The Trump Presidency – 2016

[NobodyHere]

What if you don't watch the BBC? And how much is this license? Is it mandatory?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

What if you don't watch the BBC? And how much is this license? Is it mandatory?

It doesn't matter if you don't watch the BBC. It's a tax on TVs for watching live programming (you can get out of it if your TV is only to watch DVDs, but I don't know how easy that is to prove - it does seem that if you fully stream the tax may not be applicable). It's an annual fee of "£157.50 for a colour licence and £53 for a black and white licence"

Television licensing in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia

[NobodyHere]

Do you need it for streaming services like Amazon Prime or Netflix?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

Do you need it for streaming services like Amazon Prime or Netflix?

I think you can get around it if you are fully streaming. Though I don't know if UK full streamers eschew rabbit ears - which I find most cord cutters use in addition to full streaming services in the US.

[JPhillips]

A 17 year old has been arrested for the Twitter - Bitcoin hack.

[AlexB]

You only need a license if you are able to receive the BBC I think, so if you only stream and don’t have a BBC iPlayer account I think you’d be OK.

But if you have cable/satellite, even the Freeview ones, BBC is included in literally every package, so again you’d need a license in that case.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by molson

I know he's said some stuff, and it's all his responsibility, but I don't think Herman Cain had anything to do with his twitter account. I'm pretty sure that account posted a few of its quota of 10X daily snarky conservative remarks and memes after he died.

There is definitely someone who runs it which is sad considering they were keeping up the facade that this was no big deal as their boss lie dying in a hospital bed. But there are a bunch of videos and other stuff where he makes irresponsible statements on his own.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by panerd

And this board is overwhelmingly liberal (someone will chime in it's Trump but the previous 20 years shows the balance has never been 50/50 so I tend to respond to the majority I guess more than JiMGa and maybe CUTiger and Edward?)

The last time this was mentioned, we literally had 3 members say we used to be Republicans in 2000 before the party went wacko right wing. This board was far more even during the era of W.

Originally Posted by panerd

My god if it were about a lifetime criminal like George Floyd and people were questioning his life choices the place would go apeshit with the "Racist!" but this black guy supports Trump so fire away about him not liking masks and I guess deserving to die. Which I fully support wearing masks and wear one myself but what are we on like month 2 or 3 of this? You guys act like you knew masks were the answer back in April and that these outrageous case numbers aren't from bars where people don't wear masks anyways.

You have an amazing skill at completely missing the point.

I await for you to scold us all for the next time someone posts a Darwin Award thread.

[NobodyHere]

So Trump apparently offered to extend the unemployment benefits by a week and Pelosi rejected it.

Is this a good tactical move by Pelosi? You know I personally don't like the payment amount but I understand it is popular.

What would've been the downside of accepting the offer? In all likelihood it would've just died in the senate if she had and she could've just blamed Republicans.

By rejecting the offer it opens the door to put some of the blame on the Democrats for holding up payments.

[stevew]

They’ll just backdate the benefits so giving Donny a short term win isn’t even worth bothering with.

[CU Tiger]

All I can add to the discussion regarding Cain is this, and I speak only for myself not a projection of what I think anyone else's feelings should be.

I'm saddened by the loss of human life. A life that did both good and bad for others, like almost all lives. I cant celebrate his ignorance - in the same way I cant laugh at a toddler burned by touching a hot stove for the first time. The toddler didn't know better. Now if you are a professional fire juggler and you burn yourself, I'll probably chuckle.

I choose to believe Cain was ignorant - not intentionally tempting fate.

Should he have known better? I think reasonable people can disagree. But I don't think he intended to risk his health to prove a point. I think he thought his behavior wasn't risky. He was wrong and paid the ultimate price. For that I feel for his family. I can't feel joy for the death of another.
(I will admit I openly celebrated the death of both Sadam and Bin Laden, and have later been conflicted by those feelings.)

Personally I sink further and further into seclusion as I get more and more certain this divide is tearing us apart further and our angst and anguish is nothing more than fuel for the control machine that's robbing us all blind...

[Atocep]

The reason Pelosi said no was even a last minute extension wouldn't be seen for at least a couple of weeks or more (depending on the state) so any temporary extension would be pointless and likely confusing. There was no way to prevent most people from seeing a lapse in benefits by the time work on the bill started in senate.

