POTUS 2024 - Harris vs Trump - General Election Discussion

[Atocep]

Someone needs to ask if he considers Bob Marley black.

[GrantDawg]

No surprises. Shapiro and Beshear seem to be the two favorites.



[Atocep]

The Algerian boxer controversy is a great example of why it's not as easy to define male vs female as the right makes it out to be. Biology and nature don't conform to restrictions and rigid definitions.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Atocep

The Algerian boxer controversy is a great example of why it's not as easy to define male vs female as the right makes it out to be. Biology and nature don't conform to restrictions and rigid definitions.

It really is crazy. I mean they act like the genitals you are born with is the only determining factor, but then attack this woman born with the a vagina as not being a woman.

[JPhillips]

That's a really strong list of VP candidates.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It really is crazy. I mean they act like the genitals you are born with is the only determining factor, but then attack this woman born with the a vagina as not being a woman.

It's about control and insecurity with their own sexuality. They want women to fit their definition of what a woman should be. You have to have a certain body type, dress a certain way, act a certain way.

Also incredibly funny they think Algeria of all places is sending a transgender athlete to the Olympics. Like do 30 seconds of research on the country and see why that's not happening.

[RainMaker]

It seems like it's going to be Shapiro. There have been some leaks and launching in Philadelphia drives that point home even further. A little risky but I'm guessing they've run the numbers. He likely locks up Pennsylvania for them but may hurt them in Michigan and with young voters overall (maybe with women too depending on the validity of the sexual harassment complaints).

I don't think he's worth the risk when you're running against Trump. Walz would be my choice because he's got a terrific background that resonates with Midwesterners. Beshear would be next up because he might be able to swing a percentage point or two of rural white voters. Then some mix of Kelly, Pritzker and Shapiro depending on what you want.

The campaign does seem to know what they're doing though. Looking through the tour, they're making stops in places like Eau Claire Wisconsin. Not sure if the Hillary campaign even knew the city (or state) existed during her campaign.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

It really is crazy. I mean they act like the genitals you are born with is the only determining factor, but then attack this woman born with the a vagina as not being a woman.

I’m guessing the vast majority don’t know and aren’t going to look deeply enough to know that she was born with a vagina. All the outraged stuff I’m seeing on social media is leading with some form of “female boxer forced to fight against biological male,” and of course because it fits the preferred narrative, it’s accepted as fact without a moment’s pause. Just search
“biological male” on social media and I’m sure you’ll see dozens of oft-shared posts with that language.

[CrimsonFox]

“She was always of Indian heritage, and she was only promoting Indian heritage. I didn’t know she was Black until a number of years ago, when she happened to turn Black, and now she wants to be known as Black. So I don’t know, is she Indian or is she Black?”

[CrimsonFox]

The first guy looks like he dresses up like his mother and kills people in a motel

[Edward64]

Good article on the negotiations.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-russ...h-paul-whelan/

This caught my eye and wondered how really true Blinken statement is?

that claims of him being a spy were outrageous and false, that Moscow had "crossed the line" and that the matter should be solved diplomatically. Lavrov responded that Gershkovich had been "caught red-handed" and that "him being a journalist does not provide him immunity." To which Blinken replied: "You know our country well. You know our system well. You know that for all our efforts to learn information, we do not use journalists."

[GrantDawg]

“"biological male” on social media and I’m sure you’ll see dozens of oft-shared posts with that language."

What is crazy is they are using a supposed failed test from IBA as proof that she has "XY" chromosomes as "proof" she us a man. Except the IBA initially Saud thar was the test she failed, and then back tracked and said she had high levels of testosterone and they didn't test her chromosomes. And of course the fact Russian based organization failed her after she beat a Russian boxer, which is most likely not a coincidence.
So they legitimately have zero proof of anything they are claiming other than "look at her."

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

“"biological male” on social media and I’m sure you’ll see dozens of oft-shared posts with that language."

