The Trump Presidency – 2016

[miked]

So you think it's cool and does not discourage voting when 600,000 have like 2 polling places because the GOP state legislatures shutter all the polling places? I'm sure in you took the rural half of GA and told them they could all vote in 1 place and may have to drive hours (when they do not get off work) and wait in 6 hour lines, you would see a massive decrease.

Closing down polling places is suppression. Closing down polling places and then removing mailboxes and shuttering post office infrastructure in August down 10 points is the definition of suppression. They even told you it was in interviews and articles.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by panerd

How it is possibly a multi-day process? Let's forget that most of the states allow mail in or absentee voting. But let's just talk a place where Kentucky where I don't think you can do either. It takes multiple days to vote?

The guy in Washington has suggested it may take years for this particular election, since ballots are destined to be stolen and all.

[Comey]

Originally Posted by panerd

How are the citizens of the twin cities going to vote by mail look what the GOP did to these post offices! Oh wait no that was those peaceful protests right?

Police: 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite Floyd rioting - StarTribune.com

Just wanted to be clear how it started. Protests were peaceful there until this dude showed up and reached his goal.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

There's a large number of people out there that work long ass days (sometimes multiple jobs), don't have a polling location close to them or their polling location has hours long lines. They get to work their day, go stand in line to vote, and still figure out dinner for their family, take the kids to practice, pick them up from school/daycare, and take care of their other daily duties.

Do people figure this out and still vote? Sure. But making voting easier definitively raises turnout so it's not that these people prefer not to vote. People that are getting their ass kicked by life are just generally less likely to justify taking the time to go stand in line.

Yeah sorry I'm not upset with this scenario. It's one day every 2 or 4 years. You could skip the practices, pick up fast food, and stand in line. No problem if you don't want to but it's not being suppressed.

And my question is why are the people getting their ass kicked in life necessarily a net gain for Democrats?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Comey

Police: 'Umbrella Man' was a white supremacist trying to incite Floyd rioting - StarTribune.com

Just wanted to be clear how it started. Protests were peaceful there until this dude showed up and reached his goal.

He burned down both post offices? Wow! Wonder if a white supremacist caused the gas stations in St. Louis to burn down and the off duty cop to be shot also.

Goes back to the fact that you and I can somehow control ourselves and not commit crimes but the people who looted and burned down post offices just couldn't stop themselves since a white supremacist broke out some windows.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Comey

The guy in Washington has suggested it may take years for this particular election, since ballots are destined to be stolen and all.

JPhillips said it takes people multiple days to vote. Not counting the votes just the act of voting.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah sorry I'm not upset with this scenario. It's one day every 2 or 4 years. You could skip the practices, pick up fast food, and stand in line. No problem if you don't want to but it's not being suppressed.

And my question is why are the people getting their ass kicked in life necessarily a net gain for Democrats?

Purposely making it more difficult to vote is suppression even if it's still possible to vote. I don't know how you don't see it that way, but it's called suppression not prevention. Just go vote anyway when you're working multiple jobs and still not making ends meet is easy for some to say but ignores the real problem. It's basically a variation of the bootstraps bullshit.

We don't really know who it's a net gain for honestly, but we have one party that encourages people to vote and one party that wants less people to vote. You may not see it as a big deal, but if your platform depends on less people voting then your platform sucks.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Purposely making it more difficult to vote is suppression even if it's still possible to vote. I don't know how you don't see it that way, but it's called suppression not prevention. Just go vote anyway when you're working multiple jobs and still not making ends meet is easy for some to say but ignores the real problem. It's basically a variation of the bootstraps bullshit.

We don't really know who it's a net gain for honestly, but we have one party that encourages people to vote and one party that wants less people to vote. You may not see it as a big deal, but if your platform depends on less people voting then your platform sucks.

