Werewolf XLIII - The Big City (Game over)

[Blade6119]

and anxiety may have too...especially with his warrant for you dissapearing and i believe you too both voting me the exact same time last night. He is actually pretty heavily linked to you

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

7-2 but hopefully totally cleared..you dint just vote bsak, you flat out told us he was evil. It mattered little if there were 0 or 100 votes on him, if you say that hes dead.

And im still of the impression there are two of you left and were at end game if we miss, so if there were 3 of you it would be easy to cast him aside(ie, JE started independant).

I was then searched/scanned by LSG after this vote too. (weather you like her results or not)
Blade like I said before do what you want I like you believe this is end game.
I'm leaving work early today so I hope the right decison is made.

[Blade6119]

I think the vote count is

Path - 2
Sndvls - 1

If im not mistaken

[Blade6119]

By the way sndvls, sorry for the late reply but i hit you back up on the other forum. Technically, the game at tempe will be a home game for me too so im happy

[Abe Sargent]

No votes by me yet. I'm leaning SnDvls at this point.

[Abe Sargent]

I'm going to go ahead and vote SnDvls now. I'll try to check back in before deadline to catch up, and its possibl I coul dbe convinced to hop to path.

[Blade6119]

So its 2-2 after his vote and there are 5 players...so basically the fate of the game is in my hands.

Well, i guess what they say about winners always want the ball in their hands when the game is on the line is going to be tested. Let me put some more thought into this

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

By the way sndvls, sorry for the late reply but i hit you back up on the other forum. Technically, the game at tempe will be a home game for me too so im happy

no prob I posted a response there too

[Blade6119]

Anxiety, you going to vote?

[Blade6119]

im leaning path now

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Edition 35

Mob Mayhem

The Big story today has been the complete lack of law and order in the town square. Normally police would provide some disclipline to the chaos of people shouting and yelling for people's heads. Today the police are hard to find, and there have been many cases of pushing, shoving, fighting and even personal attacks.

Shots heard

Just a little bit ago, shots were heard from nearby to the town square. As of yet, the herald has been unable to track down a police representative to get a public statement. We currently are not sure which direction the shots came from, nor do we know the severity of the attack. Anyone who plans to travel to town square today should think of safety first.

Bulletproof vest manufacturer mystified

A few months ago, the herald ran a story on a new bulletproof vest that a local Big City manufacturer had produced. Their claim was that it would be revolutionary in the war to protect people from harm. They felt if every citizen equiped themselves with a bulletproof vest, the number of deaths would drop tenfold. Just today the Big City Vest manufacturers have announced they will be taking the vests off the market. Their spokesperson told the Herald,"We had great hopes that people would cling to our vest.. but the reality is that they did not embrace it. We no longer can sustain the losses in making it so unfortunatly are no longer going to be producing it."

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Anxiety, you going to vote?

Sorry, thought I already had.

Vote SnDVLS

[path12]

So Blade didn't vote? I guess he's covered either way.

[Alan T]

deadline

[Alan T]

Current Judge: Anxiety

In Jail: None

Warrants: None

Injuries: None

Job Openings: None

Pawn Shop items for sell: Closed

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Edition 37

Pawn Shop Closed

The official announcement has been released, the Big City Pawn shop has officially closed for good. The local store stated the inability to keep upper management was the primary factor in the store's closing. It appears local residents will now have to resort to K-mart for their daily needs.

Mob out of control

As previously mentioned in the Herald, the Mob today grew even more unruly as the day went on. Without the influence of a local police force to curtail it, the Mob started looting local stores and resorted to various forms of vandalism. In a heroic effort to try to contain the mob, a brave man wearing some form of body armor tried to hold them back. There just were too many of them, and he ended up dying due to being trampled. Has Big City lost control?