What is crazy is they are using a supposed failed test from IBA as proof that she has "XY" chromosomes as "proof" she us a man. Except the IBA initially Saud thar was the test she failed, and then back tracked and said she had high levels of testosterone and they didn't test her chromosomes. And of course the fact Russian based organization failed her after she beat a Russian boxer, which is most likely not a coincidence.
So they legitimately have zero proof of anything they are claiming other than "look at her."

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

You’re going wayyyyy too deep with this. There is no “proof.” There is no digging deeply. There is barely even any thought process to it at all. The first sentence of a post they read says that a biological male beat up a woman in an Olympic boxing match, and that is full validation of everything they’ve been saying/thinking/believing about those sicko liberal trans people.

And the original posters understand that if they’re just looking for internet clout, there’s no need for the post to be true; it just needs to stir people up. #Internet101

[cuervo72]

- Serena Williams was accused of being a man when outperforming a white female
-Caster Semennya was accused of being a man when outperforming a white female
-Imane Khalifa was accused of being a man when outperforming a white female
Take what you want from this.

— Isa (@isaperezxx) August 1, 2024

(And let's not forget, M. Obama's a man, too.)

[albionmoonlight]

On a day when the American women completely dominate gymnastics and one could just revel in that and enjoy it and shout USA USA USA, these weirdos work themselves into a lather because someone from a county they couldn't find on a map looks manish.

Freaks and genital obsessed weirdos.

[RainMaker]

I don't think it's a race thing. It's been going on for a long time but I think has bubbled up more recently. They called Navratilova a biological male. Same with Wambach. There are people talking about the woman's rugby player who is stiff arming people left and right a male. And it's been a pretty common tactic against women in combat sports who don't look feminine enough for their liking.

There are always going to be people who feel emasculated by athletic women and lash out. And you'll always have a percent of repressed homoxsexuals who are upset at the way these women make them feel.

[RainMaker]

pic.twitter.com/6El0gKcN3v

— kristina. (@cosmepolitics) August 1, 2024

[JPhillips]

It's amazing how often the GOP refuses to pass their own stated prioritise because they fear it might help the Dems. Today that was the House passed child tax credit that couldn't find enough GOP support in the Senate to overcome the filibuster.

[RainMaker]

Democrats could just end the filibuster.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I want to know what he thinks the best messaging is for these things.

I can't answer this. I think I'm the wrong person to ask; I think quite a few people on the forums are almost certainly better than me at political strategy/messaging. I do think this kind of messaging has some basic issues;

- it tends to backfire in recent history
- people already know Trump is weird/dangerous
- it ignores the much more important issue

Telling Trump voters and/or independents Trump is weird is like telling someone who smokes three packs of cigarettes a day that smoking is bad for you. They typically know that already. It's not reasonable to expect a response of 'wow, thank you citizen! I've been walking around choking down nicotine like I'm a chimney for decades without knowing it was killing me, you've done me a great service!' The problem is people who see Trump is dangerous and weird ... and still vote for him anyway because they are convinced the alternative Democrats are offering is much worse.

Convincing people that isn't the case is what needs to happen, and that requires not taking the perspective of just 'we're normal/right and they are the weird ones and how could anyone buy into that'. I don't know what combination of messaging and platform would be best there without overly alienating the liberal base, but that's the starting point to figuring it out.

[RainMaker]

You're comparing people who want kids to have their genitals inspected before they can sign up for JV field hockey and people who say that that is weird. I think calling them weird is tame for creepy fetishists and perverts.

Anyway, more JD on tape. Did they even vet him?

Vance on Tape: Rape and Incest, "inconvenient", no excuse for abortion ban exceptions. pic.twitter.com/THK52Bnsm1

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) August 2, 2024

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Anyway, more JD on tape. Did they even vet him?

I choose to believe the rumor that Don Jr and Eric forced him on Trump. If that were the case, you know they didn't.

Likewise, although I'm certainly scared of all the rumors of Republicans stacking the deck with election officials, I get some hope from how bad all of them are at everything.

