Werewolf LVIII: Clash of the Gods (GAME OVER)

[Poli]

I explained earlier. We were both going down. COTs were forming and we were on the outside looking in. My goal was to look "busted" during my reveal so as to cement Racer a little more in the group.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by RendeR

This game was SO weird for me. I just KNEW, I felt it about every one of them right from day 1.
After I was killed day 3, Alan asked me not to post anything until after day 4, so I assume there was some sort of ressurection possibilty?

After the lynch on night 4 I looked at Telle and Said "You, Racer, Path and either Ardent or Perdue."

I HAD them. and they knew it, which is why they busted me on night 3.

I knew I was being a little too open with my comments. I was desperately trying to drop hinst to get people I had contacted to follow my votes each night but I assume like you, people weren't sure on my reads.

As for exactly HOW I knew? I don't even truly know, I honestly followed my instincts this game right from the get go and for a change I was spot on.

The biggest thing that turned the tide of this game was the night I was killed, we had the early ending and my +3 points of votes on Telle weren't allowed because my PM was posted 3 minutes too late.

I have little doubt with the way that vote happened that if I'd put in that order 3 minutes sooner, Telle would have been lynched on night 3 and the gamewould have ended much sooner.

It was SO frustrating watching you guys fumble and bumble back and forth like a ship with no rudder for 3 days =)

GREAT game Alan. I lovethe rule set and can only hope my games ever come up to 50% of the quality this one did. Truly well well thought out and balanced.

There was no ressurection possibility in this game, that message was sent to everyone who died while Hoopsguy remained in the game due to the possibility that he would choose to speak to them the following day. Since his window was only 24 hours after someone's death to choose to speak to them, the message was sent as such.

[ArlingtonColt]

Yeah I played my role pretty horrible. I was thinking that getting a +4 weapon would basically end the game...I didn't know giving out +1 weapons would basically have the same effect. I really wanted to switch, but I had already invested 8 points and 2 days in the weapon. I figured if I could get the weapon into the hands of the most trusted we could coast to victory. The early nightfall basically made my weapon a 6 day process and totally killed any chance I had on making a difference in the game. It was fun, I enjoyed all the mechanics and Alan ran a damn fine game. I really had no clue on Titans.. I had a hunch about Racer early, but never was willing to build a case against him and I had heat on me from the very beginning. I think I'll probably sit out a few games.

[Barkeep49]

cronin: You blocked me on day 2? WTF?

It was an interesting game for me in the short time I was alive. I had planned, before the game started, to announce early in the game that I had an important role, hoping to draw an early night kill. Then I got an an important role and decided that wasn't such a good plan. So instead I decided to make sure I drew suspicion Day 1. Turns out I did too good of a job of that. I was actually bummed by the morning of Day 2 since I knew I was dead when path came up good. I had hoped to ride controversy until d3, likely use my duke then, hopefully get BG protection d4 and then die d5.

It hasn't been mentioned but I not only had the full 5 AP to vote, as someone mentioned during the game this is what confused me in the 4 vs 5 AP thing, but actually got 2 bonus votes I could place anywhere. D1 I obviously put them on path, but then D2, when it evidentially didn't matter, I put the votes on ntn to make sure he died so that if by some miracle I was still alive come D3, I wouldn't have made my super voting abilities clear to everyone.

Congrats to DT who did the nearly unthinkable and survived to the end of the game as basically an open member of the big 3. I think this was a well done game and definitely enjoyed playing in it and think I played a fairly good game in my short time in it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

cronin: You blocked me on day 2? WTF?

It was an interesting game for me in the short time I was alive. I had planned, before the game started, to announce early in the game that I had an important role, hoping to draw an early night kill. Then I got an an important role and decided that wasn't such a good plan. So instead I decided to make sure I drew suspicion Day 1. Turns out I did too good of a job of that. I was actually bummed by the morning of Day 2 since I knew I was dead when path came up good. I had hoped to ride controversy until d3, likely use my duke then, hopefully get BG protection d4 and then die d5.

It hasn't been mentioned but I not only had the full 5 AP to vote, as someone mentioned during the game this is what confused me in the 4 vs 5 AP thing, but actually got 2 bonus votes I could place anywhere. D1 I obviously put them on path, but then D2, when it evidentially didn't matter, I put the votes on ntn to make sure he died so that if by some miracle I was still alive come D3, I wouldn't have made my super voting abilities clear to everyone.