Local stores receive threats

In a new development, most local Big City stores today received a letter that contained a pretty strong threat. The Herald has received a copy of one such letter and have seen that it states the following:

We are taking control of this town. If you do not wish to purchase monthly protection from us, we are afraid very bad things might happen to you. Our representatives will be around weekly to receive payment, starting tommorrow evening.

[SnDvls]

wow...what the hell just happened?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Well, crap. I'm 0 for 2 now. So either SnDvls or Anxiety is the last mafia member. Unfortunately, both of you guys look evil to me. SnDvls could have killed Blade to keep him from voting for him, and Anxiety could have killed him to keep a tie vote and use his power as Head of the Mob to take care of path. Ugh.

[Alan T]

Sorry, didn't bring up weekend schedule. Since there are a few of you left, I will let you all decide. If you want to put in your day actions, and votes to me you can also choose to vote nightfall (meaning your action/vote is final). If you arent sure that you might want to change it then don't choose nightfall.

Any objections with Saturday 9pm EST deadline? If any of you three can't be here then we'll do sunday 9pm EST. But we probably can wrap this game up fairly soon.

[SnDvls]

no prob here PM info sent to Alan

[Abe Sargent]

Vote SnDvls


Nothing will get me to change that vote.

JE, we know either path or SnDvls got the gun from LSG. It wasn't path. SnDvls lied. That's clear. It was an either or proposition, and now we must take out SnDvls. Simple. Elegant even.

-Anxiety

AlanT - you can do any sort of accelerated game that you prefer. Vote tomorrow at 9:00 pm, until we get three votes in an hour or a few, whatever.

[path12]

Good game, guys.

[Alan T]

The Big City Herald
Final Edition

Game Moderator killed

In what can only be classified as senseless violence, while trying to set up a schedule for weekend play the game moderator has been killed. The final scenes went as follows:

In a shocking turn of events, the people of Big City could not be contained any longer. Full bore chaos had set in. Parts of the city was set on fire, people left and right were being injured. Without the police, no one could keep the city together. In what was a last ditch effort to save the town the good doctor and town judge tried to keep everyone calm.

Right in front of everyone's eyes on the steps to town hall, Sndvls walks up from behind the two and shoots Jonathan Ezarik in the back. Anxiety looks around to try to find someone, anyone to turn to for help but finds no friends around him. The Mafia was completely in control of Big City.

Game Over, the Mafia has won

Major victories:

Barkeep
Daddytorgo
Sndvls


Minor victories:

Anxiety
Bsak
Imthecrew
Marathoner
Narcizo
St.Cronin
Tyrith

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gm comments about the game:

A few things that I didn't forsee that I think had some effect on the game.. The Biggest failure for the good guys was the lack of making use of items in the game. There were quite a number of items that could have helped save lifes and hardly any of the good guys took advantage of them:

Bulletproof vest - If shot as a mafia night action, you are not instantly dead. You are in critical condition. If not treated before the end of the next game day, you will die. If the doctor treats you, then you will progressively get better over the course of two days.

Bandages - Needed by the doctor to save lifes (as said in his personal role PM to start the game)

Knifes - If facing a kidnap, pickpocket or mafia attack that does not use a gun, the knife gives you a 50/50 chance of fighting off the attacker

Gun - Only really an advantage to people with daytime kill actions. Downside to using a gun is if a gun was found in a search warrant, the ballistics trace would tell the police which of the investigated crimes that gun was used for.

----------------------------------------------

The other big hurdle the good side had is that I don't think the detectives ever made full use of their abilities. Part of that was due to Tyrith dying so early. Not sure why he came out openly so early in the game, but in doing so, it really kept information detectives received to a minimum throughout the game.

Detectives had the following actions:

Search warrant - Needed a judge to issue. The most powerful search, would find fingerprint info./dna info and any items the person had. Would be able to cross reference any of that with anything else in the police database.

Investigate Crimescene - With 3 detectives, its pretty important for 1 of the detectives to have investigated murder scenes to collect the ballistics info/fingerprints/etc. With one of the detectives dying day 1, this became a problem.