[GrantDawg]

Calling rape an inconvenience is a choice.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I can't answer this. I think I'm the wrong person to ask; I think quite a few people on the forums are almost certainly better than me at political strategy/messaging. I do think this kind of messaging has some basic issues;

- it tends to backfire in recent history
- people already know Trump is weird/dangerous
- it ignores the much more important issue

Telling Trump voters and/or independents Trump is weird is like telling someone who smokes three packs of cigarettes a day that smoking is bad for you. They typically know that already. It's not reasonable to expect a response of 'wow, thank you citizen! I've been walking around choking down nicotine like I'm a chimney for decades without knowing it was killing me, you've done me a great service!' The problem is people who see Trump is dangerous and weird ... and still vote for him anyway because they are convinced the alternative Democrats are offering is much worse.

Convincing people that isn't the case is what needs to happen, and that requires not taking the perspective of just 'we're normal/right and they are the weird ones and how could anyone buy into that'. I don't know what combination of messaging and platform would be best there without overly alienating the liberal base, but that's the starting point to figuring it out.

If this was the case Trump and the GOP wouldn’t be freaking out over the whole thing and they very much are.

[Ksyrup]

Shapiro cancelled a couple of fundraisers this weekend (for himself). I have to imagine he's the pick. I kinda hope it's not Beshear, selfishly.

[Ksyrup]

Nate Silver has already backtracked/updated his prediction from modest Trump electoral victory to toss-up.

[Ghost Econ]

I think we know who Simone is voting for

I love my black job 🖤 https://t.co/c5wPc6xOY3

— Simone Biles (@Simone_Biles) August 2, 2024

[Ben E Lou]

My guilty pleasure fantasy if Harris wins: the next four years of watching the spineless whores like Rubio, Haley, Graham, and Cruz—who all knew better but bowed to Trump nonetheless—slowly and collectively poop their pants for the next four years as the long slow burn comes into clear view that he’s the clear leader for the 2028 nomination. I’d like to think I can rise above such petty thought, but right now if I’m honest it’s just Tune. Piper.

[GrantDawg]

"Shapiro cancelled a couple of fundraisers this weekend (for himself). I have to imagine he's the pick. I kinda hope it's not Beshear, selfishly."

Every VP candidate did the same thing. I think they are probably planning on having some one on one interviews and planning with all of the candidates. Then the swimsuit competition on Sunday.

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[albionmoonlight]

Best line I've seen today:

If Kamala had tried to rent an apartment from Donald, he'd have known she was black.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

My guilty pleasure fantasy if Harris wins: the next four years of watching the spineless whores like Rubio, Haley, Graham, and Cruz—who all knew better but bowed to Trump nonetheless—slowly and collectively poop their pants for the next four years as the long slow burn comes into clear view that he’s the clear leader for the 2028 nomination. I’d like to think I can rise above such petty thought, but right now if I’m honest it’s just Tune. Piper.

I am doing my part in Texas to try and make Cruz an ex-Senator after the November election.

[Ksyrup]

I just saw an analysis of the Texas Senate race that Cruz is on track to win comfortably. Anything can happen, but that would be a surprise.

[albionmoonlight]

Yeah. Kamala hype is fun. But liberal dreams of Blue Texas, Florida, etc. in 2024 are, IMO, overblown.

It would require something like Trump having a total meltdown and telling his supporters to not vote GOP downballot or something.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I just saw an analysis of the Texas Senate race that Cruz is on track to win comfortably. Anything can happen, but that would be a surprise.

Six years ago, the polls had Cruz as +12, but he only won by +2.6.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yeah. Kamala hype is fun. But liberal dreams of Blue Texas, Florida, etc. in 2024 are, IMO, overblown.

It would require something like Trump having a total meltdown and telling his supporters to not vote GOP downballot or something.

But there was the moment. 2018, even some hope in 2020. At this point, I just don't see it.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Ben E Lou

My guilty pleasure fantasy if Harris wins: the next four years of watching the spineless whores like Rubio, Haley, Graham, and Cruz—who all knew better but bowed to Trump nonetheless—slowly and collectively poop their pants for the next four years as the long slow burn comes into clear view that he’s the clear leader for the 2028 nomination. I’d like to think I can rise above such petty thought, but right now if I’m honest it’s just Tune. Piper.

