of Texas
-Games against ISU, KSU will not be on the same plane in ticket sales to what Florida, Tennessee, LSU, etc. would bring.

I just don't understand the A&M decision. Really, where is it coming from? I can't see any long-term benefits.

They just coward away. They could have made a statement to UT but they decided not to.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

-Games against ISU, KSU will not be on the same plane in ticket sales to what Florida, Tennessee, LSU, etc. would bring

Im sorry, but you cant compare apples to oranges...games against ISU or KSU would compare to games against Mississippi State or Vanderbilt

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Im sorry, but you cant compare apples to oranges...games against ISU or KSU would compare to games against Mississippi State or Vanderbilt

Are you trying to sell me that the Big-12 - 2 = SEC?

Seriously?

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Yeah. Not sure if the Big Ten will have the stones to try to collapse the Big East and force Notre Dame's hand - seems like with the Big-"12" staying alive and the Pac-10 stopping at 12, the momentum for massive realignment has been stymied.

May happen without the Big 10 making the initial move. Some fairly strong rumors circulating that WVU is trying to work a deal to get out of the conference I think it's safe to say every other football school with options is likely doing the same. If WVU ends up being the first one to make a move then I'm sure the Big 10 would go ahead and attempt to finish off the conference to see what ND plans on doing.

The writing is on the wall for the conference and it's becoming clear that now is the time to jump ship or you're going to be left on your own whenever the Big 10 or someone else decides to make a move.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Are you trying to sell me that the Big-12 - 2 = SEC?

Seriously?

No he's saying that comparing ISU and KSU to Florida, Tennessee, and LSU is stupid. (Re-read the original A&M post where this is done) The teams that are the equals of FLA, UT, & LSU in the big 12-2 are OU, Mizzou , and Nebraska (or say Texas Tech if you don't want to count Nebraska for the next two years) The equals of ISU and KSU in football would be the bottom feeders in the SEC (like Miss State)

[MJ4H]

So ok I get home and this has turned into the stupidest cluster-eff I can imagine. Nice job Texas and even worse Texas A&M for pansing out.

Holy crap what a cock-up. I'm legitimately pissed off right now.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Atocep

May happen without the Big 10 making the initial move. Some fairly strong rumors circulating that WVU is trying to work a deal to get out of the conference I think it's safe to say every other football school with options is likely doing the same. If WVU ends up being the first one to make a move then I'm sure the Big 10 would go ahead and attempt to finish off the conference to see what ND plans on doing.

The writing is on the wall for the conference and it's becoming clear that now is the time to jump ship or you're going to be left on your own whenever the Big 10 or someone else decides to make a move.

What are you hearing?

I hope it is SEC related.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Atocep

May happen without the Big 10 making the initial move. Some fairly strong rumors circulating that WVU is trying to work a deal to get out of the conference I think it's safe to say every other football school with options is likely doing the same. If WVU ends up being the first one to make a move then I'm sure the Big 10 would go ahead and attempt to finish off the conference to see what ND plans on doing.

The writing is on the wall for the conference and it's becoming clear that now is the time to jump ship or you're going to be left on your own whenever the Big 10 or someone else decides to make a move.

Where are you following the WVU rumors?

[Alan T]

So if this is indeed over (or close to over), who ends up being the winners/losers here?

Winners:
Colorado - Got to go where they wanted, and did so without much sniping or controversy.
Texas - Get to be the good guys to keep Big 12 alive, get an easier path to the BCS and get more money out of it.
Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor - Get to stay in a BCS conference and don't get regulated to some second (or possibly third) tier conference.
Big-10: They didn't get the Notre Dame or Texas, but they did get a school that will add to their conference in Nebraska, plus the ability for a championship game if they so choose.

Losers:

Pac-10 - Was adding Colorado (and possibly Utah) worth it? They obviously had their eyes set big and swung and missed.
Missouri - They seemed to have a For Sale sign around their necks, would easily have jumped ship if they had a taker. They end up stuck in a conference that they don't like under the conditions from Texas who they despise. Their only saving grace may be having pretty much a cakewalk in the new Big-12 North (pending what they decide to do without a championship game now)
Texas A&M, Oklahoma - Surely this wasn't the best deal for those two schools here. They appeared to have some desire elsewhere but chose to stay where they were.


Neutral:

Nebraska - They ended up in a better situation conference wise for stability and money purposes. That probably should be enough to put them in the winners category here. I didn't care too much for how they left and burned all of their bridges on the way out however. Plus their return path to football greatness has to be more difficult now against the likes of the Big 10 than they would have had facing Colorado/Missouri for the Big 12 north every year.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by panerd

I don't understand why the OU fans aren't as pissed as they should be about this reasoning that seems to be going on everywhere about Texas and its football dominance. OU has been to 7 title games and won 6 of them. Texas has been to 5 and won 3. OU has been in 4 of the last 6 title games. Why it is UT's conference to win and not OU's?

Not only that, but I don't understand how it's suddenly a much crappier football conference when Nebraska hasn't been Nebraska for nearly a decade* and Colorado hasn't been good since the 5th down play (not true, but they've had 4 straight losing seasons and haven't been a national player since 2001).

I understand how fragile the conference is at this point. But where is this crap coming from that Nebraska and Colorado singlehandedly somehow made the Big XII more of a football power conference?

SI

*I know historically, they're a much better program but that's looking like a longer and longer time ago. Since 2003, they have 63 wins. Texas Tech has 62 and Mizzou 58 and both Kansas schools have been to a BCS bowl more recently than Nebraska.

[MacroGuru]

Uggh, I think I just threw up in my mouth...Utah to the PAC 10...I hate it, I hate it, I hate it....

[DeToxRox]

I wonder if the MWC looks to expand now? Could see them grabbing a couple C-USA teams.