I also don't see backdating of benefits happening. Just getting the extra money included was a massive strain on unemployment systems.

[bronconick]

McConnell dismissed the Senate for a three day weekend, so even if Pelosi had passed something nothing would have happened.

[RainMaker]

He wasn't a toddler. Cain was a highly educated man who worked and ran major companies in this country. Someone who has faced deadly health conditions in the past and followed the science. In fact, his early stance on the virus appears to be taking it serious until he realized that might create a rift with Trump supporters.

It is sad for his family that he cared more about a retweet from some marshmallow brained twat than spending more time with his family. It would be tough to accept how unimportant he thought you were.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

Never heard of the term but reading what you linked I will take it as a compliment!

EDIT: And this board is overwhelmingly liberal (someone will chime in it's Trump but the previous 20 years shows the balance has never been 50/50 so I tend to respond to the majority I guess more than JiMGa and maybe CUTiger and Edward?)

Are you upset that there aren't more pro-virus people here? Or people who don't think it exists? Is this an issue that needs "both sides"?

If some anti-vax person on the left (of which there are many) contracted measles and died, I would laugh at their stupidity too.

Like I said, this is just Darwin Award shit, not anything political.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

Should he have known better? I think reasonable people can disagree.

This is where I have to vehemently disagree. He should have known better. Scientists and medical professionals have been trying to hammer home to limit interactions, keep distance, and to wear masks. This has been known for months. It's only through misinformation and, frankly, obstinacy that folks are saying "Nope, don't have to. Because we don't believe you; we know better."

[albionmoonlight]

I also think that Pelosi has a lot of leverage here.

The administration needs the bill more than the Dems do.

The Dems want something to pass. But that's more a function of wanting to help people who need it. The GOP needs something to pass because they are seen as "in charge."

If the delay spooks the markets, then the admin will end up giving the Dems a lot more of what they want to get something passed.

So, yeah, it sucks that people's lives are caught up in this game. It never should have gotten to this point. But, since it is at this point, the Dems may as well play to win (first time for everything and all that).

[Alan T]

I am about as far left on any political spectrum test that I have ever taken as I think I could go.

That said, many of the comments here I personally can’t agree with. The reason that I am so far left politically I believe is compassion. Compassion for those that need our help and so often ignored by the government or the ultra wealthy.

I absolutely do not feel that cheering on the death of someone or even saying that they got what they deserve shows that compassion.

I find the entire thing tragic and it saddens me that people are needlessly dying because of politics and agendas. I don’t want to wish that on someone just because they believe differently than me, or even actively work against my causes.

If that is the point we are at in this country, we have a horrible time coming ahead for all of us I fear.


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[ISiddiqui]

And it isn't like the House didn't pass a 2nd CARES act like 6 weeks ago or something. I mean the GOP only coming to the table a week before unemployment benefits ends and trying to talk about the Dems won't negotiate is the most ridiculous nonsense.

[Atocep]

What makes this worse is I saw an estimate yesterday that roughly $21.5 billion in back rent is currently owed across the country and ApartmentList estimated 12 million people are in danger of being evicted if the $600 unemployment and hold on evictions ends.

[cuervo72]

Oh, I am not cheering Cain's demise. But I think it is silly to try to argue that he wasn't given information on how to mitigate his risk. And I do hope that his serves as a cautionary tale, if not a wake-up call. I don't have much confidence it will, but hope it does. I keep thinking that eventually people will begin to act prudently.

[JPhillips]

These fuckin guys.

Impotus Americanus is one of the heaviest leaders in the animal kingdom, and is famously known to be an orange, ruddy color not found in nature. pic.twitter.com/8ccudG6krq

— The Lincoln Project (@ProjectLincoln) July 31, 2020

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CU Tiger

All I can add to the discussion regarding Cain is this, and I speak only for myself not a projection of what I think anyone else's feelings should be.

I'm saddened by the loss of human life. A life that did both good and bad for others, like almost all lives. I cant celebrate his ignorance - in the same way I cant laugh at a toddler burned by touching a hot stove for the first time. The toddler didn't know better. Now if you are a professional fire juggler and you burn yourself, I'll probably chuckle.