Research Person in the computer - This really was a fairly powerless search, all it really did was tell a detective info that a different detective had found out about someone. It really was mainly meant as a way for a detective to prove themselves to another detective for trust. I think this action was used too much in the game even though I pretty much came out and suggested to the detectives it not be used

--------------------------------------------------------------------

To start the game, I was worried that the bad guys would lose really fast. I don't see any logical reason to expect the only two mafia members to be outed on day 1 and 2. They were smart in how they used the underground messageboard to find another 2 people to quickly recruit in and save the game for them. The mafia could not convert anyone who was good. The only options they had was to convert one of the 4 people who started bad but not part of the mafia family, or try to convert one of the neutrals. (For instance Bsak as a neutral decided to convert on his own, Chief Rum decided to turn good on his own). The bad guys were given a way to get alot of people to their side, but only people who already started off shady or at best neutral. To combat that, the good guys were given several roles who together would have no problem piecing together who the shady people were vs not shady. It then would have been a problem figuring out which were neutral and which were bad.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Roles:

Mafia:

1. Boss St.cronin -
2. Mafia Heir (setup man) DaddyTorgo
-----------
3. Thug Marathoner
4. Kidnapper Sndvls
5. Hacker Barkeep49
6. Pickpocket ImTheCrew



Detectives:
7. 1 Lathum
8. 2 Ntndeacon
9. 3 Lonestargirl
11.Police Dispatcher Tyrith
12.Firewall specialist Anxiety



Professionals:

13.Banker Narcizo
14.Doctor Jonathan Ezarik
15.Janitor Swaggs
16.Jeweler Blade6119



Independants:

10.Jailer Path12
17.Pawn Shop owner Bsak16
18.Escaped Dillusional mental patient Hoopsguy
19.Card player kingfc22
20.Sports Gambler Chief Rum

[SnDvls]

vote SnDvls Judge

[Barkeep49]

What could Tyrith do as police dispatcher?

[Barkeep49]

Well I played a real poor game. I knew I was becoming the next Don and left my money in the bank so that when I inherited the money I suddenly had a large addition of money in my account. Alan reminded me it was in the bank, as a hint for me to take it out, but I thought it'd be even more suspicious to withdraw the money, not knowing the banker only got nightly updates and so I'd have been able to move the money safely. I also blew it with Lathum as it took me WAY too long to realize he was a police officer. I should have realized this right away but didn't. The game was a lot of fun and I'm amazed SnDvls was able to pull it out. Great job!

[SnDvls]

okay so like I'm going to be one of the most hated players in this game.

I was user #6 on the UMB and Kidnapper with my 1st major victory being to join the mafia family.

My first post on the UMB was that I wanted a gun and ammo. Bsak was the first response and offerd them for like $1200...I started w/ $500. Also the mafia contacted me privatly on there as well to take out Anxiety ($500) or Blade ($800) I told them sure, but I needed some money up front and got $400. I then told Bsak I found another gun and to forget it...then after I got the extra $400 tried to get it again at a well below market price. Soon there after I got recruited and accepted into the mafia...this was the same day Blade was accusing St. C and I as his #'s 1 & 2 suspects (he got lucky with me as I wasn't bad until the accusation)....***continued***

[SnDvls]

***after joining the mafia I got a 2nd major victory condition (kidnap DaddyTorgo and hold him for 3 days then kill him). I also didn't let bsak know I was in the mafia, but we had confirmed who each other was at this point so he knew I was bad and I knew he was "an underground arms dealer" as we called him on the UMB. Meanwhile DT & St.C had made contact w/ Barkeep and were in the process of recruiting him...though they didn't know it was him. Mistake #1 for the mafia happened here, we had agreed to recruit BK, but St. C went for Anxiety and it failed, then he was voted out and now we're down to 2 members again. *****

[SnDvls]