Yeah, there's no doubt that Trump is the favorite in 2028. It's his party now.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Best line I've seen today:

If Kamala had tried to rent an apartment from Donald, he'd have known she was black.

+1 to whomever said that

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Yeah, there's no doubt that Trump is the favorite in 2028. It's his party now.

I am wondering how exactly anyone thinks they're going to get the party back.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cartman

Six years ago, the polls had Cruz as +12, but he only won by +2.6.

But his opponent then had some serious national name recognition and (I presume) corresponding Texas hype. I don't even know who's running against him this time.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ghost Econ

I think we know who Simone is voting for

I love my black job 🖤 https://t.co/c5wPc6xOY3

— Simone Biles (@Simone_Biles) August 2, 2024

All fun and games until some migrant criminal illegally crosses the border and becomes the greatest American gymnast of all time.

[Ksyrup]

This isn't THE Rasmussen poll, but I believe this guy is still a right-leaning pollster.

.@ScottWRasmussen national survey @KamalaHarris 47%@realDonaldTrump 42%@RobertKennedyJr 6%

3,000 RV,
Conducted by RMG Research
July 29-31, 2024

— RMG Research (@RMG_Research) August 2, 2024

[albionmoonlight]

Whether Trump wins or loses, he's the GOP favorite for 2028. Physical incapacity would be the only thing that would prevent it.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I am wondering how exactly anyone thinks they're going to get the party back.

It seems like there's no obvious heir apparent and I'd hope the MAGA base would fracture and turn on itself, hamstringing the party even further....but after seeing the excitement and turnaround for Harris, who everybody (myself included) thought was entirely unlikable makes me think there's a chance for someone on the right to capture the same lightning in a bottle.

Even though MAGA appears to be tied at the hip with Trump I imagine that they (and/or the non MAGA wing of the party) might get a burst of unexpected enthusiasm when finally presented with somethnig else. Even here we've got plenty of folks that have become forced Democrats, but might be attracted back to the GOP by someone sane.

[cuervo72]

Even logistically though; if there is no more Trump, there are still Trump kids and in-laws that would have their hooks in the party (certainly financially). If they don't want to leave, how do you get them out? A party seems like normally a thing that is there and no one really owns, collectively the group just says "ok, these folks are in charge now." What if those in charge just say "we own this now" and don't go away? I guess what I'm wondering is if there is any recourse the group at large can take to extricate them.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This isn't THE Rasmussen poll, but I believe this guy is still a right-leaning pollster.

.@ScottWRasmussen national survey @KamalaHarris 47%@realDonaldTrump 42%@RobertKennedyJr 6%

3,000 RV,
Conducted by RMG Research
July 29-31, 2024

— RMG Research (@RMG_Research) August 2, 2024

Kennedy may end up really hurting Trump. I've seen a couple recent polls and with Kennedy included Harris has been up right around 5 points.

[albionmoonlight]

Seeing PAC ads supporting Kamala during the Olympics.

"As America turns the page, Kamala is ready."

If she, as the sitting VP, manages to pull off making Trump seem like the incumbent, then she will almost certainly win.

[NobodyHere]

Kyle Rittenhouse says he will not vote for Trump

When you've lost Rittenhouse you've lost the White House.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Kennedy may end up really hurting Trump. I've seen a couple recent polls and with Kennedy included Harris has been up right around 5 points.

Kennedy is going to bow out and endorse Trump. That has been the plan all along

[Lathum]

My therapist says people have to bottom out before they realize they need help. I view the modern GOP like that. Some guys have tried to rescue them from Trump, but until the party really bottoms out and starts overwhelmingly losing elections MAGA and the Trump stain will be a part of it.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Yeah, there's no doubt that Trump is the favorite in 2028. It's his party now.

even his rotting corpse