I choose to believe Cain was ignorant - not intentionally tempting fate.

Should he have known better? I think reasonable people can disagree. But I don't think he intended to risk his health to prove a point. I think he thought his behavior wasn't risky. He was wrong and paid the ultimate price. For that I feel for his family. I can't feel joy for the death of another.
(I will admit I openly celebrated the death of both Sadam and Bin Laden, and have later been conflicted by those feelings.)

I think many of us are a lot closer than we are apart. Sure, I think you and I disagree about how bad COVID is for younger people and how much risk we should take on as a society ("business vs lives" sort of debate). But that's a matter of degrees versus binary differences.

I think all of us agree that 74 is part of the "at risk" demographic. Yes, there's the Dan Patrick "I'll die for the economy" types (of course we all know from the Texas GOP convention debacle that he'll never die for it but he'll volunteer for you to) or the "COVID is a complete hoax" folks.

But for everyone else, I think we all agree that older folks are most at risk and shouldn't be at large gatherings.

I do think there's a disagreement about whether he should know better. And, again, not binary but on a sliding scale.

I'm sure we can all agree that if you told Herman Cain (and he believed you, ala Bill and Ted) "if you go to this rally, you will die", he would not go. I'm sure he thought he wasn't going to die or he wouldn't have gone.

But, considering what we talked about above: risk group and large gathering. And compound that with the fact that it's a group of people who by and large think this isn't real so I doubt they've been diligent about social distancing. And the staff in the advance team who were reported to be ill (though, who knows, maybe they were nowhere near where he would have been). That's a lot of risk to pile up. Though, yeah, we as humans are really bad at really measuring risk.

Can we at least agree that it's probably a really bad idea for people over 60 to attend a political rally (protest, crowded store, etc)? And that they have at least some percentage of culpability over the outcome? You could argue that it doesn't matter. But I think it matters because he's been pushing hard against some of the protections that would have saved him.

This is of course a completely different issue than feeling empathy for a fellow human being, his friends, and his family. I mentioned above - it's hard with someone who is "distant", not even really a person to us - to feel real empathy with that. Is the world worse for a person having died needlessly? Yes. Is it sad for family and friends? I'm sure. I don't personally feel it any more than any other person who died as I didn't have a personal connection.

And I don't want to get too much into my utilitarian calculations because they even feel ghoulish to me. But if one person dying saves hundreds more "trolley problem" style, I can't not consider it. That doesn't mean I also can't feel bad for that person who died to save many others.

Personally I sink further and further into seclusion as I get more and more certain this divide is tearing us apart further and our angst and anguish is nothing more than fuel for the control machine that's robbing us all blind...

I think that's a sentiment that many of us would agree upon.

Though I don't know how to fix it. It's something I struggle with a lot right now. I want to try and find common ground. But, at the same time - it's very hard to tell who is trying to act in good faith and who just wants to burn it down or who just wants to watch it burn. And, yes, many of us are genuinely concerned in ways we have never felt in our lifetime so we feel the stakes are really high.

SI

[BYU 14]

Holy shit, if nothing else Lincoln Project is raising the bar really high for the future of attack ads in terms of creativity and humor. I would pay to see the rage fits Trump flies into when he sees some of these for the first time.

[ISiddiqui]

That's amazing. I need that ad to be on Fox News in DC!

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[Galaril]

This is an excellent albeit opinion article that touches on a lot of the things I have thought and think about related to the future of the US and how we ALL got here. For the record and hopefully I am not going to look back in 15 years to say I called it but don’t think we will break up into separate countries or groups of states. Well at least not in my life time.....I hope.

Could America split up?

[SirFozzie]

So... Apparently the Turtle has told Republican senators that if they need to distance themselves from the President to get reelected that he's ok with it. I'm wonderingif the night of the long knives is truly underway. Hope is only that right now however

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Galaril

This is an excellent albeit opinion article that touches on a lot of the things I have thought and think about related to the future of the US and how we ALL got here. For the record and hopefully I am not going to look back in 15 years to say I called it but don’t think we will break up into separate countries or groups of states. Well at least not in my life time.....I hope.

Could America split up?

Thats a helluva read. nicely done.