Oh I forgot I lied about my role to St. C & DT at first as I mulled over my 2nd Major victory condition..then decided to come clean and let them know about it, but I lied to them again and said I gain a new ability...to kidnap

****DT and I decide to bring in BK and keep Bsak as the next guy in, Bsak is still lead to believe I'm not in the "family" yet. Bsak is brought in and the gun that DT had is lost with his lynch and he killed with it. I get Body Armor and gloves to help with my killing. Then we lose BK and DT, a couple lucky lynches and lucky kidnaps (Tyrith and Lathum both gave me way too much info as Hostages, but I think they thought I'd let them go...it was never my intention once I got their role from them) and Bsak and I are still in it...then I make a huge error....I needed to put a vote in as I was going to be out so I voted Bsak to make a 3-way tie @ 2...turns out everyone piled on him and he outs me in the thread....I'm cleared by Swaggs just prior to this after Blade got no info about me a few days earlier..****

[Alan T]

Mafia:

1. Boss - The current boss is the one who had to put the kill orders in. The design was the boss had the ability to try to hire out people outside of the mafia to do their work for them so the boss would never show up on police scans or such. Most scans of the boss would have him show up like other townspeople with decents amounts of money. With the way the first day went, that totally made that not happen.

2. Mafia Heir (setup man) - The Heir was on the mafia side, but in some ways designed to cause tension in the mafia. For the Heir to win, the boss had to die. The heir also had the ability to set up someone else once for a crime that they committed. Obviously this never happened either in this game.
-----------
3. Thug - The Thug was designed as a good person to carry out most of the kills. His special ability was that he could rarely have his kill action occur before the imposed 6pm EST time for the mafia actions. ie: he could kill someone first thing in the morning.

4. Kidnapper - Was able to kidnap someone once every 3 days. This role was set up as a way to get info from other people, extort others or even be a kill action. Sndvls ended up only using this to kill both Tyrith and Lathum. Lathum had a knife, but at that point, Sndvls had a gun so was able to kidnap him.

5. Hacker - This was the other info gaining person in the mafia. The hacker basically would give rough clues of what type of people they looked at. The hacker also could get quite rich if they hacked the banker. The downside to the hacker is they could easily be caught if they did not spend money to use the internet cafe. Since Barkeep never used the internet cafe, he was found fairly easily. That didn't come into play though since his lynch was moreso due to money handling

6. Pickpocket - pretty self explanitory. The main thing here is if the pickpocket joined the mafia, he gained a bigger role (Anyone who met their personal goals got rewarded with either a new role, new ability or reward challenge. The pickpocket would then have been able to break into homes to still money or items. He never made it into the mafia though.



Detectives: - Already explained
7. 1
8. 2
9. 3
11.Police Dispatcher - The police dispatcher could once a day send a message to all alive detectives. They could tell them anything they knew other than mention their name to try to setup a CoT. They found out any actions the detectives did, they found out any time a crime was reported and they had the ability to help direct the detectives as a whole to let them know what each other were doing. This never happened and was probably a huge missing piece for the good guys.

12.Firewall specialist - You probably figured out what he was able to do. Anxiety probably was the good guy who played his role to its fullest capability (Narcizo also did probably)



Professionals:

13.Banker - Each night at 9pm EST the banker received a listing of everyone's accounts in the bank. This led to the actual capture of Barkeep during the game.

14.Doctor - A wounded patient can do day actions that do not require movement such as voting, warrants, etc. A critical patient can not do any actions. The doctor if healing a wounded patient healed them (such as he did with Hoopsguy), if he heals a critical patient, that patient becomes only wounded. A critical patient not treated had a chance of dying. Since almost no one used body armor or knifes, the doctor was more insignificant than he should have been.