Congrats to DT who did the nearly unthinkable and survived to the end of the game as basically an open member of the big 3. I think this was a well done game and definitely enjoyed playing in it and think I played a fairly good game in my short time in it.

i'm surprised that CR didn't catch on to me earlier. I knew he was Medusa from the second he said that Triton's appearance messed up his AP's, and from that point forward I was quite open about knowing that (if not the reasons why exactly).

to be honest i didn't expect to live to the end. i figured after the racer kill, by that time the #'s were so far down and the number of unrevealed were so low and my play had been (i thought) so good that the titans would take me out.

big kudos to Neon who held his reveal off for so long, throwing a little doubt into that process I guess?

I'm not clear on why I wasn't a night-kill target at all. I guess there was the ardent-lynch and then the next day before the wolves could target me I offed Racer, leaving just telle.

Was I intended to be the target after the ardent-lynch?

Oooh, big kudos to Lathum for sticking around so long and drawing the ineveitable heat, and also to RA. I have a feeling their reveals helped draw attention (both titan and otherwise) away from me?

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Lathum, I can't believe you root for a team that doesn't cover against the Dolphins. Seriously, and what kind of poker player gets drawn out on by K9? Oh, and Flogging Molly sucks

Ordinarily I would resent that Dolphins crack, but we deserve it...

[Passacaglia]

Congrats, fellow Olympians! I know you couldn't have done it without me!

[hoopsguy]

Titans - why Pass on Night 1? Did you have some kind of feeling about a role he had, or was it just a near-random selection?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Titans - why Pass on Night 1? Did you have some kind of feeling about a role he had, or was it just a near-random selection?

I think they did it as a favor for me. Of all of the roles in the game that seemed or felt overpowered, Pass's role was the one that I felt could really unbalance the game if not careful. I think they killed him so I wouldn't have to worry about it!

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Titans - why Pass on Night 1? Did you have some kind of feeling about a role he had, or was it just a near-random selection?

And why did ntn say he killed me? Did he think that's what his power did somehow? And what did would his power have done to me, if I hadn't been killed?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And why did ntn say he killed me? Did he think that's what his power did somehow? And what did would his power have done to me, if I hadn't been killed?

Ntn didn't kill you. He had the ability to get someone drunk each night which would prevent them from action. He chose to do that to you the same night that the Titans chose to kill you.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Racer

I had a blast. I definitely want to play another one soon, but I figure I better wait until after I take the P1-Actuaral Exam at the end of November since I probably need to devote as much as my time as possible to studying for it. Any actuaries play in this game by the way?

C'mon. Actuaries don't play games.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Titans - why Pass on Night 1? Did you have some kind of feeling about a role he had, or was it just a near-random selection?

Near random. Wanted to get someone who a) is a dangerous villager and b) wasn't likely to be guarded night 1.

[Passacaglia]

Dude, Racer is studying for Course P? No wonder he killed me. He's jealous that I'm on Course C -- either that or he knew that I really needed the time to study for it myself.

(In other words, hell yeah there's another actuary playing here!)

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

cronin: You blocked me on day 2? WTF?

Days 1 and 2 I "blocked" people that were voting for somebody other than me. If they were a wolf, this meant I was blocking a wolf's vote - if they were a villager, it meant I was revealing myself as a villager to that person.

Since on those days I really had no feel for anybody, I thought that was the best use of my abilities - had I felt we were about to pull off a bad lynch, and there was somebody on the wrong side that I trusted, I would have simply moved their vote.

Both days 1 and 2 I think I had originally sent in an order to block ardent's actions (I was somewhat suspicious of him), but changed it down the stretch as the voting crystallized.

[Lathum]

OK.

I enjoyed the game as a whole.

The only problem I have with games like this where there are so many abilities that can effect votes and night actions it almost makes having those abilities pointless.

I was the bodyguard and there was really only one night where I actualy protected the person I wanted to. Factor in the ability certain people had to force/ change the votes of others it seems like there were to many roles that could effect others descions.

To me it's annoying to stratgicly set up my plan to protect people just to have the descion removed from me.


Otherwise it was alot of fun

[Lathum]

dola-

I also hated the mechanic where someone could end the day early. I don't think it is fair to screw people who weren't around.

I would have been ok with it if those who didn't vote hadn't been punished the next day.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Dude, Racer is studying for Course P? No wonder he killed me. He's jealous that I'm on Course C -- either that or he knew that I really needed the time to study for it myself.

(In other words, hell yeah there's another actuary playing here!)

Good to hear there are actuaries on this board.

I'm really only a candidate right now. I graduated from college in May with a degree in math and secondary education but decided over the summer that I'd be a lot happier and better off being an actuary then being a high school math teacher (Probability and statistics has always been my favorite branch of mathematics). So right now I'm substitute teaching until I take the exam. I don't make much right now but I am usually able to study while subbing so it's not to bad as long as I pass the exam. My main concern is whether or not I'll have spent enough time studying to pass it.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola-

I also hated the mechanic where someone could end the day early. I don't think it is fair to screw people who weren't around.