Is it not suppression when the two party system doesnt allow other parties in the presidential debates? Or is that just the way things are? Not a fan of the GOP, would love to have nationwide mail in or even electronic voting. But also dont feel like this or Big bad Russia is why the Democrats are losing presidential elections. Obama was able to win in landslides... maybe it's the shitty candidates?

The bootstraps arguement is about someones lifetime. This is an event that happens once every 4 years.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

JPhillips said it takes people multiple days to vote. Not counting the votes just the act of voting.

JFC, do you not read?

Many, maybe most, I don't know the exact number, states require a separate registration that must be done weeks before the election. That, by definition, means voting requires work on multiple days.

Unlike some European countries where everyone is automatically registered and sent a voting card when you reach the legal age.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

Yeah sorry I'm not upset with this scenario. It's one day every 2 or 4 years. You could skip the practices, pick up fast food, and stand in line. No problem if you don't want to but it's not being suppressed.

And my question is why are the people getting their ass kicked in life necessarily a net gain for Democrats?

You not caring about voter suppression doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'm happy to concede the point that you don't care.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

JFC, do you not read?

Many, maybe most, I don't know the exact number, states require a separate registration that must be done weeks before the election. That, by definition, means voting requires work on multiple days.

Unlike some European countries where everyone is automatically registered and sent a voting card when you reach the legal age.

And why must something that is so simple for me and probably for you have to definitely be so foreboding to someone else? Maybe as I have said they just dont give a shit about voting? Not a bad person but dont think Trump or Biden effects their lives at all. It is not hard to register to vote to claim it is for minorities is subtle racism IMO. I can do it but you are less than me so it must be a huge chore for you.

[tarcone]

No way Trump loses. Biden is all about what could be and Trump is about what is.

This is ridiculous. Jimmy Carter? Oh my.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

You not caring about voter suppression doesn't mean it isn't happening. I'm happy to concede the point that you don't care.

Not everyone has time in their day to post 2000 times in the Trump thread I agree but they probably have time to fill out a voter registration card. How condescending are you? People lower than you are just incapable of putting together a day to register and a day to vote? Subtle racism on your part?

[tarcone]

And lets throw out Blpow job guy. Thee goes your Epstein arguement.

[NobodyHere]

MyPillow CEO Lindell Says White House Asked Him To Look For ‘Cures’ For Covid-19

Somehow this is not a parody headline.


And just for kicks:

[RainMaker]

Probably because you don't live in an area where it requires 5 hours in line to vote. Or part of a demographic being purged from the voting rolls.

Do you really think voter suppression is not a thing? Republicans go on the record saying it is part of their strategy to winning. But maybe you know more than them.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by panerd

Not everyone has time in their day to post 2000 times in the Trump thread I agree but they probably have time to fill out a voter registration card. How condescending are you? People lower than you are just incapable of putting together a day to register and a day to vote? Subtle racism on your part?

No, complete ignorance on yours, sadly.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Probably because you don't live in an area where it requires 5 hours in line to vote. Or part of a demographic being purged from the voting rolls.

Do you really think voter suppression is not a thing? Republicans go on the record saying it is part of their strategy to winning. But maybe you know more than them.

I'm stuck on the 2 day thing honestly. So I register in let's say August or September and this is a long drawn out multi hour process? No some people just dont care or want to vote. They arent Democrats dying to vote. Where are the 5 hour lines specifically because I will offer some solutions if you give me a city.

How long did it take you to register to vote? How long does it take you to vote?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Radii

No, complete ignorance on yours, sadly.

Ignorance is claiming registering to vote is this big chore that people really want to do but just cant do. I saw 60 Mizzou football players did it in one day...

Missouri football players register to vote after leading march

[JPhillips]

That must mean John Lewis was a racist. Same for Obama, too. It's all about race because that's the easiest way to target Dem voters. What other group can you define that's 90% likely to vote Dem? And it just so happens that decades of housing policy has also made it pretty easy to find almost all-black neighborhoods and voting precincts. You can't target individual voters spaced around the state, but you can target all the people that live in neighborhood X.