15.Janitor - His main goal was to help the good guys win and pick up money on the way. The janitor was poor, so poor to not be able to afford protection. if he found someone like the banker, he would have found some account slip and been able to get money from that account. If he found someone who kept their money at home, he had a chance of "finding" some of their money (such as Blade) Everyone else they just found two small clues that could be pieced together to explain someone's role, but not what allegiance someone had.

16.Jeweler - This role was another role designed to try to have a good role that could seem shady. The jewler needed to find two rare gems that they could buy. Along the way they could find out info on how much money someone started with by their ring. Since the money was evenly split throughout both sides, this was meant to be more of a red herring than help. In this game's case, Blade felt with his gut that DaddyTorgo and Cronin were guilty and then used his "evidence" to support his beliefs. So he did well at guessing who the bad guys were, but got lucky with his evidence. If he had scanned Narcizo and Lonestargirl instead at the start, they would have had rings similar to what he saw on Cronin and DT. If the Jeweler met his goal, he would have been rewarded a one time ability to look at someone's family jewels and do a research on that family history and identify if they came from the mafia or not.


Independants:

10.Jailer - This role was setup as the tripwire for the detectives. He was on the city government payroll and thus showed up as such for Lonestargirl when she scanned PAth. He was neutral however, and his goal was to make money. The idea was more people would have been in prison that Path then could have interacted with and caused some alternate scenerios (such as King using his 1700 he had to break himself out of prison). Path instead decided to take up a job change offer and became good.

17.Pawn Shop owner - Neutral role designed to want money. because of such he should have been willing to get all kinds of items out to people. I don't think bsak necessarily played the role poorly, I think people were just hesitant to get items other than a few exceptions.

18.Escaped Dillusional mental patient - This was my fun role of the game. He had a list of people randomly picked who were out to get him. His goal was to see to the death of them to meet his objective. It was pretty funny for me when he was elected judge first, and I was sad he died. His list was:

Mental patient targets:

4 Bsak16
8 Lathum
18 Chief Rum
20 Lonestargirl
14 Barkeep49
12 Blade6119
16 Marathoner
17 Narcizo
2 Jonathan Ezarik

19.Card player
20.Sports Gambler

- These two gambler roles were something I wanted to try out. I'm not sure if I liked how out of the game they felt. They were the true neutrals of the game. I liked how Chief involved his role into the story though, king's was a bit more difficult to do so though. I gave both an option on switching jobs if they wanted to however.. The main focus here was that both of them needing money could be bought.. and with the underground board the mafia could have paid them off for their votes perhaps. That never happened either though.

[SnDvls]

****then I get the head of lynch mob role 2 days in a row and plan out my strategy...protect CR and also try and recuit him...I'm in a win/win either way...he says no and he's saved from a lynch people will go after him tomorrow...he says yes and I vote him and he turns up mafia I still get another day....next day I get the lynch mob again and put it on Blade and make my last effort to get at least one more mafia member to help me...everyone pretty much trusts him at this point so it was a last ditch effort...he refuses and now he's also safe from lynch...oops!!!....it was a hell of a ride that is for sure....soooo

sorry Hoops for killing you on your B-day
sorry Narc for killing you with one vote
sorry bsak for killing you with a misplaced vote
sorry everyone else....it was a hell of a game Alan my thoughts will follow shortly.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Bandages - Needed by the doctor to save lifes (as said in his personal role PM to start the game)

Wow. I totally missed this in the PM. In the end, I don't think it mattered. The only person I had the chance to heal was Hoopsguy. On the day he was killed, I visited him in the hospital because I wasn't sure if he needed more medical attention after Marathoner's attack, and since that was my one day action, when he got attacked later in the day I couldn't do anything to save him. I think the rest of the players that were killed I didn't find out about until they were already dead.

All in all, I pretty much sucked in this game. Not being able to be around during the day kept me out of the flow of the game and I never got a good handle on anyone. I'm glad SnDvls killed me there at the end to prevent me from having to make another mistake and voting for Anxiety (as I was leaning). It's probably a good thing that this will be my last WW game.