I would have been ok with it if those who didn't vote hadn't been punished the next day.

From a viewer standpoint, I loved the early end power. I do agree though that those who didn't get a vote in on time shouldn't have been punished -- thought that was a bit too harsh.

[Thomkal]

I will third that. Like that idea, but to punish the votes the next day was a bit much I thought.

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Racer

I had a blast. I definitely want to play another one soon, but I figure I better wait until after I take the P1-Actuaral Exam at the end of November since I probably need to devote as much as my time as possible to studying for it. Any actuaries play in this game by the way?

Not here, but would a math professor do? and good luck on that test they are buggerbears!

[ntndeacon]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

And why did ntn say he killed me? Did he think that's what his power did somehow? And what did would his power have done to me, if I hadn't been killed?

Basically you had only 1 action point you used that day. the other 4 were wasted on getting you trashed

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by path12

From a viewer standpoint, I loved the early end power. I do agree though that those who didn't get a vote in on time shouldn't have been punished -- thought that was a bit too harsh.

Well, that was the point of the power.

[Alan T]

Thanks for the feedback regarding the early day. Just like my PM box during the game, the feedback on it is clearly mixed afterwards too. The point of the power was indeed to punish people from the other team by not allowing them to get an action in the next day as well.. however the flip side of that is it could lead people to try to figure out who wasn't punished and go after them.

I won't say that I won't use some form of that in a future game, but if I do it probably will be tweaked. I don't think its one of those things that should be used alot or it gets abused though. I love feedback (both positive and negative) so thanks!

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

i'm surprised that CR didn't catch on to me earlier. I knew he was Medusa from the second he said that Triton's appearance messed up his AP's, and from that point forward I was quite open about knowing that (if not the reasons why exactly).

to be honest i didn't expect to live to the end. i figured after the racer kill, by that time the #'s were so far down and the number of unrevealed were so low and my play had been (i thought) so good that the titans would take me out.

big kudos to Neon who held his reveal off for so long, throwing a little doubt into that process I guess?

I'm not clear on why I wasn't a night-kill target at all. I guess there was the ardent-lynch and then the next day before the wolves could target me I offed Racer, leaving just telle.

Was I intended to be the target after the ardent-lynch?

Oooh, big kudos to Lathum for sticking around so long and drawing the ineveitable heat, and also to RA. I have a feeling their reveals helped draw attention (both titan and otherwise) away from me?

Well, I wasn't sure who brought Triton out, nor was I ever aware that Triton only messed with monsters. That must have been something in your PM description, because it's not in the rules (and probably should have been, at least from the perspective of how you can unintentionally out yourself that way).

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Basically you had only 1 action point you used that day. the other 4 were wasted on getting you trashed

Well, at least I died having fun!

[Racer]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Not here, but would a math professor do? and good luck on that test they are buggerbears!

That's really amazing. Some of the math courses I took in college were really tough. I couldn't imagine actually teaching many of the math courses I took in college.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

Well, that was the point of the power.

I hear you, but thought that getting shut out on votes and actions was punishment enough.

[Passacaglia]

Maybe it would have been less harsh if people knew the role was in the game?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Maybe it would have been less harsh if people knew the role was in the game?

In my mind that would have defeated the purpose of the role entirely though. Many of the powers that were there are powers mostly because you know they are possible.

I think if I ever have an ability or game mechanic like that again, the question to take from this was:

Was the mechanic too punative or not?

It seems that more people liked the ability than didn't like it, but alot more people thought it was too punishing vs those who thought it was ok.

I think part of the fun of games like this one are the suprises that catch you off guard (but don't imbalance the game). So I doubt I would want to announce something like that being a power in the game.

[Alan T]

One other question I had for folks.. I go back and forth in my mind on this issue all the time in a game, and actually flipflopped in this game right at the start from what my rules originally had. When you have an action that effectively removes someone from the game for a day (such as the Petrification or the minotaur in this game), how do you all receive the lack of ability to post even in the thread during that day?

I have had previous games where someone wouldn't be able to vote or use an action but could still post, and then games like this where I didn't even allow them to post.. I am torn with what is the better received mechanic for this type of action. I hate having someone not be able to participate in the game, and not being able to post sometimes feels cruel or removing part of someone's enjoyment. On the other hand, if I allow them to post and just block actions/votes it dillutes the possible usage of the mechanic and makes the storyline less interesting in my mind.

I still don't know how I feel about this and am curious to other people's thoughts.

[hoopsguy]

It wasn't a problem for me, although I tried to make sure people understood I was available by constantly lurking in the thread.

[Lathum]

I think it's ok to make someone innactive for a day. IMO it is a good way to clear a player.