It's like stealing a car. Everything we do, from rolling up the windows, to locking the doors, to parking in a garage, to using a car alarm, etc. don't keep people from being able to steal your car. Each thing, though, makes it more difficult and time consuming, so with each protective measure some people decide not to bother. That's voter suppression. It won't stop somebody from voting, but each hurdle means some number of people won't bother. Put up enough hurdles and you might swing a close election.

It is pretty simple for me, although it could be much easier even in NY. But that's because I'm not being targeted. Most importantly, I live in NY and the state government isn't running supression efforts. But if they were, my demographic points to me being more likely to vote GOP.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by panerd

Ignorance is claiming registering to vote is this big chore that people really want to do but just cant do. I saw 60 Mizzou football players did it in one day...

Missouri football players register to vote after leading march

When did I say can't?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm stuck on the 2 day thing honestly. So I register in let's say August or September and this is a long drawn out multi hour process? No some people just dont care or want to vote. They arent Democrats dying to vote. Where are the 5 hour lines specifically because I will offer some solutions if you give me a city.

How long did it take you to register to vote? How long does it take you to vote?

Atlanta had 5 hour waits. Milwaukee had 2 hour waits on average.

In Georgia, they added an exact match law before a Governor race that would see a lot of new voters being added. This would put your registration in pending status if you added an extra character or misplaced a hyphen in your address. Even stuff like typing Avenue when it's listed as Ave on your license would flag it.

It doesn't take me long to register or vote. But I'm in a state (and nice neighborhood) that isn't trying to suppress it at this time.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by panerd

Ignorance is claiming registering to vote is this big chore that people really want to do but just cant do. I saw 60 Mizzou football players did it in one day...

Missouri football players register to vote after leading march

Seventh Circuit Hears Oral Arguments in Wisconsin Voter ID Case | American Civil Liberties Union

the ACLU presented evidence showing that hundreds of thousands of Wisconsin voters lacked ID; that African-American and Latino voters, who have been subjected to historical and continuing segregation and discrimination in Wisconsin, were far more likely to lack ID and the documents needed to get ID than whites; that there are significant burdens imposed on voters trying to get ID; and that the government lacks strong enough reason to impose these burdens.

Another voter, Eddie Lee Holloway Jr., was unable to get ID because his birth certificate read "Eddie Junior Holloway" instead of "Eddie Lee Holloway Junior."

Googling for more:

A Black Man Brought 3 Forms of ID to the Polls in Wisconsin. He Still Couldn’t Vote. | The Nation

He brought his expired Illinois photo ID, birth certificate, and Social Security card to get a photo ID for voting, but the DMV in Milwaukee rejected his application because the name on his birth certificate read “Eddie Junior Holloway,” the result of a clerical error when it was issued.

Holloway, who worked as a cook in Illinois but is now unemployed and disabled, living with his family in Milwaukee, got a ride downtown to the Vital Records System to try to fix his birth certificate. Vital Records said it would cost between $400 and $600, which Holloway could not afford.

The article goes on to document 7 total steps the man took to try to get a voter ID without success.

this is the purpose of voter id laws in america

It's not that people are incompetant or lazy, there are ACTIVE EFFORTS TO MAKE IT HARDER TO VOTE. These things get combined with the reduction of voting stations, purging of voter rolls and countless other things designed to require active monitoring and active effort far above and beyond anything most of us have to do, and the active intent is to make it harder people (that just happen to be predominantly non-white) to vote.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Atlanta had 5 hour waits. Milwaukee had 2 hour waits on average.

In Georgia, they added an exact match law before a Governor race that would see a lot of new voters being added. This would put your registration in pending status if you added an extra character or misplaced a hyphen in your address. Even stuff like typing Avenue when it's listed as Ave on your license would flag it.

It doesn't take me long to register or vote. But I'm in a state (and nice neighborhood) that isn't trying to suppress it at this time.

