Game of Thrones on HBO

[Edward64]

Two regicides (or whatever is the equivalent is for lords) and a zombie Jon Snow. IMO solid episode.

I do think there is 1 or 2 threads too many. The High Sparrow thread should just be done by now. Send in the royal guards and just kill everyone.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Liked it much better than the first episode, but I'm still decidedly meh.

I'm wondering if the Balon Greyjoy part was simply to connect the dots for how it happened in the book.

[MrBug708]

I think they needed to bring in the rest of the Greyjoy arc somehow, this kind of creates the persona.

Wasn't expecting the Bolton arc.

Whose the guy who shows up to Ramsey in the preview? I would have thought Manderly, but he's supposed to be fat, no?

[Neon_Chaos]

The episode 3 preview has got me AMPED UP! We finally get to see the Tower of Joy!

I'm glad they're using Bran to guide us through the flashbacks.

[Radii]

Needs more Tyrion and Varys, and less... of a lot of other things. If we didn't all know exactly what was going to happen with Jon Snow maybe it'd be different. I know they have a ton of things going on all at once, but I really feel like that just needed to be done and over with in the first episode instead of dragging it out, since we all knew what was going to happen anyway.

I am really looking forward to where all of this goes, a little too much of this was either very slow to me, or completely obviously inevitable. Not really worried about any of this, just can't wait for all these pieces to move a bit more.

[Logan]

The Greyjoy stuff confused me a lot.

[ISiddiqui]

It appears they've ramped up the pacing quite a bit this season (so far). The other side to that is that the showrunners feel they've done enough narrative and character development over 5 seasons and don't really feel like they need to do anymore. The Arya plotline is an example of this... that Arya is now blind thing seems like a waste. You get beaten twice and then pass the easiest test ever and then you are in?

Also there does seem to be a criminal waste of Tyrion and Varys in Meereen, because, as far as we know, nothing is really going on in Meereen, aside from burning the ships, so Tyrion and Varys are sitting around doing nothing, when you'd think they'd have to put down an open revolt, right? That'd actually be really interesting.

[whomario]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

It appears they've ramped up the pacing quite a bit this season (so far). The other side to that is that the showrunners feel they've done enough narrative and character development over 5 seasons and don't really feel like they need to do anymore.

On the other hand, they are now allocating time to flashbacks (new one in the promo as well). I sure hope that´s leading somewhere important for it to be worth the screen time when there is already so little time for the individual stories.

I do like the format and the "snapshot" nature of the show that allows you/demands of you to connect the dots yourself, but i kinda feel it´s now stretched to the very limit.

I also hope we don´t get treated to captured-and-tortured-Jamie again. Been there, done that.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Also there does seem to be a criminal waste of Tyrion and Varys in Meereen, because, as far as we know, nothing is really going on in Meereen, aside from burning the ships, so Tyrion and Varys are sitting around doing nothing, when you'd think they'd have to put down an open revolt, right? That'd actually be really interesting.

you mean the invisible guerilla-style revolt by ? Not sure how they go from here story wise (and the little news flash about the other cities going back to slavery makes it even more weird). I mean, what´s next for Daenerys ? Do this whole song and dance again ? Or take over the Dothraki after all and lead them to Westeros (against the screams of Varys, who would probably get hysterical at that idea) ? With what ships ?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by whomario

On the other hand, they are now allocating time to flashbacks (new one in the promo as well). I sure hope that´s leading somewhere important for it to be worth the screen time when there is already so little time for the individual stories.

Well they kind of have to flashback to the Tower of Joy (which they'll show next week) to get at Jon's lineage, mostly because that was all in Ned's head in the 1st book, but never stated out loud in the show.

you mean the invisible guerilla-style revolt by ?

Well, I was thinking that after you get the Queen leaving the city and Meereen now lead by people who no one really know, the guerrilla revolt may become more open civil war - with at least some consideration as to how to put the threat down.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

The Arya plotline is an example of this... that Arya is now blind thing seems like a waste. You get beaten twice and then pass the easiest test ever and then you are in?