Thanks to Alan for a good game. Although I didn't get to dive into it like other games because of work, I did enjoy it.

[SnDvls]

oh ya and pass Blade his ring now

[SnDvls]

thanks Alan very fun game.

I think we were able to exploit the UMB a bit as you could see between bsak and I. This was pretty easy for the bad roles to do as no one could really find out who we were. I only posted one "public" message on there and it started to die down later in the game...but a great idea.

I felt like the mafia was behind the 8-ball all game and part of that is probally to Blade's ring check of St. C and a lucky hunch too...I never thought being down 8-1 would get me here that is for sure...a little luck went a long way. Might have been too many "seer" type roles in this game IMO. Plus with leaving evidence behind at crime scenes it made it even that much harder.

I always had to be careful about the "job postings" as I never got any info on one and never really knew if one was open as the newspaper never said until Bsak was killed so that really threw me for a loop.

Again over all great game I never thought I'd be here.

thanks all again

[Alan T]

Oh, and about the head of the lynch and the lucky person of the day.. those were two other things I wanted to try out..

Every day randomly one person was selected as each. Head of the lynch mob had that day's tiebreaker, and could pick one person to be immune from the next day's lynch. (Mini-duke powers).

The lucky person of the day could find either: Money, an item or a gem.

I don't think I liked how either ended up in the game though, mostly because random.org hates me passionately. Was something I wanted to try but won't do it again.

I also think that I liked the 24 hour clock a good bit, but I think some things need to be tweaked some with it to not give a bigger advantage to the bad guys.

Also, thanks everyone for playing. I hope you enjoyed it and tried to drop a personal pm note to each of you as you died. A few times in the game I wasn't super sharp because of everything I am dealing with, so it wasn't my smoothest game ever but I didn't see much that change the end outcome in any way. Personal apologies to Chief, who I did totally mess up with. I had a note to send from him all typed out and ready, and then never sent it (got distracted by doctors or something and never remembered I didn't send it).

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

thanks Alan very fun game.

I think we were able to exploit the UMB a bit as you could see between bsak and I. This was pretty easy for the bad roles to do as no one could really find out who we were. I only posted one "public" message on there and it started to die down later in the game...but a great idea.

I felt like the mafia was behind the 8-ball all game and part of that is probally to Blade's ring check of St. C and a lucky hunch too...I never thought being down 8-1 would get me here that is for sure...a little luck went a long way. Might have been too many "seer" type roles in this game IMO. Plus with leaving evidence behind at crime scenes it made it even that much harder.

I always had to be careful about the "job postings" as I never got any info on one and never really knew if one was open as the newspaper never said until Bsak was killed so that really threw me for a loop.

Again over all great game I never thought I'd be here.

thanks all again

I actually intended for the bad guys to use the UMB to that extent. I felt it would give an advantage to the bad guys, but thats one of the reason there were so many roles that also gained information back. I think at times both sides got frustrated with limitations set on their roles too. Basically the idea was to try to give everyone in the game some kind of action or involvement. Doing so often tips the game into the good guy's favor though, so I needed a balance for the bad guys.

[Alan T]

Oh forgot, a few other things I didn't explain.

When the first judge in the game was killed by the mafia, it triggered a new job for people to apply for. The bodyguard role that path ended up getting. They basically had to sacrifice all of their money, items and couldn't do any vote or action for a day for a role they didn't have all of the info on before hand.

Once he got the role, he was given pretty strict limitations. He was not allowed to say he was the bodyguard to anyone. He was not allowed to guard himself, and he was not allowed to guard the same person more than once in the game. If he guarded someone who was attacked by any physical mean (Mafia, lynchmob, etc) He would throw himself in front of them and save them, taking their damage for them. He was given a bulletproof vest so if he had been shot, he wouldnt have been killed, but would have died without doctor's care. So if he got lucky with one protect, he could have had alot of trust in the game, and really made it very hard for the bad guys to win.