Solved the 5 hour wait...

Absentee ballots | Georgia voters can apply now | 11alive.com

Solved the 2 hour wait...

I want to vote absentee | Wisconsin Elections Commission

But I guess this is too much to ask right? Or what is the next excuse?

[RainMaker]

My favorite thing is when people pretend something isn't happening despite the people doing it admitting to it.

Who are you arguing with panerd? They literally admit what they are trying to do here.

Trump adviser tells Wisconsin Republicans party suppresses votes - Chicago Tribune

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

But are they putting the machines/mail boxes back? Or they just sitting on the damage they already have done? I am not seeing confirmation the machines have been put back in place.

I'm going with the highest voted reddit answer in the thread about this: "DeJoy: Okay, okay I'll stop! Now that I'm already done..."

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

When did I say can't?

You didn't. The people not as capable as you have this huge process to register which you have yet to explain why it is hard. And then I was asking Rainmaker because most states allow mail in which avoids the 5 hour lines and the people who work 3 jobs from even having to vote on election day. Still trying to figure out what is difficult about registering to vote and voting.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

I hope the anti-conservative arguments you claim to make on conservative leaning boards aren't as dumb as the anti-liberal arguments you make here.

SI

[Radii]

hxxp://www.kqed.org/lowdown/14543/how-to-navigate-americas-perplexing-patchwork-of-voting-laws


Portions of the voting rights act were scaled back in 2013 and 16 states with Republican led legislatures decided to make it harder to either register to vote or to actually vote.

North Carolina's 2013 voter ID law was recently struck down by a federal appeals court, which found that the law was intentionally aimed at the black vote. Two separate court rulings this summer scaled back new voting restrictions in Texas and Wisconsin.

Some of the ones that were the most obvious (including the above one in Wisconsin that was used for the primaries before being relaxed for the presidential election) were struck down for intentionally targeting black voters. That is to say - the supreme court of the united states of america stated that at least in some cases - laws were being intentionally enacted to make it harder for black people to vote. Something tells me that extremely similar laws just slightly more clever in their racist goals may actually have that effect.

In one recent study, political scientists at the University of California, San Diego compared voter turnout from 2008 to 2012 in states that did and did not implement strict voter ID laws. In states that began enforcing these laws, voter participation decreased markedly, particularly among blacks, Hispanics and mixed-race groups.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

My favorite thing is when people pretend something isn't happening despite the people doing it admitting to it.

Who are you arguing with panerd? They literally admit what they are trying to do here.

Trump adviser tells Wisconsin Republicans party suppresses votes - Chicago Tribune

I'm arguing with the idea that it is hard to vote in this country.

[tarcone]

If Biden goes globalism, which he is, he loses.

This country is way to the nationalistic side. Nationalism before all.

Trump wins if Biden goes that strategy.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm arguing with the idea that it is hard to vote in this country.

And both of us are throwing countless sources at you showing that the GOP is intentionally trying to make it harder to vote, and is doing so successfully. So WHY are you still arguing is probably the better question.

The supreme court has agreed in the more blatant cases, the GOP has openly admitted it multiple times in multiple forums, numerous studies show the impact of it. So, what's really going on, hmm?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm arguing with the idea that it is hard to vote in this country.

It is harder to vote for some people. Also harder to register for some people.

If you provide an option for in-person voting, it should be equal for everyone. One group shouldn't vote in 10 minutes while others wait 5 hours. It's ridiculous to argue that they should have anticipated a 5 hour wait and ordered a mail-in ballot a month or so earlier.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm arguing with the idea that it is hard to vote in this country.

Why is one party trying so hard and admitting to these tactics if it doesn't work? Seems like a huge waste of time from people who have spent their lives in this field.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Radii

hxxp://www.kqed.org/lowdown/14543/how-to-navigate-americas-perplexing-patchwork-of-voting-laws


Portions of the voting rights act were scaled back in 2013 and 16 states with Republican led legislatures decided to make it harder to either register to vote or to actually vote.