This is pretty standard training material for future bad assery. I think the implication was that she had been beaten more than twice. It tracks relatively closely to the books more or less. I find Arya a perfectly fully developed character at this point. It's now a process of getting her to where she needs to be physically and skillwise, me thinks.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Also there does seem to be a criminal waste of Tyrion and Varys in Meereen, because, as far as we know, nothing is really going on in Meereen, aside from burning the ships, so Tyrion and Varys are sitting around doing nothing, when you'd think they'd have to put down an open revolt, right? That'd actually be really interesting.

After the criminal waste of Tyrion in "Dance", I'll gladly take him and Varys in Meereen. The few scenes last night - Tyrion in the throne room and with the dragons - are already waaaay better than anything, ANYTHING, Tyrion did in Book 6.

As for Varys, again, he's been put to much better use in the show than books 4-5 for reasons that are obvious to those who have read them.

Originally Posted by whomario

I also hope we don´t get treated to captured-and-tortured-Jamie again. Been there, done that.

I don't think that's going to happen.

Originally Posted by whomario

On the other hand, they are now allocating time to flashbacks (new one in the promo as well). I sure hope that´s leading somewhere important for it to be worth the screen time when there is already so little time for the individual stories.

There is a ton of great flashback type scenes in the books. They are told either through dreams, stories, or some other method. They add a lot to history and back story of what happened before the series began and a lot of that is very relevant to things happening now.

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Well they kind of have to flashback to the Tower of Joy (which they'll show next week) to get at Jon's lineage, mostly because that was all in Ned's head in the 1st book, but never stated out loud in the show.

That could be my single favorite scene in the entire series.

Last night was a great episode. They are really churning through characters this season: Doran Martel, Areo Hotah, Trystane, Roose Bolton, Balon Greyjoy...

We also had not one, but two, characters get slammed and smooshed into walls, almost back-to-back, by very large and strong "peoples".

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

This is pretty standard training material for future bad assery. I think the implication was that she had been beaten more than twice. It tracks relatively closely to the books more or less. I find Arya a perfectly fully developed character at this point. It's now a process of getting her to where she needs to be physically and skillwise, me thinks.

5 minutes of blind training scenes doesn't "future badassery" make.. especially since she fails hard both times.

After the criminal waste of Tyrion in "Dance"

I actually really enjoyed the Aegon storyline aspects, and Tyrion's piecing together who was Griff and Young Griff.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

5 minutes of blind training scenes doesn't "future badassery" make.. especially since she fails hard both times.

Have you never seen a character begin his or her journey to badassery? The fall furthers the flight. They always get beat down first. Always. This is 101 level stuff!

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I actually really enjoyed the Aegon storyline aspects, and Tyrion's piecing together who was Griff and Young Griff.

I don't mind Big Griff, I think he's one of the more interesting characters that's been introduced post-Storm, but the whole Young Griff storyline irritates me to no end. Either he's a distraction and won't amount to much of anything other than wasting our time (see, e.g., the Martel kid), or he will play a major role, which will be annoying since he was introduced into the series so late and there are so many other better, more interesting and cooler characters who should be playing major roles.

It's a lose-lose proposition.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Have you never seen a character begin his or her journey to badassery? The fall furthers the flight. They always get beat down first. Always. This is 101 level stuff!

The beat down usually leads to a new insight that is shown. Some different way of answering a question because the beat down indicated it. I don't think getting beat down and then answering the easiest test possible is that.

Basically, turning her blind and sending her out in the streets did nothing and was a pointless waste of time.

I don't mind Big Griff, I think he's one of the more interesting characters that's been introduced post-Storm, but the whole Young Griff storyline irritates me to no end. Either he's a distraction and won't amount to much of anything other than wasting our time (see, e.g., the Martel kid), or he will play a major role, which will be annoying since he was introduced into the series so late and there are so many other better, more interesting and cooler characters who should be playing major roles.

He already has played a major role. Far more major than some of the POV characters we've witnessed...