[GrantDawg]

Sure, opening schools will

Some 260 cases of the coronavirus have been tied to attendees and staff at a North Georgia children’s camp in June, according to a report released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, one of the largest known superspreading events... https://t.co/C0v2ZWvdUn

— Atlanta News (@AtlNewsNow) July 31, 2020

be fine.

[GrantDawg]

45% 0f teachers/admistrators getting it wouldn't be a big deal, right?

Here's a new CDC study which shows COVID-19 "spread efficiently" at a Georgia youth overnight camp. 44% of kids/staff were infected.

There is no mention of hospitalizations or deaths.https://t.co/LPbC2d1TLk pic.twitter.com/bKfCy8LFDb

— Jamie Dupree (@jamiedupree) July 31, 2020

[Lathum]

More on the Georgia outbreak, it’s basically a what not to do manual.

260 campers test positive for COVID-19 after stay at a Georgia YMCA camp | PBS NewsHour

I have mixed feeling about the schooling like most people. Our district sent out their plan last night. Its really hard to gauge the risk bs the risk to their mental well being. Then there is the teachers health. I was at the beach with a friend who is a high school teacher. She said she’s 100% planning on getting it.

[JPhillips]

I was told yesterday that we won't necessarily be notified if a student in one of my classes tests positive.

I'm absolutely expecting to get it this Fall.

[Ksyrup]

I've been thinking in these terms for several months. I don't think it is likely mainly for practical reasons, but I see it as possible in the next 20-30 years. I value diversity of opinion, so this isn't about wanting to be rid of people who don't share the exact same opinion on a variety of issues that I do. But what we lack is a basic consensus on issues that shouldn't be dividing us. And that is definitely a basis on which splitting the country could occur.

[PilotMan]

I will have one at high school, one working at a college, and one living at college. I will be back to work at some point. It's just a matter of time for us I fear.

[bronconick]

Scott Walker, other budget hawks hatch plan to force constitutional convention - StarTribune.com

Have ALEC try to push for a Constitutional Convention if you want to accelerate a breakup of America.

[PilotMan]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Scott Walker, other budget hawks hatch plan to force constitutional convention - StarTribune.com

Have ALEC try to push for a Constitutional Convention if you want to accelerate a breakup of America.

This is really back to the same ol same ol. They see the writing on the wall in November, and now are back to the games of spending is suddenly a problem again. This just gets ahead of that a bit, but it didn't matter at all the last 3 years.

[stevew]

Wife’s co teacher at old school has taken about a month and still tests positive for it. But he is at least okay. Also 28ish years old, not obese at all . He is black, and I don’t know any of his other information. But still, a month is nuts. He says he feels better lately

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by stevew

But still, a month is nuts. He says he feels better lately

No thank you. The variance in severity from case to case is still pretty remarkable to me.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

No thank you. The variance in severity from case to case is still pretty remarkable to me.

And the uneven recovery

SI

[Atocep]

Trump yesterday:

“People should go and they should vote — or do it absentee ballot,” he told reporters Friday, a day after he floated delaying the election.

Absentee ballots “are great because absentee ballots you have to go through a process to get ’em,” Trump explained. “It’s actually a great thing, absentee ballots. I’m going to be voting absentee,” Trump told reporters.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Scott Walker, other budget hawks hatch plan to force constitutional convention - StarTribune.com

Have ALEC try to push for a Constitutional Convention if you want to accelerate a breakup of America.

Everything they do makes sense when you remember that they do not consider Democratic voters legitimate.

They would rather break up the country than not be in charge of it.

[Noop]

So if America breaks up they get Texas and much of the South right? I may need to move or just go to Costa Rica.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Noop

So if America breaks up they get Texas and much of the South right? I may need to move or just go to Costa Rica.

I don't really see how it works because the cities are blue even in the red states.

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Trump approval creeping back up on 538.

We may not have immunity to the virus, but we seem to be getting immunity to caring about Trump's mishandling of the virus.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

This is where I have to vehemently disagree. He should have known better. Scientists and medical professionals have been trying to hammer home to limit interactions, keep distance, and to wear masks. This has been known for months. It's only through misinformation and, frankly, obstinacy that folks are saying "Nope, don't have to. Because we don't believe you; we know better."