As long as you can't use that ability on the same person consecutive days.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think it's ok to make someone innactive for a day. IMO it is a good way to clear a player.

As long as you can't use that ability on the same person consecutive days.

I meant to reply to your comment from the other day.. Yeah I watched how one person after another messed with your actions all game. That got a bit excessive. I'll have to think of a better way to handle that in future games

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

It wasn't a problem for me, although I tried to make sure people understood I was available by constantly lurking in the thread.

Same here.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I meant to reply to your comment from the other day.. Yeah I watched how one person after another messed with your actions all game. That got a bit excessive. I'll have to think of a better way to handle that in future games

it was pretty frustrating.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

In my mind that would have defeated the purpose of the role entirely though. Many of the powers that were there are powers mostly because you know they are possible.

I think if I ever have an ability or game mechanic like that again, the question to take from this was:

Was the mechanic too punative or not?

It seems that more people liked the ability than didn't like it, but alot more people thought it was too punishing vs those who thought it was ok.

I think part of the fun of games like this one are the suprises that catch you off guard (but don't imbalance the game). So I doubt I would want to announce something like that being a power in the game.

I don't quite agree that letting people know defeats the purpose of it. It can cause a lot of intrigue -- if you want to pull a late vote switch, you have to be careful when you do it. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with people losing AP because of it. But on the OTHER hand, I was well dead by then, so I don't know how I would have felt if I were actually in the game. It might have sucked to lose an action because of it, but on the other hand, it must have really cleared some people -- no wolf would have been caught losing actions from this, I'd imagine.

[DaddyTorgo]

it bothered me to hell and back at the moment, but then it came back being very useful in the end.

i think as long as the GM has skin thick enough to withstand the angry people then it's okay.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't quite agree that letting people know defeats the purpose of it. It can cause a lot of intrigue -- if you want to pull a late vote switch, you have to be careful when you do it. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with people losing AP because of it. But on the OTHER hand, I was well dead by then, so I don't know how I would have felt if I were actually in the game. It might have sucked to lose an action because of it, but on the other hand, it must have really cleared some people -- no wolf would have been caught losing actions from this, I'd imagine.

Actually we had discussed having me miss the vote because of the early deadline and thus gain trust.

Also, only three people missed the deadline, when there were fifteen people in the game at that point. So I don't think it was that horribly punitive for the villagers to lose their action points for the next day. The deadline was only moved up 40 minutes and most people had their votes in at that point. Many people tend to put them in during the day or put up a place-holder vote early on.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I don't quite agree that letting people know defeats the purpose of it. It can cause a lot of intrigue -- if you want to pull a late vote switch, you have to be careful when you do it. On the other hand, I don't have a problem with people losing AP because of it. But on the OTHER hand, I was well dead by then, so I don't know how I would have felt if I were actually in the game. It might have sucked to lose an action because of it, but on the other hand, it must have really cleared some people -- no wolf would have been caught losing actions from this, I'd imagine.

How many hands do you have???

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

it bothered me to hell and back at the moment, but then it came back being very useful in the end.

i think as long as the GM has skin thick enough to withstand the angry people then it's okay.

Nah, I have a pretty thick skin about most things (even in games I blow up, I don't really ever let things online get to me, its all for fun). My main goal is to have a fair/challenging game that everyone has fun in.

I've had a game before that ended up falling apart due to poor design (the all wolves game lol) .. but in cases where people have issues with how things worked in my games I am more interested in hearing why than taking offense to it. I might not always agree with someone's viewpoint on something, but I find that constructive criticism is how I always improve for my next game at least.

The one thing I don't want is a controversial game mechanic become the focus of the game rather than the game itself being what the focus of everyone is on. I think this game other than the few minutes of "What just happened??" Everyone did that, which I appreciated. I enjoyed running this game and hope everyone enjoyed playing it at least half as much as I enjoyed reading along

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How many hands do you have???

When playing werewolf? Too many.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Telle

Actually we had discussed having me miss the vote because of the early deadline and thus gain trust.

Also, only three people missed the deadline, when there were fifteen people in the game at that point. So I don't think it was that horribly punitive for the villagers to lose their action points for the next day. The deadline was only moved up 40 minutes and most people had their votes in at that point. Many people tend to put them in during the day or put up a place-holder vote early on.

My argument abot this is the way the 24 hour deadline works.

with the 24 hour deadline you have much less time to plan a strategy for your night action so when I have a role that involves a night action I attempt to submit my night action as close to the deadline as possible so I can make the most educated descion. The sudden ending really screwed with that.

I understand the concept of a conditional order, but just because you do that doesn't mean it doesn't screw you any more.

Oh, and I was lying when I said I didn't get my night action in that night