Spoiler

Even if he ultimately fails, he's taken part of the Stormlands and if the Arianne chapter from Winds is to be believed, has taken Storm's End. That's a massive role in the narrative. And why is he not interesting? He's someone who has been bred for rulership since he was born. Educated in all manner of statecraft. He is the anti-Joffery. That's an incredibly interesting narrative. And if he can get Dorne - I'm assuming Arianne travels to Storm's End to see if there can be a marriage pact, it creates an interesting tension among the smallfolk.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Whose the guy who shows up to Ramsey in the preview? I would have thought Manderly, but he's supposed to be fat, no?

I've read that it appears to be someone bearing the Umber sigul. And who has Rickon been hiding with?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

I've read that it appears to be someone bearing the Umber sigul. And who has Rickon been hiding with?

I think he is a Karstark. Ramsey mentioned it and it ties in with the "previously on game of thrones..."

[ISiddiqui]

Yes, but the new Lord Karstark was there in the room when Ramsey killed Roose Bolton. I'm not sure what the person in the preview looks like, but I'm wondering if MrBug isn't asking about someone else.

[RainMaker]

I am dumb but was the dragon scene supposed to imply that Tyrion might be a Targaryen?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I am dumb but was the dragon scene supposed to imply that Tyrion might be a Targaryen?

That's how I took it, but I am hopeful that he is, so it could be wishful thinking.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I think he is a Karstark. Ramsey mentioned it and it ties in with the "previously on game of thrones..."

He was already in the room when the other guy shows up

[Solecismic]

I take it he's a Lannister, and has plenty of courage. He also has the brains to understand that Daenerys isn't going to lead anything without her dragons.

It's interesting to look at the cast list and how many of the 62 (so far) episodes each character has appeared in. Tyrion is up to 57. Cersei is second with 48.

I guess we have to wait a while to see what, exactly, Jon is right now. Probably juxtaposed with the head-smashing mountain-thing Cersei has adopted.

[bhlloy]

Is this entire thing going to end up with zombie Mountain vs undead Jon Snow in a coffin match at Wrestlemania?

[PackerFanatic]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Is this entire thing going to end up with zombie Mountain vs undead Jon Snow in a coffin match at Wrestlemania?

I'm all in with this.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Is this entire thing going to end up with zombie Mountain vs undead Jon Snow in a coffin match at Wrestlemania?

I'm imagining an ending where Daenerys finally arrives in Westeros to find that the White Walkers have overrun the continent. The end.

[ISiddiqui]

I'm hoping for another opponent for zombie Mountain; however, I'm with Atocep - Dany finding out that she started for Westeros a bit too late would be a great ending .

[whomario]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm imagining an ending where Daenerys finally arrives in Westeros to find that the White Walkers have overrun the continent. The end.

With the camera zooming from above away from here, since she´s riding in on a dragon. That´d actually be a kinda fitting ending ...

[TexasT]

Originally Posted by Edward64

Two regicides (or whatever is the equivalent is for lords) and a zombie Jon Snow. IMO solid episode.

I do think there is 1 or 2 threads too many. The High Sparrow thread should just be done by now. Send in the royal guards and just kill everyone.

+1!

[Groundhog]

Obviously they are building towards something, but felt kind of rushed just killing off two (really, one as far as the show is concerned) 'major' characters so quickly, but hey, we're working our way towards the end.

I preferred the older style of longer individual stories rather than cramming 3-5 minute slices of all of them, though it can't be accused of stretching out the story to make more episodes.

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Obviously they are building towards something, but felt kind of rushed just killing off two (really, one as far as the show is concerned) 'major' characters so quickly, but hey, we're working our way towards the end.

I preferred the older style of longer individual stories rather than cramming 3-5 minute slices of all of them, though it can't be accused of stretching out the story to make more episodes.

Agree with this. Not a book reader but it's becoming apparent that an alignment of leaders is starting to unfold which may be what is needed to fight the white walkers.

Of course Jon Snow was resurrected (with Bran likely used to tell his birth story), Theon appears to be setting up to take over the Ironborn, Arya is about to become badass, Sansa has Brienne, Tyrion has set the dragons free which likely free Danearys and she may eventually be key to the fight, and Jamie might be the fatherly figure to Tomen he always wanted to be (but with a greater sense of honor than before). And Ramsey is just enough of a (well deserved) preliminary speed bump to the greater fight.