Some of the ones that were the most obvious (including the above one in Wisconsin that was used for the primaries before being relaxed for the presidential election) were struck down for intentionally targeting black voters. That is to say - the supreme court of the united states of america stated that at least in some cases - laws were being intentionally enacted to make it harder for black people to vote. Something tells me that extremely similar laws just slightly more clever in their racist goals may actually have that effect.

But it's not condescending and racist to continue to use stuff like Wisconsin as your focal point of your argument when you can register any day of the week and can vote absentee for any reason? Everyone in Wisconsin can vote with a short trip to a multitude of agencies to register at any point and then by requesting an absentee ballot and sending it in or god forbid taking it in. The long waits are just red herrings they don't effect voting this way at all.

[Radii]

Listen, just tell us you're a racist so we can stop arguing. We all know it. Why the charade?

[panerd]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It is harder to vote for some people. Also harder to register for some people.

If you provide an option for in-person voting, it should be equal for everyone. One group shouldn't vote in 10 minutes while others wait 5 hours. It's ridiculous to argue that they should have anticipated a 5 hour wait and ordered a mail-in ballot a month or so earlier.

So now it's not the 5 hour wait but something else. Of course...

[panerd]

Originally Posted by Radii

Listen, just tell us you're a racist so we can stop arguing. We all know it. Why the charade?

OMG!!! He disagrees with the echo chamber. RACIST!!!!!!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

I'm arguing with the idea that it is hard to vote in this country.

Then why does the right continually engage in efforts to make it more difficult? If it doesn't work why do it?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by panerd

So now it's not the 5 hour wait but something else. Of course...

The 5 hour wait is absolutely a form of suppression. How do you see some people voting in 10 minutes in person and others waiting 5 hours to vote in person and call that fair?

[thesloppy]

The balloting/election stuff is certainly relevant but it shouldn't be ignored that the USPS is also very near literal financial collapse & the recent changes that were put in place both limited their income & explicitly delayed the sorting and delivery of first class mail.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Then why does the right continually engage in efforts to make it more difficult? If it doesn't work why do it?

You see, they just haven't figured out over the last 150 years that voter suppression doesn't exist in this country.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by tarcone

If Biden goes globalism, which he is, he loses.

This country is way to the nationalistic side. Nationalism before all.

Trump wins if Biden goes that strategy.

Polling has shown a continued rise in support for immigration and free trade over the Trump years. Even things like working with allies can be seen at higher levels than in 2016.

[JPhillips]

In the NC case Radii mentioned the court said the GOP was targeting African-American voters, "with almost surgical precision."

[panerd]

.

[thesloppy]

Originally Posted by panerd

And why must something that is so simple for me and probably for you have to definitely be so foreboding to someone else? Maybe as I have said they just dont give a shit about voting? Not a bad person but dont think Trump or Biden effects their lives at all. It is not hard to register to vote to claim it is for minorities is subtle racism IMO. I can do it but you are less than me so it must be a huge chore for you.

Originally Posted by panerd

Not everyone has time in their day to post 2000 times in the Trump thread I agree but they probably have time to fill out a voter registration card. How condescending are you? People lower than you are just incapable of putting together a day to register and a day to vote? Subtle racism on your part?

Ummm?

[sterlingice]

2020 brings us this headline, which will barely even register as only like the 237th most crazy thing to happen this year:

Trump says "we'll look at" treating COVID with an untested, toxic plant extract touted by MyPillow CEO

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-o...t-toxic-plant/

SI

[panerd]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

Ummm?

Yep. Why I deleted it. Also why I am calling it a night.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Radii

Listen, just tell us you're a racist so we can stop arguing. We all know it. Why the charade?

Yup.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Radii

Listen, just tell us you're a racist so we can stop arguing. We all know it. Why the charade?

I think it is time for everyone to retreat to their corners....