The other latent triggered action was the first time the judge made an error on their decision and sentenced an innocent man (kingfc22). It then gave the head of the mafia a one time power for the next day to block one of the judge's warrants. He had to choose beforehand if it would be the search or arrest warrant. In this game Sndvls picked the Search warrant, which Anxiety almost immediately used to issue for a search of Sndvls. That created some fun drama, but nothing much ever came from it I don't think. It wasn't blocked because it was of Sndvls, he just got lucky there. If sndvls had been searched, they would have found a gun that did multiple killings, and all kinds of other incriminating evidence. Even if the crime scenes had not been investigated, its really hard for me to think you all wouldn't have voted him out. I think king's death is probably what won the game for Sndvls.

[LoneStarGirl]

This game was extremely fun. I am glad I played, Alant you have some of the best games.

I never saw where it was hinted that detectives not use the computers to do their daily activities. I thought it was the best way to track people but in the end it didn't help me convict anybody, just clear people.

Also, I never did get to send my gun to anybody. I was going to do it after I saw if Cheif was good or bad. And seeing how chief was good, i probably would have sent it back to sndvls... so we would have been screwed either way.

[Lathum]

I got the message about the computer so I never used that option.

To be honest I wasn't sure how to play my role, there were some people I had semi cleared but to post that nformation would have gotten me killed so I wasn't sure what to do.

Once I was kidnapped I tried to convince my kidnappers I was the poker player and they could turn me, I was hoping to go under deep cover like Leonardo but that same day king came out and killed me. Had I gotten away with it who knows what would have happened.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I got the message about the computer so I never used that option.

To be honest I wasn't sure how to play my role, there were some people I had semi cleared but to post that nformation would have gotten me killed so I wasn't sure what to do.

Once I was kidnapped I tried to convince my kidnappers I was the poker player and they could turn me, I was hoping to go under deep cover like Leonardo but that same day king came out and killed me. Had I gotten away with it who knows what would have happened.

I think thats one thing that was shortsighted on my part. The rules would have made it impossible for you to have converted since you were good. I wonder if instead, for the detectives, I should have given the possibility of going undercover or such like you say. I honestly didn't think the bad guys would have tried converting people without finding them via the UMB is all. I assumed the progression would have been:

Set up conversations through UMB, develop trust, attempt to convert.

When they didn't have a convert target, they just kill someone good. I think Blade hunting down Cronin and DT at the start really made alot of that rushed for the bad guys and put them in a real bad spot. I honestly started to worry day 1 if this would be the shortest WW game in history with both bad guys getting lynched day 1 and day 2

[kingfc22]

Alan - What would have happened if I would have been online and gone to the docks? What job would I have been given?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Alan - What would have happened if I would have been online and gone to the docks? What job would I have been given?

The way I had it was there were only a handful of people who could switch jobs. (This was to keep some balance in the game). If multiple people went, then I did the following:

1) First person offered bodyguard role. They wern't described the full role but had to accept/decline with the rough introduction. If they turn it down, it went to the next person and so on until someone accepts it.

2) If another person still waiting for a job offer (whether second in line, third, fourth, whatever) they would have been given the chance at being the courthouse page. The page would have had the same powers as was executed by sndvls only activated if the judge sentenced an innocent person, but instead of the mafia boss getting the role the way it happened, it would have been a mafia informant role with that ability, but your powers wouldn't activate until the same latent trigger.

3) Anyone else that still hadn't been given an opportunity (however unlikely) would have been offered a job that opened next (pawn shop or jeweler.) Blade later on took the pawn shop role in fact.


I didn't really see most of the job moving to be key in the game, the main role that was key was the bodyguard. I mainly wanted to give those who had roles that were a bit more on the outside to be able to change to something else if they wern't enjoying it. Some people I assumed just wouldn't have much fun being a sports better and they came to play WW. I think in that sense, I was lucky at who got some of the roles, I thought Chief was a perfect person to be the sports better. I didn't get a good feel for how you (king) felt about the gambler.