I'd say things are shaping up for an interesting conclusion. Where interesting could mean "they all die trying ".

[Groundhog]

I have to say I thought the whole Zombie Snow scene was overly long given character scenes are at a premium, and built zero suspense during all that quiet time because it was (IMO, at least) so obvious he was going to wake up.

I also hoped (and it might still be the case, given the timing of the camera flashing to the dire wolf) that Jon might have escaped death by warg'ing his way into the wolf, and then back again. Melisandre might have healed the body, and then Jon returned from Ghost. That would be more satisfying to me than Melisandre performing the miracle for the first time.

[Chief Rum]

I am by and large positive and enthusiastic for the direction the show is going in many of these storyline, but there are two inconsistencies in the show that bug me a little right now.

1. Dorne-- okay, I get it, Ellaria Sand and her Snakes are badass and have killed off Doran and his dumbass heir and presumably have taken over for the immediate future. Am.I supposed to believe that the assembled noble houses of Dorne, whose power have largely been unaffected by the wars up north to this point, will just sit idly by while a bastard(ess) consort of Prince Oberon kills their liege lord and runs the realm?

2. The Tyrells-- Mace is on the longest trip to Braavos ever and Margaery and Loras are in the High Septon's cells. So the second richest and most powerful house in the land, led by the resourceful Thorn, does nothing at all while their royal queen and kin sit in a grungy cell in Kings Landing? Shouldn't there be a Tyrell army marching on Kings Landing at the moment, and enormous pressure being applied to King Tommen to go rescue them?

[Chief Rum]

I am by and large positive and enthusiastic for the direction the show is going in many of these storyline, but there are two inconsistencies in the show that bug me a little right now.

1. Dorne-- okay, I get it, Ellaria Sand and her Snakes are badass and have killed off Doran and his dumbass heir and presumably have taken over for the immediate future. Am.I supposed to believe that the assembled noble houses of Dorne, whose power have largely been unaffected by the wars up north to this point, will just sit idly by while a bastard(ess) consort of Prince Oberon kills their liege lord and runs the realm?

2. The Tyrells-- Mace is on the longest trip to Braavos ever and Margaery and Loras are in the High Septon's cells. So the second richest and most powerful house in the land, led by the resourceful Queen of Thorns, does nothing at all while their royal queen and kin sit in a grungy cell in Kings Landing? Shouldn't there be a Tyrell army marching on Kings Landing at the moment, and enormous pressure being applied to King Tommen to go rescue them?

[Groundhog]

I agree with you, but I think both of those points are going to be a huge part of what happens next outside of the North. I expect at least one of those to be the major storyline in the 2nd half of the season, TBH, maybe even the big climax to the season.

[ISiddiqui]

Dorne has always been a complete mess in the show. I hadn't considered the angle of the other noble houses of Dorne, but that is definitely something that logically wouldn't be tolerated in this world. The other noble houses would probably march to the Gardens to depose the bastards and set up the closest living relative to Doran.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Yes, Dorne on the show has been a hot mess. Ellaria and Oberyn in Kings Landing were amazing, but other than that... Dorne has not been a high point.

Doran was the most disappointing. In the book, he's super smart and playing the long game. In the show, he just sort of sat around and then died.

One of the few missteps of an otherwise brilliant show that, unlike so many other book-to-TV or book-to-movie translations, has actually improved on the source material from time to time!

[Coffee Warlord]

Can they troll us ANY harder with Lyanna Stark?

[ISiddiqui]

Hey look some longer character development scenes! I enjoyed that episode... though, c'mon with the Tower of Joy! Cutting just as Ned was going up?

[Atocep]

Really good episode that sets up what should be a lot of fun things this season.

Spoiler

I can only assume Smalljon is part of a plot to get a Stark back into Winterfell. The wolf's head looked way too small and Smalljon Umber doesn't seem the type to go to Ramsey asking for help with wildlings.

[MrBug708]

Going to be a Mexican standoff in the North. Wonder what the Umber's angle will be? Gotta be the Manderly arc morphed into it?