It's a lot more complicated than this. The recommendation initially was don't wear masks before that changed. Initially they (i.e., the CDC) was initially saying much different things than they are now on the safety of schools for children, asymptomatic transmission, etc. Add in to that studies such as the 2015 New South Wales one which found cloth masks to be ineffective, or dissenting statements by relevant scientific experts such as this one , and some people see these shifts as being motivated by concerns outside the scientific sphere.

A global pandemic means uncertainty and shifting scientific consensus, but those realities also result in giving people who default to distrusting the official line concrete reasons to do so. There's a lot more than general anti-science, Flat Earth Society conspiracy-level thinking going on here.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

A global pandemic means uncertainty and shifting scientific consensus, but those realities also result in giving people who default to distrusting the official line concrete reasons to do so. There's a lot more than general anti-science, Flat Earth Society conspiracy-level thinking going on here.

...for some folks, sure. You keep leaving off that crucial qualifier when talking about the hypothetial rational non-maskers. Clearly everybody willing to instigate a public confrontation at a shopping center is not in the healthy skeptic crowd, and there's not exactly a shortage of that type.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I'll simply drop this in here for anecdotal purposes.

The trip across GA, AL, and MS (to deal with Will's belongings still at Ole Miss) was interesting.

It's about 400 miles each way, and I'm a multiple stops guy -- coffee and bathroom needs -- and with Alabama being one of the more masks-everywhere states I had my doubts about how it would go for me.

Short version: I managed to do anything I had to do, not always at the location or timing I'd have preferred but within reason, without a mask ever leaving my pocket.

Truck stops were definitely my go-to, and no matter what rules (store or government) might be in place, the max amount of masks I saw was 50%. And at least half of those were either being worn as headbands or neckguards.

The biggest hassle for me was Alabama coffee pots (unclear if that's state or store policy) and the choice of delaying til a better place OR waiting on intolerably slow lines that formed the length of one place as an employee slowly poured a cup at a time.

I went out of my way to avoid spending where feasible with any business that appeared to be voluntarily trying to impose masks on customers, but
the trip was definitely doable without ever using one.

I did purposefully avoid doing anything involving retail in Oxford, MS, knowing in advance that they have aggressive city rules in place. I had no issues, but kid+wife+wife friend from nearby got kicked out of a restaurant by the cops for trying to finish their meals after 10p. (local business curfew)

That one falls on the head of the restaurant though, still taking orders at 930p, serving food at 950p ... fuck the customers who foolishly thought they'd be able to finish their meals.

Mostly, I tell the story as some reassurance that -- at least in the states mentioned, traversing them without dealing with masks IS completely doable.

[JPhillips]

I don't want to fight, but I can not understand that mentality, particularly with what you've told us about your wife.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't want to fight, but I can not understand that mentality, particularly with what you've told us about your wife.

I don't consider the masks to have any meaningful value beyond easily identifying what I politely refer to as "panic junkies", the proverbial mark of sheeple (to repurpose a phrase).

Since the earliest days of the hysteria (when I wore one to change my 90+ y/o m-in-laws kitchen light bulbs ... and nearly toppled off the ladder because I couldn't fucking see out of my glasses), I've literally worn one only to accompany my wife to two crucial information sessions, aside from that there's been nothing worth voluntarily submitting to what I find to be increasingly intolerable stupidity.

I'm anti-mask to a point that's becoming a little uncomfortably close to me having a violent response to them, requiring every bit of zen I can muster to avoid being openly & aggressively hostile when I encounter them. So far I've managed to limit that to a bemused expression but I honestly could not guarantee how much longer that will last.

And I don't answer that way to fight either, swear to God I don't, I simply tried to give you an honest response with some level of detail (as opposed to a politically correct (non)response that told you nothing at all) in the best way I could come up with.

[Brian Swartz]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

...for some folks, sure. You keep leaving off that crucial qualifier when talking about the hypothetial rational non-maskers.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. You're right that there are people who are in the anti-science category, but I wrote is that it's more complicated than that - not that those people don't exist. The people I'm describing aren't hypothetical at all. Some I know personally. Others are readily available with a simple search to anyone who is looking for them.

The thing I'm objecting to here is the repeated blanket anti-science characterization made by much of the board, a characterization that is at a minimum being applied with a brush that is demonstrably too broad.