[Abe Sargent]

And if Blade had joined us in lynchign SnDvls, the game would have been ours. Ah well, at least I was the last good guy left in teh end,.

[st.cronin]

Unbelievable game by SnDvls, just a hall of fame performance.

Also another great game by Alan, probably my favorite yet.

[Swaggs]

If Narcizo would have come out as the Banker a day earlier, I would have known that SnDvls was in the mafia. The clue I found in his trash was that he had a fine cloth napkin and a baby's rattle, so I assumed he was a well-to-do businessman from the napkin and that he was a good person, since he had a small child. Once I found out that JE was the doctor, I knew (since most of the remaining players' roles were out in the open) that SnDvls was either the Banker or mafia (likewise, I felt the same about Narcizo). SnDvls whacked me at just the right time.

Thanks for the game, Alan. The janitor role was pretty fun--I was surprised that I was not killed earlier, since I seemed to have some seer-like powers. I thought I played a pretty good game, with the exceptions being trusting SnDvls for too long and mentioning that (and probably outting) LSG had a picture of Chuck Norris, as once I heard about the Erik Estrada thing, I figured that each of the detectives must have had a sort of popular TV detective hero that they identified with.

[hoopsguy]

Had fun with the game. My biggest regret is that I didn't get Blade lynched on Day 2 - he was on my list and Cronin was not Seriously, I wonder just how different the game would have been if that had taken place.

I failed miserably at getting my targeted people eliminated - they kept being runner-up and the mob didn't do me any favors.

Really liked the game concept, wish I could have been around a little longer as it was potentially a fun role. But hard for me at times to put together coherent arguments and then act unstable in the next post ...

[Blade6119]

I waited too long on the final day to play sndvls...as Alan can attest, i was 99.9% sure it was sndvls...i was trying to walk him into a trap. I had a huge case ready to be posted to sway JE and win the thing, but sndvls killed me(even thought i could have won with him, the bastard).

I was right with DT, cronin, and sndvls(the three i listed at the time ironically, whether sndvls was evil yet or not). I mentioned bsak, but let it slide. Barkeep totally fooled me.


I think one of my biggest complaints with this game was seeing some mafia die and it not say mafia(ITC) while others did(barkeep). Linked to this, it would be nice in the future if the lynch post says who died...it got a little annoying having to keep going back to the main post.

Other then that, it was a good game...we had some great breaks early, then some terrible breaks late...I think it was tough with so many seers who could do very little(including the detectives) and the ability of the mafia to convert anyone we even remotely tried to clear.

Without DT and cronin dying early(and bsak setting himself up somewhat), i think we would have gotten blown out..so in that regard, im not sure how balanced i believe it was. But it was still great play by sndvls to keep being tomorrows lynch(after 3 seer scans too)

[Narcizo]

That has to have been the most frustrating couple of days I've ever experienced. I was (almost literally) screaming at you that it was SnDvls. I had presumed that LSG had been hinting at path being the detective. I thought he started neutral as the ex-Ops and then switched to a detective, which was why he lost money and LSG gained money at the same time. As soon as LSG made it clear that path wasn't the detective and that whoever was the detective wasn't picking up warrants I was pretty sure it was SnDvls. Then when Anxiety said the search warrant on SnDvls disappeared it pretty much confirmed it. (As I hinted in a PM with Alan).

Grrrrr.....

On the plus side I got a bad guy and I didn't even think he was one. I targeted Barkeep for purely selfish reasons, to ensure my victory conditions. I honestly didn't think he was in the mob.

[DaddyTorgo]

THAT'S FRIKKIN HOT...WE WON!!!!!

WOOOOOOOOOO WOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[DaddyTorgo]

i <3 SNDVLS!!!!