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Can they troll us ANY harder with Lyanna Stark?

I agree. And it's completely unnecessary as this is HBO....they sell subscriptions not commercials. They don't need to do drag out storytelling like that, especially in a condensed 10 episodes where the material could support 20.

Otherwise, good episode and excited to see the next one. Just a bit peeved at those tactics.

[whomario]

Question: Did they really present a cliffhanger with Jamie in Episode 2 and then completely passed over it in Ep3 ? Or did i misinterpret the scene in Ep 2 ? (you know, the one of him being all surrounded by armed men and getting ready to throw down)

I loved the "Now go fail again" line, Davos has really become a great character and i hope he sticks around for a while and maybe gets some more screentime even.

And Jon Snow ending his watch can only mean he´s going south for a bit, right ?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by whomario

Question: Did they really present a cliffhanger with Jamie in Episode 2 and then completely passed over it in Ep3 ? Or did i misinterpret the scene in Ep 2 ? (you know, the one of him being all surrounded by armed men and getting ready to throw down)

I loved the "Now go fail again" line, Davos has really become a great character and i hope he sticks around for a while and maybe gets some more screentime even.

Yeah, I don't think it was really a standoff as much as a show of force in ep2.

Agree on Davos, too. They took their time, but they finally made my favourite character in the books into one of the best in the show. I thought his stuff really dragged until this year.

[JPhillips]

"That's not Rickon, you cunt. Rickon is a child and you brought me a teenager."

[Ned Doolittle]

Something tells me Rickon is about to have a lot in common with Theon very shortly.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Something tells me Rickon is about to have a lot in common with Theon very shortly.

I really hope not. I get it, Ramsey is a sick fuck who tortures people for fun. Showing more of it at this point feels like torture porn, not storytelling.


Loved this episode, lots of things moving along nicely, no scenes where I just wish they would have moved on. Tyrion and Varys remain the highlights of any episode they're in to me, but it was all quite solid.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Ned Doolittle

Something tells me Rickon is about to have a lot in common with Theon very shortly.

That whole story gives me the willies. I am scared for Rickon.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by Atocep

I'm imagining an ending where Daenerys finally arrives in Westeros to find that the White Walkers have overrun the continent. The end.

LOL. I'm leaning towards an ending where Bran, who can apparently dabble in the past, restores order to the galaxy by offing all the Sith lords before they can do damage, thus making Anakin Skywalker the undeniable leader and protector of all realms. None of the 12 books we read actually happened. Only in that particular time thread, which of course isn't the one we're all on. That is, until Marty McFly jumps in his Delorian. More books to follow. The end.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, I'm with the 'that's not Rickon' crowd... but that's mostly because it complicates the ending I have in my own mind. So I'm probably completely wrong.

[Honolulu_Blue]

I wish it wasn't Rickon, because I'd hate there to be yet another dead dire wolf, but I'm pretty sure that's Rickon, especially given Osha's presence.

[bhlloy]

I lean towards the thought that it's not Rickon. This would be an awesome way for the north not to forget, a real crowd pleaser - and the timing is interesting. If you were going to do something like this, you would probably do it as soon as the elder Bolton was out of the way, who presumably has seen enough and is cautious enough not to fall for a ruse rather than Ramsey, who is inexperienced and impulsive. It's also interesting to me that he wouldn't kneel/swear an oath. Everything screams they are setting up a double cross.

On the other hand, who willingly goes and puts themselves into the hands of Ramsey like that? Even if that's some poor random farm kid instead of Rickon, the wildling girl is presumably in on it, and she could end up dog food in the first 30 seconds of next weeks episode.

[bhlloy]

DOLA - my other question, and something I'm prepared to be disappointed with I think, is where the fuck is Jon Snow going? He has no idea where any of the remaining Starks are and he's not going to take back the north against an army by himself.

I fear it's a lazy writing decision to a) introduce some dramatic tension and b) drag out the Benny Hill storyline where the Starks run around in circles all around the land trying to bump into one another for a few more episodes, before we finally get a feel good reunion.

Is he going somewhere that I can't think of right now, rather than just saying a big FU to the watch?